1320 réponses à ce sujet

[GroverA125]

Kronner wrote...

Aethyl wrote...
Still, it doesn't adress another difference between those 2 weapons, the range/accuracy.

The Claymore is crazy accurate at long range, and it can even be used to snipe for headshots at long distance, as long as you have the Smart Choke mod, while the Piranha will always be a close quarter weapon.
Also, the Claymore does alot of damage with one shot, while the Piranha need more shots to be this effective, and so putting you out of cover for a longer time.

Those differences should be taken in account, and that's why the Piranha should INDEED have a better DPS than the Claymore, since it requires to be closer and to land more shot on you target.

If Piranha weight was 2.0 like the Claymore's, you would have a point. Piranha's weight is 0.9, i.e. Claymore is more than twice as heavy.

That's funny, the numbers I'm getting shows that a Claymore (specced for it's usual setup) gets out 1041 DPS when reload-cancelled (which is the only way anyone actively would use it over anything else), while the Pirahna (again, specced conventionally) scores about 1250 DPS reload cancelled. Statistically, that's on the marker. 1250 is more like 922.5 DPS, even at close (the massive RoF and recoil makes it more than likely to lose about 25% of your shots at maximum RPM (you can't fire at maximum RPM AND have time to effectively line up your shots, like with the M-300). Plus the M-300 severely outlasts the Pirahna. If you do the numbers, then without accounting for this inaccuracy, changing the damage of the claymore to that of the pirahna, then multiplying ammo by the amount divided, you find that the claymore has 76, while the claymore has around 65. So in terms of damage to bullet count, claymore wins.

So, the claymore is:
More accurate
Doesn't require accuracy to be sacrificed to achieve maximum RPM
Has better ammo efficiency
Has better range
Has better DPS in the same area

And the Pirahna is:
Lighter
Has better DPS (if spare ammo and missed shots aren't not considered)

At best, you could give it a 10-15% damage drop at best to put it on par with a Claymore. Don't increas ethe weight on a weapon for lightweight characters. That's just stupid. Maybe do a Harrier and drop the spare ammo to 75% of what it currently is, but more than one debuff at once. Do it slowly, check if it's still overpowered, then consider a second debuff.

[Mindlog]

Money in the bank.

If (when) the Piranha gets hit hard then Typhoon/GPS will immediately do the same thing.
Which sucks for those of us without a Typhoon

Why does the GPS get homing, stagger and decent damage?

[Lambda_00]

death_for_sale wrote...

Bruno Kitsune wrote...

elecmanexe001, the line of thought are very simple.

Those people are always looking the score, since they can’t beat you with some specific character / weapon; they think everyone should get the same score.

They forgot whatever, that people are different, some have it best with shotguns, others with the assault rifles and especially… there always be someone better then you. If you are lucky enough, one of them in your team can make a full extraction on platinum (U/U) in less than 22 minutes. And everyone score will be the same…

It has nothing to do with score. Most of the time I top the darn scoreboard, for what good that is worth. It is about the fact that the weapon is overpowered and is going to lead to classes getting nerfed rather than a stupid weapon that can be replaced. If you do not think that Bioware is going to nerf the heck out something soon, you are sadly mistaken. I, for one, would rather it be an OP weapon than a good class that is made to look OP by said weapon.

Technically, as long as the waves are what they are currently, we'll never have "true" balance.
They require people to almost entirely spec for DPS to get through.  And generally the higher DPS characters/weapons get more use than ones that most people see as "deadweight".  Basically the buffs/nerfs are a temporary (and in my opinion a rather shoddy) fix for the major issue of the gamemode itself.

Modifié par Lambda_00, 25 juillet 2012 - 08:19 .

[Fortack]

dday3six wrote...

Raising the weight will only limit the Piranha's usage by other set ups, however it will not limit it's usage by the classes which are best with it: Infiltrators and Soldiers. As such I feel it's more balanced to have it accessable to other classes.

How does an increase in weight makes the Piranha less interesting for other characters? Isn't a (big) increase in weapon damage, at the cost of marginally slower recharge timers, a good deal? I think most people greatly overrate the importance of cooldowns. The difference between a 3 or a 4 second cooldown makes hardly any difference in most situations whereas the difference between a good and a poor weapon is gigantic.

