201 réponses à ce sujet

[Pedactor]

Miniditka77 wrote...

Complaining about shield gate disregards the designed purpose of single-shot snipers.  As much as I like the "one shot one kill" sniper game, that isn't part of this game (at least not on Gold), and that's intentional.  If you want to take out mooks, you should be using the Valiant, Viper, BW, Raptor, Krysae, etc.  The single-shot snipers are made to take out ARMOR.  They get almost no DR from armor, and the tactical cloak damage bonuses give these sniper rifles ridiculous single-shot damage. 

A single shot from a Claymore X has a 25% DR from armor on Gold, while the Widow X and Javelin X both have less than 5% damage reduction (without mods and damage bonuses).  An unmodded Javelin X with TC damage bonuses alone does over 2200 damage to armor.  If you're using one of those guns, your job is to take down armored enemies while your teammates take down the smaller enemies. 

Of course, that's with the current game design.  If you take away shield gate for weapons like the Javelin, you are taking these weapons out of their designed roles and making them more universally usable.  I'm not saying that's a bad thing, and I do like the idea.  But from what I've seen, Bioware seems to like the idea of specialization and roles for different weapons and classes - so I don't see them changing it any time soon.

Yes but that Armor reduction on effectively equates to a mod slot in the Javelin's favor or you put on Armor Piercing Ammunition and still go Smart Choke and Extended Barrel.

This is a good point, but I still think that the Shield gating mechanic, at the very least, should be bypassed by the Javelin because of what you give up to use it, it's Ultra-Rare status, it's low spare ammunition capacity, medium-to-long reload time, and most importantly:

Its charge up mechanic.  By itself that should make this gun and the Kishok the highest power single shot SR's there are. 

[A Wild Snorlax]

ClockworkSpectre wrote...

No shotgun should be better than a sniper rifle on infiltrator, maybe on par but never better. Infiltrator since ME1 has been a sniper class.

Sadly bioware's response to this will probably be nerfing shotguns rather than buffing snipers. The amunt of weapon buffs significant enough to actually make a noticable difference since the game came out has not been many, especially considering the amount of lackluster guns.

[Pedactor]

Sihmm wrote...

Gamemako wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...

Try your Javelin on a GI specced for max damage everywhere, put AP rounds on it.. and shoot armored targets. I LITERALLY just got done doing this... one shot Ravagers, one shot Brutes, 2 shot Banshee/Atlas Armor. You need your other team members to be the mook killers... but that guy is the designated boss killer. I was amazed at the damage to the Banshee armor... it's more than half.

But yeah other than that... they need love... especially the Kishock.

You LITERALLY lie. With a Javelin X, you get a base 1288.1 damage. Include a 1.25x multi from TC and 1.2x from PM and you're claiming a 323% total damage bonus to kill a Ravager, which is the weakest opponent you claim to one-shot. That cannot be achieved; a Gethfiltrator maxes out at 230%. Even adding a Justicar's offensive bubble will not provide you with enough of a bonus to kill a Ravager in one shot. Ravagers and Brutes will each take two, Banshees and Primes will take 3 for the armor alone, and Atlas Mechs will take 4 for the armor alone.

Snipers need to ignore at least 50% of the shield-gate reduction, and they need a damage buff all around (Krysae excepted; it's not a sniper rifle, it's a rocket launcher). Javelin in particular needs a massive buff, to the tune of 50%. Slow fire rate, hard to aim due to charge-up, and single-shot? Why would you ever want that?

Your math is off, a fully damage specced GI with a Javelin X can do enough damage to one-shot a Ravager (including proxy mine damage + debuff) with maximum level equipment and ammo on Gold.  Not on Platinum though, and not Brutes either.
Anyway, why would you want to use the Javelin?  Simple: when you fire it, it goes "whoop".

With a Proximity mine debuff up, right?

[IronRush]

A Wild Snorlax wrote...

ClockworkSpectre wrote...

No shotgun should be better than a sniper rifle on infiltrator, maybe on par but never better. Infiltrator since ME1 has been a sniper class.

Sadly bioware's response to this will probably be nerfing shotguns rather than buffing snipers. The amunt of weapon buffs significant enough to actually make a noticable difference since the game came out has not been many, especially considering the amount of lackluster guns.

I think not...
I believe on Bioware guys.

[Gamemako]

Sihmm wrote...

Your math is off, a fully damage specced GI with a Javelin X can do enough damage to one-shot a Ravager (including proxy mine damage + debuff) with maximum level equipment and ammo on Gold.  Not on Platinum though, and not Brutes either.

