12 réponses à ce sujet

[Dreez]

Its been asked time and time again, which is the best build
for rogues, and it all comes to down if you want to be a rogue
with Ranger-spec, a duelist or a pure dagger rogue.

The best weapons for Rogues are daggers due to their
special bonuses to backstab and crit damage. But the
problem then is that daggers gets their damage from dexterity
and not from cunning or strength.

And as a rogue, you'd really want to keep a high cunning
for that armor penetration and ability to picklock and good
at talking people into things.

Were we to take the route of longswords, we can almost entierly
ditch thinking about dexterity and focus on cunning due to
lethality which gives bonus to damage from cunning, but we would
miss out on some seriously nasty daggers,

And then we have the 2handed rogue, which is becomming more
of an alternative each day, capable of massive destruction in terms
of backstabs using a 2handed weapon. And this you're using a 2handed
weapon, you will gain some serious bonuses from a superhigh cunning.

So it seems to me, that neither of the 2 possible builds are better,
since which ever route you take, will grant you bonuses to your damage.
But the daggerbuild however, seem to be lacking cunning and thus,
you will be somewhat weaker in terms of lockpicking and conversations.

The issue at hand with Longsword-build is that the better longswords
are not accuired until late in the game, while the best daggers can
be attained almost directly, through various shops.

So let's say we're aiming to make the highest dps-rogue possible,
with maxed stealth, trapmaking, poison.  Assassin-spec.
Would we be better of going for a Dex-build using daggers, and thus,
losing out on some massive cunning.  Or would we go with Str-build
and use longswords, or possibly a 2Handed weapon?.

What are your opinions of what makes "the best rogue" ?.

[Skye Kross]

hmmm it depends on your play style
for me i always have a pair of rogues. me and Leliana
leliana = cunning bard ranger
me = str assassin duelist
so me and other physical party members get bonus from lelianas cunning through song of courage.
making the party better.
being a str rogue has its awkward moments like biiig armor heavy fatigue, but bcoz of the ingame items, you can mix and match therefore you get almost the same backstab bonuses as cunning rogues. and items that adds stamina.
sure str rogues are not the best dps but they can off tank and take the beating almost like warriors coz of armor.
IMO there are things in the game that may or may not make rogues better
1 ) suuuppahh daggers (daggers with +3 - +5 damage that sacks with both weapons, its already an anti armor weapon and a really fast one, it makes longswords, axes & maces obsolete in offhand, heck i made alistair use it until he got an uber sword but keeps it if he is the dex tank build)
2) so much items that adds cunning and so much skills that use cunning, ulitity or damage (cunning builds are off the roof without it, now its sky high)
3) backstab bonuses is the thing
4) we need combat skills for 2 handed rogue lol (its fun but not great coz of skills lacking)
5) many more
anyway, im going to say "the best rogue" is a good team player type, sure you can solo a revenant, thats coz you are too much for him. i soloed graxkahn, no traps no stealth, i didnt feel special coz he is just 1 man and my items and character skills are too much for him.
anyway, the best rogue is how good he/she contributes to the party in anyway. even with sucky items or no magic, that rogue is still there kicking junks lol

edit: typo

Modifié par Skye Kross, 19 décembre 2009 - 02:02 .

[dkjestrup]

Uhhh.... Damage for daggers comes from Cunning and Dex....



With the latest patch, you have two choices for dagger rogues, as archers are weak in comparison.



Talents:

Coup De Grace

Lethality

Momentum

Riposte

Exploit Weakness



Being the "key" talents. By getting those you'll also have Mark of Death and Dirty Fighting.



Cunning Rogues do more damage, but have a lower hit rate. Heroic Offense + Rally work great to off set this though, from your Tank and Mage. Either go Assassin Bard, for Song of Courage, or Assassin Duelist, for Dueling.



Dex Rogues do less damage, but have much much higher attack and defense.

[Bathead]

I'm looking to do an archer rogue, using DW daggers purely as self defense if need be, any suggestions/

Would Ranger be a good spec for this?

[vicariouscheese]

dkjestrup wrote...

Uhhh.... Damage for daggers comes from Cunning and Dex....

With the latest patch, you have two choices for dagger rogues, as archers are weak in comparison.

