201 réponses à ce sujet

[BoomDynamite]

IronRush wrote...

BoomDynamite wrote...

IronRush wrote...

BoomDynamite wrote...

The Widow is fine. I'd give the Kishock a 5% buff in damage, and the Javelin a SG Penetration. That, however, would require a patch.

Widow is fine? How Boom? All one shot is suffering problem these days.
Today a sniper like that is brutal outscored by a AR on Gold or Platinum.

Reload Cancelling saves the Widow. The Javelin, however, is still hurt because of that charge time.

I cant agree Boom. Save is a very strong word on this case. A little less bad maybe.
To me Javelin weight is a problem also. It hurts a lot tactical cloak.

The Javelin could use a 5% DMG buff, a slight SG penetration (Would need a patch), and a weight of [2.75 - 2.25]

[IronRush]

GeneralElectric wrote...

Sp3c7eR wrote...

Platinum's protection regeneration mechanic makes it almost impossible for snipers to do enough damage to kill before shields/barriers are back up.

This is another excellent point.

We, sniper lovers, need a solution. Make our beloved weapons used again.

[RNG God]

<If collision= Headshot,
Ignoreshieldgate
Else, Lol Matrix bullet stop>

[Rolenka]

Give all bolt-action sniper rifles a bleed effect to prevent shields from recharging for at least 15 seconds.

[Transairion]

Wait so basically using a single-shot sniper on higher difficulties is impossible without reloading cancelling?

.... are we balacing around using reload-cancelling now, what about us who reload... yaknow, normally?

[Sihmm]

Asebstos wrote...

Anyway, what makes single shot snipers not great on Platinum isn't the damage they do, its the pure volume of enemies that are pretty much always in your face. Brutes, Banshees, Hunters, and Phantoms all at once means that you don't need precision so much as you need weight of fire. To make a clumsy analogy, the enemies on Platinum are like enemy soldiers charging at a trench in WW1. You want machine guns and artillery on your side, accuracy be damned, not some dude hanging back shooting one person at a time. If there were fewer, tougher enemies (that weren't always up in your face) then snipers would be more viable.

Edit: Basically its the structure of Platinum that makes the SRs feel lackluster, not the SRs themselves. Buffing SRs so that they can compete on Plat with the Shotguns/Harrier/Typhoon would mean that they could easily be over the top on lower, less hectic difficulties.

I disagree actually.  The throughput of a reload-cancelled single shot rifle on Platinum is pretty good, arguably better at long ranges against mooks than any of the other "super" weapons.  The problem is simply one of damage: it falls off too sharply against medium and heavy targets.  It's ironic that the big anti-materiel rifles struggle most against the biggest targets in the game while shotguns and assault rifles are shredding them.  And on those targets shieldgate is pretty much not the issue, so I disagree that making them ignore shieldgate would fix them.

Sniping has a high skillcap, and the problem is that once you've managed to work with all the other problems of using single-shot weapon that weighs more than a small passenger jet, you've still got to deal with a very low reward for your effort.

Seeing as there's pretty much no chance of the other issues with single shot sniping being changed - they're basically fundamental game design choices - to me the answer is simply making the damage worthwhile.

[Klokos]

Rolenka wrote...

Give all bolt-action sniper rifles a bleed effect to prevent shields from recharging for at least 15 seconds.

 They're not bolt-action !

[Gamemako]

megabeast37215 wrote...

Try your Javelin on a GI specced for max damage everywhere, put AP rounds on it.. and shoot armored targets. I LITERALLY just got done doing this... one shot Ravagers, one shot Brutes, 2 shot Banshee/Atlas Armor. You need your other team members to be the mook killers... but that guy is the designated boss killer. I was amazed at the damage to the Banshee armor... it's more than half.

But yeah other than that... they need love... especially the Kishock.

