221 réponses à ce sujet

[ld1449]

Symbolism.

Symbolism can be the single most brilliant thing available to a writer, and it can also be the biggest excuse for crap writing available anywhere.

Why?

Because symbolism is malleable. Anyone can look at a symbol and see what they want to see. Make it to what they envision as acceptable if they look at it hard enough.

The star child is just a case of bad writing. But I imagine that the author, at the eleventh hour, desperate and tired to finish just decided to make the ending...symbolic, much to our woe.

The avatar looking like a child could be interpreted as symbolic of "origin" It is the "origin" of the reapers, as a child it is the origin of all people. Because we all started out as children.

Seeing him as this abstract concept, makes it more acceptable to the viewer. Also seeing it as a "youth" its own flawed logic is justified. Because children have flawed logic before they gain true understanding.

"I'm right because I'm right" is something I can see a 5 year old saying stomping his foot and looking petulant.

The destruction of the Mass Relays, the remains of Reaper tech. Could be seen as a "New Begining."

Along with Joker and Edi's "Adam and Eve" thing on the tree planet.

With symbolism you can take almost any BAD ending and turn it into something you can at least look at without cringing. Which is basically what most writers do when they come under harsh criticism. "Its symbolic"

(You found symbolism which you didn't like but the point still stands OP)

which is why I call it "The cop-out card"

The problem with the starchild symbolism is that its not as symbolism should be portrayed. It should be subtle. Almost subliminal. More like a cherry over a delicious cheescake. Here there's nothing but the cherry, with maybe some whipped cream next to it.

This symbolism is "IN YO FACE" Pushing it right up there until it blocks out everything else and the CONCRETE part of the story the PLOT is thrown to the wayside for the ABSTRACT.

And that's mainly where the Starchild fails in my eyes its a literary copout, an obvious one that was done by someone at the end of their rope and now they're trying to sell it as art.

So yeah. Symbols to me are nothing more than cheap excuses in most cases, unless as I said its something you can look at as a BONUS, not something that carries the whole story/event on its own.

[What a Succulent Ass]

andy69156915 wrote...

I'm starting to see exactly why this place has such a bad reputation on the rest of the internet.

Yo, there are not nearly enough sweat and alien vagina and blue babies threads to quite justify this statement. I can bump some, though.

[ld1449]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Tealjaker94 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

ArikadOdakirA wrote...

maaaze wrote...

you´re intelligents is ether paralysed by emotional            disappointment  or you are just not that smart to begin with. 

Wow.

LOL

Hahahahaha. This guy is hilarious.

This is the  "you don't get it, so I'm taking my toys and leaving" arguement? SO BE IT!

Its Maaze, what else do you expect.

[Mazebook]

ld1449 wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

Tealjaker94 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

ArikadOdakirA wrote...

maaaze wrote...

you´re intelligents is ether paralysed by emotional            disappointment  or you are just not that smart to begin with. 

Wow.

LOL

Hahahahaha. This guy is hilarious.

This is the  "you don't get it, so I'm taking my toys and leaving" arguement? SO BE IT!

Its Maaze, what else do you expect.

please don´t take my statemantes out of context...this fox news mentalty is rather disturbing
"
        [...]   and yes, if you still think the ending makes no sense...you´re intelligents is ether paralysed by emotional disappointment  or you are just not that smart to begin with. "

[Bill Casey]

* your
* intelligence

The reasons didn't matter. They quoted the appropriate context; namely, that you are having difficulty constructing a sentence to call somebody else stupid...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 24 juillet 2012 - 11:28 .

[ZLurps]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

ZLurps wrote...

Applepie_Svk wrote...

ZLurps wrote...


Well, we won't get The Real Ending DLC but...

Have you ever concidered possibility, that they did it on purpose?

Actualy they have never planning the EC, it was reason why old endings were so empty...

I know they didn't plan EC, Walters visioned galactic dark age (Final Hours), practically everybody on Citadel dead (Twitter).

What I meant is the bigger picture.

Slash and burn? I didn't do the Final Hours thing, but I've read about it. I saw the Mac Walters interview.

