60 réponses à ce sujet

[AresKeith]

War Assests being pointless

[DocGriffin]

AresKeith wrote...

War Assests being pointless

Eh? As much as I think the system could be improved, they do have a point. Take the destroy ending for example, which can vary in destruction based on your war assets to the point of you surviving, or the synthesis ending, which doesn't even become available until a certain number of war assets. If you meant we don't get to see all the war assets, yeah I agree seeing more of them in action was a definite lacking factor.

[sasusori]

chrisutd wrote...

Rachni & CB are the only two I feel any sense of disappointment towards. The others were either auxiliary or were adequately resolved.

I'm curious, beyond this crazed Reunion/blue babies desire, how exactly do you propose choice of LI to bear a greater weight on the overarching plot then what we have now?

I also fail to see how there can be considered to be no significant difference in whether you are Paragon/Renegade in your playthrough.

I'd be interested in background DLC.

first of all i dont think a reunion would be crazy, second, how about we get at least the same amount of dialouge for our LI as tali gave to her father when he died, or liara gives to her mom, or that gay pilot (sorry cant remember his name right now) gave about his husband, is that too much?

the only place i saw a differance is if you picked control you got a slightly different shepard statement, this isnt even close to how much i thought it should have mattered, i thought the ending should have been shaped by this, for instance lets say that conventional victory was possible and shepard could have survived it, a paragon would have been content with the council ruling and doing what it did after the war, this shepard would be given the option to keep his spectre status or retire, a rengade shepard would have either disliked the council or its enmies too much to retire, meaning that his options would have been to stay a spectre and use his ruthless mean against there enemies or to unite the krogan and rachnii and go to war against the council races causing a universal war (setting the stage for ME4)

[sydranark]

DocGriffin wrote...

sydranark wrote...
a cutscene with some hugs, a few bottles of champagne and a goddamn medal wouldn't have hurt. 

If would've for anyone who chose to believe that was Shepard's last breath

okay then a cutscene verifying his death. none of this ambiguous, non-committal bullsh*t

Modifié par sydranark, 25 juillet 2012 - 06:34 .

[DocGriffin]

sydranark wrote...

DocGriffin wrote...

If would've for anyone who chose to believe that was Shepard's last breath

okey then a cutscene verifying his death. none of this ambiguous, non-committal bullsh*t

You're not getting the point, that would then discredit anyone wanting to believe Shepard is alive. The idea is an ambiguous ending allows for both interpretations.

[Richter09_3D]

chrisutd wrote...

Richter09_3D wrote...

chrisutd wrote...
I also fail to see how there can be considered to be no significant difference in whether you are Paragon/Renegade in your playthrough.

I'd say there was significant difference but I'd personally like to see even more

Do you have suggestions?

The Paragon/Renegade system was never really painted as anything other than how your particular Shepard chooses to problem solve.  They ultimately lead the same way.

Also worth considering that there's only so many variables BW can implement before it becomes unattainable.  They already have a tremendous amount as is.

It's true, they have put in a lot of content. I just wanted the story itself to be more affected by this i.e. both paragon and renegade don't lead to the same things happening - the entire storyline changes depending. I know the system affects a lot already and this would budget-wise be insane but I was just hoping that with it being the final game, they might have put more effort into varying choices (including others mentioned above) so possibly missions change completely depending on them. This is less of a complaint than me voicing how Bioware let down my unrealistically high expectations.

All the same I liked ME3

[sydranark]

DocGriffin wrote...

sydranark wrote...

DocGriffin wrote...
If would've for anyone who chose to believe that was Shepard's last breath

okey then a cutscene verifying his death. none of this ambiguous, non-committal bullsh*t

You're not getting the point, that would then discredit anyone wanting to believe Shepard is alive. The idea is an ambiguous ending allows for both interpretations.

no I know exactly what you're trying to get at. I'm trying to point out that this "open to interpretations" ending is just a cop out. Its an excuse for them to not write proper endings to the destroy option. 

consider the DA:Origins story. You sleep w/ morrigan, you survive; you don't, you die. They could have easily implemented some sort of plot device that would have allowed Shep to either die a martyr or survive and live as a hero. 

