1320 réponses à ce sujet

[wotmaniac]

****in nerfers. The krysae is dead thanks to you. played it today and it was so slow I left mid match.

[BlackoutOmega]

[quote]Kick In The Door wrote...

[quote]death_for_sale wrote...

[quote]Kick In The Door wrote...

[quote]Rebel_Raven wrote...

[quote]Kick In The Door wrote...

[quote]Envious1 wrote...

Someone help me out here, why do people want to nerf weapons?

We are not competing with each other. It's a team effort and nerfing powerful weapons will only make it harder to win.

Where is the advantage in this?[/quote]

Because of something called an inferiority complex. I'm a psych student. I'd have a f*cking field day with video game jocks like the OP.

[/quote]

It's coz Bioware decided it was a brilliant idea to put in a scoreboard that doesn't really tell you how well you contributed to the battle, just how much you killed more than anything else.

It's a blow to the mentalmind to see your score low, and feel like you didn't do jack to help the team.

It's even worse when someone tromps around the map racking up kill after kill after kill while you're struggling just to keep up.

It's just not fun when you feel less than viable. People want balance.

Way I see it though is if you feel less than viable, and then drag people down to your level, what the hell are you doing?![/quote]

Yeah.

But people like the OP have a st*ck up their ass. I'll bet anything his parents never really showed affection towards him. Anything that the OP did was never good enough in the parent's eyes. He most likely came from an Authoritarian household. Where "because I said so" was reason enough to warrant anything. Most likely developed an Avoidant attachment style(indifference to parents/guardians, treats them as strangers), which creates people with low self esteem and insecurity. And I'm willing to bet he wasn't the most poplular kid around, which I'm sure created "difficulties" for him, being the odd ball and all. It all comes from his language and demeanor. I can feel the insecurity just oozing out of his posts, the awkwardness, the betaness.

It's quite disgusting really.  



But that's just speculation, I'll examine him/it some more to see if we can find a way to get that stick out of his ass. 

[/quote]

Actually I came from a rather dysfunctional household with an alcoholic father who beat my mother up. I carried a lot of rage in my teens and let it out on the football field and other sports. I loved my mother very much and had a sort of a love/hate relationship with my father. I was actually somewhat popular because I was a 'jock'. I went to community college because I couldn't afford more than that, since I helped support my mother after my father died. I majored in computer electronics and went on to work for Texas Instruments, Dell, and Apple. Most of the time I was actually a supervisor in charge of a group of technical support people.

I am sorry that I may not fit what you were aiming towards and I have to say I am somewhat concerned that a person interested in helping people overcome their fears and foibles would consider them to be 'disgusting'.

[/quote]

Didn't read it because I don't really care, all I know is people have it a lot worse than you and also dont feel compelled to share their sob story with everyone for remorse.

[Kyerea]

Here's a pro-tip: Go play the game and stop complaining about everything being OP and needing nerfs.

[Urdnot_SahVaj]

How about we just take away all of the guns and classes and have only one gun and class. The class has only passive powers to not be OP but can have it's skin changed to look your favorite race, and the gun does close to no damage and receives no mods so there can be no way to take a basically good weapon and make it "OP". Then I do believe all will be happy with the boring balance.

[GroverA125]

death_for_sale wrote...

GroverA125 wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...


Could you post the calculations you used to get to those numbers? I don't think they look right.

Lv. X Claymore Damage (with HCB) is 2060. DPS with RCs included is 1041.3. Against armor, that's 839. Could otherwise be modified with shredder, but that's another story.

I only have a Lv. III Pirahna (with HCB), doing the math I have (15.3 damage increase per level, 15.3 x 7 = 107.1, 107.1 + 561 = 668.1, 1059.1 / 561 x 668.1 = 1261. I was on by a rough shot, which was an estimate.)

