221 réponses à ce sujet

[Taboo]

maaaze wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

maaaze wrote...

for the last time ...the crucible lifts him up...not the catalyst!

why is that so hard to understand?

So the Crucible (that isn't even physically touching the Citadel, mind you) is what lifts him up to the Catalyst's room?

wat

that isn't even physically touching the Citadel, mind you

WHAT????

okay...you clearly were doing something else when you played that game...because you keep making stuff up.

the arms of the crucible are clearly stretching and the crucible docks...it even makes aloud PHUM [00:42 sec.] noise.

It interacts with the citadel...it is common sense that it activates the lift by touch....

Re-read what he typed please.

Try again.

[ZLurps]

CINCTuchanka wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I won't lie. The sexual nature of the scene reminded me of a discussion of 2001 I once had.

Kubrick made the space stations look that way intentionally as to inspire those thoughts.

All I see is a giant phallus docking at port and then firing a different colored beam when tickled enough.

And here I thought that the Citadel was the phallus.  I guess one could construe it to be something else.  And the result...my god...

This means that in synthesis Shepard is spreading his space-seed to the entire galaxy to make them cyborgs.

Indeed, the moral of the story I guess is that raping starbrat is ok, because it secretly wants it anyway. It was just playing hard to get or didn't understood what's the best for it.

Seeds are mentioned in Walter's infamous notes btw.

[Ieldra]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

dorktainian wrote...
and here i thought he just passed out......

He did just pass out.

The question is: why did the writers make him pass out? Why did they, without any need, reduce Shepard's agency to zero at this point? Why didn't Shepard reach the console and press the button that would lift him up before he collapsed? You can be sure this wasn't just done on a whim.

The point of Shepard passing out, is to go somewhere where no one has ever gone before, and witness something that only he would see before his death. At least, if it's not in Shepard head. That or Shepard is taken somewhere where he's going to be hooked up by Keepers, so he came make choices with the Catalyst.

Don't like the idea of Shepard talking to a Godish character in a Heaven environment? Everyone's a critic.

Yes, if that means that all solutions are handed down from that character, I do indeed hate it. I am not criticizing as a critic - in that case I'd say this scene makes ME3's story a bad story. I just don't care for the message that scene sends. At all.

Yet again, my personal interpretation is different. But the fact that the symbolism even exists, that the interpretation is possible that the solutions are handed down from on high, that I find very annoying.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 24 juillet 2012 - 08:44 .

[legion999]

o Ventus wrote...

legion999 wrote...

Wait I thought it was just a power source?

It's very obviously a microphone. I mean, haven't you ever taken a look at it from cutscene view?

So we can beat Cerberus in the battle of the bands!
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[CINCTuchanka]

Ieldra2 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

dorktainian wrote...
and here i thought he just passed out......

He did just pass out.

The question is: why did the writers make him pass out? Why did they, without any need, reduce Shepard's agency to zero at this point? Why didn't Shepard reach the console and press the button that would lift him up before he collapsed? You can be sure this wasn't just done on a whim.

The point of Shepard passing out, is to go somewhere where no one has ever gone before, and witness something that only he would see before his death. At least, if it's not in Shepard head. That or Shepard is taken somewhere where he's going to be hooked up by Keepers, so he came make choices with the Catalyst.

Don't like the idea of Shepard talking to a Godish character in a Heaven environment? Everyone's a critic.

Yes, if that means that all solutions are handed down from that character, I do indeed hate it. I am not criticizing as a critic - in that case I'd say this scene makes ME3's story a bad story. I just don't care for the message that scene sends. At all.

Out of curiousity, if you don't like solutions being handed to you by a godlike entity then why do you have a pro-Synthesis banner?   Synthesis is inarguably an option provided to you by the Catalyst,  

[RavenEyry]

CINCTuchanka wrote...
Out of curiousity, if you don't like solutions being handed to you by a godlike entity then why do you have a pro-Synthesis banner?   Synthesis is inarguably an option provided to you by the Catalyst,  

Everything but refuse is offered by the catalyst. Mosst people still choose SOMETHING, however much they hate the choices.

[Taboo]

RavenEyry wrote...

CINCTuchanka wrote...
Out of curiousity, if you don't like solutions being handed to you by a godlike entity then why do you have a pro-Synthesis banner?   Synthesis is inarguably an option provided to you by the Catalyst,  

Everything but refuse is offered by the catalyst. Mosst people still choose SOMETHING, however much they hate the choices.

