1320 réponses à ce sujet

[Major Durza]

holdenagincourt wrote...

Wow, I can't believe how long this is.

(Don't leave me hanging!)

Touchy subject, what can I say?

[TAlTAl]

WeAreLegion- wrote...

lol'd pretty hard there.

[Major Durza]

Ashen Earth wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

Major Durza wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

I'll be uploading a platinum reaper wave and 3 waves of a reaper gold as time allows. Bear in mind that banshees are a bit harder to kill than atlas's (atlii? lol). Links will be in the main post. Also, bear in mind that while I can solo gold, i've not tried to solo plat and my recording program lags everything I do, so it's a bit sloppy.

Keep in mind that using a weapons platform is not going to help your point.  Don't use weapons platforms, or level III/IV consumables.

Lol wut?  You mean, don't play the game like you normally would?  Might as well ask him to play with one hand while you're at it.

Using a weapon on a class like the GI or Destroyer isn't going to prove a weapon is OP, only that the weapon is OP in the hands of said classes.

I dominated a Reaper Gold game a few hours ago using a GI with a PPR and Incendiary Ammo IV, but the PPR is hardly OP.

This is a valid point, but the community is never going to be receptive to nerfing any of these classes.  The stipulation of not using consumables seems unreasonable to me considering we are testing against platinum bosses.

They said the same thing about the Geth Infiltrator, and the Krysae and look where we are now.

GI nerfed twice, Kryse nerfed to the point where it is useless on all classes besides the Infiltrator, and only optimal on the GI, and even then it's trash. (RoF bonus and damage bonuses in HM to slightly compensate for the nerf)

They effectively killed the weapon for all classes just to "balance" it on a few.


And if he's going to include consumables in his "test" then by his own logic the PPR setup I used earlier today was OP as hell. Melting bosses in seconds from across the map, with pinpoint accuracy and stacking massive DoT (Incendiary Ammo IV) along with PM debuff? nerfallthethings.jpg

lolol I LOVE this!  Do note that he did not respond to you, or this line of thought yet!
The question is, will he brand you as a member of the "third group that refuses to see any logic or reason that might mean they lose an overpowered weapon."

Edit:  It appears the challenge has been accepted.

Modifié par Major Durza, 26 juillet 2012 - 08:13 .

[Untonic]

Okay, so people want to start nerfing the Piranha?

Bet you a N7 Typhoon XXIV, that gun has saved your ass plenty of times.

Modifié par Untonic, 26 juillet 2012 - 08:13 .

[Dynamik78]

All this BSN madness reminds me of the hunt for the witches...I think that balance changes should be made by Devs only based on stats gathered: how often players weild it? which and how many mobs did it kill? ok now let's test it "PERIOD"
32 pages of thread about nerfing a weapon ain't right nono

[Javo2357]

CC-Tron wrote...

Javo2357 wrote...

I was pretty surprised the gun was buffed. A nerf is inevitable for this weapon, but I think they should just make it as heavy as the Claymore. It's either that or decrease the damage quite a bit and I'd rather have them increase the weight since it's a devastating CQC shotgun.

No that's a bad idea. Think about what your saying. Increasing the weight would only take the gun out of the niche it was intended to fill. A more powerful scimitar and also just as accessible to lighter classes. It's already heavier than the scimitar and much shorter range.

It's still pretty lightweight considering the damage it puts out. IMO the Scimitar should fire faster or have a damage buff but that's another issue. The DPS for this weapon just ridiculous (MUCH more powerful than a Scimitar).

The Piranha, as the OP pointed out, has a MUCH higher DPS than the Claymore. I think that's the main problem but IF it came down to nerfing the damage or the weight, I'd go with weight because honestly, this weapon is being used the most on classes specced for increased accuracy, RoF, and DPS, which aren't affected by weight as much. Perhaps I went to far suggesting it should be as heavy as the Claymore but I think the weapon should weigh a bit more taking all this into account.

