Pls, stop with the hyperboles. Sniper Rifles aren't useless, they are a little unbalanced. It's not as effective as it was, you can do better with a shotgun, but still viable. It can use a buff, no doubt on that, but stop with all the drama, "OMG, bioware hate snipers and are trying to destroy us". It's just not truth.
ALL Sniper Rifles Are Now Completely Useless
Débuté par
N7-RedFox
, juil. 24 2012 10:12
Retour en haut
#202
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 02:22
ShinTheZero
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LeandroBraz wrote...
Pls, stop with the hyperboles. Sniper Rifles aren't useless, they are a little unbalanced. It's not as effective as it was, you can do better with a shotgun, but still viable. It can use a buff, no doubt on that, but stop with all the drama, "OMG, bioware hate snipers and are trying to destroy us". It's just not truth.
Someone, who finally understands it!
SRs are unbalanced compared to other weapons, so they need the balance.
"Bioware hates TC + Snipers, Infiltrators are still OP" are the wrong things to say.
#203
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 02:27
Pedactor
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OK, well the Valiant and Black Widow are still amazing since you can get multiple shots off under cloak. So is the Kishok if you are good with its mechanics and dealing with the travel time of its harpoons.
But the best SR at this point is the Indra. Piercing + EB + Amps = very strong damage.
It's effective against shields and barriers due to rate of fire (even on Platinum) and decent against Armor. It also weighs next to nothing so you can equip a strong Shotgun with it for up-close work.
The issue with the single-shot guns is that shield gate renders a UR (Javelin), R (Widow), and the starter SR (Mantis) effectively the same unless shields are stripped.
Meaning the Javelin is really only great on a class that can strip the shields for you first (Salarian Infiltrator, MQI).
Problem is that its weight lowers the effective amount of times you can use Energy Drain to get those shields down.
AS FOR THE SKYLL-SAE:
It was talentless. You didn't even have to hit your target. It bypassed cover because of its proximity fuse. It staggered and it AoE'd.
Which is why the Javelin needs to bypass shield gate. Even if no other gun does. It has a small charge up. It actually requires some forethought.
By this same argument, the Kishock should technically be the most powerful SR there is because of how unwieldy it is.
But the best SR at this point is the Indra. Piercing + EB + Amps = very strong damage.
It's effective against shields and barriers due to rate of fire (even on Platinum) and decent against Armor. It also weighs next to nothing so you can equip a strong Shotgun with it for up-close work.
The issue with the single-shot guns is that shield gate renders a UR (Javelin), R (Widow), and the starter SR (Mantis) effectively the same unless shields are stripped.
Meaning the Javelin is really only great on a class that can strip the shields for you first (Salarian Infiltrator, MQI).
Problem is that its weight lowers the effective amount of times you can use Energy Drain to get those shields down.
AS FOR THE SKYLL-SAE:
It was talentless. You didn't even have to hit your target. It bypassed cover because of its proximity fuse. It staggered and it AoE'd.
Which is why the Javelin needs to bypass shield gate. Even if no other gun does. It has a small charge up. It actually requires some forethought.
By this same argument, the Kishock should technically be the most powerful SR there is because of how unwieldy it is.
Modifié par Pedactor, 25 juillet 2012 - 02:31 .
#204
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 02:29
Klokos
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Pedactor wrote...
[...]
Problem is that its weight lowers the effective amount of times you can use Energy Drain to get those shields down.
TC can still be used to bypass skills cooldown making the widow/mantis good, I wouldn't call the Javelin good unless you have it rank V+ where it becomes a rather nice boss killer.
#205
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 02:32
robgfaulkner
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Amnesiotic wrote...
My SI is spec'd for duration and rockin' a Valiant: Life is still good for me.
Amen. Use a real sniper rifle like the Valiant. Or that Black Widow...
#206
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 02:35
Pedactor
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Klokos wrote...
Pedactor wrote...
[...]
Problem is that its weight lowers the effective amount of times you can use Energy Drain to get those shields down.
TC can still be used to bypass skills cooldown making the widow/mantis good, I wouldn't call the Javelin good unless you have it rank V+ where it becomes a rather nice boss killer.
It's an Ultra Rare, weighs a ton, and actually does require a bit of skill to aim due to the charge up. It holds a very small amount of ammo.
It should bypass shield gate. It's got enough going against it.
