1320 réponses à ce sujet

[humes spork]

Major Durza wrote...

He is saying it is too accurate?
This guy was showing how stunningly accurate it on on FB GLACIER.  Yea, this thing is SO accurate at CLOSE QUARTERS, right?

Oh yes, one shot against a wall to show the weapon's spread is absolutely, totally, sacrosanct proof of the weapon's accuracy.

Because, obviously, the piranha isn't a full-auto shotgun that definitely has no muzzle climb or recoil, and every enemy in the game has the same profile as a wall and moves as much.

[WandererRTF]

At least some of the issue comes the problem that ME3 does not separate between different sources of precision errors in weapons fire - that is hitscanning weapons in ME3 are always perfect in accuracy but not in precision. It is reasonable that Smart Choke affects the pellet spread but on the other hand it is IMHO space magic that Marksman, Devastator Mode, Hunter Mode (others?) affect it. That is they should be affecting the precision errors between separate shots, not between separate pellets within a shot. If game handled the issue in that manner it would resolve at least of the woes related to Piranha as then you would not be able to erase the accuracy issue like you are currently able to do.


EDIT:

humes spork wrote...

Major Durza wrote...

He is saying it is too accurate?
This
guy was showing how stunningly accurate it on on FB GLACIER.  Yea, this
thing is SO accurate at CLOSE QUARTERS, right?

Oh yes, one shot against a wall to show the weapon's spread is absolutely, totally, sacrosanct proof of the weapon's accuracy.

Because,
obviously, the piranha isn't a full-auto shotgun that definitely has no
muzzle climb or recoil, and every enemy in the game has the same
profile as a wall and moves as much.

On the right side there are total of 9 shots fired at the wall (72 pellets). Eight of them while Marksman was on, giving the tightly clustered hits. So claims that it could not be fired accurately are rather pointless so you could finally try to change the argument. On the other hand enemy movement is the same for all weapons as is the target profile so those have no value as such in the comparison.

Modifié par WandererRTF, 26 juillet 2012 - 06:20 .

[Major Durza]

WandererRTF wrote...

At least some of the issue comes the problem that ME3 does not separate between different sources of precision errors in weapons fire - that is hitscanning weapons in ME3 are always perfect in accuracy but not in precision. It is reasonable that Smart Choke affects the pellet spread but on the other hand it is IMHO space magic that Marksman, Devastator Mode, Hunter Mode (others?) affect it. That is they should be affecting the precision errors between separate shots, not between separate pellets within a shot. If game handled the issue in that manner it would resolve at least of the woes related to Piranha as then you would not be able to erase the accuracy issue like you are currently able to do.


EDIT:

humes spork wrote...

Major Durza wrote...

He is saying it is too accurate?
This
guy was showing how stunningly accurate it on on FB GLACIER.  Yea, this
thing is SO accurate at CLOSE QUARTERS, right?

Oh yes, one shot against a wall to show the weapon's spread is absolutely, totally, sacrosanct proof of the weapon's accuracy.

Because,
obviously, the piranha isn't a full-auto shotgun that definitely has no
muzzle climb or recoil, and every enemy in the game has the same
profile as a wall and moves as much.

On the right side there are total of 9 shots fired at the wall (72 pellets). Eight of them while Marksman was on, giving the tightly clustered hits. So claims that it could not be fired accurately are rather pointless so you could finally try to change the argument. On the other hand enemy movement is the same for all weapons as is the target profile so those have no value as such in the comparison.

... So we should expect Turian Soldier + Piranha to be the next Geth Infiltrator + Krysae?

[WandererRTF]

I certainly hope not, that is just an example of the potential accuracy of the weapon

[EVILFLUFFMONSTER]

I would still rather use a claymore infi tbh.

[Major Durza]

WandererRTF wrote...

I certainly hope not, that is just an example of the potential accuracy of the weapon

I was merely pointing out how unlikely that is to catch on.

[WizeMan305]

Aethyl wrote...

Lowered DPS, not needed, the classes making it shines are the weapons expert one, like the Destroyer, GI or Turian Soldier. On other classes it's actually balanced to be a good weapon on Gold / Platinum.

Increased Weight, just no, this weapon is meant to be a compact weapon for CQC characters like Vanguards or the N7 Fury, increasing the weight would kill this specificity.