[Ashen One]

death_for_sale wrote...

Major Durza wrote...

Kyerea wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

Major Durza wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

I'll be uploading a platinum reaper wave and 3 waves of a reaper gold as time allows. Bear in mind that banshees are a bit harder to kill than atlas's (atlii? lol). Links will be in the main post. Also, bear in mind that while I can solo gold, i've not tried to solo plat and my recording program lags everything I do, so it's a bit sloppy.

Keep in mind that using a weapons platform is not going to help your point.  Don't use weapons platforms, or level III/IV consumables.

Lol wut?  You mean, don't play the game like you normally would?  Might as well ask him to play with one hand while you're at it.

Using a weapon on a class like the GI or Destroyer isn't going to prove a weapon is OP, only that the weapon is OP in the hands of said classes.

I dominated a Reaper Gold game a few hours ago using a GI with a PPR and Incendiary Ammo IV, but the PPR is hardly OP.

I was wondering when you'd find this thread Ash. 

I do not think Ashen's point can be emphasized enough.  You have yet to counter that jab, Death.

It would appear that I will have to level up one of my casters and make a 3rd video to counter it. Once I do, will that change your mind, honestly?

I'm not doing it tonight though, uploading these takes a long time and I need sleep.

I'd be very interested to see how "OP" the weapon is on a squishy Adept with no passive weapon damage bonuses taken over power damage bonuses, and no consumables used.

[GroverA125]

kevchy wrote...

Unlike the Krysae, this gun cannot be slapped on to any class and be awesome with it. Its not a noob friendly weapon at all. It requires *gasp* aim!

So, no.

Exactly. In the hands of a destroyer, the Vindicator becomes shockingly powerful, so does the Phaeston, Revenant, Particle Rifle, in fact pretty much any weapon out there. Using a weaponsmaster class to claim that <insert weapon here> is underpowered/overpowered is pointless, as is your "ideal circumstances".

To counter this "ideal circumstances" rubbish, I bring your attention to Ghost Recon: Future Soldier. In which, there is a firing range with multiple different ranges and targets. Using any weapon, it is possible in this scenario to eliminate a target at maximum range (100m or so). When you take the same weapon into a live-fire scenario however, you will barely scrape by getting half of that range with anything short of a marksman rifle or sniper rifle. In the field, you are not going to have your target sitting still, you aren't going to have all of your powers set up, you aren't going to consistently run around with max level mods on. Measuring a weapon with such is inaccurate. You test them under default parameters, or one in which the scenario is more than likely to occur, but you never test under perfect conditions.

Just because one person can use it well, doesn't mean that everyone else can use it to the same extent. In Modern Warfare 2, I could use the F2000 as a marksman rifle to hit targets across the map, and elsewhere use it to compete with other assault rifles at the same range. Not many other people can, and the gun is certainly not overpowered. Your argument is that a weapon for lighter-bodied races (read the damn description) is overpowered on a class that is not a lighter-bodied race. No matter how you look at this, it's not the shotgun that's overpowered, it's the class bonuses. They multiply damage to unseen levels and/or provide massive accuracy bonuses, and you use them as your argument point. You want to whine about it? Put it on one of the classes that the damn thing was built for, use it consistently on those for a dozen matches, then have a whine.

[Kyerea]

Ashen Earth wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

Major Durza wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

I'll be uploading a platinum reaper wave and 3 waves of a reaper gold as time allows. Bear in mind that banshees are a bit harder to kill than atlas's (atlii? lol). Links will be in the main post. Also, bear in mind that while I can solo gold, i've not tried to solo plat and my recording program lags everything I do, so it's a bit sloppy.

Keep in mind that using a weapons platform is not going to help your point.  Don't use weapons platforms, or level III/IV consumables.

Lol wut?  You mean, don't play the game like you normally would?  Might as well ask him to play with one hand while you're at it.