#207
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 02:37
BoomDynamite
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Um, the Kishock still penetrates.
#208
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 02:39
Klokos
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Pedactor wrote...
Klokos wrote...
Pedactor wrote...
[...]
Problem is that its weight lowers the effective amount of times you can use Energy Drain to get those shields down.
TC can still be used to bypass skills cooldown making the widow/mantis good, I wouldn't call the Javelin good unless you have it rank V+ where it becomes a rather nice boss killer.
It's an Ultra Rare, weighs a ton, and actually does require a bit of skill to aim due to the charge up. It holds a very small amount of ammo.
It should bypass shield gate. It's got enough going against it.
I think you misunderstood me, I said the javelin isn't very good. I always wanted it to ignore (at least a part) of shield gate.
#209
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 02:40
robgfaulkner
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xsmiv wrote...
CaptainTeabag wrote...
Shadow Strike - To risky to use in Gold or Platinum because enemies murder you during your strike animation (even when you cloak from cover before you use SS - even if you have TC evolution 6 'one free power use.'
Shadow strike can be used reliably and effectively on Gold - you just have to be smart about picking your targets. Haven't tried the Shadow on Platinum yet.
I use Shadow Strike to finish off bosses all the time. But xsmiv is right, you have to be selective in its use. Don't go SS a mob that is surrounded by 5 others. Your asking to get splatted. Lately, I have been using Cloak, an ES, followed by SS and clean up with Pirranha shotgun to good success.
#210
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 02:40
Kahen40000
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Sorry to write this, but i can't read anymore; if you bring in a gold/platimun match, a fully equipped infiltrator using a BW/Valiant and say he suck....well in my opinion there is really something wrong with the aim and/or play style.
And btw i'm the only one thinking that the Krysae was terrible on platinum? I mean, basically a boss mode and you bring one of the less effective weapon against armour??
And btw i'm the only one thinking that the Krysae was terrible on platinum? I mean, basically a boss mode and you bring one of the less effective weapon against armour??
#211
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 02:47
AsheraII
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Well, guess what? This isn't Call of Duty. There are some kind of zombies available though, they're called HUSKS. If you want to waste your high damage weapon on oneshotting husks, go ahead, but not in my lobby.Wordlywisewiz wrote...
Its still the point in ALL games HEADSHOTS 1 hit kill! Shield gate is boring and no fun to play with.
This game should have been like call of duty zombies. More enemies of the weaker type rushing you
Primes should also take headshot damage but the head should be covered by 2-3 armored plates that need to be knocked off with a power with enough force (calling for team work)
But just incase you do enter my lobby: maybe save your bullets for better targets, like a pyro's cannister, untill someone (Could be you! There's so much more to infiltrating than just sniping!) strips the shield from the Prime, and THAT is the time you should come in with your high damage against it, NOT before.
Same thing against Reapers: sort out other targets untill the heavy shields come off, then start sniping.
An N7 Shadow actually shouldn't be sniping at all. It's a much better choice to go for a shotgun/smg combo. Shotgun for quick pump action and the melee mod, smg for stripping shields. ES for clearing trash at range or behind low cover, not to mention mass shieldstripping, SS for maneuverability and killing blows.
Don't even consider SS -> ES explosions. Even at 200% recharge reduction it takes too long, though it's great for a setup with another player, and let your partner detonate.
Also make very, very sure that the target isn't targetting you before the SS. Preferrably, your target is actually already targetting either a squadmate of yours or some decoy, that is the BIGGEST guarantee you'll get for a succesful SS.
Simple aggro-mechanics: the moment you hit your SS button, you'll generate some aggro from the target. If the target does not have any aggro list yet, it puts you on top right away. and attack you. But, if one of your team mates hit the target with as little as 1 bullet, even from an SMG, before the attack, that initial aggro from the SS won't be enough to put you at the top of the aggro list. The damage from your SS, which is calculated on impact however, might be enough to put you at the top of the list.
Keep in mind that aggro lists might clear after a short period when the target "goes missing". This time might be as little as 5 seconds. So if your squadie fires a bullet and moves completely out of line of sight, his aggro entry might get cleared, though the target will probably move in his/her last known direction. But, this means that you might think the target is after someone else, while it isn't. So, your SS will immediately make it the only entry in its aggro list, meaning it might (again) target AND KILL you before the SS is fully resolved.
