What sucks is that people expect the rapid fire weapons to do no damage and singleshot and burst guns should be doing godly damage. I want rapid fire weapons that are are powerful too, because those guns are alwyas more fun for me.
Piranha balance thread - Lower DPS or RoF or Clip Size or increase Weight
Débuté par
Guest_death_for_sale_*
, juil. 25 2012 05:41
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#252
Guest_death_for_sale_*
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 07:32
Guest_death_for_sale_*
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dday3six wrote...
Raising the weight will only limit the Piranha's usage by other set ups, however it will not limit it's usage by the classes which are best with it: Infiltrators and Soldiers. As such I feel it's more balanced to have it accessable to other classes.
Sometimes you have to see the big picture. I know there are some players who "never die", but for those who do, now that executions happen on Gold and Platinum close quarters combat is more risky The Piranha requires close quarters to be most effective and unless a player is good at managing it's recoil while keeping situational awareness they are going to die often, and be executed as a result. Add all that together and I can easily see why the Piranha actaully needed the damage buff, though it seemed odd when it first happened.
Also the "best" players are a small portion of the game's playerbase. I know those players want a more challenging game, but that is not what every one wants, and eventually there is a peak of challenge those players can be offered before alienating everyone else. Changes to Gold or better yet Platinum are in my opinion a better way for them to be offered a challenge as opposed to nerfing every weapon they feel is distracting from their challenge.
The Piranha does not REQUIRE close quarters to be effective. With various mods and game mechanics, not to mention class abilities that affect it, you can use it at range.
Even on classes forced to use it in close, they have options. I was playing last night with an Asari Adept that would use BE's until the Banshee got close, then shred the Banshee with the Piranha. I use it on my Pheonix characters in much the same way, Smash Smash Smash, finish with Piranha. I have a 170% CD on my PA/PV with only passives. That is too good given the amount of damage I can lay out.
#254
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 07:33
Taritu
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The weight is so low that it's now my go-to weapon on my power classes. Probably does need a nerf of some sort. Certainly I'll never use any of the pistols ever again as long as it exists.
Modifié par Taritu, 25 juillet 2012 - 07:34 .
#255
Guest_death_for_sale_*
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 07:34
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oXTheReverendXo wrote...
Why all the comparison to the Claymore? Can we not have a shotgun with higher sustained DPS than the Claymore? Does it have to be the be-all, end-all of shotguns? It's an old shotgun with contemporary viability, but the Piranha is a modern weapon specifically designed to counter the Reaper threat. It makes sense for it to be more powerful than the Claymore, IMHO.
I vote against the nerf to the Piranha. It's pretty powerful on Gold, no doubt, but I think BioWare intentionally released this and the Typhoon to tackle Platinum. These two weapons do this well, but not OP well. I'm not an anti-nerfer, either. The nerf to the Typhoon's penetration didn't bother me in the least.
The Krysae was a a modern weapon created specifically to counter the Reaper threat...
Fine, leave the DPS, but increase the weight to equal the Claymore. Happy?
#256
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 07:35
nasteerus
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buff crap guns first then we'll talk about piranha
#257
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 07:35
xtorma
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death_for_sale wrote...
dday3six wrote...
Raising the weight will only limit the Piranha's usage by other set ups, however it will not limit it's usage by the classes which are best with it: Infiltrators and Soldiers. As such I feel it's more balanced to have it accessable to other classes.
Sometimes you have to see the big picture. I know there are some players who "never die", but for those who do, now that executions happen on Gold and Platinum close quarters combat is more risky The Piranha requires close quarters to be most effective and unless a player is good at managing it's recoil while keeping situational awareness they are going to die often, and be executed as a result. Add all that together and I can easily see why the Piranha actaully needed the damage buff, though it seemed odd when it first happened.
Also the "best" players are a small portion of the game's playerbase. I know those players want a more challenging game, but that is not what every one wants, and eventually there is a peak of challenge those players can be offered before alienating everyone else. Changes to Gold or better yet Platinum are in my opinion a better way for them to be offered a challenge as opposed to nerfing every weapon they feel is distracting from their challenge.