Onus is on you, chief. I used hard number to provide the proof: (8100 HP + 50 armor DR) / (1.25 TC * 1.2 PM) = 5433.33 pre-buffed damage. 543.33 / 1288.1 (Javelin X base damage) = 4.2181 net bonus multiplier, which is base (100%) + additive bonus of 322%. You're going to have to show how you've come up with 322%, because it's not possible to achieve. Networked AI is 22.5% max + 10% geth weapon bonus. Damage evo of Hunter Mode is 17.5%, putting you at 50% core. Weapon barrel gives 25%, Tactical Cloak gives 80% with damage evo. That's 155%. SR gear is 15%, so you're at 170%. If you're using level 3 consumables, they're worth a max of 30% each, which is why the max bonus a Gethfiltrator can get is 230%. Hence, you're 92% short -- in total, the Ravager (again, the weakest target) will have 1724 health remaining after your shot.

//EDIT: Feasible to one-shot if your proxy mine is getting a 331% damage bonus.

//EDIT 2: Just for fun, the bonuses on PM: 30% from Networked AI (assuming you dropped the +15% headshot bonus),  32.5% from Hunter Mode (assuming you dropped RoF for more power damage), 80% from Cloak, 100% max from trees = 242.5%.

//EDIT 3: I will make the assumption that level 4 amps will add 40% instead of 30% to each bonus (which follows from current patterns -- I have yet to see any hard data, and the info is not in the game files that I have seen/heard). That allows a net 250% max possible bonus on a Gethfiltrator using level IV ammo and SR amps, which then leaves 1387.475 HP for a net 247% Proximity Mine bonus. Adding a level I or greater power amp would then make it possible to one-shot a Ravager (though one might question your sanity for using a power amp on a Gethfiltrator). Brutes have 900 HP more and are well beyond feasibility -- you'd need +225% more proxy mine damage, and the max you could get is short by 190%. Banshees and Primes have 16875 armor. With level IV amps, including a level IV power amp, the first shot and mine would deal 6750.025 and 1530 damage, respectively. Assuming we don't do anything except while cloaking (4-second cycle each time at the minimum), a second bullet would add 6750.025 and the accompanying mine would add 1836 for a total of 16866 damage -- 9 damage short of a two-hit. So yeah, even assuming that kind of (pretty silly) stuff, Brutes take 2, Primes and Banshees take 3, and Atlas Mechs take 3. So yeah, taking the armor off a Banshee takes at least 10 seconds for a guy with a Javelin X. That is not impressive on any level, considering you can do the same with a Piranha in 0.8 seconds (1.2 seconds if you include the delay after the last shot).

Modifié par Gamemako, 25 juillet 2012 - 05:52 .

[jpan89]

Sp3c7eR wrote...

I haven't sniped in such a long time... Platinum's protection regeneration mechanic makes it almost impossible for snipers to do enough damage to kill before shields/barriers are back up.

[jpan89]

And seriously Bioware, make sniping worthwhile again. It was the one thing I was really good at and back in the day (when we could headshot bosses), I could top a gold scoreboard with a SI + Widow V.

Now even with the GI and a Javelin VII and all the gear and lvl 4 consumables, I feel pretty useless. The claymore is the new sniper rifle

[ToaOrka]

Koz340 wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Make them ignore the shieldgate.

Dis Right Hur.

/Thread 

[GeneralElectric]

Nice thread, and more productive than most! I've been compiling a list of issues and suggested fixes regarding sniper rifles HERE.

Modifié par GeneralElectric, 25 juillet 2012 - 05:41 .

[A Wild Snorlax]

ToaOrka wrote...

Koz340 wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Make them ignore the shieldgate.

Dis Right Hur.

/Thread 

Wouldn't help all that much really, shield gate can allready be bypassed by using a salarian infiltrator. While this would be a start most of the sniper rifles need major damage buffs. Honestly, there's no reason why the claymore should do more damage than the javelin, and outdamage the widow by around 60%. The black widow also does pathetic damage. Less than a piranha in fact, which has 8 shots and a higher fire rate. You could also compare it to for example the GPS and it's a joke in comparison in terms of damage, while also being much heavier. Or a reload cancelling claymore, the list goes on really. 1 claymore shot does the same damage as 2.5 black widow shot, and the fire rate is not that much lower if you reload cancel it, I mean come on.

On gold you can get away with using snipers, allthough you are gimping yourself. On platinum their damage is simply not good enough.

Modifié par A Wild Snorlax, 25 juillet 2012 - 05:51 .

[Gamemako]

A Wild Snorlax wrote...

