254 réponses à ce sujet

[Immaculate J]

Lol Krysae...

[ShinTheZero]

For you, Bioware, if you want "good" spots for additional damage (not necessary headshot damage):
- Brute (Head: Obvious, he is a "big" Turian, like a big husk") x1.4
- Ravager (The Blue Area, which should present the eye) x1.3
- Geth Prime (Head Unit) x1.3
- Atlas (2 spots: 1 at the reactor from the back, 1 in the cockpit) x1.2, x1.3
- Banshees (1 Head, 1 while warping through the field) x1.3, x1.1

[Rifneno]

I always thought the weakest point on a brute should be the... "neck." I mean look at that thing. It's a cable a few inches wide. That's the only thing holding its head on. How hard could it be to break that thing and decapitate it?

[peddroelm]

Hulk Hsieh wrote...

3.5 x ?
That makes me wonder how the extra 20% headshot damage from passive applies.
Is it Damage x (3.5 + 0.2) or Damage x 3.5 x 1.2?

Its not *3.5 .. Its *2.5 ... 
And the answer to your second question is neither ... The 20% headshot damage from passive has nothing to do with the headshot multiplier which remains *2.5 ... Its just a regular damage bonus to be summed up with the rest in case of headshots ..

Modifié par peddroelmz, 25 juillet 2012 - 12:53 .

[Klokos]

ShinTheZero wrote...

For you, Bioware, if you want "good" spots for additional damage (not necessary headshot damage):
- Brute (Head: Obvious, he is a "big" Turian, like a big husk") x1.4
- Ravager (The Blue Area, which should present the eye) x1.3
- Geth Prime (Head Unit) x1.3
- Atlas (2 spots: 1 at the reactor from the back, 1 in the cockpit) x1.2, x1.3
- Banshees (1 Head, 1 while warping through the field) x1.3, x1.1

 What would you think that the Geth  would leave huge structural weaknesses in their biggest units ? It doesn't really makes sense for the Geth prime head to be a weakspot.

[BoomDynamite]

I thought they were glitches. Phantoms still get headshots though.

[Steppdaddy2]

Headshot a choked claymore makes bosses waaaay to easy. At least Primes and atlases. IMO bring Headshots back- but only for sniper rifles- in doing so let Headshots bypass the shield gate on single shot snipers- make them useful again!

[Jay_Hoxtatron]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

GroverA125 wrote...

<snip>
If that's the case then Brendon, why don't you consider lowering the armor rating of Banshees?
...
</snip>

I replied again with some more information on what sorts of things I think we could do...

With respect to the Banshee - when she's teleporting I'd agree with you, she's pretty hard to headshot. And on higher difficulties, that's a lot/most of the time. So I think I'd personally be fine with her having a relatively decent multiplier to reward player skill. :happy:

A x2 multiplier on the Banshees would be nice. even 1.75 would suffice. Not rewarding players when they aim for the head is effectively encouraging bad aiming. 

[Urdnot Trex]

Idk if someone mentioned this, but what if you turned of the multiplyer for guns w/out headshot mods or headshot gear/equipment. Then when u attatch these, you get the 3.5x multiplyer, and I'd have a use for my thirty+ targeting VIs! Javelin here I come! I miss my baby!

Also, you guys killed the kishok with the headshot removal, any chance this thing could be restored to is past glory?

Modifié par Urdnot Trex, 25 juillet 2012 - 01:26 .

[Bleachrude]

BoomDynamite wrote...

I thought they were glitches. Phantoms still get headshots though.

Phantoms, even though they are arguably the toughest "boss" in the game get the headshot bonus because even by her lonesome, a Phantom is tough to headshot...

Her head is small, she moves as fast as the geth hunter, she's agile and the phantom will break off and actually use cover or find another route to you (phantoms can use ladders and rocket jump into places one can drop down from as a player)...

Headshotting a phantom actually takes skill....

Headshotting a Prime or a Banshee? People that say it takes skill are mistaking the fact that what makes it difficult isn't the unit itself but the other mobs shooting at you...Frankly, it's harder to mail slot a guardian than it was to hit the head of a brute or prime.

Sure, when yuo got hunters approaching your position backed up by a couple of pyros lining up a headshot is tense, but that's not because of the prime itself....

[Dendio1]

Atheosis wrote...

Brenon Holmes wrote...

soldo9149 wrote...

So it would take longer for use to kill them.