They didn't. They got lazy and did... whatever the hell they did instead. 

Modifié par sydranark, 25 juillet 2012 - 06:39 .

[DocGriffin]

sydranark wrote...

no I know exactly what you're trying to get at. I'm trying to point out that this "open to interpretations" ending is just a cop out. Its an excuse for them to not write proper endings to the destroy option. 

They didn't. They got lazy and did... whatever the hell they did instead. 

No I agree, it was done retrospectively and without any real care. The possibility of Shepard even dying was only recently brought up by BioWare. I'm not saying I particularly care for the ending, but it is what it is.

[JimTasty]

I really wish that in ME1 Jenkins didn't die! And if you put Wrex's family armor on him he would live!

[drinkurmilk]

sasusori wrote...

chrisutd wrote...

Rachni & CB are the only two I feel any sense of disappointment towards. The others were either auxiliary or were adequately resolved.

I'm curious, beyond this crazed Reunion/blue babies desire, how exactly do you propose choice of LI to bear a greater weight on the overarching plot then what we have now?

I also fail to see how there can be considered to be no significant difference in whether you are Paragon/Renegade in your playthrough.

I'd be interested in background DLC.

first of all i dont think a reunion would be crazy, second, how about we get at least the same amount of dialouge for our LI as tali gave to her father when he died, or liara gives to her mom, or that gay pilot (sorry cant remember his name right now) gave about his husband, is that too much?

the only place i saw a differance is if you picked control you got a slightly different shepard statement, this isnt even close to how much i thought it should have mattered, i thought the ending should have been shaped by this, for instance lets say that conventional victory was possible and shepard could have survived it, a paragon would have been content with the council ruling and doing what it did after the war, this shepard would be given the option to keep his spectre status or retire, a rengade shepard would have either disliked the council or its enmies too much to retire, meaning that his options would have been to stay a spectre and use his ruthless mean against there enemies or to unite the krogan and rachnii and go to war against the council races causing a universal war (setting the stage for ME4)

My issue as far as the LI fascination goes is these people seem to forget that not everyone actually has a LI, already you are alienating a portion of players.  Non-LIs should not be deprived of content, moreso then they already do.  It just so happens some of the most touching scenes in the game are LI orientated, some players miss out on them entirely.  I have no problem with LIs per se (I romanced Miranda) but it needs to be handled fairly, I don't know that shaping an entire DLC around the concept of space love will do that.

Some of your suggestions are good, but we knew a long time ago that conventional victory was not possible.  I do not understand anyone that says otherwise and would welcome evidence to the contrary.  There is nothing to say that what you mentioned can't be true for those who survived the ending - however given that only a portion of players will, it seems unreasonable to expect that amount of post-ending content to be shown, given that it will not be accessible to all.

The Control ending shined in terms of reflecting morality.  Made easy by the simple fact Shepard voiced this epilogue, you can detect directly their intonation and inflection.  I'd agree this was welcome and we could've used more of this personality shining throughin places, but I'd suggest not to look exclusively at the ending in this regard.  There are obvious limits to what BW can do to reflect your Shepard in the closing scenes, especially considering (with the exception of control) we do not see or hear Shepard again.

There is plenty of instances in the three games which are directly reactive to Paragon/Renegade scores in my opinion.

[v TricKy v]

Dont seeing my war assets(Salarian Stealth Dreadnoughts, Kwunu and Merc groups anyone?)

Also the decision to make an all-human council at the end of ME1

[Kataphrut94]

I honestly can't think of ten major choices that bothered me. I suppose the Collector Base was a bit of a cop-out but they at least tried to justify it. That and Kasumi's greybox being used even if you told her to get rid of it, but I guess that's a case of the show having to go on.

A lot of people mention the rachni, but I disagree with that one. It would be poor gameplay design for them to lock out an entire side mission based on a previous choice, so they needed to come up with a way to let both sides play that level. Cloning already exists in the Mass Effect, it's not out of character for the Reapers and the choice to save the queen or Arlakh company actually becomes a lot easier if you killed the original.