Using a weapon on a class like the GI or Destroyer isn't going to prove a weapon is OP, only that the weapon is OP in the hands of said classes.

I dominated a Reaper Gold game a few hours ago using a GI with a PPR and Incendiary Ammo IV, but the PPR is hardly OP.

This is a valid point, but the community is never going to be receptive to nerfing any of these classes.  The stipulation of not using consumables seems unreasonable to me considering we are testing against platinum bosses.

They said the same thing about the Geth Infiltrator, and the Krysae and look where we are now.

GI nerfed twice, Kryse nerfed to the point where it is useless on all classes besides the Infiltrator, and only optimal on the GI as opposed to any other Infiltrator, and even then it's trash. (RoF bonus and damage bonuses in HM to slightly compensate for the nerf)

They effectively killed the weapon for all classes just to "balance" it on a few.


And if he's going to include consumables in his "test" then by his own logic the PPR setup I used earlier today was OP as hell. Melting bosses in seconds from across the map, with pinpoint accuracy and stacking massive DoT (Incendiary Ammo IV) along with PM debuff? nerfallthethings.jpg

Why are consumables even included in his "tests"? Not everyone is using or regularly has the same conumables per character/class or even in the same manner for that matter. If that's the effing case then by death's definition of overpowered, the N7 Furies are OP because Power Amp IV + Rank 6 DC + Rank 6 Throw or Rank 6 damage AF detonation + Brute on Gold/Plat = a near instant-kill (one armor bar left that gets eaten by DC). GOTTA NERF EVERYTHING NOW GUYS, CAN'T HAVE YOU PERFORMING WELL IN A CO-OP GAME.

[Major Durza]

death_for_sale wrote...

Major Durza wrote...

Kyerea wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

Major Durza wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

I'll be uploading a platinum reaper wave and 3 waves of a reaper gold as time allows. Bear in mind that banshees are a bit harder to kill than atlas's (atlii? lol). Links will be in the main post. Also, bear in mind that while I can solo gold, i've not tried to solo plat and my recording program lags everything I do, so it's a bit sloppy.

Keep in mind that using a weapons platform is not going to help your point.  Don't use weapons platforms, or level III/IV consumables.

Lol wut?  You mean, don't play the game like you normally would?  Might as well ask him to play with one hand while you're at it.

Using a weapon on a class like the GI or Destroyer isn't going to prove a weapon is OP, only that the weapon is OP in the hands of said classes.

I dominated a Reaper Gold game a few hours ago using a GI with a PPR and Incendiary Ammo IV, but the PPR is hardly OP.

I was wondering when you'd find this thread Ash. 

I do not think Ashen's point can be emphasized enough.  You have yet to counter that jab, Death.

It would appear that I will have to level up one of my casters and make a 3rd video to counter it. Once I do, will that change your mind, honestly?

I'm not doing it tonight though, uploading these takes a long time and I need sleep.

As long as you are showcasing the Piranha, and not your massive skill with said class/powers you should be alright.

[Heldarion]

I dominated a Reaper Gold game a few hours ago using a GI with a PPR and Incendiary Ammo IV, but the PPR is hardly OP.

What's PPR?

[Javo2357]

Asebstos wrote...

Javo2357 wrote...

I was pretty surprised the gun was buffed. A nerf is inevitable for this weapon, but I think they should just make it as heavy as the Claymore. It's either that or decrease the damage quite a bit and I'd rather have them increase the weight since it's a devastating CQC shotgun.

They could do a lot of things like... decrease the clip size, increase the recoil, decrease the ROF, mess around with damage multipliers, etc. Much more than just increasing weight or decreasing damage.

I know, I just would prefer them not to mess with the damage since this gun should be more devastating than the Claymore at close range but it definitely shouldn't weigh as little as it does atm.

[Ashen One]

Javo2357 wrote...

CC-Tron wrote...

Javo2357 wrote...