Talents:
Coup De Grace
Lethality
Momentum
Riposte
Exploit Weakness

Being the "key" talents. By getting those you'll also have Mark of Death and Dirty Fighting.

Cunning Rogues do more damage, but have a lower hit rate. Heroic Offense + Rally work great to off set this though, from your Tank and Mage. Either go Assassin Bard, for Song of Courage, or Assassin Duelist, for Dueling.

Dex Rogues do less damage, but have much much higher attack and defense.

if you pump cunning, song of courage gives higher +attack bonus than dueling, and you shouldnt be getting agro with a cunning/backstab rogue so you can argue that bard is slightly better than duelist, especially since it gives attack bonus to the rest of the party

[djfayt]

Skye Kross wrote...

hmmm it depends on your play style
for me i always have a pair of rogues. me and Leliana
leliana = cunning bard ranger
me = str assassin duelist
so me and other physical party members get bonus from lelianas cunning through song of courage.
making the party better.
being a str rogue has its awkward moments like biiig armor heavy fatigue, but bcoz of the ingame items, you can mix and match therefore you get almost the same backstab bonuses as cunning rogues. and items that adds stamina.
sure str rogues are not the best dps but they can off tank and take the beating almost like warriors coz of armor.
IMO there are things in the game that may or may not make rogues better
1 ) suuuppahh daggers (daggers with +3 - +5 damage that sacks with both weapons, its already an anti armor weapon and a really fast one, it makes longswords, axes & maces obsolete in offhand, heck i made alistair use it until he got an uber sword but keeps it if he is the dex tank build)
2) so much items that adds cunning and so much skills that use cunning, ulitity or damage (cunning builds are off the roof without it, now its sky high)
3) backstab bonuses is the thing
4) we need combat skills for 2 handed rogue lol (its fun but not great coz of skills lacking)
5) many more
anyway, im going to say "the best rogue" is a good team player type, sure you can solo a revenant, thats coz you are too much for him. i soloed graxkahn, no traps no stealth, i didnt feel special coz he is just 1 man and my items and character skills are too much for him.
anyway, the best rogue is how good he/she contributes to the party in anyway. even with sucky items or no magic, that rogue is still there kicking junks lol

edit: typo

I'm interested in the graxkahn(behold gaxraxmus? i forgot) soloing Rogue build!! Which one is that? The 2h sword backstabber?     
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Bard
:bandit:Assassin
:alien:2H Rogue 

:wizard:enchantment! Sandal is the Maker.

[MOTpoetryION]

im playing for the first time a ranger and like it with the extra meat shield .my next ill make 2 rangers. And have a total of 6 char ,thats what in talking about.

[Leo Church 13]

MOTpoetryION wrote...

im playing for the first time a ranger and like it with the extra meat shield .my next ill make 2 rangers. And have a total of 6 char ,thats what in talking about.

just as fyi for anyone who searches this, two ranger pets is not possible.

[Silvan123]

Cunning only pays off if you have lethality (which alone replaces str as dmg output),
and secondly the exploit weakness (1/3 cunning score dmg bonus).

So in general, 50dex = 25 dmg. 50cun = 25+16dmg.

This only goes for backstabs, which can be done with swords aswell.

Modifié par Silvan123, 15 janvier 2010 - 10:23 .

[dkjestrup]

vicariouscheese wrote...

dkjestrup wrote...

Uhhh.... Damage for daggers comes from Cunning and Dex....

With the latest patch, you have two choices for dagger rogues, as archers are weak in comparison.

Talents:
Coup De Grace
Lethality
Momentum
Riposte
Exploit Weakness

Being the "key" talents. By getting those you'll also have Mark of Death and Dirty Fighting.

Cunning Rogues do more damage, but have a lower hit rate. Heroic Offense + Rally work great to off set this though, from your Tank and Mage. Either go Assassin Bard, for Song of Courage, or Assassin Duelist, for Dueling.

Dex Rogues do less damage, but have much much higher attack and defense.

if you pump cunning, song of courage gives higher +attack bonus than dueling, and you shouldnt be getting agro with a cunning/backstab rogue so you can argue that bard is slightly better than duelist, especially since it gives attack bonus to the rest of the party

I didn't think the attack bonus was that great. But you won't have high cunning in the early game, or SoC, whereas Dueling is just 1 point, for a flat bonus. Late game you hit a lot anyway, when you have a tank with Rally, and Heroic Offense.