And my Shepard laughed all the way to the hospital.

While coughing up blood.

ART.

[Ieldra]

CINCTuchanka wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

dorktainian wrote...
and here i thought he just passed out......

He did just pass out.

The question is: why did the writers make him pass out? Why did they, without any need, reduce Shepard's agency to zero at this point? Why didn't Shepard reach the console and press the button that would lift him up before he collapsed? You can be sure this wasn't just done on a whim.

The point of Shepard passing out, is to go somewhere where no one has ever gone before, and witness something that only he would see before his death. At least, if it's not in Shepard head. That or Shepard is taken somewhere where he's going to be hooked up by Keepers, so he came make choices with the Catalyst.

Don't like the idea of Shepard talking to a Godish character in a Heaven environment? Everyone's a critic.

Yes, if that means that all solutions are handed down from that character, I do indeed hate it. I am not criticizing as a critic - in that case I'd say this scene makes ME3's story a bad story. I just don't care for the message that scene sends. At all.

Out of curiousity, if you don't like solutions being handed to you by a godlike entity then why do you have a pro-Synthesis banner?   Synthesis is inarguably an option provided to you by the Catalyst, 

Because the merits of the solutions stand on their own. They are independent from who presents them to me. I like Synthesis as an option and I interpret it to originate with the Crucible. I don't buy into the symbolism, I just notice it.

[TMA LIVE]

Ieldra2 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

dorktainian wrote...
and here i thought he just passed out......

He did just pass out.

The question is: why did the writers make him pass out? Why did they, without any need, reduce Shepard's agency to zero at this point? Why didn't Shepard reach the console and press the button that would lift him up before he collapsed? You can be sure this wasn't just done on a whim.

The point of Shepard passing out, is to go somewhere where no one has ever gone before, and witness something that only he would see before his death. At least, if it's not in Shepard head. That or Shepard is taken somewhere where he's going to be hooked up by Keepers, so he came make choices with the Catalyst.

Don't like the idea of Shepard talking to a Godish character in a Heaven environment? Everyone's a critic.

Yes, if that means that all solutions are handed down from that character, I do indeed hate it. I am not criticizing as a critic - in that case I'd say this scene makes ME3's story a bad story. I just don't care for the message that scene sends. At all.

Yet again, my personal interpretation is different. But the fact that the symbolism even exists, that it is *possible* to interpret the scene this way, that I find offensive.

Well, what I mean is everyone has a problem with something, and something that the next person probably doesn't have a problem with. Example, I like the whole "Going to heaven and speaking to the dead" aspect of it. Everyone's a critic is more of a joke.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Ieldra2 wrote...

I don't think this has been discussed before, and only now do I feel detached enough to discuss it without going on an incoherent rant.

Shepard's collapse at the control panel on the Citadel is, by a very big margin, my most hated moment in the game. And here is why: this moment not only symbolizes that Shepard can't succeed without help, no, combined with the elevator lift initiated by the Catalyst it symbolizes that he needs help by a god-like presence. I am not averse to Shepard needing help. I would have accepted help by any human, turian, geth, asari etc.. etc..., even the Illusive Man. But I absolutely *hate* the suggestion that "divine" help is needed to enact a solution.

Of course I can interpret the Catalyst in a different way, and I do. I refuse to grant it the authority the symbolism suggests, as I would never grant anyone or anything such authority, but nonetheless the symbolism is there and to me it was pretty blatant. If anything, this moment alone came close to make Mass Effect - the whole trilogy - "not my story".

I would like to see how others think about this moment. Please note that this has absolutely nothing to do with the Catalyst's reasoning and the options it presents, which I can accept.

What is even worse, is that the brat not only symbolizes a god-like authority, it feels it has the right to act like one for the last billion years by violating the right of self-determination in the most horrific ways. And now that god grants you three wishes. And if you do not want it then you'll be banished to hell.

[D24O]

RavenEyry wrote...

CINCTuchanka wrote...
Out of curiousity, if you don't like solutions being handed to you by a godlike entity then why do you have a pro-Synthesis banner?   Synthesis is inarguably an option provided to you by the Catalyst,  

Everything but refuse is offered by the catalyst. Mosst people still choose SOMETHING, however much they hate the choices.

And you can just interpert that Shepard just says "F*** the Catalyst."

[Taboo]

Ieldra...

Green is a neutral color...

That should give you an indication of what it is and how it is represented. It IS provided as the best solution to the hypothetical problem we face BY the originator of this mess.

