1320 réponses à ce sujet

[Gamemako]

Computron2000 wrote...

The OP is correct. You need to read what he is saying (and insulting people when you KNOW your maths is in the drain is terrible).

63.6 damage is from Piranha I before the buff. After the buff which happened about a day after it came out, it became 88.7 at Piranha X.

The total damage is 221.75 because the piranha is an auto weapon. This means it fires continously hence RoF is multiplied by the Piranha X damage.

Yeah, he did it sort of an ass-backwards way. It's easier to think of it as per-pellet damage (88.7) * number of pellets (8) = 709.6 damage per shot. Then consider the rate of fire: 150 rounds per minute / 60 seconds per minute = 2.5 rounds per second. Then multiply the two together and you have 709.5 damage per shot * 2.5 shots per second = 1774 damage per second.

[Kenadian]

Chriss5688 wrote...

Kenadian wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

At the very least, it's weight should be increased. It's kind of ridiculous just how light it is. A weight increase with a moderate decrease to the rate of fire would be the best idea imo. The weapon would still kick ass anyway.

I really love the Piranha and the concept behind it, but I simply can't deny it's more than a bit crazy at the moment.

If there's anything that should be done to it, it's just to remove the buff that was given to it last week. People asking for more can shove their heads where the sun never shines.

Oh? Perhaps it should be as heavy as the Javelin with the RoF of the Falcon? I'd say that makes absolute sense.

So long as each pellet hit like a Javelin, I'd go for that.

[Urdnot_SahVaj]

Air Quotes wrote...

Chriss5688 wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

At the very least, it's weight should be increased. It's kind of ridiculous just how light it is. A weight increase with a moderate decrease to the rate of fire would be the best idea imo. The weapon would still kick ass anyway.

I really love the Piranha and the concept behind it, but I simply can't deny it's more than a bit crazy at the moment.

Indeed. A weight increase and make it's rate of fire the same as the Scimitar's, if not a bit lower.

Weight increase will do nothing for GI, or Destroyer. Lower rate of fire will not make a difference either, because they have class boosts for it. 

Leave the Piranha alone. You people get a weapon that is powerful and fun to use. And then ruin it. It's not the Krysae. Leave it ALONE. 

Thank you Air. Jesus.

[Inedible Food]

The gun just came out a week ago, at least wait a while. It's a great and fun gun to use, don't nerf it -.-

[WandererRTF]

I really don't care what you think of tests... However you can make Piranha just as accurate as any other gun - see this post. Could add that the MM & SC test has full clip (8 shots) emptied at the wall + 1 shot from second clip. Not from cover.

Claiming that it is the most inaccurate shotgun is valid statement, however it is equally valid to state that you can remove that hindrance even with Piranha. So to state that Piranha can not hit at long range is folly regardless of its base (in)accuracy. I think Piranha deals ludicrous damage at the moment at proper engagement ranges at the hands of any one who actually bothers to use it properly. Is it too good, dunno. While low damage per pellet makes is susceptible to damage reduction armor is not that common - apart from Platinum. It it still has full effect on shields for example. I really like the full auto shotgun though, but i think it will be downgraded a bit. Of course like BW stated (judging from the Infiltrator comments some time ago), the more people use it instead of other weapons the more likely it is for BW to nerf it.

And yes by going without any accuracy aids you can actually miss a grouching target at a distance of a less than 10m just by aiming exactly at the target with Piranha. On the other hand you can shoot through the mailslot at distances of at least 15m with it as well if you care to try without luck even being a factor.

PS. The pic at Giant was taken at distance of 7m. Comparison with all relevant shotties see this post.

[UserUnknown85]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Well now you're adding in way more conditions than you originally specified.  You initially made the claim based on a GI maxed for damage using the Piranha.  Now you're adding in gear and consumables plus proxy mines.  I imagine we're talking Level IV consumables here?

Well, what did you think "max damage" meant? Of course it means all powers toward damage, as well as gear and consumables... It seemed pretty self-explanatory to me... As for proxy mines, notice how I was speaking in terms of "cloak cycle" which kinda implies the whole proxy mine thing...

[Meatiershower]

-1

[Atheosis]

I think it's obvious the gun is too light for its damage output.

