327 réponses à ce sujet

[Dbohr]

Unless I'm camping -- and really, I only camp with a Demolisher when farming -- I leave my pylon at strategic positions for anyone to help themselves. Free ammo and grenades, everyone!

[Booshnickins]

HinDae wrote...

These guys are a real problem.

Every time I spot one in the lobby, I switch in Krogan soldier for his Inferno grenades to help with tech bursts (If it can, I never notice) and to provide consistent fire damage against the myriad or armoured opponents.

But then, I spot said demolisher set up his/her Pylon and sit RIGHT ON TOP OF IT, soaking up all grenades as it spits them out.

This is pretty sad IMO, to me the Demolisher is a classic support character, and yet he absolutely NEEDS every grenade it throws out?

Anyone else have problems with Selfish Demolishers?

If they're on their pylon then that means ALL of the other ammo boxes have grenades in them for you to take.

[MaxShine]

as long as they kill stuff with their grenades I am ok with anything they do...

[L.ast L.ife]

Jack Crapper wrote...

L.ast L.ife wrote...

The funniest thing about this thread is every game I've been in with multiple Demos is an in-game live reinactment of Arts and Crafts time in public school. No drama, no whining, no demands or expectations what so ever. We're all sitting peacefully in our own little corner of the map or camping spot the team is roasting marshmellows on in perfect harmony. We never fight over each others grenade stash, prioritize revives almost instinctively and when a hack occurs we pair them up to form a Super Pylon of Voltron proportions.

Then when it's all said and done we high five and exchange contact information for Brunch that coming Sunday. We're too civilized bro. Truly.

Ahh, you must be Mormon.  I hear only Mormons are this nice.  I applaud you, good sir.

SWANK.

I think we as Demo players need to consider developing an in-game character sign language guide for welcome and unwelcomed Pylon usage.  Something both universal and obvious enough to tone down these ridiculous demand threads.  For instance... if we're both camping on the same piece of cover then I suddenly recast my Pylon closer to you and roll away from it?  That means I'm topped off and my engines are revin' bro so go get some explosive goodies, ammo, or both.  Rolling away guarantees I don't accidently pick up your share - I don't need it.  Either that or you're doing enough work to justify the sacrifice.

However... any time you see a Demo using an ammo box when they aren't camping anywhere near it?  It's probably high time you back the ___ up for a second and let 'em get a little somethin' somethin', ya dig?  Your kind of black holing the goody box, bro.  Not cool.  It usually only takes two or three recasts for a decent reup.  I think that's reasonable especially if you're rocking a Harrier like I am.

[prog_bassist]

L.ast L.ife wrote...

Jack Crapper wrote...

L.ast L.ife wrote...

The funniest thing about this thread is every game I've been in with multiple Demos is an in-game live reinactment of Arts and Crafts time in public school. No drama, no whining, no demands or expectations what so ever. We're all sitting peacefully in our own little corner of the map or camping spot the team is roasting marshmellows on in perfect harmony. We never fight over each others grenade stash, prioritize revives almost instinctively and when a hack occurs we pair them up to form a Super Pylon of Voltron proportions.

Then when it's all said and done we high five and exchange contact information for Brunch that coming Sunday. We're too civilized bro. Truly.

Ahh, you must be Mormon.  I hear only Mormons are this nice.  I applaud you, good sir.

SWANK.

I think we as Demo players need to consider developing an in-game character sign language guide for welcome and unwelcomed Pylon usage.  Something both universal and obvious enough to tone down these ridiculous demand threads.  For instance... if we're both camping on the same piece of cover then I suddenly recast my Pylon closer to you and roll away from it?  That means I'm topped off and my engines are revin' bro so go get some explosive goodies, ammo, or both.  Rolling away guarantees I don't accidently pick up your share - I don't need it.  Either that or you're doing enough work to justify the sacrifice.