You LITERALLY lie. With a Javelin X, you get a base 1288.1 damage. Include a 1.25x multi from TC and 1.2x from PM and you're claiming a 323% total damage bonus to kill a Ravager, which is the weakest opponent you claim to one-shot. That cannot be achieved; a Gethfiltrator maxes out at 230%. Even adding a Justicar's offensive bubble will not provide you with enough of a bonus to kill a Ravager in one shot. Ravagers and Brutes will each take two, Banshees and Primes will take 3 for the armor alone, and Atlas Mechs will take 4 for the armor alone.

Snipers need to ignore at least 50% of the shield-gate reduction, and they need a damage buff all around (Krysae excepted; it's not a sniper rifle, it's a rocket launcher). Javelin in particular needs a massive buff, to the tune of 50%. Slow fire rate, hard to aim due to charge-up, and single-shot? Why would you ever want that?

[nick91_99]

with reload cancel on platinum it took me a good 15 minutes to kill 1 banshee with the widow x SOLO! (the rest of my team went down) I took out about 8-10 goons first then ran from the banshee, pop, reload pop run, pop reload pop run...i had no missles and she kept regenerating her shields and obviously chasing me. It was pretty pathetic. In total killing less than a dozen guys took 20 minutes alone with the widow x. I kept apologizing to the rest of my team who were patiently waiting for the rd to end.

It was fun as **** for me but i would imagine probably not for the people waiting.

Modifié par nick91_99, 25 juillet 2012 - 04:13 .

[Miniditka77]

Complaining about shield gate disregards the designed purpose of single-shot snipers.  As much as I like the "one shot one kill" sniper game, that isn't part of this game (at least not on Gold), and that's intentional.  If you want to take out mooks, you should be using the Valiant, Viper, BW, Raptor, Krysae, etc.  The single-shot snipers are made to take out ARMOR.  They get almost no DR from armor, and the tactical cloak damage bonuses give these sniper rifles ridiculous single-shot damage. 

A single shot from a Claymore X has a 25% DR from armor on Gold, while the Widow X and Javelin X both have less than 5% damage reduction (without mods and damage bonuses).  An unmodded Javelin X with TC damage bonuses alone does over 2200 EDIT: over 2800 damage to armor.  If you're using one of those guns, your job is to take down armored enemies while your teammates take down the smaller enemies. 

Of course, that's with the current game design.  If you take away shield gate for weapons like the Javelin, you are taking these weapons out of their designed roles and making them more universally usable.  I'm not saying that's a bad thing, and I do like the idea.  But from what I've seen, Bioware seems to like the idea of specialization and roles for different weapons and classes - so I don't see them changing it any time soon.

Modifié par Miniditka77, 25 juillet 2012 - 06:19 .

[Steppdaddy2]

+1 I never see snipers any more :-(

[Sihmm]

Gamemako wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...

Try your Javelin on a GI specced for max damage everywhere, put AP rounds on it.. and shoot armored targets. I LITERALLY just got done doing this... one shot Ravagers, one shot Brutes, 2 shot Banshee/Atlas Armor. You need your other team members to be the mook killers... but that guy is the designated boss killer. I was amazed at the damage to the Banshee armor... it's more than half.

But yeah other than that... they need love... especially the Kishock.

You LITERALLY lie. With a Javelin X, you get a base 1288.1 damage. Include a 1.25x multi from TC and 1.2x from PM and you're claiming a 323% total damage bonus to kill a Ravager, which is the weakest opponent you claim to one-shot. That cannot be achieved; a Gethfiltrator maxes out at 230%. Even adding a Justicar's offensive bubble will not provide you with enough of a bonus to kill a Ravager in one shot. Ravagers and Brutes will each take two, Banshees and Primes will take 3 for the armor alone, and Atlas Mechs will take 4 for the armor alone.

Snipers need to ignore at least 50% of the shield-gate reduction, and they need a damage buff all around (Krysae excepted; it's not a sniper rifle, it's a rocket launcher). Javelin in particular needs a massive buff, to the tune of 50%. Slow fire rate, hard to aim due to charge-up, and single-shot? Why would you ever want that?

Your math is off, a fully damage specced GI with a Javelin X can do enough damage to one-shot a Ravager (including proxy mine damage + debuff) with maximum level equipment and ammo on Gold.  Not on Platinum though, and not Brutes either.
Anyway, why would you want to use the Javelin?  Simple: when you fire it, it goes "whoop".