[Pitznik]

sasusori wrote...

list your top ten choices that didnt matter but should have, here are mine numbered by importance

1. collector base
2. rachnii
3. whether you were renegade or paragon
4. genophage
5. geth/qurians
6. cerebrus/alliance (ME2 missions)
7. love interest
8. squad mates
9. shadow broker
10. Aria missions

1. Agreed.
2. In my game with dead Rachni I got Breeder instead of real Queen, I saved it, and it betrayed me. Is that the same with real Queen? No? That it mattered - different story, different effect.
3. That's weird, my paragon Shepard has different lines and personality than my Renegade Shepard, maybe your game is bugged?
4. Again, I could either cure the genophage, or deceive the Krogan. I could either go with Mordin's plan, kill him or convince him to drop the idea.  Pretty different outcomes.
5. In my game I could let Quarians kill Geth, let Geth kill Quarians, or convince them that peace is the best option.
6. ?
7. In my game I romanced Jack, she kissed me in Grissom and we had a date in Purgatory after. Have you romanced someone else and your game forced you to another romance?
8. My squadmates have different sets of powers and different dialogue.
9. I got a little bonus in the beginning for completing LotSB. Pretty neat for something that happened in different game.
10. I completed those, I got experience and war assets, also more gameplay.

Your game must be really bugged if your choices didn't matter. Have you tried reinstalling it?

[sasusori]

chrisutd wrote...

sasusori wrote...

chrisutd wrote...

Rachni & CB are the only two I feel any sense of disappointment towards. The others were either auxiliary or were adequately resolved.

I'm curious, beyond this crazed Reunion/blue babies desire, how exactly do you propose choice of LI to bear a greater weight on the overarching plot then what we have now?

I also fail to see how there can be considered to be no significant difference in whether you are Paragon/Renegade in your playthrough.

I'd be interested in background DLC.

first of all i dont think a reunion would be crazy, second, how about we get at least the same amount of dialouge for our LI as tali gave to her father when he died, or liara gives to her mom, or that gay pilot (sorry cant remember his name right now) gave about his husband, is that too much?

the only place i saw a differance is if you picked control you got a slightly different shepard statement, this isnt even close to how much i thought it should have mattered, i thought the ending should have been shaped by this, for instance lets say that conventional victory was possible and shepard could have survived it, a paragon would have been content with the council ruling and doing what it did after the war, this shepard would be given the option to keep his spectre status or retire, a rengade shepard would have either disliked the council or its enmies too much to retire, meaning that his options would have been to stay a spectre and use his ruthless mean against there enemies or to unite the krogan and rachnii and go to war against the council races causing a universal war (setting the stage for ME4)

My issue as far as the LI fascination goes is these people seem to forget that not everyone actually has a LI, already you are alienating a portion of players.  Non-LIs should not be deprived of content, moreso then they already do.  It just so happens some of the most touching scenes in the game are LI orientated, some players miss out on them entirely.  I have no problem with LIs per se (I romanced Miranda) but it needs to be handled fairly, I don't know that shaping an entire DLC around the concept of space love will do that.

Some of your suggestions are good, but we knew a long time ago that conventional victory was not possible.  I do not understand anyone that says otherwise and would welcome evidence to the contrary.  There is nothing to say that what you mentioned can't be true for those who survived the ending - however given that only a portion of players will, it seems unreasonable to expect that amount of post-ending content to be shown, given that it will not be accessible to all.

The Control ending shined in terms of reflecting morality.  Made easy by the simple fact Shepard voiced this epilogue, you can detect directly their intonation and inflection.  I'd agree this was welcome and we could've used more of this personality shining throughin places, but I'd suggest not to look exclusively at the ending in this regard.  There are obvious limits to what BW can do to reflect your Shepard in the closing scenes, especially considering (with the exception of control) we do not see or hear Shepard again.