Shotguns that have a lot of damage always have a more impressive DPS than their actual workings. Expect at least 1/4 of your shots to be off target, so drop the DPS by 25%, from 1261 to about 1000. Then you have to think that it will be worse than that at maximum RPM, where your boomshot is bouncing everywhere and so are your pellets. With an automatic shotgun or one with High-RoF, you don't get the time to line up your shots if you are going at max RoF. Looking at it that way, the claymore is superior, in that you are capable of putting accurate shots on target and achieving that RoF.

do the math without mods.

Claymore damage is 833, with 631 against armor. Expecting that between 1-2 pellets go stray, that's a damage of 728.88 - 624.75, with 552.13 - 473.25 against armor

Pirahna damage is 1003.9, with 438 against armor Expecting that between 2-3 pellets go stray (seeing as it's full auto with a fair bit of recoil), that's 752.93 - 627.43, with 328.5 - 109.5 against armor.

As this shows, the Pirahna clearly has disadvantage when facing armor, something the Claymore doesn't have nearly as much of. This in an inaccurate test, as there's no way of knowing the full effect recoil will have on pellet spread in a combat scenario at all ranges. But look at it this way: The claymore will be scoring the same damage at nearly twice the range of the pirahna. Plus, as I said before, the claymore has greater ammo efficiency, which is added onto it's list of bonuses. The Claymore clearly has the more advantages than shortcomings over the Pirahna.

[BlackoutOmega]

wotmaniac wrote...

****in nerfers. The krysae is dead thanks to you. played it today and it was so slow I left mid match.

Bioware mugged the Krysae and then beat it up and left it bleeding in the gutter.
And then out of nowhere, about a week later when the wounds finally started to heal, Bioware broke into the hospital and put a bullet in the Krysaes head, due to their contract with whining balance kiddies.

[Kyerea]

Even I have to admit the Krysae nerf this week was extremely ridiculous and uncalled for. And I don't even use or like the damn weapon for that matter.

[FlowCytometry]

sigh.. these forums...

The Pir didn't need the buff it got. I doubt it needs much tuning beyond reverting that.

[Big Bad]

Until somebody determines how many pellets land on target at any given distance, the DPS stats of the piranha provide little, if any, data that could be used to determine whether or not it is OP.

[Felhand]

I call shinanigans on those pictures showing pellet spread, iv always got a choke/shredder combo on my paranha and I can tell you anything past a meter is a massive pellet spread, if you want to see this in action put incendiary ammo on it causes the pellets to leave a brief smoke trail. At about six or seven meters 'most' of my pellets were hitting an atlas, but were talking from head to freakin toe.

[TehMerc]

BlackoutOmega wrote...
Didn't read it because I don't really care, all I know is people have it a lot worse than you and also dont feel compelled to share their sob story with everyone for remorse.

**** 1 makes up a diagnosis with the 6 months of Psych 101 he's taken.

Op then dismisses that diagnosis.

**** 2 then accuses Op of attention whoring.

Yeah, I think I need to get off of here. Hope you actually do so Blackout, you're becoming more of a dick the longer you stay on here.

[Kyerea]

GroverA125 wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

GroverA125 wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...


Could you post the calculations you used to get to those numbers? I don't think they look right.

Lv. X Claymore Damage (with HCB) is 2060. DPS with RCs included is 1041.3. Against armor, that's 839. Could otherwise be modified with shredder, but that's another story.

I only have a Lv. III Pirahna (with HCB), doing the math I have (15.3 damage increase per level, 15.3 x 7 = 107.1, 107.1 + 561 = 668.1, 1059.1 / 561 x 668.1 = 1261. I was on by a rough shot, which was an estimate.)

Shotguns that have a lot of damage always have a more impressive DPS than their actual workings. Expect at least 1/4 of your shots to be off target, so drop the DPS by 25%, from 1261 to about 1000. Then you have to think that it will be worse than that at maximum RPM, where your boomshot is bouncing everywhere and so are your pellets. With an automatic shotgun or one with High-RoF, you don't get the time to line up your shots if you are going at max RoF. Looking at it that way, the claymore is superior, in that you are capable of putting accurate shots on target and achieving that RoF.

do the math without mods.