However... any time you see a Demo using an ammo box when they aren't camping anywhere near it?  It's probably high time you back the ___ up for a second and let 'em get a little somethin' somethin', ya dig?  Your kind of black holing the goody box, bro.  Not cool.  It usually only takes two or three recasts for a decent reup.  I think that's reasonable especially if you're rocking a Harrier like I am.

I leave my pylon laying around - You're welcome to it. 
I cast it near a hack - You're welcome to it.
I shoot you - Get off.

[RGZ Archer]

L.ast L.ife wrote...

Jack Crapper wrote...

L.ast L.ife wrote...

The funniest thing about this thread is every game I've been in with multiple Demos is an in-game live reinactment of Arts and Crafts time in public school. No drama, no whining, no demands or expectations what so ever. We're all sitting peacefully in our own little corner of the map or camping spot the team is roasting marshmellows on in perfect harmony. We never fight over each others grenade stash, prioritize revives almost instinctively and when a hack occurs we pair them up to form a Super Pylon of Voltron proportions.

Then when it's all said and done we high five and exchange contact information for Brunch that coming Sunday. We're too civilized bro. Truly.

Ahh, you must be Mormon.  I hear only Mormons are this nice.  I applaud you, good sir.

SWANK.

I think we as Demo players need to consider developing an in-game character sign language guide for welcome and unwelcomed Pylon usage.  Something both universal and obvious enough to tone down these ridiculous demand threads.  For instance... if we're both camping on the same piece of cover then I suddenly recast my Pylon closer to you and roll away from it?  That means I'm topped off and my engines are revin' bro so go get some explosive goodies, ammo, or both.  Rolling away guarantees I don't accidently pick up your share - I don't need it.  Either that or you're doing enough work to justify the sacrifice.

However... any time you see a Demo using an ammo box when they aren't camping anywhere near it?  It's probably high time you back the ___ up for a second and let 'em get a little somethin' somethin', ya dig?  Your kind of black holing the goody box, bro.  Not cool.  It usually only takes two or three recasts for a decent reup.  I think that's reasonable especially if you're rocking a Harrier like I am.

What of Demo's putting pylons near ammo crates and taking all granades from both their pylon AND the crate?

[Mac100]

What did people do for grenades before the demolisher's pylon came along?

I remember, used to get them from those magic boxes that where placed about the maps , silly me:)

[Rahmiel]

If one were to accept the premise of the OP's post, then a similar argument could be made for an asari justicar spec'd for warp bubble to be selfish if placed not on the group. To get the most out of that ability, one has to place it at choke points. However, it innately gives what.. 10 or 25% dmg reduction base, with more as a possible spec?

Anyway, I wouldn't consider them selfish for not buffing the group with dmg reduction to set up warp combos. In the same way, I don't think anything bad of a demo sitting on their pylon. I have no problems sharing ammo, but my nades are mine. I have yet to see anyone set up and set off as many tech explosions as my demolisher.

Once you get good at the character, you can judge the perfect distance to fire off a homing nade, followed instantly by an arc grenade. If you've spec'd for the dot damage, then the arc will land just a smidge before the homing and prime everything in the area for a massive tech burst. This costs 2 grenades, or looking at the regeneration rate (~12 sec)

I ended up in a lobby with a friend and a pug went demo as well. Although, instead of using his own grenades, he set up his pylon right next to mine so that I could use HIS grenades as well as my own. What a freakin' match. It was better than Oprah Winfrey at Grenade Christmas.. "YOU GET A GRENADE, YOU GET A GRENADE, YOU ALL GET GRENADES!" Man.. the geth got rocked hard.

[L.ast L.ife]

RGZ Archer wrote...

What of Demo's putting pylons near ammo crates and taking all granades from both their pylon AND the crate?

Technically they're dicks without question, but every map has multiple ammo boxes and everyone completed games before the Pylon existed so...

However...

If it's U/U/G or P + you're on a s__tacular map + she's camping on the most tactically safe box?  \\

Definitely a jackass.  Feel free to take whatever you can get whenever you can get it.