I was pretty surprised the gun was buffed. A nerf is inevitable for this weapon, but I think they should just make it as heavy as the Claymore. It's either that or decrease the damage quite a bit and I'd rather have them increase the weight since it's a devastating CQC shotgun.

No that's a bad idea. Think about what your saying. Increasing the weight would only take the gun out of the niche it was intended to fill. A more powerful scimitar and also just as accessible to lighter classes. It's already heavier than the scimitar and much shorter range.

It's still pretty lightweight considering the damage it puts out. IMO the Scimitar should fire faster or have a damage buff but that's another issue. The DPS for this weapon just ridiculous (MUCH more powerful than a Scimitar).

The Piranha, as the OP pointed out, has a MUCH higher DPS than the Claymore. I think that's the main problem but IF it came down to nerfing the damage or the weight, I'd go with weight because honestly, this weapon is being used the most on classes specced for increased accuracy, RoF, and DPS, which aren't affected by weight as much. Perhaps I went to far suggesting it should be as heavy as the Claymore but I think the weapon should weigh a bit more taking all this into account.

And what would you say about the Wraith, which does as much damage per shot as a Widow X, has a two round clip, is as light as the Piranha, and is more accurate than the Claymore?

Modifié par Ashen Earth, 26 juillet 2012 - 08:18 .

[Javo2357]

Heldarion wrote...

I dominated a Reaper Gold game a few hours ago using a GI with a PPR and Incendiary Ammo IV, but the PPR is hardly OP.

What's PPR?

Prothean Particle Rifle

[Heldarion]

Javo2357 wrote...

Heldarion wrote...

I dominated a Reaper Gold game a few hours ago using a GI with a PPR and Incendiary Ammo IV, but the PPR is hardly OP.

What's PPR?

Prothean Particle Rifle

Thanks. I was confused going through my manifest to figure out what that is, but since it only says "Partice Rifle" there, I dismissed that as an option.

[Major Durza]

Javo2357 wrote...

CC-Tron wrote...

Javo2357 wrote...

I was pretty surprised the gun was buffed. A nerf is inevitable for this weapon, but I think they should just make it as heavy as the Claymore. It's either that or decrease the damage quite a bit and I'd rather have them increase the weight since it's a devastating CQC shotgun.

No that's a bad idea. Think about what your saying. Increasing the weight would only take the gun out of the niche it was intended to fill. A more powerful scimitar and also just as accessible to lighter classes. It's already heavier than the scimitar and much shorter range.

It's still pretty lightweight considering the damage it puts out. IMO the Scimitar should fire faster or have a damage buff but that's another issue. The DPS for this weapon just ridiculous (MUCH more powerful than a Scimitar).

The Piranha, as the OP pointed out, has a MUCH higher DPS than the Claymore. I think that's the main problem but IF it came down to nerfing the damage or the weight, I'd go with weight because honestly, this weapon is being used the most on classes specced for increased accuracy, RoF, and DPS, which aren't affected by weight as much. Perhaps I went to far suggesting it should be as heavy as the Claymore but I think the weapon should weigh a bit more taking all this into account.

SO Much wrong with this line of thought that was addressed only a few pages ago!
Spread, doesn't match silouette of enemies, most of pellets not hitting!  Rate of Fire, exposes you, requires you get shot at while dealing damage, have to take cover, interrupt DPS.  Claymore, shoot once, massive damage, get out of the way, profit.

It is OP in weaponmaster classes, so you propose changes that affect ALL of the classes that it is not OP on.  Doesn't make sense!

[heybigmoney]

Ashen Earth wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

Major Durza wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

I'll be uploading a platinum reaper wave and 3 waves of a reaper gold as time allows. Bear in mind that banshees are a bit harder to kill than atlas's (atlii? lol). Links will be in the main post. Also, bear in mind that while I can solo gold, i've not tried to solo plat and my recording program lags everything I do, so it's a bit sloppy.