Yes, a simple lesson in Shadow play and Aggro mechanics. This game may be easy, but not as easy as it seems at times. If you run around for frags and just do whatever, you'll get killed. Especially on Gold and Plat.
#212
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 02:48
.458
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Just a point and not an argument that sniper rifles are or are not useless...
We never see a breakdown of how kills were performed, and what contributed. We don't know if being under cover for the damage bonus aided killing, we don't know if most was from grenades or melee or just a good diplomatic talk boring the enemy to death. I really don't think most balance arguments hold water when we base it on numbers taken out of context and don't really know true comparisons. How we play, e.g., under cover or not, head shots or not, oversized barrel mod versus scope mod, so on, make for lots of apples and oranges comparisons. We ALL have some options for increased damage and such that we don't use. Sometimes one guy just happens to also be a better shot and hit with more bullets, so WE REALLY NEED BW TO GIVE SCORE A BETTER BREAKDOWN. A better breakdown would also be more fun, and make for real discussion.
If we do have a better breakdown, we also should have in it defensive items too, like how many times we died, what percent time was spent under cover, what percent was wasted reloading or out of ammo, so on.
We never see a breakdown of how kills were performed, and what contributed. We don't know if being under cover for the damage bonus aided killing, we don't know if most was from grenades or melee or just a good diplomatic talk boring the enemy to death. I really don't think most balance arguments hold water when we base it on numbers taken out of context and don't really know true comparisons. How we play, e.g., under cover or not, head shots or not, oversized barrel mod versus scope mod, so on, make for lots of apples and oranges comparisons. We ALL have some options for increased damage and such that we don't use. Sometimes one guy just happens to also be a better shot and hit with more bullets, so WE REALLY NEED BW TO GIVE SCORE A BETTER BREAKDOWN. A better breakdown would also be more fun, and make for real discussion.
If we do have a better breakdown, we also should have in it defensive items too, like how many times we died, what percent time was spent under cover, what percent was wasted reloading or out of ammo, so on.
#213
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 02:49
EVILFLUFFMONSTER
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I dont see a problem with most SR's, seem pretty balanced to me if you compare them to the other weapons - the problem is you are comparing them to how powerful they all used to be with the 40% damage bonus before nerfs.
People moan the AR's are not as powerful as the other weapons, decreasing TC's SR damage bonus evened the score a bit as I suspect that the only reason people thought the SR's did a lot more damage is because they mostly used them on cloaked characters. Try using an SR on a class without TC or any sniper bonuses - most feel pretty bad compared - there isn't that much of a gap between using them and the assault rifles as you thought, until of course you have to tackle an armoured target.
The Incisor still needs looking at, I love the way it looks but its damage is so poor the bonus against shield gate is negligible. The best way to use it that I have found is to spam it as fast you can, but even then I would be better with a raptor and the accuracy would be better. I looks so cool though, I would love to use it..
People moan the AR's are not as powerful as the other weapons, decreasing TC's SR damage bonus evened the score a bit as I suspect that the only reason people thought the SR's did a lot more damage is because they mostly used them on cloaked characters. Try using an SR on a class without TC or any sniper bonuses - most feel pretty bad compared - there isn't that much of a gap between using them and the assault rifles as you thought, until of course you have to tackle an armoured target.
The Incisor still needs looking at, I love the way it looks but its damage is so poor the bonus against shield gate is negligible. The best way to use it that I have found is to spam it as fast you can, but even then I would be better with a raptor and the accuracy would be better. I looks so cool though, I would love to use it..
#214
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 02:50
Hretha
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robgfaulkner wrote...
Amnesiotic wrote...
My SI is spec'd for duration and rockin' a Valiant: Life is still good for me.
Amen. Use a real sniper rifle like the Valiant. Or that Black Widow...
Same here - SI w / duration and a Valiant is still my fav; great support character that still does significant damage. I personally don't mind giving up some damage for duration to help the team with hacks and revives. When there's a questionable team in the lobby, he's my go-to-guy. Other builds are great when you're in the mood to wreak havoc (GI damage build, for instance); you can have them both!
A single class shouldn't be able to do it all; it's supposed to be a team effort
#215
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 06:07
ShinTheZero
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@Kill Streak: What an obvious troll.
1. Pretty balanced? So Claymore, Harrier and Piranha aren't balanced? *claps*
2. TC is good on all weapons, especially on the Claymore. The 25% multiplier does not give any benefits over the shotguns.