Sort of... it's because they're (generally) easier to headshot and we had no way of controlling the headshot multilplier ona per-creature basis. And the headshot multiplier is goofy (3.5x or something like that?), intentionally - because it's normally somewhat harder to do (on a normal creature).

That said, I think it's something we're interested in - as headshots are always nice... if it was to be done, it would probably have to be implemented in such a way as to give us control over the multiplier per creature though.

What do you folks think would be a fair multiplier?

Atheosis wrote...

Beacuse you guys don't think things through a lot of the time?

K. Guess we won't talk about this then. Later.

LOL, talk about being oversensitive.

+50% would be a start.  Though you said you have no way to control headshots on a per-creature basis, so I'm not sure why you are asking.  Can you do per-creature modifiers or not?

I for one am tired of the sarcasm, hyperbole and overall negative attitude so prevalent on these forums. He's justified to get frustrated with the above spam.

[LeandroBraz]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

GroverA125 wrote...

<snip>
If that's the case then Brendon, why don't you consider lowering the armor rating of Banshees?
...
</snip>

I replied again with some more information on what sorts of things I think we could do...

With respect to the Banshee - when she's teleporting I'd agree with you, she's pretty hard to headshot. And on higher difficulties, that's a lot/most of the time. So I think I'd personally be fine with her having a relatively decent multiplier to reward player skill. :happy:

About Banshees, look like something changed on her defense against biotics when she get to armor. I can't do warp/throw explosions on her armor anymore, only using reave or dark channel. Why? 

[EVILFLUFFMONSTER]

I think they should still be there, they were an incentive for me to use sniper rifles with higher fire rates and to pick the headshot multiplier evolutions. I have never bothered since because TBH, the units you most want to do more damage to via a skillful shot are the big ones. It made using weaker rifles like the raptor not so bad as you could slap on AP mod and extended barrel and hammer the head to do some damage with the added headshot bonus, removing the bonus made it fairly rubbish. It was balanced with the heavier rifles because if you missed you had a long time before you could fire again.

I understand why it was taken away, because I had a claymore with shredder mod, extended barrel, AP ammo III, on a maxed weapon damage/ tactical cloaked salarian infiltrator on a bronze atlases cockpit..I think it took three shots(though more like two and a half) and it was down for the count, and with reload cancelling it didn't stand a chance. This was before patch.

However, on the other hand, it made using assault rifles, especially the accurate ones where it was much much easier to hit multiple headshots much more usable on higher difficulties, the removal of the headshot multiplier for the larger enemies really disappointed me in this area..(on a side note, PLEASE Bioware, increase the minimum bullet damage vs armour to 15, not 5 - it improves the weaker guns on higher difficulties, while not changing the powerful ones one bit. I ran the math and it substantially improves the worst AR's, whilst not overpowering anything at all -have to check this vs SMG's though..)

I think there should still be a bonus, as long as the bonus is not too much - the claymore vs atlas example was doing double damage due to the glitch, if this is fixed I see no problem now they also have increased shields and health compared to back then. I also agree that maybe the atlas weak spot should perhaps be the circular turbine at the rear, then it wouldn't be so easy and would take tactics to take advantage of. Without the option to headshot the bigger enemies, there isnt much reason to pick the headshot multiplier evolutions over power damage(or whatever the other one is I usually pick).

[Mgamerz]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

Shampoohorn wrote...

The extra damage for knocking off atlas plates is not that noticeable. Is the an additional stagger built into plate busting? If not, that would be a cool feature.

No, I don't believe it is... but that's something we could look at. The only thing I'd be worried with is that Atlas' are already pretty slow. Adding more CC stuff to them might be problematic... but that might be a nice bonus, since the plates aren't really near center mass and you kind of need to go out of your way to hit them... :happy:

The atlas should be more like the YMIR mech from ME2... that thing was dangerous and moved pretty fast.

[humes spork]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

With respect to the Atlas, we originally did want a weakpoint on the exhaust port on the back - but it got cut towards the end as there wasn't enough time to modify the physics asset (the collection of the aforementioned hit boxes) appropriately. That is something we could look at re-adding... as an aside, what do you guys think of the armour plates? (If you weren't aware, you can blow them off to get a bit of a damage bonus - each shoulder, knee and cod piece).

The issue with the Brute is that his head hangs almost directly over the center of his chest - so with a zoom snap on the sniper rifle you actually almost always hit the head by accident since the larger snap volume for the body applies and pulls your aim almost directly over the head... I think a headshot on him would be nice, but we'd probably want to keep the above in mind...

