1320 réponses à ce sujet

[humes spork]

WandererRTF wrote...

It was directed towards the discussion you were taking part to. In which a claim, with which you seemed to agree with, was made that it was accurate solely at close quarters and that weapons recoil would have severe impact on its precision/accuracy.

Not exactly. On most classes it's only accurate at close quarters, but on GI's, TSo's and destroyers you can shoot it accurately up to medium or so range, and on those classes the gun has different drawbacks that counterveil its improved accuracy. Though, I would argue recoil and muzzle climb do severely impact the weapon's effectiveness -- having to compensate for recoil and climb against moving targets allows another venue for human error to creep in which limits the weapon's damage, which counter-intuitively has a greater impact with tighter spread since a misplaced shot has less chance of putting pellets into your intended target.

That last bit is actually why I don't like using marksman with the piranha, actually, especially for the fact I prefer to fire the shotgun into groups of enemies opposed to one at a time (if I can help it). Tighter spread is nice, but marksman's RoF bonuses are largely a wash for the fact you have to slow your own rate of fire against most enemies to ensure your shots are well-placed.

Exactly.  This gun is not OP in the hands of most classes, it is good.  As a matter of fact, look at the profile of the spread, no all of those are going to hit a single Pyro, hunter or any of that.  He makes an excellent point.  The theory says this gun is massively overpowered, in practice it is not nearly as much.  It does not completely outdo the Claymore, the fact that it needs to fire constantly (And the Disciple staggers enemies much more effectively!) is another reason why this gun is not as powerful as it looks. 

That's with what I initially took issue. He's arguing the weapon needs a nerf largely based upon the theory, without considering it in practice.

[Major Durza]

Ashen Earth wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

Major Durza wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

I'll be uploading a platinum reaper wave and 3 waves of a reaper gold as time allows. Bear in mind that banshees are a bit harder to kill than atlas's (atlii? lol). Links will be in the main post. Also, bear in mind that while I can solo gold, i've not tried to solo plat and my recording program lags everything I do, so it's a bit sloppy.

Keep in mind that using a weapons platform is not going to help your point.  Don't use weapons platforms, or level III/IV consumables.

Lol wut?  You mean, don't play the game like you normally would?  Might as well ask him to play with one hand while you're at it.

Using a weapon on a class like the GI or Destroyer isn't going to prove a weapon is OP, only that the weapon is OP in the hands of said classes.

I dominated a Reaper Gold game a few hours ago using a GI with a PPR and Incendiary Ammo IV, but the PPR is hardly OP.

Ashen speaks truth!  This is exactly what I am talking about.
And no, average Gold players do not constantly use level III and IV consumables.
And yea, using a weapon with one of the 2 or 3 classes in this game that give massive boosts to weapons potential does not make a weapon OP by itself.

Shadow of Terror wrote...

Reduce the damage a little bit and give a reasonable increase to the spread.

Do not touch the weight. Let the gun be good on classes that can tighten the spread, and let the gun be a great boss killer for ALL classes (even the light wielding classes), but not so useful against shooting everything.

I disagree with you on one point, the spread.  The spread is fine, if you want to go further than decrease the damage (Or simply undo last week's buff) then you can safely decrease the ROF by a slight amount, but increasing the spread any more would make it unusable without a choke.

[Catastrophy]

Constructing a case on a specific character and skillset doesn't prove your point, OP. I hardly hit anything with the gun farther than close range and when I do, only few pellets hit.
It is a powerful gun but on most classes but you have to close in to use it to full potential, I think it just works great how it is.

[Ashen One]

dr_random wrote...

Constructing a case on a specific character and skillset doesn't prove your point, OP.

You're making the mistake of using logic, and common sense in a nerf whine thread.

Stop it.

[Major Durza]

death_for_sale wrote...

Major Durza wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

I'll be uploading a platinum reaper wave and 3 waves of a reaper gold as time allows. Bear in mind that banshees are a bit harder to kill than atlas's (atlii? lol). Links will be in the main post. Also, bear in mind that while I can solo gold, i've not tried to solo plat and my recording program lags everything I do, so it's a bit sloppy.

Keep in mind that using a weapons platform is not going to help your point.  Don't use weapons platforms, or level III/IV consumables.

I used a Destroyer, because quite simply my point is that it is very OP on weapon using classes and slightly OP on biotic/tech. I also used full consumables because that is what people are going to use in the games they play. Why would anyone not use the equipment they have to make the weapon better?

