1320 réponses à ce sujet

[Major Durza]

death_for_sale wrote...

Major Durza wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

Major Durza wrote...

Kyerea wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

Major Durza wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

I'll be uploading a platinum reaper wave and 3 waves of a reaper gold as time allows. Bear in mind that banshees are a bit harder to kill than atlas's (atlii? lol). Links will be in the main post. Also, bear in mind that while I can solo gold, i've not tried to solo plat and my recording program lags everything I do, so it's a bit sloppy.

Keep in mind that using a weapons platform is not going to help your point.  Don't use weapons platforms, or level III/IV consumables.

Lol wut?  You mean, don't play the game like you normally would?  Might as well ask him to play with one hand while you're at it.

Using a weapon on a class like the GI or Destroyer isn't going to prove a weapon is OP, only that the weapon is OP in the hands of said classes.

I dominated a Reaper Gold game a few hours ago using a GI with a PPR and Incendiary Ammo IV, but the PPR is hardly OP.

I was wondering when you'd find this thread Ash. 

I do not think Ashen's point can be emphasized enough.  You have yet to counter that jab, Death.

It would appear that I will have to level up one of my casters and make a 3rd video to counter it. Once I do, will that change your mind, honestly?

I'm not doing it tonight though, uploading these takes a long time and I need sleep.

As long as you are showcasing the Piranha, and not your massive skill with said class/powers you should be alright.

As I've stated before, I don't have massive skill. I would say that I am slightly above average, but not a top tier player like GP. Just because I can solo Gold does not make me skilled.

Can an average player solo Gold?  I do not think so.  I am well above your average PUG and I have not soloed Gold yet.

[Ashen One]

Heldarion wrote...

I dominated a Reaper Gold game a few hours ago using a GI with a PPR and Incendiary Ammo IV, but the PPR is hardly OP.

What's PPR?

Prothean Particle Rifle. The most hated UR gun on the forum right now.

death_for_sale wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...



They said the same thing about the Geth Infiltrator, and the Krysae and look where we are now.

GI
nerfed twice, Kryse nerfed to the point where it is useless on all
classes besides the Infiltrator, and only optimal on the GI as opposed
to any other Infiltrator, and even then it's trash. (RoF bonus and
damage bonuses in HM to slightly compensate for the nerf)

They effectively killed the weapon for all classes just to "balance" it on a few.


And
if he's going to include consumables in his "test" then by his own
logic the PPR setup I used earlier today was OP as hell. Melting bosses
in seconds from across the map, with pinpoint accuracy and stacking
massive DoT (Incendiary Ammo IV) along with PM debuff?
nerfallthethings.jpg

When I do make the caster
video, I will be using consumables. There is no logical reason not to
use the items we earn to increase the effectiveness of weapons. Do you
play without consumables? Do you not use the permanent gear bonus to
increase the power of your classes?

There is simply no excuse to
not use consumables with the addition of JEP's on a permanent basis.
It's the equivalent of testing the weapon at level 1 versus testing it
at it's most powerful (X).

I could argue that a Human Soldier is OP because Concussive Shot has a low cooldown and can be spammed for Tech Bursts from Disruptor Ammo, or that the Prothean Particle Rifle is OP because I can melt any armored enemy with Incendiary Ammo IV  from ridiculous distances, and with unlimited ammo on a Geth Infiltrator but that wouldn't make my claim credible.

Your claim is that the weapon is OP, so test the weapon on all classes (not just the Destroyer, and the GI) without consumables. We'll call it a controlled experiment.

[GroverA125]

Ashen Earth wrote...

And what would you say about the Wraith, which does as much damage per shot as a Widow X, has a two round clip, is as light as the Piranha, and is more accurate than the Claymore?

Interesting point, Ashen. I never really touched the Wraith, saw it too much as a Evi v.2 (now with golden paint!), just automatically assumed it'll be a Widow-Javelin argument (Lv. 10 Widow beats a Lv. 1 Javelin in most/all areas, it's only when both are Lv. 5+ that it's a truly decent fight between them.

as for everyone saying "Increase the weight", Look at the description of the weapon, does it say "weapon for krogans to lug about? No, it says "lighter-bodied species". Just to get that into your head, Geth, Turians, Humans and Krogans are NOT lighter-bodied species, Asari, Drell, Salarians, Quarians and Vorcha are.

[Baerdface]

Piranha is fine.

Modifié par Baerdface, 26 juillet 2012 - 08:33 .

[kevchy]

Hey OP, if you want to use consumables for your tests, make sure to do a separate run without consumables so that we can have more data to compare.