Ravagers... their "head" is actually their body... plus you already get a bit of bonus damage when you pop the sacks. (I can't recall the exact values off of the top of my head, but I'm fairly certain it's a decent % of max health).

Primes and Banshees are fairly straightforward... I think we'd probably want to look at just adding them back.

With regards to zoom snap and aim assist, I can understand its value with non-scoped weapons but to be quite frank I really wish it were removed for at the least sniper rifles and if possible, other weapons with scope mods. Zoom snap consistently ruins my shots personally, either by targeting the enemy's center-mass when I've already put my reticle on their head or by snapping to a different enemy altogether than the one I intended to shoot. It's a real pain when, for example, I'm trying to take out a nemesis or phantom and the headshot I've meticulously waited and set myself up for is ruined because my zoom snaps to the guardian next to her. Now, with regards to bosses...

I was under the assumption for a month or so after the game was released the thermal vent on the back of the atlas was a weak point, and went to lengths to get myself behind it accordingly. It's a contextual thing, that drew from video game convention (glowing/differently colored generally equals weak point), general knowledge of the ME universe (wherein the easiest way to completely wreck something's **** is to knock out its ability to sink heat), and the cutscene on Sur'Kesh before you fight the Atlas (showing in full frame that spot to be a part of its internal structure is a pretty obvious contextual clue to shoot there). Of course, I'm also a 20-odd-year Battletech player, which has nothing to do with ME so much but worth mentioning just to confess bias, so I pay extra attention to that sort of thing -- "heat sink" plus "exposed internal structure" to me equals "shoot there a lot" even without the added context from cutscenes and the ME universe.

And, the atlas' armor plating...honestly, this is the first I've actually heard of it in four and a half months' playing. When multiple atlases are on the field, the fighting is generally heated enough you're not going to stop and look at how the models change, that is for the limited amount of time atlases aren't obscured by smoke grenades to see it in the first place. The damage just isn't consequential enough to really notice, either, for the fact atlases under sustained fire lose armor quickly enough that major chunks off its health can't readily be attributed to one thing or another, especially in the context you can't see what's going on with it at the time.

With regards to the brute, making its exposed intestines its weak spot would compensate for that nicely, especially if you just remove zoom snap for scoped weapons (which as I said earlier, is something I'd like to see anyway). Its belly is notoriously difficult to hit anyhow, since it protects it with its arm most of the time and its belly is only exposed to fire when it roars or prepares to charge. Otherwise, it's a damned hard shot to pull off. And again, it's something an observant and diligent player would assume to be a weak spot from the onset -- it is exposed internal organs, after all.

[milk ducks]

 as an aside, what do you guys think of the armour plates? (If you weren't aware, you can blow them off to get a bit of a damage bonus - each shoulder, knee and cod piece).

I personally tested this a few months ago, because members of another forum were discussing how much an Atlas is damaged by destroying those sections.  In my tests, I used a completely unmodified N7 Valiant (because of its relatively low damage per shot, and high rate of fire), and it took exactly the same number of shots to kill an Atlas with body shots as it did to kill it while blowing off its shoulders, knees, and cod piece (also, this took considerably longer, because I had to line up all my shots precisely while under fire).  So at that point, I was able to determine that either the Atlas Mech currently does NOT take additional damage when its plates are destroyed, OR the amount of bonus damage inflicted is so small that it doesn't make any difference in actual gameplay.

I have seen others repeat this experiment, with similar results.

Modifié par milk ducks, 25 juillet 2012 - 02:55 .

[Kel Riever]

Serious conversation:

Headshots on bosses, particularly an Atlas, came up last night in the online MP group I was with. My idea was you simply do something like add headshots back in on the Atlas, but multiply the 'hit points' on EVERYTHING some obscene amount, thereby making it imperative to shoot it in the head. Given it isn't that hard anyway, it shouldn't be a problem.

A buddy basically pointed out that it would then be a problem for hitting the Atlas with things like tech power for damage. I didn't get into the huge details of these 10 pages, but my thought on that was to simply say powers 'automatically' hit the head. Figuring most powers are cascading over the entire Atlas anyway, this would be a way to make bullets really need to hit the head to do damage, and not nerf powers. Again, hitting the head on the Atlas isn't that hard, but it would make aiming matter somewhat, and give another reason to take powers, rather than simply hold down the trigger on whatever the current most gross gun in the game is without really even trying to aim.