I used consumables available to anyone who plays this game.

Perhaps if I have time, I will use a caster type class in a 3rd video. I really have to wonder if it is worth it though, because there are 3 groups of people in this topic. One group that believes it is OP and should be moderately nerfed before it gets the death sentence from BW gameplay stats showing everyone using it, A second group that reluctantly admits that it might be a bit OP., and a third group that refuses to see any logic or reason that might mean they lose an overpowered weapon.

I feel fairly confident that if I show it is OP on a caster class, all of said third group will cover their eyes and say they see no such thing.

Not very many people use level III and IV consumables on a Gold match.  Why wouldn't they use it?  Because they do not have it, or at least in comfortable numbers.

And using a destroyer to show that the Piranha is OP is about as effective as saying look how big of a bonfire I can make when I cover the woodpile in gasoline, look how flammable this wateroak is!  Wateroak is a lot more flammable than Pine!

Make the third video.  I guess you are going to do it on something like Glacier to show its "accuracy".

And I guess you categorize me as the one who refuses to see reason.

[CC-Tron]

humes spork wrote...

If anything, the piranha needs a weight increase to keep it out of the hands of casters. Outside that, it's fairly well balanced for what it is. It's no reegar, you still have to know how to use the weapon to get the most effect out of it especially at ranges longer than 10m.

Yeah and that would also keep the gun out of the hands of vanguards. The class the gun was most likely intended for.
It's heavier then the scimitar. A Kroguard can't carry it and a phalanx together and maintain 200 % CD without pistol LW materials.  It's heavy enough.

[Kyerea]

Ashen Earth wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

Major Durza wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

I'll be uploading a platinum reaper wave and 3 waves of a reaper gold as time allows. Bear in mind that banshees are a bit harder to kill than atlas's (atlii? lol). Links will be in the main post. Also, bear in mind that while I can solo gold, i've not tried to solo plat and my recording program lags everything I do, so it's a bit sloppy.

Keep in mind that using a weapons platform is not going to help your point.  Don't use weapons platforms, or level III/IV consumables.

Lol wut?  You mean, don't play the game like you normally would?  Might as well ask him to play with one hand while you're at it.

Using a weapon on a class like the GI or Destroyer isn't going to prove a weapon is OP, only that the weapon is OP in the hands of said classes.

I dominated a Reaper Gold game a few hours ago using a GI with a PPR and Incendiary Ammo IV, but the PPR is hardly OP.

I was wondering when you'd find this thread Ash. 

[kevchy]

Unlike the Krysae, this gun cannot be slapped on to any class and be awesome with it. Its not a noob friendly weapon at all. It requires *gasp* aim!

So, no.

[Major Durza]

death_for_sale wrote...

dr_random wrote...

Constructing a case on a specific character and skillset doesn't prove your point, OP. I hardly hit anything with the gun farther than close range and when I do, only few pellets hit.
It is a powerful gun but on most classes but you have to close in to use it to full potential, I think it just works great how it is.

Be honest, do you carry it on most of your characters or not?

I use it on my Paladin, Slayer, and Destroyer.   So, no.  I do not.

Modifié par Major Durza, 26 juillet 2012 - 07:52 .

[Major Durza]

Kyerea wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

Major Durza wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

I'll be uploading a platinum reaper wave and 3 waves of a reaper gold as time allows. Bear in mind that banshees are a bit harder to kill than atlas's (atlii? lol). Links will be in the main post. Also, bear in mind that while I can solo gold, i've not tried to solo plat and my recording program lags everything I do, so it's a bit sloppy.

Keep in mind that using a weapons platform is not going to help your point.  Don't use weapons platforms, or level III/IV consumables.

Lol wut?  You mean, don't play the game like you normally would?  Might as well ask him to play with one hand while you're at it.

Using a weapon on a class like the GI or Destroyer isn't going to prove a weapon is OP, only that the weapon is OP in the hands of said classes.

I dominated a Reaper Gold game a few hours ago using a GI with a PPR and Incendiary Ammo IV, but the PPR is hardly OP.

I was wondering when you'd find this thread Ash. 

I do not think Ashen's point can be emphasized enough.  You have yet to counter that jab, Death.

[Ashen One]

Kyerea wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

Major Durza wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

I'll be uploading a platinum reaper wave and 3 waves of a reaper gold as time allows. Bear in mind that banshees are a bit harder to kill than atlas's (atlii? lol). Links will be in the main post. Also, bear in mind that while I can solo gold, i've not tried to solo plat and my recording program lags everything I do, so it's a bit sloppy.