Claymore damage is 833, with 631 against armor. Expecting that between 1-2 pellets go stray, that's a damage of 728.88 - 624.75, with 552.13 - 473.25 against armor

Pirahna damage is 1003.9, with 438 against armor Expecting that between 2-3 pellets go stray (seeing as it's full auto with a fair bit of recoil), that's 752.93 - 627.43, with 328.5 - 109.5 against armor.

As this shows, the Pirahna clearly has disadvantage when facing armor, something the Claymore doesn't have nearly as much of. This in an inaccurate test, as there's no way of knowing the full effect recoil will have on pellet spread in a combat scenario at all ranges. But look at it this way: The claymore will be scoring the same damage at nearly twice the range of the pirahna. Plus, as I said before, the claymore has greater ammo efficiency, which is added onto it's list of bonuses. The Claymore clearly has the more advantages than shortcomings over the Pirahna.

The Pirahna also has the added disadvantage of having terrible range naturally, since it's a assault shotgun. So unless you have a choke on, your pellet spread will literally be sneezing out of the barrel. Which added is just fine when using it in CQC, but the fact that it needs a choke just to have the mid-range accuracy of a non-choke Claymore is a serious AND balanced disadvantage of the Pirahna. It's penetration value sucks pretty hard as well.

[Pride Demon]

usctrojanbulldog wrote...

Pride Demon wrote...

usctrojanbulldog wrote...

HA!!!!!!!!! I just replicated this picture.

A) Yes, He's using the Piranha.

You have to be: 1)in cover and 2) have your accuracy bonuses MAXED "I'm talking both class passives and equipment." In other words - you won't be this effective during actual play.....EVER!!!!!!!!!!!

Nice test OP. Lets see you manipulate some more data to fit your erroneous point.

Actually OP has been very up front...
Look at the picture at the top of page 17, those show the Claymore is more accurate, which is a point in favour of those opposing him/her somewhat, yet he/she freely posted it without any problem or manipulation...

You may disagree with what he/she says, but from that POW he showed commendable honesty, you can not deny him/her that, for it's there for all to see...

EDIT: damn FTL forum... :/

My point is his position and test are erroneous. Without his carefully controlled laboratory environment and manipulation of conditions, this weapon will NEVER replicate the depicted performance during gameplay use.

This, in many circles, can be called "misleading data". Knowingly submitting "misleading data" to support one's point is not looked highly upon in the scientific community. This is not evidence of the weapon's accuracy. It's evidence of what the weapon can do when:

1)max out passive accuracy
2)max out equipment accuracy
3)dive into cover
4)fire once
5)take a picture of the spread

In real game circumstances:

1) Player pulls it out while running around a corner
2) Anything beyond 6 feet is lucky to have A pellet hit them
3) Not everyone is playing a Geth
4) Not everyone is playing a turian
5) Very few times (unless you're playing FBWGG) do I see people firing this weapon exclusively from cover
6) Very few times will you be firing only one shot.
7) Very few people will ever max out accuracy equipment

Must I go further..... And he didn't explain how he got his results and if you look very closely, the border of the picture is gone; why would one crop that out?

True enough, many good points... But what you say applies to the Claymore picture too...
His comparison may be in "controlled enviroment", but so long as that parameter doesn't deliberately shift from one test to the next  the comparison is valid to me... After all, the point was showing which was more accurate...
Now if he had, for instance, taken out the smart choke in the Claymore pic or something like that I may agree with you, but that's not the case, and even if it was, the result was still in his/her disfavour.
If he/she was so determined to be right he/she would definitely not posted that second pic, at least not as it is...

[UserUnknown85]

GroverA125 wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

GroverA125 wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...


Could you post the calculations you used to get to those numbers? I don't think they look right.

Lv. X Claymore Damage (with HCB) is 2060. DPS with RCs included is 1041.3. Against armor, that's 839. Could otherwise be modified with shredder, but that's another story.