This is how I feel about the gun, it is amazingly powerful, but there is risk involved when not on a specialty class. It is highly inaccurate without any accuracy buffs, and even with a smart choke it still is pretty inaccurate. When really taken into consideration this gun is situational and can't really be paired effictively with most classes. Engineers, most adepts, and some sentinels would not make this gun shine.

[Cornughon]

K1LL STREAK wrote...

I would still rather use a claymore infi tbh.

NERF THE CLAYMORE!!

[humes spork]

WandererRTF wrote...

On the right side there are total of 9 shots fired at the wall (72 pellets). Eight of them while Marksman was on, giving the tightly clustered hits. So claims that it could not be fired accurately are rather pointless so you could finally try to change the argument. On the other hand enemy movement is the same for all weapons as is the target profile so those have no value as such in the comparison.

First, my commentary was, as I stated, framed around the destroyer. Second, I couldn't help but notice your test was at 17m -- smack dab in the middle of the 15-20m range I specifically mentioned as still fine for using the piranha to full effect. Third, yes enemy profile and movement does factor into the equation pertinent to the piranha, for the fact the player must compensate for enemy movement as well as the piranha's muzzle climb and recoil, or reduce their rate of fire to ensure accuracy.

Fourth, I never said the piranha cannot be fired accurately. What I did say is that in order ensure accuracy, the player has to control their rate of fire. That necessarily constitutes a loss of DPS from the theorycraft, since the theorycraft assumes every pellet from every shot hits, and the weapon is fired as maximum RoF. That does not happen in regular play, whether through player error or otherwise. And as such, theorycraft is not representative of results in practice.

So, why is that directed towards me?

Modifié par humes spork, 26 juillet 2012 - 07:00 .

[MaxShine]

I really cannot understand why anyone in his right mind would like to do this. I am very sure the developers knew from the start that this gun is going to be powerful, they are no idiots and they can do the math... My point is that you can use this gun on a weaker class (oh yeah there are a lot of weaker classes) and their deficiencies get balanced out by this gun. The availability of this gun increases the range of gold/platinum viable classes... It makes the game more fun not less, why would you even consider taking this away... that is such a terrible idea...

[AppealToReason]

It could use some added weight but thats really all.

[Kyerea]

@100Ren What's more astounding is the almost universal hatred of this thread's topic. 31 pages and almost every single post ends in absolute disagreement and disillusionment with the OP's train of thought and reasoning. God bless this forum.

[Major Durza]

AppealToReason wrote...

It could use some added weight but thats really all.

Wrong direction, look how well that worked with the Reegar.

[humes spork]

DarthVarner wrote...

Bunch of stuff about banshees.

Going back to this a minute, this is not a problem endemic to weapon balance. This is a problem endemic to banshee grabs -- be it how often banshees grab and under what conditions, magnet hands, or how difficult it is to interrupt the banshee's sync kill. The solution to any of this is not to introduce a weapon casters can use to interrupt sync kills but is potentially overpowered in the hands of weapon classes. The solution to it is to change the banshee's mechanics, by either making the grab easier to interrupt or getting rid of cheese-grabs (i.e. the teleport insta-grab and magnet hands).

[Anders028]

 smh

[WandererRTF]

humes spork wrote...

So, why is that directed towards me?

It was directed towards the discussion you were taking part to. In which a claim, with which you seemed to agree with, was made that it was accurate solely at close quarters and that weapons recoil would have severe impact on its precision/accuracy.

As for that matter no weapon in the game can be used to their fullest DPS - it is always theorycrafting.

Modifié par WandererRTF, 26 juillet 2012 - 07:13 .

[Halo Quea]

I don't believe that Bioware has debuffed an ultra rare that they previously buffed before. It may get heavier but I don't think that DPS or RoF will change.

[Major Durza]

humes spork wrote...

WandererRTF wrote...

On the right side there are total of 9 shots fired at the wall (72 pellets). Eight of them while Marksman was on, giving the tightly clustered hits. So claims that it could not be fired accurately are rather pointless so you could finally try to change the argument. On the other hand enemy movement is the same for all weapons as is the target profile so those have no value as such in the comparison.

First, my commentary was, as I stated, framed around the destroyer. Second, I couldn't help but notice your test was at 17m -- smack dab in the middle of the 15-20m range I specifically mentioned as still fine for using the piranha to full effect. Third, yes enemy profile and movement does factor into the equation pertinent to the piranha, for the fact the player must compensate for enemy movement as well as the piranha's muzzle climb and recoil, or reduce their rate of fire to ensure accuracy.

