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Piranha balance thread - Lower DPS or RoF or Clip Size or increase Weight

Débuté par Guest_death_for_sale_* , juil. 25 2012 05:41

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#276
Guest_death_for_sale_*
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 07:41

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Gockey wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

Aethyl wrote...

Kronner wrote...

ryoldschool wrote...

Op your calculation on claymore is horribly wrong. Why can't you respond to this?


His calculation is 100% correct.


Still, it doesn't adress another difference between those 2 weapons, the range/accuracy.

The Claymore is crazy accurate at long range, and it can even be used to snipe for headshots at long distance, as long as you have the Smart Choke mod, while the Piranha will always be a close quarter weapon.
Also, the Claymore does alot of damage with one shot, while the Piranha need more shots to be this effective, and so putting you out of cover for a longer time.

Those differences should be taken in account, and that's why the Piranha should INDEED have a better DPS than the Claymore, since it requires to be closer and to land more shot on your target.


By that logic, the Avenger should do more damage than the Saber. Since you have to be out of cover longer to make more shots and the Saber does more damage with less shots.


Apples and oranges.  One is Common the other Rare.


In regards to the point I am addressing with the comment, it is not apples and oranges. The poster said that the difference in damage was due to the Piranha needing more shots to be effective. If that is the case, any multi shot weapon should do more DPS than a slower shot weapon, since you have to be out of cover longer.

It was used to show the error in the logic of the statement, not to compare the two weapons directly.

#277
Whapa
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 07:41

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elecmanexe001 wrote...

Why, why does it 'have' to be nerfed? How is this hurting your experience? I happen to like being able to kill enemies and completing missions.


This so much This.  I haven't even acquired hardly any of the ultra rares (got a single lucky Talon) but shoot, if people use it and the missions are successful it means more credits in your pocket with less effort, more successful Operations completed which is more UR's in your pocket.... HOW THE CRAP does someone using something hurt you? (besides the obvious point of them not knowing which end the pellets come out of)

#278
Astartes Marine
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 07:43

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You only took DPS into account...what about accuracy? You know, one of the greatest weaknesses of the Pirahna? You have to be real close to unleash the boss-melting power. Risk/reward

#279
Rifneno
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 07:44

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Phyrex82 wrote...

(besides the obvious point of them not knowing which end the pellets come out of)


Don't be a sissy, it didn't hurt General Zod.

#280
smyss
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 07:44

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STOP REPLYING TO THIS THREAD NOW THANKS

#281
YIRAWK
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 07:45

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YOU NO NERF TODAY.

#282
Shpoon
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 07:45

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Nerf requests <_< What a load of sh..... :pinched:

#283
Guest_death_for_sale_*
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 07:47

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Astartes Marine wrote...

You only took DPS into account...what about accuracy? You know, one of the greatest weaknesses of the Pirahna? You have to be real close to unleash the boss-melting power. Risk/reward


The accuracy is not as bad as people continually try to make out. Using easily available mods, gear, class abilities, cover, or any combination thereof makes it accurate enough to be an issue at mid range. I am not saying that it is a long range weapon, but mid range this weapon destroys things.

#284
thisnameiscrap
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 07:47

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Image IPB

#285
Alex101Crusader
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 07:47

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death_for_sale wrote...

With the buff to damage on July 18:

Piranha Shotgun
-Damage increased from [63.6-79.6] to [70.9-88.7]

The damage per pellet is now 221.75 (RoF 150 * Damage 88.7(X) / 60). You can then multiply this by the number of Pellets to get your DPS.

8 * 221.75 = 1774 DPS

Now the current DPS of the Claymore is 1648 at Level X. Yes, the Claymore has a tighter spread, but with Smart Choke, cover accuracy, and/or class Accuracy bonuses, you are looking at a weapon that is beyond Devastating on Gold and still very overpowered on Platinum.


Since you're using the Rate of Fire in your calculations, i assume that you're basically comparing the Damage Per Second (and not the Damage Per Shot) of a singleshot Shotgun with a fully automatic shotgun...
Really? :mellow:
The Claymore X does that DPS with one shot.
The Piranha X does that DPS with multiple shots.
The logic at the base of the request for nerfing the Piranha is totally wrong.
I mean: of course a full automatic shotgun is capable of dealing the same amount of damage of a singleshot shotgun over a full second.
I could agree with you only if the Piranha was inflicting the same damage of the Claymore with a single shot, but it's not the case.

#286
skiadopsendow
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 07:49

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Yeah nerf everything!!!

#287
Edolix
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 07:49

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Jesus Christ, the Piranha is fine. Leave it alone.

#288
Sentinel_Zero
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 07:49

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chielhier313 wrote...

How about NO?? Use another gun if you like but stop already with the nerfing cries!


Exactly, stop whining 'nerf'.

#289
Guest_death_for_sale_*
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 07:50

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Alex101Crusader wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

With the buff to damage on July 18:

Piranha Shotgun
-Damage increased from [63.6-79.6] to [70.9-88.7]

The damage per pellet is now 221.75 (RoF 150 * Damage 88.7(X) / 60). You can then multiply this by the number of Pellets to get your DPS.