Keep in mind that using a weapons platform is not going to help your point.  Don't use weapons platforms, or level III/IV consumables.

Lol wut?  You mean, don't play the game like you normally would?  Might as well ask him to play with one hand while you're at it.

Using a weapon on a class like the GI or Destroyer isn't going to prove a weapon is OP, only that the weapon is OP in the hands of said classes.

I dominated a Reaper Gold game a few hours ago using a GI with a PPR and Incendiary Ammo IV, but the PPR is hardly OP.

I was wondering when you'd find this thread Ash. 

I love me some cringe inducing idiocy.

Modifié par Ashen Earth, 26 juillet 2012 - 07:52 .

[RonnyB]

death_for_sale wrote...


Perhaps if I have time, I will use a caster type class in a 3rd video. I really have to wonder if it is worth it though, because there are 3 groups of people in this topic. One group that believes it is OP and should be moderately nerfed before it gets the death sentence from BW gameplay stats showing everyone using it, A second group that reluctantly admits that it might be a bit OP., and a third group that refuses to see any logic or reason that might mean they lose an overpowered weapon.

I feel fairly confident that if I show it is OP on a caster class, all of said third group will cover their eyes and say they see no such thing.

You seem to be just as stubborn in seeing it the way of the third group as you're claiming the third group of seeing it your way.

Also, I'm not sure how your criteria to meet the definition of overpowered should somehow be Bioware's or the that of the third group.

[Javo2357]

I was pretty surprised the gun was buffed. A nerf is inevitable for this weapon, but I think they should just make it as heavy as the Claymore. It's either that or decrease the damage quite a bit and I'd rather have them increase the weight since it's a devastating CQC shotgun.

[heybigmoney]

Ashen Earth wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

Major Durza wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

I'll be uploading a platinum reaper wave and 3 waves of a reaper gold as time allows. Bear in mind that banshees are a bit harder to kill than atlas's (atlii? lol). Links will be in the main post. Also, bear in mind that while I can solo gold, i've not tried to solo plat and my recording program lags everything I do, so it's a bit sloppy.

Keep in mind that using a weapons platform is not going to help your point.  Don't use weapons platforms, or level III/IV consumables.

Lol wut?  You mean, don't play the game like you normally would?  Might as well ask him to play with one hand while you're at it.

Using a weapon on a class like the GI or Destroyer isn't going to prove a weapon is OP, only that the weapon is OP in the hands of said classes.

I dominated a Reaper Gold game a few hours ago using a GI with a PPR and Incendiary Ammo IV, but the PPR is hardly OP.

This is a valid point, but the community is never going to be receptive to nerfing any of these classes.  The stipulation of not using consumables seems unreasonable to me considering we are testing against platinum bosses.

[Kyerea]

RonnyB wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...


Perhaps if I have time, I will use a caster type class in a 3rd video. I really have to wonder if it is worth it though, because there are 3 groups of people in this topic. One group that believes it is OP and should be moderately nerfed before it gets the death sentence from BW gameplay stats showing everyone using it, A second group that reluctantly admits that it might be a bit OP., and a third group that refuses to see any logic or reason that might mean they lose an overpowered weapon.

I feel fairly confident that if I show it is OP on a caster class, all of said third group will cover their eyes and say they see no such thing.

You seem to be just as stubborn in seeing it the way of the third group as you're claiming the third group of seeing it your way.

Also, I'm not sure how your criteria to meet the definition of overpowered should somehow be Bioware's or the that of the third group.

Three groups? Could've fooled me, seems to be a lot of "You have no idea what you are talking about OP, stop complaining/whining for more nerfs." I like how his third "grouping" are all the people that he disagrees with. God OP, you suck at debating.

I used to wonder if anything could be worse than weapon-balancing for BF3. Turns out, I've finally found a game with worse weapon-balancing... and it's a co-op game...

Modifié par Kyerea, 26 juillet 2012 - 08:00 .

[Catastrophy]

death_for_sale wrote...

dr_random wrote...

Constructing a case on a specific character and skillset doesn't prove your point, OP. I hardly hit anything with the gun farther than close range and when I do, only few pellets hit.
It is a powerful gun but on most classes but you have to close in to use it to full potential, I think it just works great how it is.

Be honest, do you carry it on most of your characters or not?

I use it on my N7Shadow:wub:. It's the perfect gun for my playstyle.
When I first got it and tried out I was underwhelmed. I tried a choke and still wasn't convinced.