My comment: If they wanted to end the series, fine. All I have to say is they took the coward's way out, then. A bunch of ****ing wusses. They couldn't give us a decent ending,  and then just say that's it on the series we're moving on. No, they had to trash the ****ing thing and ****** on every single person who sunk hundreds of hours into it.

If that's what they did, and it seems like that's exactly what they did, I hope it comes back to bite the company in the ass in spades.

I am looking forward to seeing what 343 does with Halo 4.

Do you remember Walters interview before ME3 launch where he said he was tired to franchise and liked to do something else? I sort of respected him for being so honest, it's very rare at these days that publishers let their staff speak so openly, but there was also question in my mind, if he had what it takes at the first place, but I digress.

For me there are just too many odd pieces out there that I could dismiss those for being accidents and I'm not at all convinced that ending was even supposed to make sense as "in ME universe".

I'm not sure if it is supposed to make sense at all, but what we have is something that could be seen as immature sexual symbolism, emotional sterility that Taboo pointed out earlier and sort of sado-masochistic relationship of story / player. Depending how people interpret the Crusible it could be seen as satisfying the Catalyst. etc.

I have played game where protagonist has not only died in the ending (and there's no way around it) but turned out to be used by antagonist resulting also death of every person who helped protagonist during the journey. That weren't what I expected, but in comparison, last stages of ME3 were actually a bit disturbing.

For me issue isn't Shepard dying, dark age scenario was bitter, I liked the universe, but for me the problem is how these things are delivered. I wish I could see something like an attemt to remake ending of Space Odyssey 2001 because something like that could have been done with the elements they had, but I don't see that attempt. I wish I could see deep moral pondering in choises we have, but I see just superficial attempt to look intellectual. Again, with material they had, pieces for creating such set up were there.

EDIT/ Grammar and stuff, I'm tired.

Modifié par ZLurps, 24 juillet 2012 - 11:33 .

[Mazebook]

Bill Casey wrote...

* your
* intelligence

The reason didn't matter...
They quoted the appropriate context...

no...it was implied that it refered to people who don´t like the endings...which I think is fine...nobody has to like the ending.
Still claiming the ending makes no sense is a sign of no intelligence or  a mismatched emotional justification caused by disliking the ending.

Modifié par maaaze, 24 juillet 2012 - 11:32 .

[GreyLycanTrope]

maaaze wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

* your
* intelligence

The reason didn't matter...
They quoted the appropriate context...

no...it was implied that it refered to people who don´t like the endings...which I think is fine...nobody has to like the ending.
Still claiming the ending makes no sense is a sign of no intelligence or  a mismatched emotional justification caused by disliking the ending.

Or dissatisfaction based on the lack of a coherent narrative, neglected themes, and poor idea conception/execution. But than again, I'm not a condescending tw*t what do I know?

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 24 juillet 2012 - 11:41 .

[Mazebook]

Greylycantrope wrote...

maaaze wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

* your
* intelligence

The reason didn't matter...
They quoted the appropriate context...

no...it was implied that it refered to people who don´t like the endings...which I think is fine...nobody has to like the ending.
Still claiming the ending makes no sense is a sign of no intelligence or  a mismatched emotional justification caused by disliking the ending.

Or dissatisfaction based on the lack of a coherent narrative, neglected themes, and poor idea conception/execution. But than again, I'm not a condescending tw*t what do I know?

yeah...nothing can be coherent, if you yourself make it incoherent through baseless assumptions...but fine...
from condescending tw*t to condescending tw*t...I think we both have formed an opinion on each other...

back to topic.

is there any evidence that even suggests that the catalyst controls the lift or even has the means to control it? 

Modifié par maaaze, 24 juillet 2012 - 11:51 .

[D24O]

Catalyst: I am the Catalyst.
Sheperd: I thought the Citadel was the Catalyst.
Catalyst: A simple mistake. The Citadel is part of me

Being a part of him implies control of it. It was changing as the Crucible awakens him.

[Mazebook]

D24O wrote...