3. AR sucks? My Harrier wants to have a serious word with you.
4. The Incisor will be the dead duck in the Sniper Section like the Shuriken for the SMGs. This weapon needs a major buff, to become useable. And Sniper Rifles are already on the worse side, when it comes to damage against larger enemies.
@tonilynn17:
You've never seen the GI with Piranha or Claymore, do you? That guy had no nerf whatever through the TC cut, there are even become more dominant through Platinum. Team Effort is something, that the Infiltrator does a lot, starting from reviving to getting objectives. But characters like Destroyer do pretty much the same now, with the same damage on Shotguns.
Talking mighty about team effort is utterly wrong after so many introductions of characters.
1. Pretty balanced? So Claymore, Harrier and Piranha aren't balanced? *claps*
2. TC is good on all weapons, especially on the Claymore. The 25% multiplier does not give any benefits over the shotguns.
3. AR sucks? My Harrier wants to have a serious word with you.
4. The Incisor will be the dead duck in the Sniper Section like the Shuriken for the SMGs. This weapon needs a major buff, to become useable. And Sniper Rifles are already on the worse side, when it comes to damage against larger enemies.
@tonilynn17:
You've never seen the GI with Piranha or Claymore, do you? That guy had no nerf whatever through the TC cut, there are even become more dominant through Platinum. Team Effort is something, that the Infiltrator does a lot, starting from reviving to getting objectives. But characters like Destroyer do pretty much the same now, with the same damage on Shotguns.
Talking mighty about team effort is utterly wrong after so many introductions of characters.
#216
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 09:20
Binary_Helix 1
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ShinTheZero wrote...
3. AR sucks? My Harrier wants to have a serious word with you.
.
So one or two ARs are good and therefore they're all good? Sorry but they're DLC ultra rares. Likely made to make ARs useable for once. Weapons in ME3 feel weaker than in any other game DLC not withstanding. I suspect this is because ME3 no longer has class exclusive weapons. When I heard any class could use any weapon I knew they'd all suck as a result.
Modifié par Binary_Helix 1, 25 juillet 2012 - 09:22 .
#217
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 09:26
VRtheTrooper
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Kildin_of_the_Volus wrote...
My SI and valiant V disagrees
i only have a valiant II
#218
Posté 26 juillet 2012 - 04:40
loungeshep
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xsmiv wrote...
CaptainTeabag wrote...
Shadow Strike - To risky to use in Gold or Platinum because enemies murder you during your strike animation (even when you cloak from cover before you use SS - even if you have TC evolution 6 'one free power use.'
Shadow strike can be used reliably and effectively on Gold - you just have to be smart about picking your targets. Haven't tried the Shadow on Platinum yet.
Yeah, I"ve had an amazing amount of luck shadow striking on gold.
#219
Posté 26 juillet 2012 - 04:45
Rapture1983
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Anything I can do with a sniper rifle I can acomplish with a claymore...
#220
Posté 26 juillet 2012 - 04:47
R3DD0T
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welcome to the the soldier class and the useless assault rifles!
#221
Posté 26 juillet 2012 - 04:50
sydsyrious
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I decided to pull out the BW the other day since I had it leveled to VIII now.....not too shabby. Due to my scientific analysis....disagree with OP.
#222
Posté 26 juillet 2012 - 04:52
upinya slayin
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Inject- wrote...
sobbos wrote...
Inject- wrote...
Have you seen me with a Widow X? I make it dance, so this thread is pointless.
Use a Widow on platinum and you will not be 'helping' the team unless they are worse than you.
I use my Widow X on platinum and I do just fine. The above statement is a sack of horse sh!t.
sorry but i don't see it. just based on its damage, ROF, the amount of big bosses, even if you landed eveyr shot perfectly , never missed, and all headhsots you wouldn't put up enough points on a platinum victoy to be even half of 1st place
#223
Posté 26 juillet 2012 - 04:53
ShinTheZero
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@Cly57: On Bronze or Silver? Yeah, that might be true.
#224
Posté 26 juillet 2012 - 04:56
Silky_ZaChaos
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Kishock is probably the only rifle on that list that is still a viable option
#225
Posté 26 juillet 2012 - 04:58
sydsyrious
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ShinTheZero wrote...
@Cly57: On Bronze or Silver? Yeah, that might be true.
No....Gold too. I should have also included my Arc Grenades and Grenade gear as helping.