[funfryfrenzy]

this is rather stupid...

This is a COOP game and guess what... people still ask for nerfs eventhough they arent getting shot at with Said weapons....

No one is ever happy. Thanks for ruining a perfectically good game with your non-sense

[MacGarrus]

Impulse and Compulse wrote...

Absolutely not.

For ****'s sake you people, stop focusing all of your damn time on guns that are moderately better than alternatives in a large amount of situations and start putting it on the massive amount of guns that are completely underpowered. Nerfing one gun doesn't make the game more interesting, since there's nothing stopping you from using the other weapons. Buffing a gun makes the game a hell of a lot more fun and interesting, since it totally makes you rethink the way you play.

And the DPS isn't that big of a factor. The freaking Reegar has a massive DPS, but I can't use the damn thing because the only class that I found I can do well with it happens to be incredibly bugged. The biggest stopper is armor; the claymore X does 206 damage per shot, while the Piranha does 88.7. Armor on gold takes off 50 points of damage per shot, and I'm pretty sure platinum is even higher. Unless you're using the proper mods, gear, and consumable equipments, the piranha exchanges lighter weight and a slightly higher DPS for drastically shortened range and minimal effectiveness against armor.

I actually tried it out to see how it performed at near optimal spec for my Kroguard on Gold Cerberus. It was able to melt Atlases in a couple clips easily at point blank. No help from anyone else. This was with Shotgun Rail Amp 3, Incendiary rounds 3, Barrel and ArPen mods both maxed and Piranha X. Not to mention I could charge more often than I could with a Reegar, something like 190% cooldown. So "minimal effectiveness against armor" isn't entirely true. I'd say it's quite brutal vs armoured enemies since they generally have big hitboxes for all pellets to land.

As for shortened range, it's no shorter than the Reegar really, it gets better on classes with accuracy and stability buffs though which the Reegar doesn't. The TSol can use it across map.

I'd say the best way to fix it is give it a damage penalty when the target is so far away. This is a CQC weapon so that's the best way I can think of to keep it useful and prevent the OP'ness from persisting at the same time.

[Kyerea]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

UserUnknown85 wrote...

GroverA125 wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

GroverA125 wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...


Could you post the calculations you used to get to those numbers? I don't think they look right.

Lv. X Claymore Damage (with HCB) is 2060. DPS with RCs included is 1041.3. Against armor, that's 839. Could otherwise be modified with shredder, but that's another story.

I only have a Lv. III Pirahna (with HCB), doing the math I have (15.3 damage increase per level, 15.3 x 7 = 107.1, 107.1 + 561 = 668.1, 1059.1 / 561 x 668.1 = 1261. I was on by a rough shot, which was an estimate.)

Shotguns that have a lot of damage always have a more impressive DPS than their actual workings. Expect at least 1/4 of your shots to be off target, so drop the DPS by 25%, from 1261 to about 1000. Then you have to think that it will be worse than that at maximum RPM, where your boomshot is bouncing everywhere and so are your pellets. With an automatic shotgun or one with High-RoF, you don't get the time to line up your shots if you are going at max RoF. Looking at it that way, the claymore is superior, in that you are capable of putting accurate shots on target and achieving that RoF.

do the math without mods.

Claymore damage is 833, with 631 against armor. Expecting that between 1-2 pellets go stray, that's a damage of 728.88 - 624.75, with 552.13 - 473.25 against armor

Pirahna damage is 1003.9, with 438 against armor Expecting that between 2-3 pellets go stray (seeing as it's full auto with a fair bit of recoil), that's 752.93 - 627.43, with 328.5 - 109.5 against armor.

As this shows, the Pirahna clearly has disadvantage when facing armor, something the Claymore doesn't have nearly as much of. This in an inaccurate test, as there's no way of knowing the full effect recoil will have on pellet spread in a combat scenario at all ranges. But look at it this way: The claymore will be scoring the same damage at nearly twice the range of the pirahna. Plus, as I said before, the claymore has greater ammo efficiency, which is added onto it's list of bonuses. The Claymore clearly has the more advantages than shortcomings over the Pirahna.