If this is not a difficult thing to code, you could do the same thing with the vent port in the back. It is not a 'head' per se, but you could consider it as vulnerable as one.  An Atlas would then have 'two heads' one vulnerable real head, and one vulnerable vent port, which would be affected by things like Targetting VI.

Modifié par Kel Riever, 25 juillet 2012 - 03:25 .

[Shoelesscomsonaut]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

soldo9149 wrote...

So it would take longer for use to kill them.

Sort of... it's because they're (generally) easier to headshot and we had no way of controlling the headshot multilplier ona per-creature basis. And the headshot multiplier is goofy (3.5x or something like that?), intentionally - because it's normally somewhat harder to do (on a normal creature).

That said, I think it's something we're interested in - as headshots are always nice... if it was to be done, it would probably have to be implemented in such a way as to give us control over the multiplier per creature though.

What do you folks think would be a fair multiplier?

Atheosis wrote...

Beacuse you guys don't think things through a lot of the time?

K. Guess we won't talk about this then. Later.

Unfortunate you can't control headshot damage on a per creature basis.

It would be interesting to see increased damage mitigation on bosses and a "headshot"/weakspot that could be exploited for increased damage (biotic powers remain unaffected). Could cut down on blind pirahna/typhoon spam, encourage more tactics and give headshot bonuses and gear a purpose.

[dumael]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

That said, I think it's something we're interested in - as headshots are always nice... if it was to be done, it would probably have to be implemented in such a way as to give us control over the multiplier per creature though.

What do you folks think would be a fair multiplier?

If headshots or weak points for bosses are brought back, I suggest a small modifier of 1.5x~. If the modifier or weak point is too big, it trivalizes bosses imho.

[eXeFTW]

For me sniping is my life with it comes to FPS/shooters. As long as there is decent sniper gameplay I make it my own. My Shepard was a sniper in all 3 games and I'm a CQC sniper in arcade FPSs. Why opt for a clumsy weapon when I can destroy an enemy in a split second from up close or across the map?

Even knowing full well that there are no 'weak points' on the boss mobs, I still always try to aim for where they should be. Why? Why not. In the heat of battle it still makes every shot that much more thrilling, and I know I'm better than just taking pop shots at random body parts. Of course I don't have 100% headshot accuracy but that's also one of the main reasons I settle for nothing less.

When I first started MP it was all about making those mailslot shots with my trusty Mantis I. Then I got my Widow and it became shotting through two Guardians with an assault trooper sandwiched in between. Now that I have my Black Widow it's damn near a game of chess. I have 4 moves to play out (if you count energy drain) against a small group of enemies. For me, sniping is an art and every time I look through the scope is another chance to create my magnum opus. It really never gets old

Like many others have stated, even a 1.5x damage bonus on boss headshots (or weak spots, either way works) would be spectacular. It would really make my time on this game that much more enjoyable.

Oh, and a change like this would make me very susceptible to purchasing Bioware points to buff my sniper rifles and their ammo/gear/consumables. Just sayin.

Modifié par eXeFTW, 26 juillet 2012 - 05:46 .

[xgrifter]

It came down to all the nerfers crying about the Infiltrator killing everything do to its cloak damage bonus since the Infiltrator killed everything to fast so it was first nerf the Infiltrator but the where still
killing everything so now bass head shot damage

[BobWalt]

It is not so much a need for a headshot area as just a weak spot so that some finesse is involved. Every enemy should have a weakspot. On the Atlas I think it should be the exhaust port on the back.

[eXeFTW]

Nah uh, we actually got a response on this thread. Not letting it die that easily >=(

[brian_breed]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

soldo9149 wrote...

So it would take longer for use to kill them.

Sort of... it's because they're (generally) easier to headshot and we had no way of controlling the headshot multilplier ona per-creature basis. And the headshot multiplier is goofy (3.5x or something like that?), intentionally - because it's normally somewhat harder to do (on a normal creature).

That said, I think it's something we're interested in - as headshots are always nice... if it was to be done, it would probably have to be implemented in such a way as to give us control over the multiplier per creature though.

What do you folks think would be a fair multiplier?

I'm confused - you already demonstrate the ability to modify headshot damage via gear, equipment, power evolutions, and weapon mods. Is it simply that you can't go below your base value?

As far as balance goes - if you don't want to redo the code, increase the health pool of boss units (a BIT) to compensate for headshot bonuses. As it stands, the headshot evolution is of little use simply because it doesn't buff damage against the enemies who demand it most.