I only have a Lv. III Pirahna (with HCB), doing the math I have (15.3 damage increase per level, 15.3 x 7 = 107.1, 107.1 + 561 = 668.1, 1059.1 / 561 x 668.1 = 1261. I was on by a rough shot, which was an estimate.)

Shotguns that have a lot of damage always have a more impressive DPS than their actual workings. Expect at least 1/4 of your shots to be off target, so drop the DPS by 25%, from 1261 to about 1000. Then you have to think that it will be worse than that at maximum RPM, where your boomshot is bouncing everywhere and so are your pellets. With an automatic shotgun or one with High-RoF, you don't get the time to line up your shots if you are going at max RoF. Looking at it that way, the claymore is superior, in that you are capable of putting accurate shots on target and achieving that RoF.

do the math without mods.

Claymore damage is 833, with 631 against armor. Expecting that between 1-2 pellets go stray, that's a damage of 728.88 - 624.75, with 552.13 - 473.25 against armor

Pirahna damage is 1003.9, with 438 against armor Expecting that between 2-3 pellets go stray (seeing as it's full auto with a fair bit of recoil), that's 752.93 - 627.43, with 328.5 - 109.5 against armor.

As this shows, the Pirahna clearly has disadvantage when facing armor, something the Claymore doesn't have nearly as much of. This in an inaccurate test, as there's no way of knowing the full effect recoil will have on pellet spread in a combat scenario at all ranges. But look at it this way: The claymore will be scoring the same damage at nearly twice the range of the pirahna. Plus, as I said before, the claymore has greater ammo efficiency, which is added onto it's list of bonuses. The Claymore clearly has the more advantages than shortcomings over the Pirahna.

Someone here is delusional... Max out damage, and on gold, a GI needs 2 cloak cycles or 4 shots, 2 of them cloaked, to take down an atlas. Piranha needs a little over 1 clip, or 1.5 cloak cycle. There is no comparing the two of them. I'm a huge claymore fan, but the piranha puts it into the dirt, in pretty much every category...

[Urdnot_SahVaj]

I want to take a Piranha to this thread...

[Hero 4 Rent]

Huh. Folks seem to be one step removed from calling a full blown witchhunt on the original post here. I realize this will hardly earn me any points from the enraged mob but.. the op does touch on a noteworthy fact here-- the Piranha is flipping *strong*.

If it is in fact OP or not, I can't rightly say. But I can say in my experience that unless somebody is a spot-on-crack-shot with the Claymore, i.e. never missing a foe, the performance between that and the Piranha shotgun is not remotely close. The upside to using the massively heavy (yet oddly tiny) CM shotgun is that when you pull the trigger in front of bad things, they are supposed to go away. If you miss, then all bets are off. (Also see the holy law of Claymore no. 1: Thou shalt not miss.) Big price, big risk, big reward--and not a weapon you typically slap into the hands of any power based type, given the obvious weight constraints.

The Piranha on the other hand, can rip out just as much damage on the fly, while hip firing/seeking cover in a matter of moments. Yes, it takes longer to empty the whole clip-- but not a whole heck of a lot. And for all the cries of accuracy, spread and whatnot don't make a whole lot of sense to me, as the weapon is designed to be a roomsweeper, and as such at short to medium range it melts things in a hail of staggering buckshot.

So. Piranha deals amazing damage, accuracy is pretty much a nonissue, useless at long range, lightweight, with a pretty solid clip size.

The Claymore deals amazing damage, accuracy is paramount, reasonably solid at mid-long range with a grip attachment, extremely heavy, with relatively small clip size.

Folks can sharpen their pitchforks all they like, but after hammering Platinum difficulty the last week, the obvious results are pretty difficult to deny.. The Piranha has, simply put, far more potential for less invested effort. The Claymore is great, and I shall not stop using it any time soon, but I must admit that generally speaking the Piranha is a more effective weapon that more character classes can access.