8 * 221.75 = 1774 DPS

Now the current DPS of the Claymore is 1648 at Level X. Yes, the Claymore has a tighter spread, but with Smart Choke, cover accuracy, and/or class Accuracy bonuses, you are looking at a weapon that is beyond Devastating on Gold and still very overpowered on Platinum.


Since you're using the Rate of Fire in your calculations, i assume that you're basically comparing the Damage Per Second (and not the Damage Per Shot) of a singleshot Shotgun with a fully automatic shotgun...
Really? :mellow:
The Claymore X does that DPS with one shot.
The Piranha X does that DPS with multiple shots.
The logic at the base of the request for nerfing the Piranha is totally wrong.
I mean: of course a full automatic shotgun is capable of dealing the same amount of damage of a singleshot shotgun over a full second.
I could agree with you only if the Piranha was inflicting the same damage of the Claymore with a single shot, but it's not the case.



You are incorrect. I updated the post with the adjusted sustained dps. This is the DPS counting reload.

The
sustained DPS for uncanceled/canceled Claymore fire is 470 / 833 DPS.
The sustained DPS for the uncanceled/canceled Piranha is 984 / 1338.6

#290
Sentinel_Zero
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 07:50

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Shpoon wrote...

Nerf requests <_< What a load of sh..... :pinched:



+1

#291
Striker93175
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 07:51

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How about............. we just wipe your manifest clean and you can play w/ starter weapons all over if you want to be nerfed?

Yea, so thats a no here too!

#292
Bruno Kitsune
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 07:51

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elecmanexe001, the line of thought are very simple.

Those people are always looking the score, since they can’t beat you with some specific character / weapon; they think everyone should get the same score.

They forgot whatever, that people are different, some have it best with shotguns, others with the assault rifles and especially… there always be someone better then you. If you are lucky enough, one of them in your team can make a full extraction on platinum (U/U) in less than 22 minutes. And everyone score will be the same…

#293
Lambda_00
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 07:52

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Noir316 wrote...

what's with all the retards saying to not balance the game?


Balance =/= Nerf.

Balance = Balance

Most of the Uncommon/Rare weapons are absolutely horrible on Platinum in terms of what they can do damage wise. 

nasteerus wrote...

buff crap guns first then we'll talk about piranha


A significant buff to most of the non UR (and even a few of the UR) weapons would be appreciated more than actually nerfing things.  Hint BioWare, there's a very good reason why certain gear builds are used more often than others. Making everything less powerful means that players looking for efficiency will usually go to the next most effective option, and so on.  If BioWare needs to make platinum "more difficult", then they should simply make each wave the equivalent of an objective wave (eliminates a camping strategy), randomized objectives (annex, mobile annex, retrieve, etc), vastly reduced credits PER wave and together add to the total that platinum gives, and include more non-boss enemies from all three factions.

#294
HamSlammer
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 07:52

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you are just the worst kind of person...

#295
Brother Takka
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 07:52

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Did it ever cross the OP's mind that some guns are for higher difficulties? that's why you have common, uncommon, rare and ultra rare. Rare and Ultra Rare are ment for gold/platinum. If you don't like the gun stick to the lower difficulties or just ask them to buff a common or uncommon shotgun.

#296
xtorma
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 07:53

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It's that old slippery slope thing that is not really supposed to happen.

#297
bogsters23
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 07:54

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Leave my piranha alone. i love the sound it makes num num num num num num num num as banshees, atlases and primes melt on platinum on my GI.

#298
Guest_death_for_sale_*
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 07:54

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Bruno Kitsune wrote...

elecmanexe001, the line of thought are very simple.

Those people are always looking the score, since they can’t beat you with some specific character / weapon; they think everyone should get the same score.

They forgot whatever, that people are different, some have it best with shotguns, others with the assault rifles and especially… there always be someone better then you. If you are lucky enough, one of them in your team can make a full extraction on platinum (U/U) in less than 22 minutes. And everyone score will be the same…


It has nothing to do with score. Most of the time I top the darn scoreboard, for what good that is worth. It is about the fact that the weapon is overpowered and is going to lead to classes getting nerfed rather than a stupid weapon that can be replaced. If you do not think that Bioware is going to nerf the heck out something soon, you are sadly mistaken. I, for one, would rather it be an OP weapon than a good class that is made to look OP by said weapon.

#299
Guest_death_for_sale_*
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 07:55

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Brother Takka wrote...

Did it ever cross the OP's mind that some guns are for higher difficulties? that's why you have common, uncommon, rare and ultra rare. Rare and Ultra Rare are ment for gold/platinum. If you don't like the gun stick to the lower difficulties or just ask them to buff a common or uncommon shotgun.


This weapon makes bosses trivial on Platinum. I rarely play lower than Gold so I don't know how OP is it on Silver and Bronze.

#300
Xeraphas
Posté 25 juillet 2012 - 07:56

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If anything I think the Piranha needs a bigger ammo count. It needs something to differentiate it more from other guns like the Saber. As it stands it is close to the saber, but the saber is more accurate and slightly better per shot (not dps per say per shot fired) and both have about the same total ammo and shots per clip. And as inaccurate as it is, it takes more shots to it an enemy than with a Saber. So there is little reason to use a Piranha over a Saber, Claymore, or Geth Plasma Shotgun. Granted it can take down a prime in silver with luck and if they are close, but that puts in their immobilizing stagger power range.
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