There is plenty of instances in the three games which are directly reactive to Paragon/Renegade scores in my opinion.

funny thing is i agree with alot of what you said, i agree that some people who dont have a LI should be treated to something, my view on this has been, that those who dont have a LI usually dont have it for one of two reasons, either they want a LI that not available (aria, samara, kasumi ...) or they dont want an LI because they wanted an unattainble, bioware could have made it so that you could persue one of the unattainbles only if you had no LI in all three games, for those that didnt have an LI because they didnt want one, it could show shepard alone in his thoughts (sort of like the ending scene of conan the destoryer, i always loved that scene)

as for convential victory, this could have been done much in the same way the geth were being wiped out by the quarians, we could have had something similiar that interfered with the way reapers sheilds worked, in ME 1 you can see that with sheilds down a reaper isnt really too fearsome a foe, we could have got this info on how to do this from either the geth after we saved them, or quarians after they studied the geth remains (remember they were upgraded with reaper tech) or cerbrus from collector base

that just leaves the bioware coding thing, while i understand that they couldnt create and ending for every possible situation, it doesnt mean they had to pigeon holes us in to one of three endings, and control aside (i liked renegade shepard here), they could have easily scrapped multiplayer and built more endings based on choices, i wouldnt have even been mad if they charged us for extra ending, that is something i would pay for, if they started with say five and then charged for an extra five, i would have bought them all as long as they were done properly, i understand that its alot of work, but if bioware was going to pigeon hole us like this then why give us choices in the first place, i didnt play ME1 and ME2 six times each for this, they could have done a god of war game that i beat once and got one ending out of it and i would have been happy, now all i keep thinking about is all the time i wasted with my different playthoughs, i didnt even mind the ending when i first saw it, i just thought, "man i just destroyed the universe by blowing up the mass relies, to kill the reapers, im glad my crew survived i cant believe i messed up soo bad with my cannon shep, im gonna look up what i did wrong on the internet"

[xsdob]

Nothing really comes to mind, probably nothing that could make a list of 10 out of.

About the only thing that bothered me was the collector base, everything else I was okay with. Hell, to me the tonal shift in the rachni queen and her betrayal or aid in ME3 is enough of an impact of my choice.

[Applepie_Svk]

Taboo-XX wrote...

HA HA HA.

I had a reunion and everything.

Did I missed something or it´s only your headcannon ? 
Huh these days paying for own wild imaginations....

to OP: Agreed lot of these choices which should matter was just blew to hell... I would add:
1.Destiny Ascension
2. Morinth
3. Feros´s survivors
4. Council 

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 25 juillet 2012 - 07:36 .

[xsdob]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

HA HA HA.

I had a reunion and everything.

Did I missed something or it´s only your headcannon ? 
Huh these days paying for own wild imaginations....

Do you not like books? they make you do stuff like that all the time.

Also, please seriously consider if this post made you mad, that you are responding to a person who just insinuated that not liking open to interpretation things is akin to not reading.

Think carefully and just walk away.

Modifié par xsdob, 25 juillet 2012 - 07:37 .

[Applepie_Svk]

xsdob wrote...


Do you not like books? they make you do stuff like that all the time.

Don´t try to twist it ...

[Volc19]

1- Rachni
2- Collector Base
3- New Council/The Human Council that never was
4- Giving Legion to Cerberus
5- Morinth
6- Rewriting or killing the Heretics (or not even doing the mission)
7- Tali's exile
8- Sidonis
9- Grunt's loyalty (Why would Wrex/Wreav put Grunt in charge of an entire unit if he never took the Rite?)
10- Spectre status

[xsdob]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

xsdob wrote...


Do you not like books? they make you do stuff like that all the time.

Don´t try to twist it ...

I already have.

[Archonsg]

sydranark wrote...

DocGriffin wrote...

sydranark wrote...