[Fauxnormal]

HamSlammer wrote...

you are just the worst kind of person...

Wow, you don't know much about people. Nor have you, apperantly, ever seen the worst kind of person.

Fourteen or fifteen?

[BLY78NOR]

The constant nerfs are killing this game

[aarnold1]

Nerfs aren't needed. I'd rather see Platinum made more challenging due to surprises instead of N+1 logic of multiplying enemies. How about in Platinum the Geth Hunters have a special shield that rebounds 60% projectile damage back onto the shooting player? (yeah, ok, cruel). Or what about giving Banshees and Geth Primes the ability to use sabotage? Imagine a Destroyer using a Piranha who is put under sabotage for 10 seconds. Wicked pain. Or maybe the Marauders have the ability to shoot your thrown grenades out of the air? haha Maybe grant the Phantom the ability to Shadow Strike? The point is, who cares how overpowered the weapons are, just beef up the enemies abilities in the high difficulty games where these OP weapons are needed the most? I don't know, I just want to have fun.

[Machazareel]

Gotta love armchair developers who feel the need to make posts on a forum to inform people how they feel something is unbalanced, then act shocked as people lash out at them for parading around and trying to ruin everyone else's fun.

If it needs to be rebalanced, it will be, after developers look at actual data, as opposed to numbers that are mathed out in a vacuum in some forum post which generally does not apply to actual gameplay.

[Kick In The Door]

[Chaoswind]

death_for_sale wrote...

With the buff to damage on July 18:

Piranha Shotgun
-Damage increased from [63.6-79.6] to [70.9-88.7]

The damage per pellet is now 221.75 (RoF 150 * Damage 88.7(X) / 60). You can then multiply this by the number of Pellets to get your DPS.

8 * 221.75 = 1774 DPS

Now the current DPS of the Claymore is 1648 at Level X. Yes, the Claymore has a tighter spread, but with Smart Choke, cover accuracy, and/or class Accuracy bonuses, you are looking at a weapon that is beyond Devastating on Gold and still very overpowered on Platinum.

~Edit~

It was pointed out to me that sustained DPS (DPS factoring in reload time) only increases the disparity between the two weapons.

Gamako said....

The sustained DPS for uncanceled/canceled Claymore fire is 470 / 833 DPS. The sustained DPS for the uncanceled/canceled Piranha is 984 / 1338.6. Seriously, these aren't even close. The Piranha is damage king,
and it's pretty lightweight to boot. That is a serious problem.

Thanks Gamemako


When you add in RoF boosts and/or damage boosts from abilities, you can melt bosses with this weapon faster than any other currently available. This is also a relatively light weapon for this amount of DPS, ranging from 1.5 - .9. It is perfectly capable of being carried by caster classes with minimal CD reduction.

I propose returning it to it's original damage [63.6-79.6] and increasing the weight considerably to keep caster/power based classes from using it without more severe CD consequences, say [2.0 - 1.4] which is the current weight for GPS/Graal.

I love the Piranha, but seriously ever match I play now, I see that everyone is carrying it. I use it on all of my adepts and vanguards because it has no true drawbacks with cover boosts and smart choke. On my Turian Soldier and Destroyer, it is a boss killing machine at long range. I don't want to even get started on how well it works on my GI.

You need to address this now, because it is already getting out of hand.

Chaoswind wrote...

my brothers, I got to ask this simple question...

After watching Black Falcon Down and The Fall of the Krysaean empire; how do you feel?

Honestly
I always said the Krysae was overkill on Infiltrators and I argued that
we needed to reduce the total bonuses infiltrators have on snipers
while also increasing the base damage of all snipes (in an attempt to
balance snipers and make them useful for non infiltrators as well).

However,
instead of my suggestion that would not reduce the DPS of
infiltrators/snipers a whole lot, while also increasing the DPS of
snipers on non infiltrators, bioware did... well this (another junk
gun)...

can't say I want to say anything about the next great gun
on the forums... bioware would take it too far, and I would feel dirty
afterwards...

