1320 réponses à ce sujet

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Gamemako wrote...

Exactly.

BioWare didn't nerf Infiltrators because of the threads here, they nerfed Infiltrators because more than a third of all Gold players were Infiltrators. Everyone here should come to know why it needs to be and why it will be nerfed, but whining about it won't help: the data will show that it is just too damn powerful.

If the data will speak for itself, then what exactly is the point of threads like this?  You tell people not to "whine" because it will be nerfed anyway, but if it will be nerfed anyway, then why whine about how it needs to be nerfed?

[CitizenThom]

Gamemako wrote...

CitizenThom wrote...

It's not twice the damage. The rate
of fire looks to be about 10% better than the scimitar. I tried the
Scimitar and think it serves the purpose better for me, I can still spam
powers with the Scimitar which I can't do with the Pirahnna. But forget
you heard that from me, because then a few of you yokles will want to
nerf the Scimitar... when the Scimitar, Disciple and Talon should all
get a little bit of a boost.

Respectfully, we have the exact data. The Piranha is just over twice the damage per shot (709.6 versus 353.6) and has a fire rate exactly 50% higher (150 versus 100). The weight of the Piranha is 0.9 while the weight of the Scimitar is 0.7.

That's not what the stats show in the game interface. Where does your 'exact' data come from?

The weight of the Pirahana is 66% of power recharge time heavier than the scimitar, per the in game display.
The rate of fire is approximately 10% based on the red bar on the in game display.
The damage is I think 20% better based on the red bar on the game display.

Additionally, there are no "nerfers". There are balancers and anti-balancers, and the balancers are the ones asking for buffs to the underpowered Scimitar and Disciple. The anti-balancers complain about every thread that shows up which says any weapon is out of balance, either low ("u just not not how to use it") or high ("nerf all the funs!").

There are plenty of nerfers. Afterall there are a variety fo ways to acheive balance. One method assumes the pie can get bigger to everyone's benefit... the other insists that the pie cannot get any bigger, and that it must be distributed equally, which can only be done by punishing whoever happens to have the slightly bigger slice of pie. The latter methodology is preferred by nerfers, the former is preferred people who are more interested in having fun with the game than in making sure no one else can have fun with the game.

The original poster thought it was more important to cut down one gun, than to raise other guns up to it's level, so he definately comes across as a nerfer.

[Father_Jerusalem]

death_for_sale wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Gamemako wrote...

Exactly.

BioWare didn't nerf Infiltrators because of the threads here, they nerfed Infiltrators because more than a third of all Gold players were Infiltrators. Everyone here should come to know why it needs to be and why it will be nerfed, but whining about it won't help: the data will show that it is just too damn powerful.

If the data will speak for itself, then what exactly is the point of threads like this?  You tell people not to "whine" because it will be nerfed anyway, but if it will be nerfed anyway, then why whine about how it needs to be nerfed?

The point of the thread is that if we can head off the huge weapon breaking nerf things will be much better. If you recall, the reegar was getting a ton of balance threads and BW made a small adjustment to it. No one wanted to put out as many threads on the Krysae and...well, I think you can see what happened there.

I don't want to destroy the weapon, I just want to head off the BW nerf that is going to happen later with a lighter version.

Sure you don't.

[Deviean]

Imp of the Perverse wrote...

For grins I started looking around for an alternate weapon to use on my piranha toting geth infiltrator, and decided on the hurricane I unlocked during that last event. I hadn't really used it since it weighs a lot more than my hornet, and ULM is broken. On my GI a level 1 hurricane gives me 5% better cooldowns than a level 10 piranha. With about the same mods (both get the armor piercing mod, but I use a heatsink on the hurricane and a smart choke on the piranha), ammo, and gear, it is slightly weaker against bosses, but still chews through them in a hurry. It absolutely shreds lower level enemies though, and from considerably greater distances. Is anybody screaming to nerf the hurricane?

But the Piranha isn't a "Promotional" weapon, right ?  Or even "Ultra Rare", for that matter.  I don't care about the fate of this weapon, but i think it's kind of crazy for the effort needed to obtain it though.

[darkblade]

death_for_sale wrote...

Muhkida wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

Ok, is it ok if I do it with a class that has accuracy boosts?

How about looking at it the other way, try using the Piranha with a class that can't spec it to increase accuracy, dmg, rate of fire, etc....like a Vanguard.  See how overpowering it's going to be for you when you're up close and personal to something that can IK you.