DocGriffin wrote...If would've for anyone who chose to believe that was Shepard's last breath

okey then a cutscene verifying his death. none of this ambiguous, non-committal bullsh*t

You're not getting the point, that would then discredit anyone wanting to believe Shepard is alive. The idea is an ambiguous ending allows for both interpretations.

no I know exactly what you're trying to get at. I'm trying to point out that this "open to interpretations" ending is just a cop out. Its an excuse for them to not write proper endings to the destroy option. consider the DA:Origins story. You sleep w/ morrigan, you survive; you don't, you die. They could have easily implemented some sort of plot device that would have allowed Shep to either die a martyr or survive and live as a hero. They didn't. They got lazy and did... whatever the hell they did instead. 

Or you get Alistair / Logan to sleep with Morrigan, if you wanted to stay true to your LI.





Or, have Logan take the kling blow.


The fact is they gave you a choice.

[sasusori]

Pitznik wrote...

sasusori wrote...

list your top ten choices that didnt matter but should have, here are mine numbered by importance

1. collector base
2. rachnii
3. whether you were renegade or paragon
4. genophage
5. geth/qurians
6. cerebrus/alliance (ME2 missions)
7. love interest
8. squad mates
9. shadow broker
10. Aria missions

1. Agreed.
2. In my game with dead Rachni I got Breeder instead of real Queen, I saved it, and it betrayed me. Is that the same with real Queen? No? That it mattered - different story, different effect.
3. That's weird, my paragon Shepard has different lines and personality than my Renegade Shepard, maybe your game is bugged?
4. Again, I could either cure the genophage, or deceive the Krogan. I could either go with Mordin's plan, kill him or convince him to drop the idea.  Pretty different outcomes.
5. In my game I could let Quarians kill Geth, let Geth kill Quarians, or convince them that peace is the best option.
6. ?
7. In my game I romanced Jack, she kissed me in Grissom and we had a date in Purgatory after. Have you romanced someone else and your game forced you to another romance?
8. My squadmates have different sets of powers and different dialogue.
9. I got a little bonus in the beginning for completing LotSB. Pretty neat for something that happened in different game.
10. I completed those, I got experience and war assets, also more gameplay.

Your game must be really bugged if your choices didn't matter. Have you tried reinstalling it?

1. agreed
2. 100 war assets, omg how could i have overlooked such a big differance
3. you mean being renagade or pargon actually changed the endings available to you, i had the choices of synthesis, control, destroy or refuse, they were available to both renagade and my paragon shep, if you had differant options based on your allignment then mybe my game is bugged
4. agains did curing or keeping the genophage actually changed the endings available
to you, i had the choices of synthesis, control, destroy or refuse,
they were available to no matter what i didn with krogans, if you had
differant options based on what you did then mybe my game is bugged
5. did this change the endings availble to you?
6. as in being able to work for the one you want or doing missions for both
7. did a single word of dialouge get changed in the ending because of your LI
8. did which squadmates got killed or saved change the avaliable endings for you or are they still all the same no matter what you did prior
9. did this change the endings availble to you?
10. did this change the endings availble to you?

if this changed the available endings for you, then mybe my games is bugged, if not the i maintain that in the end, the choices didnt (or at best barely) matter(ed)

[drinkurmilk]

sasusori wrote...

funny thing is i agree with alot of what you said, i agree that some people who dont have a LI should be treated to something, my view on this has been, that those who dont have a LI usually dont have it for one of two reasons, either they want a LI that not available (aria, samara, kasumi ...) or they dont want an LI because they wanted an unattainble, bioware could have made it so that you could persue one of the unattainbles only if you had no LI in all three games, for those that didnt have an LI because they didnt want one, it could show shepard alone in his thoughts (sort of like the ending scene of conan the destoryer, i always loved that scene)

as for convential victory, this could have been done much in the same way the geth were being wiped out by the quarians, we could have had something similiar that interfered with the way reapers sheilds worked, in ME 1 you can see that with sheilds down a reaper isnt really too fearsome a foe, we could have got this info on how to do this from either the geth after we saved them, or quarians after they studied the geth remains (remember they were upgraded with reaper tech) or cerbrus from collector base