(like helping your douche friend pick a good girl and then watch him destroy her as a person)[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/sick.png[/smilie]

Black Falcon Down
The Fall of the Krysaean empire

comming soon:

Piranha 3D
Deplorable
Disastrous
DPS:crying:


When Bioware nerfs, they smash to bits...


also The Piranha seems to be unable to land all pellets on anything but the bigger enemies, if anything it only needs a widder spread, no need to reduce its damage.

Modifié par Chaoswind, 25 juillet 2012 - 08:11 .

[Bzilla]

Still don't understand why people are calling for nerfs in a game that isn't PvP. If I don't like a gun I just don't use it. End.

[sh4d0w_d4nc3r]

You honestly have NOTHING better to do with your time OP?

[Bekkael]

WeAreLegion- wrote...

Indeed. I propose all nerfers be shot at dawn and denied a final cigarette. (Or forced to smoke one, in the case of non-smokers!)

Modifié par Bekkael, 25 juillet 2012 - 08:11 .

[P51Mus7ang]

Maybe we should take up a collection and pay Bio to set up a MP on a seperate server for the nerf balls, nerf the crap out of everything every week to keep them happy, hell give them their own forum and keep them out of this one

[landylan]

There are no goods guns like the piranha. If it gets any heavier, I probably won't ever use it again since I like it on cqc casters like the fury and paladin. If anything just give it a very small damage nerf. Things are better left the same. People want piranha nerfed and scimitar buffed....We might as well have the same gun then. Most weapons in this game suck. This isn't some no aim rocket launcher like the krysae.

[Explosaction]

Dude the Piranha is underpowered on gold at level 1. It's hard enough taking out phantoms by ripping their face apart. It's only good against basic enemy's and Boss types.

[FoggyFishburne]

For **** sake... another nerf thread.

Modifié par FoggyFishburne, 25 juillet 2012 - 08:16 .

[ABjerre]

Fauxnormal wrote...

HamSlammer wrote...

you are just the worst kind of person...

Wow, you don't know much about people. Nor have you, apperantly, ever seen the worst kind of person.

Fourteen or fifteen?

He advocates causing agony to a large group of people to cater to his own needs or amusement? That doesn't exactly fit the description of a "good guy greg" either...

[Imp of the Perverse]

Fortack wrote...

dday3six wrote...

Raising the weight will only limit the Piranha's usage by other set ups, however it will not limit it's usage by the classes which are best with it: Infiltrators and Soldiers. As such I feel it's more balanced to have it accessable to other classes.

How does an increase in weight makes the Piranha less interesting for other characters? Isn't a (big) increase in weapon damage, at the cost of marginally slower recharge timers, a good deal? I think most people greatly overrate the importance of cooldowns. The difference between a 3 or a 4 second cooldown makes hardly any difference in most situations whereas the difference between a good and a poor weapon is gigantic.

I tried a raptor (+180% cooldown) and a piranha (+191% cooldown) on my shadow and could definitely tell the difference. Infiltrators have a higher base carrying capacity than adepts, and most (all?) adepts have their final passive reduce pistol weight, not all weapon weight weight, so for them you're looking at +200% vs. +160% or so, which makes a big difference if you're trying to warp->throw for BEs. Making that even worse would make the gun completely out of the question for adepts.

[DarkSpooky]

OP, you claim that this auto shotgun can melt a boss in under what? 10 seconds? Show us. I am assuming that the conditions for this event are stepped in bronze with AP ammo 4 with a class specced for damage/RoF with a shotgun amp 3.

Show us a video proof or shut it.

[Rifneno]

Fauxnormal wrote...

HamSlammer wrote...

you are just the worst kind of person...

Wow, you don't know much about people. Nor have you, apperantly, ever seen the worst kind of person.

Fourteen or fifteen?

I'm pretty sure he was making a Family Guy quote...

[FlamboyantRoy]

This thread is what we secure adults call "d*ck fear"

Modifié par FlamboyantRoy, 25 juillet 2012 - 08:16 .

[TheAdventurer29]

I think the OP's suggestion is more reasonable than what Bioware did to Krysae two days ago.

[Rifneno]

I think they should "balance" DFS's posting abilities personally.