Someone here is delusional... Max out damage, and on gold, a GI needs 2 cloak cycles or 4 shots, 2 of them cloaked, to take down an atlas. Piranha needs a little over 1 clip, or 1.5 cloak cycle. There is no comparing the two of them. I'm a huge claymore fan, but the piranha puts it into the dirt, in pretty much every category...

I'm not sure if you're playing the same game that I am.  A little over 1 clip to take down an Atlas?  Please provide the numbers you are using to make this claim...

Wait, the Piranha can take down an Atlas in Gold/Plat in one clip? ****, my Piranha X with EB and Shredder Mod being fired from four feet away on a Geth Hunter must be a dud then.

UserUnknown85 wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Well now you're adding in way more conditions than you originally specified.  You initially made the claim based on a GI maxed for damage using the Piranha.  Now you're adding in gear and consumables plus proxy mines.  I imagine we're talking Level IV consumables here?

Well, what did you think "max damage" meant? Of course it means all powers toward damage, as well as gear and consumables... It seemed pretty self-explanatory to me... As for proxy mines, notice how I was speaking in terms of "cloak cycle" which kinda implies the whole proxy mine thing...

 

HAHAHAHA, oh man you'd be a terrible researcher. Lrn2conductexperiments with realistic control variables. XD

Dude that's not even close to the actual clip size needed to down a Atlas on a Geth Hunter just using cloaked burst dps on a Pirahna X with EB V and Shredder Mod on Gold/Plat. With no equipment used mind you or any consummables. That's how you conduct experiments.

Modifié par Kyerea, 25 juillet 2012 - 10:33 .

[Rebel_Raven]

Casters never will get a decent goddamned weapon will they?

Don't bring up goddamned pistols. Are you REALLY going to shoot a brute, or a banshee, or an atlas with them with ANY confidence in hurting them? They're largely just place holders coz we have to use some kind of weapon.

A weapon that's light is pretty necessary.
A weapon that's worth shooting at a boss is really nice.

Combine these two? It's gotta be effing nerfed coz a minority of classes can make it into a super weapon!

This crap ticks me off. It's stupid! Maybe if I could hit bosses with powers and see their health decrease at all...

[A Wild Snorlax]

Leave the guns alone allready you scubs.

[TheKillerAngel]

It's the job of the Turian Soldier to turn inaccurate weapons into long range beasts. I've been doing this with the Claymore for the past several months and nobody seems to have caught onto it.

That doesn't make him or Marksman overpowered.

[funfryfrenzy]

A Wild Snorlax wrote...

Leave the guns alone allready you scubs.

not going to happen.. not until every weapon is barely viable for bronze.

[JimmyBazooka]

How about you go F* yourself with nerfing?

[Aerialight]

Better gweapons? Why would Bioware POSSIBLY have given us these.

I mean, It's not like we got platinum difficulty or anything.

Now take your stupid idea of wanting guns to be nerfed and get off this game kind sir.

[GroverA125]

You know what I find funny? All this complaints about how it's so overpowered, and yet nobody notices the elephant in the room, that biotics and tech can deal the same damage in a shorter span, without thousands of credits worth of packs and weapons.

Weapons as a whole are rather underpowered. Things that leave the weaponsmasters in a corner rarely mean much trouble for a team of biotic artillery, yet the amount of complaint threads on said classes is minimal... Everyone just looks at a single weapon and decides "I'm going to sit on the forums for a couple of weeks and whine about how OP this is", without going out and using everything else.

And all of this crap about "Ideal circumstances" is pointless. Chances are in a proper match on proper difficulties, you're not going to be anywhere near "ideal" circumstances. On platinum, you're not going to have the time to get your enemy into a position where you're dealing 1125% your usual damage. You're going to be shooting until whatever's in front of you's dead, then you're going to do it again, and again, then you're going to have to escort a drone, then you're going to have to do it while three banshees try to bull-rush you, but you're never going to be doing it with your mythical "ideal circumstances". Take away all of your "if you're sat like this while looking at this" rubbish and consider it like you would in the game, where things won't be ideal, and your enemies aren't going to give two damns about <insert mathematical equation/strategic numerical system here>.

[Grunt_Platform]

Piranha's a little extreme, but I think it's fine as is. It takes some work to actually get real damage out of it. I'd say it's just on par with the Claymore.