[IronRush]

Gamemako wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...

Try your Javelin on a GI specced for max damage everywhere, put AP rounds on it.. and shoot armored targets. I LITERALLY just got done doing this... one shot Ravagers, one shot Brutes, 2 shot Banshee/Atlas Armor. You need your other team members to be the mook killers... but that guy is the designated boss killer. I was amazed at the damage to the Banshee armor... it's more than half.

But yeah other than that... they need love... especially the Kishock.

You LITERALLY lie. With a Javelin X, you get a base 1288.1 damage. Include a 1.25x multi from TC and 1.2x from PM and you're claiming a 323% total damage bonus to kill a Ravager, which is the weakest opponent you claim to one-shot. That cannot be achieved; a Gethfiltrator maxes out at 230%. Even adding a Justicar's offensive bubble will not provide you with enough of a bonus to kill a Ravager in one shot. Ravagers and Brutes will each take two, Banshees and Primes will take 3 for the armor alone, and Atlas Mechs will take 4 for the armor alone.

Snipers need to ignore at least 50% of the shield-gate reduction, and they need a damage buff all around (Krysae excepted; it's not a sniper rifle, it's a rocket launcher). Javelin in particular needs a massive buff, to the tune of 50%. Slow fire rate, hard to aim due to charge-up, and single-shot? Why would you ever want that?

Yes, I said.

Krysae isnt an one bullet sniper.

I am waiting Derek Hollan, Eric Fagnan and Bioware participating in this topic.

[Sihmm]

Miniditka77 wrote...

Complaining about shield gate disregards the designed purpose of single-shot snipers.  As much as I like the "one shot one kill" sniper game, that isn't part of this game (at least not on Gold), and that's intentional.  If you want to take out mooks, you should be using the Valiant, Viper, BW, Raptor, Krysae, etc.  The single-shot snipers are made to take out ARMOR.  They get almost no DR from armor, and the tactical cloak damage bonuses give these sniper rifles ridiculous single-shot damage.

I agree in principle, but of course in practice this isn't how it works out.  The single shots become pretty decent mook-slayers with good aim or a reliable stagger (sabo, ED, proxy), but are downright bad against big targets compared to the go-to shotguns, UR ARs and even the Hurricane.

As shieldgate and limited HP pools prevent the single-shot rifles from taking any fewer than 2 hits to kill a small enemy, there should be no problem with increasing their damage-per-shot to make them more desirable against big targets.

[IronRush]

Sihmm wrote...

Miniditka77 wrote...

Complaining about shield gate disregards the designed purpose of single-shot snipers.  As much as I like the "one shot one kill" sniper game, that isn't part of this game (at least not on Gold), and that's intentional.  If you want to take out mooks, you should be using the Valiant, Viper, BW, Raptor, Krysae, etc.  The single-shot snipers are made to take out ARMOR.  They get almost no DR from armor, and the tactical cloak damage bonuses give these sniper rifles ridiculous single-shot damage.

I agree in principle, but of course in practice this isn't how it works out.  The single shots become pretty decent mook-slayers with good aim or a reliable stagger (sabo, ED, proxy), but are downright bad against big targets compared to the go-to shotguns, UR ARs and even the Hurricane.

As shieldgate and limited HP pools prevent the single-shot rifles from taking any fewer than 2 hits to kill a small enemy, there should be no problem with increasing their damage-per-shot to make them more desirable against big targets.

Good point also.
I was thinking here...
Together Tactical Cloak evo 6 sniper damage could have 10, 20% shield gate bypass. Would be much more interesting. Besides that, damage buff and fast reload times could help.

[A Wild Snorlax]

Widow, Javelin and black widow all need significant buffs. They are lacking on gold and on platinum they are just terrible.

I have a black widow X and it's just mediocre. It's supposed to be the best sniper, it's an ultra rare, and infiltrators are supposed to be good with snipers. Buff it so it can actually compare to RARE shotguns on infiltrators, at the moment it's totally outclassed by the piranha/claymore/GPS, and a few others too.