[Mazebook]

The Angry One wrote...

maaaze wrote...

i am astonished how much you missed in this game.
How do you know that the Citadel is the Catalyst?...yes through the Prothean A.I. !...and how does it know that?...through the designers.

The different designers decided at one point that the Citadel was the necessery key component.

No. Vendetta says the Protheans determined this on their own. Guess what? The Protheans weren't the designers.

why the beam is set up that way...who knows...why should I care? Why is the human reaper hanging on four tubes...why not 12...why aren´t there any turrets...why does the plattform even takes them there...

It's an important element that's never answered satisfactorily.

why does saren try to strangle Shepard instead of shooting him/her...

Because Saren sees potential in Shepard and would rather convince them of the truth as he sees it.
Did you not pay attention to anything Saren says?

No. Vendetta says the Protheans determined this on their own. Guess what? The Protheans weren't the designers. 

okay... i am giving up on you again because you making stuff up that is just not true...and i am sick and tiered of your baseless statement that are nowhere represented in the game.

here :
"it is difficult to say when...at some point Crucible plans where adapted to include the catalyst..."

[somewhere at the 30 seconds mark]

[CINCTuchanka]

RavenEyry wrote...

CINCTuchanka wrote...
Out of curiousity, if you don't like solutions being handed to you by a godlike entity then why do you have a pro-Synthesis banner?   Synthesis is inarguably an option provided to you by the Catalyst,  

Everything but refuse is offered by the catalyst. Mosst people still choose SOMETHING, however much they hate the choices.

Not necessarily.  Destroy and Control are intrinsic to the design of the Crucible (hence why the Reaper Heart and Reaper Brain change its function at different EMS levels).  The Catalyst doesn't like these options but is more or less forced to obey your choice because of some function of the Crucible.  I suppose you could say that because the Catalyst is still necessary for the use of the Crucible and because the Catalyst provides exposition that he "hands" them to the player, but I think this point is arguable.  Both those decisions are at odds with the Catalyst's desires, and either kill or replace it.

Synthesis, however, absolutely stems from the Catalyst. It is the Catalyst's "ideal solution."  TIM thought up  Control, Anderson (and everyone else) wanted to Destroy, but Synthesis as an idea is solely the construct of the Catalyst.  In that sense, I would say that Synthesis is the only ending that is 100% handed to you by the Catalyst.  

I get the point that in-game the Catalyst gives you the options, but Synthesis is ITS option.

[Mazebook]

Taboo-XX wrote...

maaaze wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

maaaze wrote...

for the last time ...the crucible lifts him up...not the catalyst!

why is that so hard to understand?

So the Crucible (that isn't even physically touching the Citadel, mind you) is what lifts him up to the Catalyst's room?

wat

that isn't even physically touching the Citadel, mind you

WHAT????

okay...you clearly were doing something else when you played that game...because you keep making stuff up.

the arms of the crucible are clearly stretching and the crucible docks...it even makes aloud PHUM [00:42 sec.] noise.

It interacts with the citadel...it is common sense that it activates the lift by touch....

Re-read what he typed please.

Try again.

I don´t get it.

what does wat mean?

i thought he meant what.

Modifié par maaaze, 24 juillet 2012 - 08:50 .

[The Angry One]

maaaze wrote...

okay... i am giving up on you again because you making stuff up that is just not true...and i am sick and tiered of your baseless statement that are nowhere represented in the game.

Yeah, look who's talking.

here :
"it is difficult to say when...at some point Crucible plans where adapted to include the catalyst..."

[somewhere at the 30 seconds mark]

And the Protheans determined that this would be the Citadel, since the plans didn't tell them and they didn't tell us.

Modifié par The Angry One, 24 juillet 2012 - 08:49 .

[RavenEyry]

maaaze wrote...

okay... i am giving up on you again because you making stuff up that is just not true...and i am sick and tiered of your baseless statement that are nowhere represented in the game.

Funny, this argument began when you made a baseless statement that is nowhere referred to in the game.

Then finished up with a comment impling anyone who disagrees with you is stupid.

[Ieldra]

TMA LIVE wrote...
Well, what I mean is everyone has a problem with something, and something that the next person probably doesn't have a problem with. Example, I like the whole "Going to heaven and speaking to the dead" aspect of it. Everyone's a critic is more of a joke.

I don't mind going to the "otherworld". As long as I can do it on my own or at the very least without "supernatural" help.

BTW, the "talking to the dead" aspect is interesting, especially given that the Catalyst describes itself as embodying the collective intelligence of all Reapers.