[MybadhomieLoL]

If you play a Demolisher to supply others with grenades don't ask to be on my team because I believe you have no idea to fully play your character at even 40% of her potential and you are going to wipe us.

If you are changing your character because there is a Demolisher on your team with thee intention of getting their grenades then you have no idea how that class works and you don't need to ever play with a Demolisher until you do.

Taking a character's grenades whose only power is grenades is just wrong. No two ways about it and you should be ashamed of yourself. You have other abilities and she doesn't. Use them or go walk and get more grenades.

Also you can get that pylon replenishing every 4-5 seconds if you take a low weight weapon. You will rank first nearly every time on Platinum and will be an excellent support for your team.

When I do play my Demolisher on Platinum and I am caused to be dislodged from a cover because I am laying a pylon and a destroyer is trying to camp my pylon to take away my only ability which is grenades when he has devastator, his powerful gun probably a typhoon, and either missile launcher or grenades plus tons more shields and armor than me to be able to get more grenades if need be, that is wrong and it is LAZY on their part.

I don't feel sorry for you wanting to break my character for your greed.

[MacGarrus]

Distilled Poison wrote...

"I know you can get grenades from ammo boxes, but I shouldn't have to do that, the Demolisher should."

"I know you can refill your grenades with Thermal Clips, but I shouldn't have to do that, the Demolisher should."

"I know the Demolisher can make better use of grenades than I can, but I want to be in first place."

"I know it's most efficient if the Demolisher sits on the Pylon and replaces it as soon as he can, but I want to make everything inefficient by demanding he give it to me."

"I know it's his class to play, but me me ME ME ME I DEFINE HOW A class SHOULD BE PLAYED EVEN THOUGH I'M DEMANDING INEFFICIENCY."

The thought process of everyone who thinks their team mate's Pylon belongs to them.

Sums it up pretty well to me.

[NOME]

I play demolisher a lot and I share my nades. I would bring demolisher on purpose if we are playing on a "hard to get ammo" map to supply the team with ammo. This is a coop game,and I like teamwork.

However, stop calling ppl selfish because you are being the selfish one. If you play krogan, you have high shield and health. If you play QME, you have incinerate and tac scan. Demolisher has none of those. Ppl cant just expect others to share while being greedy.

When I am not playing demolisher, I run to ammo boxes or use my ammo pack. Some of you ppl have more than 200 ammo packs. OP, YOU HAVE 255 CLIP PACKS! USE THEM BEFORE YOU CALL PEOPLE SELFISH.

I like to share, but you have no reason to call other demolishers selfish just because they are unwilling to share their main source of firepower and you are unwilling to use your damn ammo packs.

[RGZ Archer]

L.ast L.ife wrote...

RGZ Archer wrote...

What of Demo's putting pylons near ammo crates and taking all granades from both their pylon AND the crate?

Technically they're dicks without question, but every map has multiple ammo boxes and everyone completed games before the Pylon existed so...

However...

If it's U/U/G or P + you're on a s__tacular map + she's camping on the most tactically safe box? 

Definitely a jackass.  Feel free to take whatever you can get whenever you can get it.

Just checking, I've played a few times where multiple people use the Demo class, burn through their grenades, then I end up fighting them for ammo or grenades at ammo boxes...worse when its multiple offenders...

[JLoco11]

Demolishers only powers are the grenades (and a powerful gun), other classes with grenades have at least 1 rechargeable power.

So it makes sense to babysit the pylon. At least if a Krogan, Drell or Soldier runs out of grenades, they have another power to use

[Fonz99]

I don’t see why people are so uptight about demolishers sitting on their pylon, hell just pretend they weren’t in the match to begin with and you would still have to go and find grenades/ammo yourself. Personally when I see a demolisher in my match I don’t think “Oh I’ll follow him around and constantly replen my ammo / nades” I play as I normally would. A demolisher on a map is not an excuse to become lazy.

With that being said I have no problem sharing ammo/nades when I’m demolisher and the other day I played a match with two destroyers (I was one) and a demolisher join and constantly spawned the pylon at our feet. And he still held his own on the “scoreboard” so it’s not really an excuse to say “I need all my nades” either, but in the same breath who cares if they hog their pylon. Just play your character as you normally would.