Wouldn't help all that much really, shield gate can allready be bypassed by using a salarian infiltrator.

...well, if he's built for power damage, has a level IV power amp, and is carrying an Operative Package. Otherwise, he can't drain out gold turrets or phantoms. Also, he can never drain out gold pryos; they just have too damn much shield.

//EDIT: Need power amp for Hunters as well. And this is assuming all power damage builds. Go for radius on drain and you can't take out a Nemesis without a power amp. //EDIT: Nevermind, must have been a calculation error there.

Modifié par Gamemako, 25 juillet 2012 - 06:11 .

[Vespervin]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Make them ignore the shieldgate.

I could not agree more. If the Sniper Rifle can only shoot one bullet at a time then it should be allowed to completely ignore the Shield Gate.

[SOMETHING_FOR_NOTHING]

kevchy wrote...

I'm waiting for the sniper buffs... for now I'm a full-time shotgun infiltrator.

I KNOW THAT FEEEl bro...im a full time GethRanha in platinum, gold lol i am a sniper....but i want to snipe in plat as well...BW needs to fabricate a wep for snipers playing in plat

[ShinTheZero]

Hm... this is a point, which lasted already from the very beginning and it has just got worse through TC nerf, because of that non-Sniper Krysae. But with the later now gone, we might get some buffs for TC Rank 6 and the Sniper Rifles.

What I would see:
- TC Rank 6 25% multiplier back to 40% (it gives us the original damage with SR without Rank 4 Damage back)
- Give Widow and Javelin a Shield Penetration of 50% (their high damage overkills normal unshieled creep, so 100% piercing would be needless) No love for the Mantis, because it is a starter weapon.
- Decrease of the Javelin's Weight by 10% (it is the heaviest SR in game)
- Damage of all Sniper Rifles except the Krysae increased by 5-10%.

This would finally make SRs even with the Shotguns and some ARs in this game.

[robarcool]

A buff to single shot SRs would be desirable.

[birdland 1115]

I'd approve of a weapon mod that allows SRs to ignore the shield gate (perhaps at the cost of DMG per shot)

[ShinTheZero]

Shield Piercing Mod would be OP for Semi-Automatic SRs like the Black Widow or the Valiant. It would kill any shielded enemy with one shot and here we go again with the OPness of SR.
It's better to implement into the Rifle itself.

[ZombieGambit]

Yes, please.

After the Infiltrator nerf, the only class that did well with bolt actions, basically all sniper rifles are relegated to pretty much sucking since no class can really make them shine.

[UEG Donkey]

Gamemako wrote...

Sihmm wrote...

Your math is off, a fully damage specced GI with a Javelin X can do enough damage to one-shot a Ravager (including proxy mine damage + debuff) with maximum level equipment and ammo on Gold.  Not on Platinum though, and not Brutes either.

Onus is on you, chief. I used hard number to provide the proof: (8100 HP + 50 armor DR) / (1.25 TC * 1.2 PM) = 5433.33 pre-buffed damage. 543.33 / 1288.1 (Javelin X base damage) = 4.2181 net bonus multiplier, which is base (100%) + additive bonus of 322%. You're going to have to show how you've come up with 322%, because it's not possible to achieve. Networked AI is 22.5% max + 10% geth weapon bonus. Damage evo of Hunter Mode is 17.5%, putting you at 50% core. Weapon barrel gives 25%, Tactical Cloak gives 80% with damage evo. That's 155%. SR gear is 15%, so you're at 170%. If you're using level 3 consumables, they're worth a max of 30% each, which is why the max bonus a Gethfiltrator can get is 230%. Hence, you're 92% short -- in total, the Ravager (again, the weakest target) will have 1724 health remaining after your shot.

//EDIT: Feasible to one-shot if your proxy mine is getting a 331% damage bonus.

//EDIT 2: Just for fun, the bonuses on PM: 30% from Networked AI (assuming you dropped the +15% headshot bonus),  32.5% from Hunter Mode (assuming you dropped RoF for more power damage), 80% from Cloak, 100% max from trees = 242.5%.