Do I think this calls for a nerf? Nah. But I think it calls for some recognition: it makes most of the other shotguns lackluster in comparison.

I mean, this was just watching the results of the Piranha and one of the most potent shotguns of the pack going to work in various matches. Other noteworthy rare shotguns such as the Geth Plasma shotgun, the Graal are still quite solid and fun to use and the Asari shogun has it's niche as well, especially with the power of reload canceling. The Wraith and the Talon still feel pretty comparable to the Piranha, but not as powerful, certainly slower-- and they are ultra rare, which is unfortunate. Takes forever and a day to build those guys up, and anybody saying otherwise is cheating, or selling something.

Those are the 'good' shotguns. The others won't likely see much attention outside of Bronze and the occasional Silver difficulty settings, which is a shame.

If the Piranha is to be the new shiny example of awesome for shotgun foolery (aside from stubborn fools like myself that prefer the single shot variant) it would be nice if the other shotguns were elevated near its status. Rather than reducing the Piranha to a molten slag of garbage, I'd much prefer devs to buff the old toys so we can lovingly use them alongside the new.

Also, holy heck, apologies for the wall of text.

[Kalas Magnus]

BlackoutOmega wrote...

wotmaniac wrote...

****in nerfers. The krysae is dead thanks to you. played it today and it was so slow I left mid match.

Bioware mugged the Krysae and then beat it up and left it bleeding in the gutter.
And then out of nowhere, about a week later when the wounds finally started to heal, Bioware broke into the hospital and put a bullet in the Krysaes head, due to their contract with whining balance kiddies.

I loved that analogy.

[BlackoutOmega]

death_for_sale wrote...

That is a serious problem.


You need to address this now, because it is already getting out of hand.

Really? Because all I know is that i've been having fun with my Piranha, same with everyone else. I really fail to see the problem here...

[Fujiky]

[quote]WeAreLegion- wrote...

[/quote]

[Kyerea]

Because it's a sob story on the internet. No one care. You especially didn't see his underlying non-literal demeanor when he stated your parents never had affection for you. If you take that even slightly serious on the internet, then you are doomed for failure on here.

On top of all that, you are requesting an item that was buffed by BW a day after it's release, has only existed for a week, and is "OP" if and when used in extremely specific ways by characters that are hardly the most popular at the moment while completely ignoring that the Claymore has a naturally tighter spread without a choke at mid-range then the Piranha does. Let's all not forget the Reegar either, which has the capability to one-clip a Brute on a Quarian Male Infiltrator. Does that make it broken? Or it's largely anti-shield nature? Hell no, damn thing has little to no decent range and very little ammo. And the hilarious thing? All three of these shotguns are Rares, meaning anyone can easily max them to X given enough time/credits. Yet you are complaining about this? The Piranha, Claymore, Reegar and GPS are meant to be as great as they are, because they are Rare Shotguns. The only issue I have is that the Wraith NEEDS a buff to compensate for their clear superiority. If all of your "points" doesn't seem absurd to you or anyone else in this thread; then there is nothing left to discuss at this point. You are a complainer that gets mad when someone outscores you with something you believe is broken because they are outperforming you in the kill-department with said weapon.

I have said it before, and I will damn well say it again. The individual-player scoreboard needs to go.

Modifié par Kyerea, 25 juillet 2012 - 09:50 .

[SkreeMalicious]

WeAreLegion- wrote...

[FlamboyantRoy]

BlackoutOmega wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

That is a serious problem.


You need to address this now, because it is already getting out of hand.

Really? Because all I know is that i've been having fun with my Piranha, same with everyone else. I really fail to see the problem here...

What are you talking about? This problem knows no bounds! Good weapons are simply not allowed in ME3 multiplayer at least not to the majority of the community. Gotta keep you in check. It's eerily similar to the haves vs. the have nots. Or that 1% vs 99%. It's that same arrogant, patronizing I AM BETTER THAN YOU LISSEN WUT I SAY!!!! mentality.

Sickening.