Fourth, I never said the piranha cannot be fired accurately. What I did say is that in order ensure accuracy, the player has to control their rate of fire. That necessarily constitutes a loss of DPS from the theorycraft, since the theorycraft assumes every pellet from every shot hits, and the weapon is fired as maximum RoF. That does not happen in regular play, whether through player error or otherwise. And as such, theorycraft is not representative of results in practice.

So, why is that directed towards me?

Exactly.  This gun is not OP in the hands of most classes, it is good.  As a matter of fact, look at the profile of the spread, no all of those are going to hit a single Pyro, hunter or any of that.  He makes an excellent point.  The theory says this gun is massively overpowered, in practice it is not nearly as much.  It does not completely outdo the Claymore, the fact that it needs to fire constantly (And the Disciple staggers enemies much more effectively!) is another reason why this gun is not as powerful as it looks.

100RenegadePoints wrote...

I really cannot understand why anyone in his right mind would like to do this. I am very sure the developers knew from the start that this gun is going to be powerful, they are no idiots and they can do the math... My point is that you can use this gun on a weaker class (oh yeah there are a lot of weaker classes) and their deficiencies get balanced out by this gun. The availability of this gun increases the range of gold/platinum viable classes... It makes the game more fun not less, why would you even consider taking this away... that is such a terrible idea...

 

This, very much this.

Kyerea wrote...

@100Ren What's more astounding is the almost universal hatred of this thread's topic. 31 pages and almost every single post ends in absolute disagreement and disillusionment with the OP's train of thought and reasoning. God bless this forum.

That should tell you something, there is something wrong with the OP's train of thought and reasoning.  This is NOT the Krysae, Hume's Spork's post should give you an idea of how the OP's points work in practice, which is to say that the gun is not nearly as effective as the OP makes it out to be.

[Major Durza]

death_for_sale wrote...

I'll be uploading a platinum reaper wave and 3 waves of a reaper gold as time allows. Bear in mind that banshees are a bit harder to kill than atlas's (atlii? lol). Links will be in the main post. Also, bear in mind that while I can solo gold, i've not tried to solo plat and my recording program lags everything I do, so it's a bit sloppy.

Keep in mind that using a weapons platform is not going to help your point.  Don't use weapons platforms, or level III/IV consumables.

[heybigmoney]

Major Durza wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

I'll be uploading a platinum reaper wave and 3 waves of a reaper gold as time allows. Bear in mind that banshees are a bit harder to kill than atlas's (atlii? lol). Links will be in the main post. Also, bear in mind that while I can solo gold, i've not tried to solo plat and my recording program lags everything I do, so it's a bit sloppy.

Keep in mind that using a weapons platform is not going to help your point.  Don't use weapons platforms, or level III/IV consumables.

Lol wut?  You mean, don't play the game like you normally would?  Might as well ask him to play with one hand while you're at it.

[Ashen One]

heybigmoney wrote...

Major Durza wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

I'll be uploading a platinum reaper wave and 3 waves of a reaper gold as time allows. Bear in mind that banshees are a bit harder to kill than atlas's (atlii? lol). Links will be in the main post. Also, bear in mind that while I can solo gold, i've not tried to solo plat and my recording program lags everything I do, so it's a bit sloppy.

Keep in mind that using a weapons platform is not going to help your point.  Don't use weapons platforms, or level III/IV consumables.

Lol wut?  You mean, don't play the game like you normally would?  Might as well ask him to play with one hand while you're at it.

Using a weapon on a class like the GI or Destroyer isn't going to prove a weapon is OP, only that the weapon is OP in the hands of said classes.

I dominated a Reaper Gold game a few hours ago using a GI with a PPR and Incendiary Ammo IV, but the PPR is hardly OP.

Modifié par Ashen Earth, 26 juillet 2012 - 07:32 .

[Shadow of Terror]

Reduce the damage a little bit and give a reasonable increase to the spread.

Do not touch the weight. Let the gun be good on classes that can tighten the spread, and let the gun be a great boss killer for ALL classes (even the light wielding classes), but not so useful against shooting everything.

Modifié par Shadow of Terror, 26 juillet 2012 - 07:32 .

[Untonic]

ZombieGambit wrote...

No, stop asking for ****ing nerfs to everything good, instead ask for buffs for everything that sucks. Goddammit, people like you flooding the forums with nerf requests are killing the game.

Going to tattoo this to my arm.