//EDIT 3: I will make the assumption that level 4 amps will add 40% instead of 30% to each bonus (which follows from current patterns -- I have yet to see any hard data, and the info is not in the game files that I have seen/heard). That allows a net 250% max possible bonus on a Gethfiltrator using level IV ammo and SR amps, which then leaves 1387.475 HP for a net 247% Proximity Mine bonus. Adding a level I or greater power amp would then make it possible to one-shot a Ravager (though one might question your sanity for using a power amp on a Gethfiltrator). Brutes have 900 HP more and are well beyond feasibility -- you'd need +225% more proxy mine damage, and the max you could get is short by 190%. Banshees and Primes have 16875 armor. With level IV amps, including a level IV power amp, the first shot and mine would deal 6750.025 and 1530 damage, respectively. Assuming we don't do anything except while cloaking (4-second cycle each time at the minimum), a second bullet would add 6750.025 and the accompanying mine would add 1836 for a total of 16866 damage -- 9 damage short of a two-hit. So yeah, even assuming that kind of (pretty silly) stuff, Brutes take 2, Primes and Banshees take 3, and Atlas Mechs take 3. So yeah, taking the armor off a Banshee takes at least 10 seconds for a guy with a Javelin X. That is not impressive on any level, considering you can do the same with a Piranha in 0.8 seconds (1.2 seconds if you include the delay after the last shot).

^these numbers are correct, I run a GI with no fitness frequently with max power damage with the Javelin,I like it but you aren't one shotting Ravagers or Brutes without level IV consumables.  Before the infiltrator nerf and AAtlas Buff you could PM+One shot an Atlas down to armor and to be fair that's a pretty good deal. 

[robarcool]

birdland 1115 wrote...

I'd approve of a weapon mod that allows SRs to ignore the shield gate (perhaps at the cost of DMG per shot)

I second this. I would let the armor piercing go for it (I mean replace it in my setup, not be gone from the game).

[nick91_99]

It seems that the biggest damage sniper rifles do in MP is to peoples egos for finishing last in points.

[Blind2Society]

tonydaazntiger319 wrote...

I would love to see some sniper rifle buffs

This. And make headshots ignore shieldgate.

[vonSlash]

Either allow them to ignore a percentage of shield gate, reduce Gold/Platinum shield gate to 75% (best solution), or buff their damage dramatically to give them an advantage over shotguns/UR ARs as boss-killers.

[megabeast37215]

Gamemako wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...

Try your Javelin on a GI specced for max damage everywhere, put AP rounds on it.. and shoot armored targets. I LITERALLY just got done doing this... one shot Ravagers, one shot Brutes, 2 shot Banshee/Atlas Armor. You need your other team members to be the mook killers... but that guy is the designated boss killer. I was amazed at the damage to the Banshee armor... it's more than half.

But yeah other than that... they need love... especially the Kishock.

You LITERALLY lie. With a Javelin X, you get a base 1288.1 damage. Include a 1.25x multi from TC and 1.2x from PM and you're claiming a 323% total damage bonus to kill a Ravager, which is the weakest opponent you claim to one-shot. That cannot be achieved; a Gethfiltrator maxes out at 230%. Even adding a Justicar's offensive bubble will not provide you with enough of a bonus to kill a Ravager in one shot. Ravagers and Brutes will each take two, Banshees and Primes will take 3 for the armor alone, and Atlas Mechs will take 4 for the armor alone.

Snipers need to ignore at least 50% of the shield-gate reduction, and they need a damage buff all around (Krysae excepted; it's not a sniper rifle, it's a rocket launcher). Javelin in particular needs a massive buff, to the tune of 50%. Slow fire rate, hard to aim due to charge-up, and single-shot? Why would you ever want that?

Yes.. I'm a dirty liar. Devilgood and I showed this to defleshing last night/this morning when he got on...I wonder if he thinks we're lying?

Put down your calculator... go take every damage option availble to the geth infiltrator (no fitness), put on Sniper Amp V, Rail amp III, AP 4... hit the target with proxy mine then come back and tell me I'm lying again.

You also left out all the bonuses from the passive, including the geth weapon bonus, 17.5% from hunter mode and whatever benefit gained from AP 4 ammo...

Modifié par megabeast37215, 25 juillet 2012 - 07:24 .

[Sihmm]

Gamemako wrote...

Sihmm wrote...

Your math is off, a fully damage specced GI with a Javelin X can do enough damage to one-shot a Ravager (including proxy mine damage + debuff) with maximum level equipment and ammo on Gold.  Not on Platinum though, and not Brutes either.

Onus is on you, chief.

OK.

Google spreadsheet

I actually forgot to include extended barrel when I did my earlier calculations, so I guess a Brute can be one-shot on Gold with a Javelin X.  Corrections welcomed.

Incidentally this is not unique to the Javelin, the Widow X can do it also and, more interestingly, the Claymore X can do it without a rail amp using only AP IV ammo on a human infiltrator with duration spec - I think from the bonus damage of bursting all the sacs at once.  The Javelin just makes you pay more for the privilege.

Modifié par Sihmm, 25 juillet 2012 - 07:33 .