[wtbriann]

Ranged Rogues: Focus on Dexterity, Cunning, and Willpower. Best equipment to have is anything that affects (ranged) critical chance, rapid aim, and armor penetration. Also, get Bard's Dancing Shoes, best for Leliana. Best bows to equip in is the Spear-Thrower (found in the Dead Trenches off of the Forge Master Genlock mini-boss), Mage's Eye (chest in Village of Haven), or the Far Song (if you didn't save the blacksmith's daughter, Valena, during the Redcliffe Castle Quest than another blacksmith will appear and the Far Song is available for about 98 sovereigns). I recommend in keeping Leliana as a ranged character with specializations as Bard (default) and Ranger. Rangers can summon an animal that acts like an extra party member (level 1 - spider, level 2 - wolf, level 3 - bear, level 4 - all animals are upgraded).
Dual-wielding Rogues: Focus on Dexterity, Cunning, Willpower, and from time to time add points to Strenght if you are aiming to equip swords instead of daggers. Best equipment for a DW Rogue is Felon's Coat that you can purchase at Wade's Emporium, but only if you have commissioned the second set of Drakeskin Armor. If you can't afford Felon's Coat, the next best choice is Shadow of the Empire, purchased from the merchant dwarf near Dust Town. My character is also equipped with Red Jenny's Seekers . The best weapons are to wield the Rose's Thorn with the Dead Thaig Shanker (Stone Prisoner DLC) or Duncan's Dagger (Return to Ostagar DLC) or Thorn of the Dead Gods. Also, another good choice to equip along with the Rose's Thorn is the Biteback Axe, received from the body of Howe. The Veshialle or the Axe of Grey or the Axameter are also good alternative choices to choose besides the Biteback Axe. Keep the DW Rogue with specializations of Assassin and Dueler. My character is equipped with Rose's Thorn and Biteback axe, both enhanced with Grandmaster Runes. To me, these two make an extremely valuable combination.

Modifié par wtbriann, 04 février 2010 - 04:33 .

[Wicked 702]

wtbriann wrote...

Ranged Rogues: Focus on Dexterity, Cunning, and Willpower. Best equipment to have is anything that affects (ranged) critical chance, rapid aim, and armor penetration. Also, get Bard's Dancing Shoes, best for Leliana. Best bows to equip in is the Spear-Thrower (found in the Dead Trenches off of the Forge Master Genlock mini-boss), Mage's Eye (chest in Village of Haven), or the Far Song (if you didn't save the blacksmith's daughter, Valena, during the Redcliffe Castle Quest than another blacksmith will appear and the Far Song is available for about 98 sovereigns). I recommend in keeping Leliana as a ranged character with specializations as Bard (default) and Ranger. Rangers can summon an animal that acts like an extra party member (level 1 - spider, level 2 - wolf, level 3 - bear, level 4 - all animals are upgraded).
Dual-wielding Rogues: Focus on Dexterity, Cunning, Willpower, and from time to time add points to Strenght if you are aiming to equip swords instead of daggers. Best equipment for a DW Rogue is Felon's Coat that you can purchase at Wade's Emporium, but only if you have commissioned the second set of Drakeskin Armor. If you can't afford Felon's Coat, the next best choice is Shadow of the Empire, purchased from the merchant dwarf near Dust Town. My character is also equipped with Red Jenny's Seekers . The best weapons are to wield the Rose's Thorn with the Dead Thaig Shanker (Stone Prisoner DLC) or Duncan's Dagger (Return to Ostagar DLC) or Thorn of the Dead Gods. Also, another good choice to equip along with the Rose's Thorn is the Biteback Axe, received from the body of Howe. The Veshialle or the Axe of Grey or the Axameter are also good alternative choices to choose besides the Biteback Axe. Keep the DW Rogue with specializations of Assassin and Dueler. My character is equipped with Rose's Thorn and Biteback axe, both enhanced with Grandmaster Runes. To me, these two make an extremely valuable combination.

I believe you meant to say "haven't commissioned the second set of Drakeskin Armor." Once you ask for the second set of armor from Wade, his shop closes down and you can't buy those items anymore...

[zuhalter187]

so after you get the second set of armor from wade you can no longer get the felons coat?