The Piranha does not REQUIRE close quarters to be effective. With various mods and game mechanics, not to mention class abilities that affect it, you can use it at range.
Even on classes forced to use it in close, they have options. I was playing last night with an Asari Adept that would use BE's until the Banshee got close, then shred the Banshee with the Piranha. I use it on my Pheonix characters in much the same way, Smash Smash Smash, finish with Piranha. I have a 170% CD on my PA/PV with only passives. That is too good given the amount of damage I can lay out.
This is true for any weapon.
#258
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 07:35
MingoStarr
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No... Shooting anybody outside of whisper-hearing range is horrible with this gun. That how it's balanced, just like the Reegar.
So again... No.
So again... No.
#259
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 07:35
cerberus1701
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Master Xanthan wrote...
The nerfers are going to be the death of this game.
Too late.
#260
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 07:36
Heldarion
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Go away nerfers, Piranha is fine.
#261
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 07:36
DSxCallOfBooty-
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This weapon needs to be nerfed into oblivion.
Rolling back the damage to pre-nerf levels still leaves the gun with the highest DPS in the game (except for Reegar vs. Shields), and 2.0-1.4 weight is still light enough to be usable on most classes. As some people on the thread have said though, increasing the weight removes the niche that the weapon is supposed to occupy.
So, the only reasonable solution IMO is a damage nerf. The Piranha, if it were to be compared to any one weapon in the game, would be the Scimitar. The Scimitar X has a DPS of 589.33, while the Piranha's is 1774.00, significantly higher than the Scimitar X (which, IMO is deserving of a buff). The Piranha also has a higher total ammo capacity, multiple clips higher than the Scimitar. The only advantages the Scimitar has are a lower weight (which is a very marginal difference, .7 on the Scimitar X compared to .9 on the Piranha X) and a higher accuracy (which doesn't really matter, considering how accurate the Piranha is with Smart Choke V and/or cover). There's little to no reason to use the Scimitar X over the Piranha X.
As far as the argument that "well, just nerf the N7So, TSo, and GI because it's so good on them" is concerned, that's ridiculous. The Piranha is a monster on any class, and it's effectiveness on any of them needs to be universally reduced. Honestly, this weapon could suffer a 50% damage reduction and still be extremely effective.
My suggestion would either be for the 50% damage reduction, alongside slightly increased accuracy, or a damage reduction to around 65% of it's current damage. This way, the weapon is still a good killer, but retains the light weight so that it can be used on caster classes.
Rolling back the damage to pre-nerf levels still leaves the gun with the highest DPS in the game (except for Reegar vs. Shields), and 2.0-1.4 weight is still light enough to be usable on most classes. As some people on the thread have said though, increasing the weight removes the niche that the weapon is supposed to occupy.
So, the only reasonable solution IMO is a damage nerf. The Piranha, if it were to be compared to any one weapon in the game, would be the Scimitar. The Scimitar X has a DPS of 589.33, while the Piranha's is 1774.00, significantly higher than the Scimitar X (which, IMO is deserving of a buff). The Piranha also has a higher total ammo capacity, multiple clips higher than the Scimitar. The only advantages the Scimitar has are a lower weight (which is a very marginal difference, .7 on the Scimitar X compared to .9 on the Piranha X) and a higher accuracy (which doesn't really matter, considering how accurate the Piranha is with Smart Choke V and/or cover). There's little to no reason to use the Scimitar X over the Piranha X.
As far as the argument that "well, just nerf the N7So, TSo, and GI because it's so good on them" is concerned, that's ridiculous. The Piranha is a monster on any class, and it's effectiveness on any of them needs to be universally reduced. Honestly, this weapon could suffer a 50% damage reduction and still be extremely effective.