[RamPuppy]

OP, did you even think your argument through before posting?

let me give you a lesson so you will understand. My Demolisher, like many of them - has absolutely NOTHING in fitness. She's specc'ed for nades nades and more nades. She runs with a harrier - and with that weight penalty she can put down a pylon about every 16 seconds, the pylon dispenses nades every 14.29 seconds. If i want to increase my output I would need to spec a power efficency module or use a lighter weapon. Personally - until my harrier gets up to a higher level (and thus weighs less) I think my time is better spent shooting that harrier than re-deploying the pylon. Thats just me though - others have lighter weapons or do use the power efficiency module and get it down even more. simple truth is - that for a lot of people we cant get that 200% cooldown that makes popping the pylon down insanely efficient w/o using gear - and im sorry - while i grant you have a limited right to my left overs - you aint got no right to dictate my build, or what gear/equipment i put on the nade lady.


So lets compare what your grenades do to what MY grenades do. I'm using my own builds here - so they are not apples to apples unfortunatley - and im not wasting respec cards on this so deal.

Krogan Soldier w/ Radius, Capcity, Armor
DPS - 178.13
Duration: 8 seconds + 50% Armor damage

Demolisher w/ Damage, Flame, Split
DPS - 1560 INSTANT
Duration - 6 seconds + 50%

So - 8 seconds after my grenades have hit, done an instant 1560 points of damage and have continued burn - your grenades will FINALLY get there with 1425.04 points of damage. So why should i let you have that grenade? Mine is obviously better. (and im not even taking the percentage of damage over time into account)

How about QME vs Demolisher

QME Arc Grenade Damage/Electrical/Damage
DPS: 877.5
Electrical: 40% over 10 Seconds
Radius: 8M

QMI Ar Crenade Radius/Capacity/Armor
DPS: 742.5
Radius: 10.4

Demolisher: Radius, Electrical, Shields & Barriers
DPS: 660
Electrical: 40% over 10 seconds
Radius: 7.8m

So - no matter how you slice it - QM's are better Arc Grenadiers - but not by much. I'd be far more willing to share w/ a QME than a Krogan Soldier.

(How bout you re-spec into carnage?)

Lets try some other classes:

Demolisher P&F/P&F/P&F
Damage: 927
Force: 2550

Yup.. my homing grenades still do more damage...

Human Soldier:
Damage: 1275

yeah - still doing more damage.

Drell Adept:
Damage: 1025
Force: 2050

Yeah - still doing more damage...

AND - if i combine them i can set off my own tech burst or fire explosion.. so 3 explosions for 2 nades.. can you do that? no... i don't think you can even set your own fire explosions off...

We can keep going - you getting the point?

no one who has ever played with me has accused me of not being a team player - I love the team dynamic. BUt what your asking - is like me telling a biotic not to use his biotics. Shame on you for thinking your allowed to do offensive damage mr. adept! shame! Your here to support me!

No sir - I am not playing a jock strap - i am playing a Demolisher.

If we were running to an ammo crate - i would have just as much right as you to the nades in that crate. But Sir I put my pylon down - it's MY resource - and I need it. I will share as i can - but if It's close to the end of Wave 9 on a Gold or Platinum match and you see me camping my pylon (or if my cooldown goes down - spamming a pylon) guess what - I'm trying to make sure I have 11 grenades ready to rain pain down on wave 10 - you know - to make sure you don't die again.

[-Sxx-]

I'm half and half. Sometimes when I share people end up hogging all of my ammo and it's rather irritating. Though I've come across Demo's who just hog all their ammo without any consideration for others. However, the only reason most demos actually plant the pylons so close is so they don't have to stray from cover to get their nades.

[L.ast L.ife]

RGZ Archer wrote...

L.ast L.ife wrote...

RGZ Archer wrote...