[Mazebook]

The Angry One wrote...

maaaze wrote...

okay... i am giving up on you again because you making stuff up that is just not true...and i am sick and tiered of your baseless statement that are nowhere represented in the game.

Yeah, look who's talking.

here :
"it is difficult to say when...at some point Crucible plans where adapted to include the catalyst..."

[somewhere at the 30 seconds mark]

And the Protheans determined that this would be the Citadel, since the plans didn't tell them and they didn't tell us.

ARRRRG.

stop lying!

watch the clip!...

[CINCTuchanka]

Ieldra2 wrote...

CINCTuchanka wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

dorktainian wrote...
and here i thought he just passed out......

He did just pass out.

The question is: why did the writers make him pass out? Why did they, without any need, reduce Shepard's agency to zero at this point? Why didn't Shepard reach the console and press the button that would lift him up before he collapsed? You can be sure this wasn't just done on a whim.

The point of Shepard passing out, is to go somewhere where no one has ever gone before, and witness something that only he would see before his death. At least, if it's not in Shepard head. That or Shepard is taken somewhere where he's going to be hooked up by Keepers, so he came make choices with the Catalyst.

Don't like the idea of Shepard talking to a Godish character in a Heaven environment? Everyone's a critic.

Yes, if that means that all solutions are handed down from that character, I do indeed hate it. I am not criticizing as a critic - in that case I'd say this scene makes ME3's story a bad story. I just don't care for the message that scene sends. At all.

Out of curiousity, if you don't like solutions being handed to you by a godlike entity then why do you have a pro-Synthesis banner?   Synthesis is inarguably an option provided to you by the Catalyst, 

Because the merits of the solutions stand on their own. They are independent from who presents them to me. I like Synthesis as an option and I interpret it to originate with the Crucible. I don't buy into the symbolism, I just notice it.

That makes sense, logically.  Sort of how Paragon players can still choose Control regardless of whether they agree with TIM. 

I suppose I just don't interpret Synthesis as originating from the Crucible itself, hence our disagreement.

[o Ventus]

maaaze wrote...

that isn't even physically touching the Citadel, mind you

WHAT????

okay...you clearly were doing something else when you played that game...because you keep making stuff up.

the arms of the crucible are clearly stretching and the crucible docks...it even makes aloud PHUM [00:42 sec.] noise.

It interacts with the citadel...it is common sense that it activates the lift by touch....

The only part of the Crucible that touches the Citadel at all are the docking arms. The large semi-sphere, the shaft, literally no other part of the Crucible touches or attaches to the Citadel.

Even if they did, what the f**k is giving you the indication that the Crucible (Which the elevator is not attached to) is lifting Shepard?

[Tealjaker94]

@maaaze You're one to complain about baseless assumptions as you've made quite a few. "The crucible(which is nothing more than a power source), was designed to take Shepard from a certain spot in a certain room(not even the main control room) to a place no organic has ever been to talk to the catalyst who no one knows about."

[The Angry One]

maaaze wrote...

ARRRRG.

stop lying!

watch the clip!...

Don't demand people stop doing something you do constantly.

[RavenEyry]

maaaze wrote...

ARRRRG.

stop lying!

watch the clip!...

"ARRRRG! I never make mistakes! Anyone who says otherwise must be lying."

[CINCTuchanka]

o Ventus wrote...

maaaze wrote...

that isn't even physically touching the Citadel, mind you

WHAT????

okay...you clearly were doing something else when you played that game...because you keep making stuff up.

the arms of the crucible are clearly stretching and the crucible docks...it even makes aloud PHUM [00:42 sec.] noise.

It interacts with the citadel...it is common sense that it activates the lift by touch....

The only part of the Crucible that touches the Citadel at all are the docking arms. The large semi-sphere, the shaft, literally no other part of the Crucible touches or attaches to the Citadel.

Even if they did, what the f**k is giving you the indication that the Crucible (Which the elevator is not attached to) is lifting Shepard?

Don't you believe that just as Synthesis is a function of the Crucible, so is the lifting of the platform?  I always interpreted as the Crucible rewriting the Catalyst and more or less "forcing" it to lift Shepard up.  

At the very least, the Crucible makes it so that the Catalyst cant exercise its own will in creating a new solution.  The Crucible makes a new solution necessary in its "mind."  Hence the Crucible forces the Catalyst to life you up.  It needs someone else to choose.  Could've been TIM or Anderson on that lift for all it cared.