[Major Durza]

[quote]heybigmoney wrote...

[quote]Ashen Earth wrote...

[quote]heybigmoney wrote...

[quote]Ashen Earth wrote...

[quote]heybigmoney wrote...

[quote]Major Durza wrote...

[quote]death_for_sale wrote...

I'll be uploading a platinum reaper wave and 3 waves of a reaper gold as time allows. Bear in mind that banshees are a bit harder to kill than atlas's (atlii? lol). Links will be in the main post. Also, bear in mind that while I can solo gold, i've not tried to solo plat and my recording program lags everything I do, so it's a bit sloppy.[/quote]

Keep in mind that using a weapons platform is not going to help your point.  Don't use weapons platforms, or level III/IV consumables.

[/quote]

Lol wut?  You mean, don't play the game like you normally would?  Might as well ask him to play with one hand while you're at it.


[/quote]


Using a weapon on a class like the GI or Destroyer isn't going to prove a weapon is OP, only that the weapon is OP in the hands of said classes.

I dominated a Reaper Gold game a few hours ago using a GI with a PPR and Incendiary Ammo IV, but the PPR is hardly OP.
[/quote]

This is a valid point, but the community is never going to be receptive to nerfing any of these classes.  The stipulation of not using consumables seems unreasonable to me considering we are testing against platinum bosses.

[/quote]

They said the same thing about the Geth Infiltrator, and the Krysae and look where we are now.

GI nerfed twice, Kryse nerfed to the point where it is useless on all classes besides the Infiltrator, and only optimal on the GI as opposed to any other Infiltrator, and even then it's trash. (RoF bonus and damage bonuses in HM to slightly compensate for the nerf)

They effectively killed the weapon for all classes just to "balance" it on a few.


And if he's going to include consumables in his "test" then by his own logic the PPR setup I used earlier today was OP as hell. Melting bosses in seconds from across the map, with pinpoint accuracy and stacking massive DoT (Incendiary Ammo IV) along with PM debuff? nerfallthethings.jpg

[/quote]

Just because "Bioware might get it wrong again" isn't enough for me to completely disregard an unbalanced weapon.  And these stipulations don't mimic real game conditions and are obviously only being set up so op's test will fail.  

[/quote]

My real game conditions rarely have me using consumables, since I put a lot more money in PSP's than I do SP's, and I RARELY see level III consumables used in a Gold match, and I PUG exclusively.
If he uses AP Ammo III or IV, shotgun rail amp III, shotgun amp V, and Cyclonic Modulator IV I am going to flip a table.  That will make anything melt bosses.

[quote]death_for_sale wrote...

[quote]Major Durza wrote...

[quote]Javo2357 wrote...

[quote]CC-Tron wrote...

[quote]Javo2357 wrote...

I was pretty surprised the gun was buffed. A nerf is inevitable for this weapon, but I think they should just make it as heavy as the Claymore. It's either that or decrease the damage quite a bit and I'd rather have them increase the weight since it's a devastating CQC shotgun.[/quote]

No that's a bad idea. Think about what your saying. Increasing the weight would only take the gun out of the niche it was intended to fill. A more powerful scimitar and also just as accessible to lighter classes. It's already heavier than the scimitar and much shorter range.

[/quote]

It's still pretty lightweight considering the damage it puts out. IMO the Scimitar should fire faster or have a damage buff but that's another issue. The DPS for this weapon just ridiculous (MUCH more powerful than a Scimitar).

The Piranha, as the OP pointed out, has a MUCH higher DPS than the Claymore. I think that's the main problem but IF it came down to nerfing the damage or the weight, I'd go with weight because honestly, this weapon is being used the most on classes specced for increased accuracy, RoF, and DPS, which aren't affected by weight as much. Perhaps I went to far suggesting it should be as heavy as the Claymore but I think the weapon should weigh a bit more taking all this into account.
[/quote]

SO Much wrong with this line of thought that was addressed only a few pages ago!
Spread, doesn't match silouette of enemies, most of pellets not hitting!  Rate of Fire, exposes you, requires you get shot at while dealing damage, have to take cover, interrupt DPS.  Claymore, shoot once, massive damage, get out of the way, profit.

It is OP in weaponmaster classes, so you propose changes that affect ALL of the classes that it is not OP on.  Doesn't make sense!

[/quote]

You aim slightly to the right or left and 6 of those pellets will hit frequently. On anything large, like a ravager, brute, or atlas, you are going to get all of those pellets on target.