Now the Krysae?  Sure, the GI can make this mini rocket into a death machine from afar.  But the other classes outside the Infiltrator could still use it and kill a Phantom with 3 shots on Gold.  Probably why it got the needed balance change....that and a ridiculous hitbox.

Quit trying to compare these two guns as the same because they're not.

The problem that you and everyone else doesn't seem to understand or want to recognize is that it is going to be used by classes that can exploit it's strengths.

All infiltrators will use it over the Claymore because it provides more damage and more utility, most of all the GI.

Turians will use it, both soldier and sentinel because of racial boosts.

Human Soldiers will use it because it is similar to the claymore in damage and with AR they will get 16 shots with no reload.

Destroyers will use it because it kills on that class.

So yeah, it may not be as OP on a few caster classes. I am sure that with everyone using it, it won't get nerfed like the last gun everyone was using.....

Wait...so your argument is that the WEAPON is very powerful on classes/races made to optimize WEAPONS....

I kinda thought that was the point.

[Hulk Hsieh]

Destroyer + Piranha is just too good.
Currently, I'd rather they nerf Destroyer rather than nerf Piranha.

[Imp of the Perverse]

Deviean wrote...

Imp of the Perverse wrote...

For grins I started looking around for an alternate weapon to use on my piranha toting geth infiltrator, and decided on the hurricane I unlocked during that last event. I hadn't really used it since it weighs a lot more than my hornet, and ULM is broken. On my GI a level 1 hurricane gives me 5% better cooldowns than a level 10 piranha. With about the same mods (both get the armor piercing mod, but I use a heatsink on the hurricane and a smart choke on the piranha), ammo, and gear, it is slightly weaker against bosses, but still chews through them in a hurry. It absolutely shreds lower level enemies though, and from considerably greater distances. Is anybody screaming to nerf the hurricane?

But the Piranha isn't a "Promotional" weapon, right ?  Or even "Ultra Rare", for that matter.  I don't care about the fate of this weapon, but i think it's kind of crazy for the effort needed to obtain it though.

It's not that hard to obtain, I got one in the first event I bothered participating in, and at level 1 it's competitive with a level 10 piranha. 

[FlamboyantRoy]

I am truly a prophet. I said it wouldn't end at the Krysae and as always. I am correct.

Edit: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^that's also clearly why they buffed the Piranha, because they just wanted to get our hopes up before they come crashing down with the might of Thor upon our beloved shotty.

Seems legit.

Modifié par FlamboyantRoy, 26 juillet 2012 - 03:30 .

[Eugenesys]

FlamboyantRoy wrote...

AdrunkGirlScout wrote...

I'm
sorry, but I'll honestly never understand how anything can me imba or
OP in a non-competitive, co-operative game mode. Against AI
-___-

You'd be surprised what these pizza faced freaks
have to offer in terms of their reasoning. They REALLY remind me of
failed pvpers. 

Maybe they are one....

They should go to Military School and learn for themselves What is the difference between shooting an enemy from 10metres 50 metres and 100metres,

Nerfing the Piranha is like asking all new characters to either go to a battle with rubber bullets, or lug something to do some real damage close range that will weigh a ton. By the time they get to their effective CQC range, they're dead.

Real life is like Platinum. One non head shot brings you down ( or nearly brings you down ). The second shot kills you. Though it doesn't have turrets that can mysteriously appear behind you to bring you down without you knowing it....

Modifié par Eugenesys, 26 juillet 2012 - 03:26 .

[Hulk Hsieh]

death_for_sale wrote...

Hulk Hsieh wrote...

Destroyer + Piranha is just too good.
Currently, I'd rather they nerf Destroyer rather than nerf Piranha.

There are too many classes that would require retooling. They will go for the easy fix.

If they don't neft the Destoyer, I think there will be more weapon nerfing coming.
The class boosts the potential of most weapons by like 80%

Modifié par Hulk Hsieh, 26 juillet 2012 - 03:28 .

[Chozo_Lord]

Hellfire257 wrote...

WeAreLegion- wrote...

No...just no.

NO

[BanditGR]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

I'm not seeing how a scoreboard from a random match says anything about a weapon's relative power.