I also use it as a fallback weapon for the Destroyer, main gun is an AR (Typhoon or Falcon for the fun of it).
I tried it on the Paladin and it is OK here.
I'd still prefer the Claymore for my Vorcha, caster class wise I would likely pick the Piranha when considering a shotgun, it offers more than the Disciple or Eviscerator.
Overall, I vary my weapons quite a lot with the sole exception of the Shadow:wub:, that's my current favourite.

[CC-Tron]

Javo2357 wrote...

I was pretty surprised the gun was buffed. A nerf is inevitable for this weapon, but I think they should just make it as heavy as the Claymore. It's either that or decrease the damage quite a bit and I'd rather have them increase the weight since it's a devastating CQC shotgun.

No that's a bad idea. Think about what your saying. Increasing the weight would only take the gun out of the niche it was intended to fill. A more powerful scimitar and also just as accessible to lighter classes. It's already heavier than the scimitar and much shorter range.

[Major Durza]

Kyerea wrote...

RonnyB wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...


Perhaps if I have time, I will use a caster type class in a 3rd video. I really have to wonder if it is worth it though, because there are 3 groups of people in this topic. One group that believes it is OP and should be moderately nerfed before it gets the death sentence from BW gameplay stats showing everyone using it, A second group that reluctantly admits that it might be a bit OP., and a third group that refuses to see any logic or reason that might mean they lose an overpowered weapon.

I feel fairly confident that if I show it is OP on a caster class, all of said third group will cover their eyes and say they see no such thing.

You seem to be just as stubborn in seeing it the way of the third group as you're claiming the third group of seeing it your way.

Also, I'm not sure how your criteria to meet the definition of overpowered should somehow be Bioware's or the that of the third group.

Three groups? Could've fooled me, seems to be a lot of "You have no idea what you are talking about OP, stop complaining/whining for more nerfs." I like how his third "grouping" are all the people that he disagrees with. God OP, you suck at debating.

I used to wonder if anything could be worse than weapon-balancing for BF3. Turns out, I've finally found a game with worse weapon-balancing... and it's a co-op game...

Remember the IR scope?  lolol

[Asebstos]

Javo2357 wrote...

I was pretty surprised the gun was buffed. A nerf is inevitable for this weapon, but I think they should just make it as heavy as the Claymore. It's either that or decrease the damage quite a bit and I'd rather have them increase the weight since it's a devastating CQC shotgun.

They could do a lot of things like... decrease the clip size, increase the recoil, decrease the ROF, mess around with damage multipliers, etc. Much more than just increasing weight or decreasing damage.

[holdenagincourt]

Wow, I can't believe how long this is.

(Don't leave me hanging!)

[Ashen One]

heybigmoney wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

Major Durza wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

I'll be uploading a platinum reaper wave and 3 waves of a reaper gold as time allows. Bear in mind that banshees are a bit harder to kill than atlas's (atlii? lol). Links will be in the main post. Also, bear in mind that while I can solo gold, i've not tried to solo plat and my recording program lags everything I do, so it's a bit sloppy.

Keep in mind that using a weapons platform is not going to help your point.  Don't use weapons platforms, or level III/IV consumables.

Lol wut?  You mean, don't play the game like you normally would?  Might as well ask him to play with one hand while you're at it.

Using a weapon on a class like the GI or Destroyer isn't going to prove a weapon is OP, only that the weapon is OP in the hands of said classes.

I dominated a Reaper Gold game a few hours ago using a GI with a PPR and Incendiary Ammo IV, but the PPR is hardly OP.

This is a valid point, but the community is never going to be receptive to nerfing any of these classes.  The stipulation of not using consumables seems unreasonable to me considering we are testing against platinum bosses.

They said the same thing about the Geth Infiltrator, and the Krysae and look where we are now.

GI nerfed twice, Kryse nerfed to the point where it is useless on all classes besides the Infiltrator, and only optimal on the GI as opposed to any other Infiltrator, and even then it's trash. (RoF bonus and damage bonuses in HM to slightly compensate for the nerf)

They effectively killed the weapon for all classes just to "balance" it on a few.


And if he's going to include consumables in his "test" then by his own logic the PPR setup I used earlier today was OP as hell. Melting bosses in seconds from across the map, with pinpoint accuracy and stacking massive DoT (Incendiary Ammo IV) along with PM debuff? nerfallthethings.jpg

Modifié par Ashen Earth, 26 juillet 2012 - 08:09 .