My suggestion would either be for the 50% damage reduction, alongside slightly increased accuracy, or a damage reduction to around 65% of it's current damage. This way, the weapon is still a good killer, but retains the light weight so that it can be used on caster classes.
Modifié par DSxCallOfBooty-, 25 juillet 2012 - 07:40 .
#262
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 07:36
Rosalina is my BabyCakes
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Why don't whiners do something useful with them selfs and make thread whining about bugs and glitches in the game
#263
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 07:36
Star fury
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This fish eats banshees and atlases with one clip. Nerf it ASAP, noob-tube for noobs that claim they're so good not because of Piranha but because they have teh platinum skillz.
#264
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 07:37
Noir316
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what's with all the retards saying to not balance the game?
#265
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 07:37
Pride Demon
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While I understand the point you are trying to make this comparison doesn't work properly IMHO: the Saber is ultra-rare and the Avenger common so it's expected the Saber would be generally stronger.death_for_sale wrote...
Aethyl wrote...
Kronner wrote...
ryoldschool wrote...
Op your calculation on claymore is horribly wrong. Why can't you respond to this?
His calculation is 100% correct.
Still, it doesn't adress another difference between those 2 weapons, the range/accuracy.
The Claymore is crazy accurate at long range, and it can even be used to snipe for headshots at long distance, as long as you have the Smart Choke mod, while the Piranha will always be a close quarter weapon.
Also, the Claymore does alot of damage with one shot, while the Piranha need more shots to be this effective, and so putting you out of cover for a longer time.
Those differences should be taken in account, and that's why the Piranha should INDEED have a better DPS than the Claymore, since it requires to be closer and to land more shot on your target.
By that logic, the Avenger should do more damage than the Saber. Since you have to be out of cover longer to make more shots and the Saber does more damage with less shots.
To have a more appropriate example to refer to the Piranha/Claymore one (both are rare), you should call into question two ultra-rare ARs... Like Saber and Harrier for instance...
#266
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 07:38
Rokayt
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Its DPS is worse then the Claymores against armor, it is less accurate, and you are more exposed while doing your damage. As you pointed out, their canceled DPS is almost identical anyhow. Anyone with decent patients can invalidate using the piranha any day.
#267
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 07:38
DeadlyRacoon
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You need to be very close for the pirahnna to be effective.. You people need to stop crying about nerfing things. Why is OP suggesting the nerf? Is he mad because someone beat him on the scoreboard?
#268
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 07:38
Ziegrif
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nope.avi
Currently it's accuracy is restrickting the Piranha to the Vanguards, Turian soldier, Destroyer and the GI, if you wanna nerf it you gotta buff it's accuracy.
Otherwise the karmic accuracy = damage balance will not be satisfied.
I generally dislike nerfs anyway.
Currently it's accuracy is restrickting the Piranha to the Vanguards, Turian soldier, Destroyer and the GI, if you wanna nerf it you gotta buff it's accuracy.
Otherwise the karmic accuracy = damage balance will not be satisfied.
I generally dislike nerfs anyway.
#269
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 07:39
RecoonHoodie
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WeAreLegion- wrote...
GO TO HELL STUPID NERFERS!
#270
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 07:39
ShadowHound
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I seriously want to know why? Not math. A REAL reason.. I use it on my lvl 20 soldier at lvl X. Because what you proposing is if a two man team goes in (demolisher and destroyer) they could ESSENTIALLY dominate using the piranha and the pylon. That may be the case if they were standing in one spot the whole match. But it isn't. Factor in the objectives and there's your hole.
#273
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 07:40
nasteerus
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sorry about the gate. freaking trolls got out again!
#274
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 07:40
Feneckus
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It's amazing the amount of people who think "nerfers" are actually the reason BW nerf some guns/powers. So freaking stupid.
#275
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 07:41
Rokayt
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Nerfers are not stupid. Simply the ones calling for a Pirhana nerf are jumping the gun slightly.RecoonHoodie wrote...
WeAreLegion- wrote...
GO TO HELL STUPID NERFERS!