What we need is for the other weapons to be buffed. The recent Mattock buff was a nice start.

[T41rdEye]

I finally found the perfect shotgun for my Kroguard and you want to Nerf it? Shame on you. The things range is worse than the Reegar. Unless you are point blank,a lot of the pellets aren't going to connect. Your logic and math is flawed.

[D2k205]

There are only a few weapons that are usable for gold and platinum.

Even worse that people are constantly crying to nerf things making things more tedious. I bet there are very few here that know anything about balancing things or how to even make a game fun and they are either outspoken or remain silent.

Making every single weapon too weak to get anything done in the game is not fun; unless you have the losing is fun mentality. Still there are people who can gather up and spout out DPS calculations and pull up charts to look like they know what they are talking about. In the end they are more concerned at pulling everyone along with their pseudo intellectual and more than likely awful vision of game balance and mechanics rather than making something which is fun.

Meanwhile there are more than half the guns in the game which are not usable on gold and instead of focusing on bringing more guns up to a standardized level of power, these people focus on that ONE GUN instead of trying to find a standardized game model. With this mentality every gun that becomes practical to use on higher difficulties will be nerfed and gun play will return back to being a tedious chore.

Furthermore this is a PvAI co-op game, if a weapon is too powerful who is getting shafted harder? You? The computer?

Since the computer can't complain they are getting beaten so badly someone else has to do it for them! If your reason for complaining is because someone is doing better than you there are several ways to deal with the situation rather than whining, but since the majority of the population on here are completely incapable of solving problems and only know how to whine, why bother asking them to stop? It's not worth the trouble and they are probably more than happy to hide behind moderators, their holy grail of 'codes of conduct', and shut down completely rather than dealing with the situation.

However in the end if you keep letting them get their way you will end up with an awful game which can never be made fun or satisfying because every time something sticks out too far even in a positive way which benefits all participants in the game relative to the game objective(s) there will be someone who can't handle that, and for whatever distorted and juvenile reasons they will complain.

OP appears to be such a person. <_<

[Rebel_Raven]

GroverA125 wrote...

You know what I find funny? All this complaints about how it's so overpowered, and yet nobody notices the elephant in the room, that biotics and tech can deal the same damage in a shorter span, without thousands of credits worth of packs and weapons.

Weapons as a whole are rather underpowered. Things that leave the weaponsmasters in a corner rarely mean much trouble for a team of biotic artillery, yet the amount of complaint threads on said classes is minimal... Everyone just looks at a single weapon and decides "I'm going to sit on the forums for a couple of weeks and whine about how OP this is", without going out and using everything else.

And all of this crap about "Ideal circumstances" is pointless. Chances are in a proper match on proper difficulties, you're not going to be anywhere near "ideal" circumstances. On platinum, you're not going to have the time to get your enemy into a position where you're dealing 1125% your usual damage. You're going to be shooting until whatever's in front of you's dead, then you're going to do it again, and again, then you're going to have to escort a drone, then you're going to have to do it while three banshees try to bull-rush you, but you're never going to be doing it with your mythical "ideal circumstances". Take away all of your "if you're sat like this while looking at this" rubbish and consider it like you would in the game, where things won't be ideal, and your enemies aren't going to give two damns about <insert mathematical equation/strategic numerical system here>.

I'm sorry, I've never seen a biotic solo a banshee in any quick method. I've seen a Vorcha with a regar/flamer combo oblitterate a banshee.

 Engineers? Forget about it. Maybe a demolisher burning ammo packs could do it.

If you wanna manage it, you need heavy weapons, and thus you take a hit to your powers.

Aside from the Fury, and even then I doubt this, can you name a single class that can reliably hurt a shield/barrier + armor boss with their powers alone? I've never seen this.

[DrakeFZX3]

Like I said before, rather than calling for nerfs on these perceived "OP" guns, how bout bringing less used underpowered guns up to stuff?

What about calling attention to the guns nobody uses? Nerfing guns that some people perceive that everybody else uses is going about it the wrong way. Because all you end up doing is getting rid of guns people like to use and then they will simply move on to the next viable gun until that gets called out on being OP.

Until what? Until every gun is less than optimal and viable on platinum? Yeahhhhh no thanks.