What of Demo's putting pylons near ammo crates and taking all granades from both their pylon AND the crate?

Technically they're dicks without question, but every map has multiple ammo boxes and everyone completed games before the Pylon existed so...

However...

If it's U/U/G or P + you're on a s__tacular map + she's camping on the most tactically safe box? 

Definitely a jackass.  Feel free to take whatever you can get whenever you can get it.

Just checking, I've played a few times where multiple people use the Demo class, burn through their grenades, then I end up fighting them for ammo or grenades at ammo boxes...worse when its multiple offenders...

A Demo who has to place their Pylon atop an Ammo Box and camp there just to get through a game doesn't deserve access to the class.  You can't have your cake and eat it too, bro.  A competent Demolisher barely glances at the damn thing anyway.  Hell... I only use it for emergencies e.g. just finished a Plat objective and I'm running on empty.  The only players who absolutely NEED 3 grenades during a reup to function are exactly the type you'll have to carry at some point.  I make a conscientious effort to leave all ammo boxes on the map for my teammates out of respect.

IMO, this is the way I see it:

Demo - Normal Waves
Standard Supply Line - Your Own Pylon, Ammo Consumables
Emergencies Only - Ammo Boxes, Other Pylons

Team - Normal Waves
Standard Supply Line - Ammo Boxes, Ammo Consumables, Your Own Pylon (occasional or when camping)
Energencies Only - Your Own Pylon

Demo - Objective Waves

Share with everyone or GTFO especially if it's a god damn Hack.

Team - Objective Waves

Take whatever the hell you want especially if it's a god damn Hack.

I think that's more than fair unless you've made it perfectly clear you're a lazy bum mooching off my ****.  Then you get nothing and if you troll me I'll place it in an enemy spawn on the other side of the map.  I'm straight with living off consumable ammo packs for the rest of the game.

Modifié par L.ast L.ife, 25 juillet 2012 - 12:54 .

[Asebstos]

Distilled Poison wrote...
"I know the Demolisher can make better use of grenades than I can, but I want to be in first place."

Except that isn't true. The Demo does, in fact, NOT have the best grenades around.

If an MQI or MQE wants to take my grenades he can go right ahead, his are better. And since he can't carry as many as I can I know he'll fill up faster than me and I can pick up the extras.

Also, I have this crazy thing called a gun and, along with giving me extra grenades, my Demolisher passive ends up boosting my weapon DPS by 17.5%. Saying that the grenades are the only source of Demolisher DPS is like saying the Batarian Soldier (or whatever) only has Ballistic Blades and Inferno Grenades for DPS.

[RGZ Archer]

L.ast L.ife wrote...

RGZ Archer wrote...

L.ast L.ife wrote...

RGZ Archer wrote...

What of Demo's putting pylons near ammo crates and taking all granades from both their pylon AND the crate?

Technically they're dicks without question, but every map has multiple ammo boxes and everyone completed games before the Pylon existed so...

However...

If it's U/U/G or P + you're on a s__tacular map + she's camping on the most tactically safe box? 

Definitely a jackass.  Feel free to take whatever you can get whenever you can get it.

Just checking, I've played a few times where multiple people use the Demo class, burn through their grenades, then I end up fighting them for ammo or grenades at ammo boxes...worse when its multiple offenders...

A Demo who has to place their Pylon atop an Ammo Box and camp there just to get through a game doesn't deserve access to the class.  You can't have your cake and eat it too, bro.  A competent Demolisher barely glances at the damn thing anyway.  Hell... I only use it for emergencies e.g. just finished a Plat objective and I'm running on empty.  The only players who absolutely NEED 3 grenades during a reup to function are exactly the type you'll have to carry at some point.  I make a conscientious effort to leave all ammo boxes on the map for my teammates out of respect.

IMO, this is the way I see it:

Demo - Normal Waves
Standard Supply Line - Your Own Pylon, Ammo Consumables
Emergencies Only - Ammo Boxes, Other Pylons

Team - Normal Waves
Standard Supply Line - Ammo Boxes, Ammo Consumables, Your Own Pylon (occasional or when camping)
Energencies Only - Your Own Pylon

Demo - Objective Waves

Share with everyone or GTFO especially if it's a god damn Hack.