Catalyst: I am the Catalyst.
Sheperd: I thought the Citadel was the Catalyst.
Catalyst: A simple mistake. The Citadel is part of me

Being a part of him implies control of it. It was changing as the Crucible awakens him.

Being part of him does not imply that he has control over it. as much you have no control over your heartbeat.

This is further disproven by 2 statement:

"you being here, the first organic ever, proves my solution won´t work anymore" this statement makes no sense if the catalyst himself brought him there.

"Why are you here ?" the catalyst himself is suprised that Shaperd did make it to the crucible...it makes no sense for him to ask him that question if he himself brought him there.

[D24O]

maaaze wrote...

Being part of him does not imply that he has control over it. as much you have no control over your heartbeat.

This is further disproven by 2 statement:

"you being here, the first organic ever, proves my solution won´t work anymore" this statement makes no sense if the catalyst himself brought him there.

"Why are you here ?" the catalyst himself is suprised that Shaperd did make it to the crucible...it makes no sense for him to ask him that question if he himself brought him there.

As to the first point, I see that as his acknowledgment that since the Organics are advancing and passing on knowledge from cycle to cycle, and also of (potentially) us being "ready" for syntheiss. After all, we are more resoursful than he gave us credit, and the reapers are apparently stagnanr. So he calls us up to negotiate. The second, he knows we're here to stop the reapers, but since he has options to give us, he doesn't know how we will do It's a preface to him presenting options.

Edit, It's all up to speculation whether the shifting Citadel was him or not, It seems logical to me that he could move it, and since we're supposadely the first organic there, it seems far fetched that the designers of that featured would've known what they're doing. 

Modifié par D24O, 25 juillet 2012 - 12:11 .

[Baa Baa]

D24O wrote...

I think you would be hard pressed to find someone who likes the fact that Shepard is rendered into a helpless, dying meatsack that can't win on the years of work he did, without some demonic entity's help.

[shepdog77]

Random Jerkface wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

I'm starting to see exactly why this place has such a bad reputation on the rest of the internet.

Yo, there are not nearly enough sweat and alien vagina and blue babies threads to quite justify this statement. I can bump some, though.

do it, i'm in the mood for some interesting reads :happy:

[Seifer006]

there's symbolism in ME3 ending? last from what I've heard in the interview from the Devleopers, they denounced it. The ending is taken at face value. even those who once held to the IT moved on.


but you'll get those who are in denial.

[Mcfly616]

Adanu wrote...

You're reading WAY too much into this.

But then, you people always do.

This lol

[Carlthestrange]

Space elevator means something?

Okay. Or... maybe its just a space elevator.

SPAAAAAACE.

[Taboo]

Carlthestrange wrote...

Space elevator means something?

Okay. Or... maybe its just a space elevator.

SPAAAAAACE.

ARRRRRRT.

[Herr Igor]

Adanu wrote...

You're reading WAY too much into this.

But then, you people always do.

And I'd say you're in desperate need of reading glasses...

[Carlthestrange]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Carlthestrange wrote...

Space elevator means something?

Okay. Or... maybe its just a space elevator.

SPAAAAAACE.

ARRRRRRT.

SPPPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACCCCEEEEEEE.

[D24O]

Carlthestrange wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

ARRRRRRT.

SPPPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACCCCEEEEEEE.

No, you're supposed to take a drink every time Taboo says that.

[Carlthestrange]

D24O wrote...

No, you're supposed to take a drink every time Taboo says that.

Heh, the quantity i've had tonight already... that'd be bad for my health.

[andy6915]

Taboo-XX wrote...
ARRRRRRT.

This remark got old before it even became a meme. The use of it is annoying at this point. It's just what people say when they don't have a single unique thought in their head that they can call their own, so they say something to fit in with the crowd. It's stupid.

[Carlthestrange]

andy69156915 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...
ARRRRRRT.

This remark got old before it even became a meme. The use of it is annoying at this point. It's just what people say when they don't have a single unique thought in their head that they can call their own, so they say something to fit in with the crowd. It's stupid.