that just leaves the bioware coding thing, while i understand that they couldnt create and ending for every possible situation, it doesnt mean they had to pigeon holes us in to one of three endings, and control aside (i liked renegade shepard here), they could have easily scrapped multiplayer and built more endings based on choices, i wouldnt have even been mad if they charged us for extra ending, that is something i would pay for, if they started with say five and then charged for an extra five, i would have bought them all as long as they were done properly, i understand that its alot of work, but if bioware was going to pigeon hole us like this then why give us choices in the first place, i didnt play ME1 and ME2 six times each for this, they could have done a god of war game that i beat once and got one ending out of it and i would have been happy, now all i keep thinking about is all the time i wasted with my different playthoughs, i didnt even mind the ending when i first saw it, i just thought, "man i just destroyed the universe by blowing up the mass relies, to kill the reapers, im glad my crew survived i cant believe i messed up soo bad with my cannon shep, im gonna look up what i did wrong on the internet"

Are you suggesting Bioware release a DLC with Shepard on their lonesome, having a bit of a ponder? I'm not sure how well that will sell.

I will refrain from entering into the conventional victory debate.  I disagree strongly with the principle of some weapon-discovering twist whereby all the Reaper capital ships turn into being just any other enemy.  I also find it ironic that many of those that complain about this "last minute plot device!11!1!" are those that advocate victory by conventional means, even if it involves discovering something game-changing in the final game.  Does not compute.

Though I initially strongly resented the idea of MP, I've come round to it.  It is inevitable that such a popular game try to implement MP.  I actually quite enjoy it, make of it what you will.  I am sorry that you subscribe to this "nothing mattered in the end" theory and that you feel you have wasted your time on the series.

I do not know what else to say.  Hopefully there is something else out there that better suits your needs. 

[Pitznik]

sasusori wrote...

2. 100 war assets, omg how could i have overlooked such a big differance

Not the war assets. It changed the personality (Queen is calm, Breeder is rather crazy and scary). It is not about war assets, but about different experience.

sasusori wrote...
3. you mean being renagade or pargon actually changed the endings available to you, i had the choices of synthesis, control, destroy or refuse, they were available to both renagade and my paragon shep, if you had differant options based on your allignment then mybe my game is bugged

No, it didn't change the ending, but your OP doesn't mention the ending. It changed the whole game.

sasusori wrote...
4. agains did curing or keeping the genophage actually changed the endings available
to you, i had the choices of synthesis, control, destroy or refuse,
they were available to no matter what i didn with krogans, if you had
differant options based on what you did then mybe my game is bugged

Again, while it didn't change the ending, it had huge impact on Krogan and Salarian people, and changed the galaxy pretty much. Not everything is about the Reapers and the ending.

sasusori wrote...
5. did this change the endings availble to you?

Nope!

sasusori wrote...
6. as in being able to work for the one you want or doing missions for both

I don't think working for Cerberus against the Alliance would make any sense. Shepards was always against the Reapers, no matter if in colors of Cerberus or Allaince.

sasusori wrote...
7. did a single word of dialouge get changed in the ending because of your LI

Why would it? Shepard's personal life =/= fate of the galaxy

sasusori wrote...
8. did which squadmates got killed or saved change the avaliable endings for you or are they still all the same no matter what you did prior

Again, why would it?

sasusori wrote...
9. did this change the endings availble to you?
10. did this change the endings availble to you?

No.

sasusori wrote...
if this changed the available endings for you, then mybe my games is bugged, if not the i maintain that in the end, the choices didnt (or at best barely) matter(ed)

Did those choices matter? Yes, most of them very much did. They changed the overall experience and outcome of many important plotlines.

Did they affect the ending directly? Nope, only through war assets, ie not really.

But your OP was about "choices that didn't matter" not about "choices that didn't affect the ending". Two different things.

[Jassu1979]

Did anybody mention saving the council?
In ME2, it was more than hinted that this decision made quite a profound difference as far as the balance of power within the Citadel was concerned, establishing that the Human Alliance assumes leadership if you let the original councillors die.
In ME3, the difference is barely discernible any longer, to the point where it actually does not matter at all.