While they are at it they should also buff energy drain, this would be an indirect buff to single shot snipers.

Modifié par A Wild Snorlax, 25 juillet 2012 - 04:29 .

[Kel Riever]

I find that I am pretty unimpressed with having to shoot an engineering turret twice on Gold to take it out with a maxed buffed, tactical cloak fired, single shot sniper rifle, because of shieldgate. Given that right now boss monsters have no headshots, I don't really see why it is a problem to have single shot snipers avoid shieldgate, other than it might be difficult to do code-wise, and I have no idea about that.

[Elite3141]

IronRush wrote...

kevchy wrote...

I'm waiting for the sniper buffs... for now I'm a full-time shotgun infiltrator.

That is my whole point Kev...
I want my beloved snipers balanced to the show. I refuse to use shotguns all the time on my Infiltrators.

I agree.

They should at least make headshots ignore the shieldgate, or get a reduced shieldgate. Right now there is no reason to use a single-shot sniper rifle on Gold or Platinum because semi-automatics can do everything better.

[A Wild Snorlax]

Also, at the moment single shot snipers are ineffective for killing troopers, and they are bad at killing armor compared to shot guns, their AP abilities are irrelevant, they are not efective for killin armor compared to shotguns and for examlple the harrier with ap ammo. Semi autos like the black widow are at least decent for killing small units (on gold, not on platinum), allthough that one is also outclassed against big targets now.

[UnknownMercenary]

Giving sniper rifles the same shield gate reduction on Gold that they have on Silver (75% instead of 100%) would help greatly, but single shot rifles would still lack damage output against large targets.

[IronRush]

UnknownMercenary wrote...

Giving sniper rifles the same shield gate reduction on Gold that they have on Silver (75% instead of 100%) would help greatly, but single shot rifles would still lack damage output against large targets.

Not so much if they have fast reload times...

[Miniditka77]

Sihmm wrote...

I agree in principle, but of course in practice this isn't how it works out.  The single shots become pretty decent mook-slayers with good aim or a reliable stagger (sabo, ED, proxy), but are downright bad against big targets compared to the go-to shotguns, UR ARs and even the Hurricane.

As shieldgate and limited HP pools prevent the single-shot rifles from taking any fewer than 2 hits to kill a small enemy, there should be no problem with increasing their damage-per-shot to make them more desirable against big targets.

I agree that increasing damage per shot would be something that Bioware might potentially do, because it would fit into the assigned "roles" of these weapons.  The people who are taking out armor with Pihranas, Claymores, Harriers, Typhoons, etc. are often doing it with the use of mods and ammo, and those mods and ammo cause a proportionally bigger buff to the performance of those weapons than they do for the single-shot snipers.  Without these add-ons, those weapons aren't nearly as good against armor.  Still, I understand that you can't pretend those add-ons don't exist.  Other than changing the mechanics of how AP ammo works, the only solution is increasing the base damage of the single shot snipers.

[ClockworkSpectre]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Make them ignore the shieldgate.

this, with a little adjustment.

make the javelin completely ignore shield gate, the widow 50%, and maybe 20% for the mantis.

or have increasing amounts of gate ignored as the weapons level up.

Modifié par ClockworkSpectre, 25 juillet 2012 - 04:39 .

[A Wild Snorlax]

Black widow X should be able to comapre to the best shotguns when used on an infiltrator, especially onsidering it's trash on normal classes. At the moment it's not even in the same league as the piranha/GPS/claymore and using it feels like gimping yourself in a major way.

Widow and javelin should have claymore-esque damage. Widow a little lower, but a lot higher than what it has now. Javelin should at least do the same if not more damage. It has a lower rate of fire than the claymore and is a lot harder to aim.

Modifié par A Wild Snorlax, 25 juillet 2012 - 04:42 .

[ClockworkSpectre]

No shotgun should be better than a sniper rifle on infiltrator, maybe on par but never better. Infiltrator since ME1 has been a sniper class.