Keep in mind that using a weapons platform is not going to help your point.  Don't use weapons platforms, or level III/IV consumables.

Lol wut?  You mean, don't play the game like you normally would?  Might as well ask him to play with one hand while you're at it.

Using a weapon on a class like the GI or Destroyer isn't going to prove a weapon is OP, only that the weapon is OP in the hands of said classes.

I dominated a Reaper Gold game a few hours ago using a GI with a PPR and Incendiary Ammo IV, but the PPR is hardly OP.

This is a valid point, but the community is never going to be receptive to nerfing any of these classes.  The stipulation of not using consumables seems unreasonable to me considering we are testing against platinum bosses.

They said the same thing about the Geth Infiltrator, and the Krysae and look where we are now.

GI nerfed twice, Kryse nerfed to the point where it is useless on all classes besides the Infiltrator, and only optimal on the GI as opposed to any other Infiltrator, and even then it's trash. (RoF bonus and damage bonuses in HM to slightly compensate for the nerf)

They effectively killed the weapon for all classes just to "balance" it on a few.


And if he's going to include consumables in his "test" then by his own logic the PPR setup I used earlier today was OP as hell. Melting bosses in seconds from across the map, with pinpoint accuracy and stacking massive DoT (Incendiary Ammo IV) along with PM debuff? nerfallthethings.jpg

Just because "Bioware might get it wrong again" isn't enough for me to completely disregard an unbalanced weapon.  And these stipulations don't mimic real game conditions and are obviously only being set up so op's test will fail.  

[Blackguard82]

NO. Stop with the damn nerf topics... If you think it is overpowered then don't use it! A lot of the guns are so bad it is a joke. Start fixing the rest of the guns and leave the few viable weapons for gold/plantinum alone damn it!

[Kyerea]

Ashen Earth wrote...

Javo2357 wrote...

CC-Tron wrote...

Javo2357 wrote...

I was pretty surprised the gun was buffed. A nerf is inevitable for this weapon, but I think they should just make it as heavy as the Claymore. It's either that or decrease the damage quite a bit and I'd rather have them increase the weight since it's a devastating CQC shotgun.

No that's a bad idea. Think about what your saying. Increasing the weight would only take the gun out of the niche it was intended to fill. A more powerful scimitar and also just as accessible to lighter classes. It's already heavier than the scimitar and much shorter range.

It's still pretty lightweight considering the damage it puts out. IMO the Scimitar should fire faster or have a damage buff but that's another issue. The DPS for this weapon just ridiculous (MUCH more powerful than a Scimitar).

The Piranha, as the OP pointed out, has a MUCH higher DPS than the Claymore. I think that's the main problem but IF it came down to nerfing the damage or the weight, I'd go with weight because honestly, this weapon is being used the most on classes specced for increased accuracy, RoF, and DPS, which aren't affected by weight as much. Perhaps I went to far suggesting it should be as heavy as the Claymore but I think the weapon should weigh a bit more taking all this into account.

And what would you say about the Wraith, which does as much damage per shot as a Widow X, has a two round clip, is as light as the Piranha, and is more accurate than the Claymore?

Edmonton's stance on the matter has been tiered weapon lists, Commons at the lowest --> Uncommons slightly more powerful --> Rares more powerful than Uncommons --> and URs are supposed to be greater or equal to Rares. Scimitar is **** because it's a lower-tier item. Not everything needs to be on equal footing if you are dealing with a superior category of weapons. Sure many Rare weapons aren't even ideal and are in need of buffing, but for the most part our current system is working. What we need are more buffs for many other Rare weapons across the other weapon categories.

Addendum: Lol, Piranha doing more damage than Claymore. That's only technically true in the sustained dps category, since Claymore wins out on burst dps. Didn't realize the Piranha could OSK a ****ing full-shield Centurion or Marauder on a headshot in Gold/Plat.

Modifié par Kyerea, 26 juillet 2012 - 08:25 .