Team - Objective Waves

Take whatever the hell you want especially if it's a god damn Hack.

I think that's more than fair unless you've made it perfectly clear you're a lazy bum mooching off my ****.  Then you get nothing and if you troll me I'll place it in an enemy spawn on the other side of the map.  I'm straight with living off consumable ammo packs for the rest of the game.

Pretty much what I figured. Normally I set up near a choke point and lie in wait with my Reegar. The damage buff the pylon gives makes that thing pretty dangrous, same with my Ravager lol

[Asebstos]

RamPuppy wrote...

Drell Adept:
Damage: 1025
Force: 2050

Yeah - still doing more damage...
.

Need to add the BE the cluster invariably sets off. Also, the damage/force listed for Cluster grenades is per fragment, there's no way the homing grenade out DPSs a Drell Adept tossing Clusters. Devastator multi-frag damage is also per fragment.

[DoubleHell]

A selfish demolisher is one who grabs all the grenades from ammo boxes throughout the map, as well as their own supply pylon grenades.

If the demolisher is only grabbing grenades from his own pylon, it leaves the ammo box spawns free for everyone else.

[Sacramentum]

HinDae wrote...

ProfGast wrote...

As a demolisher player myself, I have no problems sharing grenades (since I can drop 6 in about 16 seconds using the Pylon-drop method) but honestly, a Destroyer has no other skills EXCEPT grenades. They need them to stay effective. I'll usually drop my pylon to force-grenades and also run back to it every now and then but if I'm camping or defending a spot, you better bet I'm going to sit on the pylon :-P

That said I've seen a lot of Demolishers act like low-grade sniper infiltrators, i.e. they sit there and never leave the spot ever. Even if there's an escort, a pizza delivery or hack. THAT is wrong.

Otherwise, I'll drop my pylon, you're free to come get grenades from it, but I will be using it to make sure I have plenty of 'nades too.

Edit
@L.astL.ife: You clearly didn't name your Demolisher the right thing.

This post gave me hope. A well thought out reply other than "But I NEEEED mah naeds!!1"

Yah its good to see that. I personally don't use the drop method, prefering to bring two heavy weapons, but I still let my allies in on some of the grenade/ammo action. I also don't spam my grenades pointlessly, and always fire off a tech burst to maximize my damage.

When you are doing a pizza or droney mission, it helps to be able to throw dow the turret while you guys are running at least once. You'll give everyone a spike of shields, and recover some of the teams ammo.

[RamPuppy]

Asebstos wrote...

RamPuppy wrote...

Drell Adept:
Damage: 1025
Force: 2050

Yeah - still doing more damage...
.

Need to add the BE the cluster invariably sets off. Also, the damage/force listed for Cluster grenades is per fragment, there's no way the homing grenade out DPSs a Drell Adept tossing Clusters. Devastator multi-frag damage is also per fragment.

Was not aware of that - if thats the case though i can modify my numbers on the demolisher since i use a split.

[gimmethegepgun]

Asebstos wrote...

Distilled Poison wrote...
"I know the Demolisher can make better use of grenades than I can, but I want to be in first place."

Except that isn't true. The Demo does, in fact, NOT have the best grenades around.

If an MQI or MQE wants to take my grenades he can go right ahead, his are better. And since he can't carry as many as I can I know he'll fill up faster than me and I can pick up the extras.

Also, I have this crazy thing called a gun and, along with giving me extra grenades, my Demolisher passive ends up boosting my weapon DPS by 17.5%. Saying that the grenades are the only source of Demolisher DPS is like saying the Batarian Soldier (or whatever) only has Ballistic Blades and Inferno Grenades for DPS.

The batarian also has more base shield and will, no matter what, either have Fitness or Blade Armor specced and can actually stay out of cover for some amount of time to shoot that gun.