My point was to display that the weapon can, has and is being used with great success from classes that do not possess abilities to increase its effectiveness. As for relative power, the DPS of the weapon speaks for itself. As it stands the only thing 'bad' about the Piranha is the accuracy, something that can be easily remedied with a SC. DPS is solid, ROF is solid, weight is more than solid, ammo is more than sufficient. Is it OP ? In the hands of the 'usual suspects' (GI, Destroyer, Turian Soldier etc) is pretty close to it. For everyone else is just a powerful shotgun, mostly suitable for CQC classes though. Does it deserve a nerf ? That's for Bioware to decide, personally I think a minor damage decrease and/or weight increase would be fine. It certainly does not deserve to be destroyed like the Krysae. Do I want it to be nerfed ? Hell, no. Do I believe that Bioware will eventually nerf it ? I'm afraid so (and certainly not because of this thread).

[Eugenesys]

i think if anything is to be nerfed, it should be the rate of which IV consumables drop....

[MrFuddyDuddy]

I would rather they nerf nothing and whiners stfu
I'm so tired of any time something decent gets released people have to complain till it becomes pathetic to seen used on gold. I love how people cry for nerf's on new weapons and classes yet the Claymore and Geth Plasma Shotgun, and Talon remain incredibly good, and no one crys for nerfs on those.

[Hulk Hsieh]

Nerfing "Damage vs Armor" might be a way to go if they can do it.
One can still use it to kill minors in CQC, but bosses won't fall so fast.

[Gamemako]

CitizenThom wrote...

That's not what the stats show in the game interface. Where does your 'exact' data come from?

That display is actually totally meaningless. The actual weapon stats are in the game files. Cyonan has started updating (Tangster's?) weapon spreadsheet if you want information on a weapon. If you want other information about the game, GodlessPaladin made an excellent thread compiling a lot of info about the game's mechanics.

CitizenThom wrote...

There are plenty of nerfers. Afterall there are a variety fo ways to acheive balance. One method assumes the pie can get bigger to everyone's benefit... the other insists that the pie cannot get any bigger, and that it must be distributed equally, which can only be done by punishing whoever happens to have the slightly bigger slice of pie. The latter methodology is preferred by nerfers, the former is preferred people who are more interested in having fun with the game than in making sure no one else can have fun with the game.

That is simply not true. You cannot name a single person who is purely in favor of nerfs, but I can name a whole lot of people who are purely against balance changes altogether (there have been threads whining about the very existence of the balance changes).

CitizenThom wrote...

The original poster thought it was more important to cut down one gun, than to raise other guns up to it's level, so he definately comes across as a nerfer.

You cannot reasonably bring everything up to the level of the Piranha. Doing so would make Gold the new Silver, and then you'd have to look for ways to buff enemies. If you buff enemies, you've effectively nerfed all the weapons you just buffed by making them do a smaller portion of the opponent's health in damage. There is only the relative strength of a weapon against the opponent. It is wholly infeasible (not to mention incredibly foolish) to continually buff everything.

Modifié par Gamemako, 26 juillet 2012 - 03:47 .

[Major Durza]

Hulk Hsieh wrote...

Nerfing "Damage vs Armor" might be a way to go if they can do it.
One can still use it to kill minors in CQC, but bosses won't fall so fast.

That might be viable, actually.  I can live with that.

I do not want them to nerf it into the ground like the Krysae.

I fear an overnerf, though.  I am worried that they will nerf everything about the N7 Destroyer combo (N7 Destroyer, N7 Typhoon, and N7 Piranha)

So I will equip my Piranha on my N7 Paladin and prepare to say goodbye to another one of my favorite themed builds...

[curly haired boy]

they won't touch it.

again, they haven't nerfed the GPS or the reegar. piranha is safe.

[nevets79]

you people are so sad. to let a weapon in a game cause you to make a post crying for a nerf. its mind boggling. utterly unbelievable. its people like you OP that are making this game bad and making people not want to play anymore. why cant you enjoy what you have.

/sigh

Modifié par nevets79, 26 juillet 2012 - 04:00 .

[FlamboyantRoy]

curly haired boy wrote...

they won't touch it.

again, they haven't nerfed the GPS or the reegar. piranha is safe.

That would require logic. Something we haven't seen on these forums in months. The fact that the GPS and Reegar are interchangable with the Piranha is completely irrelevant to the salivating low browed reptilian motherf*ckers called the nerfers.