[/quote] 

Here is where "Real game conditions" come into play.  You have to be more or less out in the open, dancing with a Brute in the middle of a Reaper match while you empty your clip into it.  Close range, mind you, you don't have those nice accuracy bonuses.  Ravagers shooting at you, the banshees closing in, the Marauders going for a good flank, oh boy oh boy!

[Major Durza]

death_for_sale wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

Heldarion wrote...

I dominated a Reaper Gold game a few hours ago using a GI with a PPR and Incendiary Ammo IV, but the PPR is hardly OP.

What's PPR?

Prothean Particle Rifle. The most hated UR gun on the forum right now.

death_for_sale wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...



They said the same thing about the Geth Infiltrator, and the Krysae and look where we are now.

GI
nerfed twice, Kryse nerfed to the point where it is useless on all
classes besides the Infiltrator, and only optimal on the GI as opposed
to any other Infiltrator, and even then it's trash. (RoF bonus and
damage bonuses in HM to slightly compensate for the nerf)

They effectively killed the weapon for all classes just to "balance" it on a few.


And
if he's going to include consumables in his "test" then by his own
logic the PPR setup I used earlier today was OP as hell. Melting bosses
in seconds from across the map, with pinpoint accuracy and stacking
massive DoT (Incendiary Ammo IV) along with PM debuff?
nerfallthethings.jpg

When I do make the caster
video, I will be using consumables. There is no logical reason not to
use the items we earn to increase the effectiveness of weapons. Do you
play without consumables? Do you not use the permanent gear bonus to
increase the power of your classes?

There is simply no excuse to
not use consumables with the addition of JEP's on a permanent basis.
It's the equivalent of testing the weapon at level 1 versus testing it
at it's most powerful (X).

I could argue that a Human Soldier is OP because Concussive Shot has a low cooldown and can be spammed for Tech Bursts from Disruptor Ammo, or that the Prothean Particle Rifle is OP because I can melt any armored enemy with Incendiary Ammo IV  from ridiculous distances, and with unlimited ammo on a Geth Infiltrator but that wouldn't make my claim credible.

Your claim is that the weapon is OP, so test the weapon on all classes (not just the Destroyer, and the GI) without consumables. We'll call it a controlled experiment.

I will be using it on a caster class with consumables that are readily available to any player of this game. If this does not meet with your approval, make your own video.

I most certainly will, if you slant your video hard enough.

[Mad Scientist]

OP, no, just no, I mean HELL NO. As in go to hell and don't come back. This gun doesn't need a nerf at all. Prinha is what Scimitar should've been. Go find something else to cry about.

[GroverA125]

death_for_sale wrote...

I will be using it on a caster class with consumables that are readily available to any player of this game. If this does not meet with your approval, make your own video.

You really don't get it do you? Your conditions are not considered agreeable. The whole point of your videos is to prove to others that the Pirahna is OP (unless you're just doing this for attention and/or digital credit), if the conditions are disagreed upon, there's no point in doing a video.

If you want to prove that it's overpowered, then no equipment is to be taken, as to make the method re-enactable in a widespread area. A scientist doesn't use his "special concoction" during an experiment to prove that <insert compound here> is volatile, as that nullifies the whole point of the experiment. Either don't put any equipment on, or don't bother with the video, you won't prove anything, except that you are stubborn and refuse to make a fair test, possibly because you know you are incorrect, possibly not. Doesn't matter.

[Ashen One]

heybigmoney wrote...

Just because "Bioware might get it wrong again" isn't enough for me to completely disregard an unbalanced weapon.  And these stipulations don't mimic real game conditions and are obviously only being set up so op's test will fail.  

Not really, they are there so that his test will showcase the weapon, and only the weapon as opposed to Warp/Incendiary ammo mystery damage or Disruptor ammo/Overload TB spam. His argument is that the weapon is overpowered to the point that it is the optimal choice on every character, so his tests should ideally feature the weapon being used on all of the classes against all of the factions without consumables. If a weapon is only good with consumables, it is not OP.

[Major Durza]

death_for_sale wrote...

first video up, link in OP

I don't see it.

Edit: see the link now, must have been a delay

Modifié par Major Durza, 26 juillet 2012 - 08:36 .

[HiGamerCAT]

death_for_sale wrote...

dr_random wrote...

Constructing a case on a specific character and skillset doesn't prove your point, OP. I hardly hit anything with the gun farther than close range and when I do, only few pellets hit.
It is a powerful gun but on most classes but you have to close in to use it to full potential, I think it just works great how it is.

Be honest, do you carry it on most of your characters or not?

OP - I love this shotty on my GI, however implying that now all players will pick it up "cause it's that awesome" is a bit overstatement. Case and point (me) - play gold (mostly) and platinum (maybe ~30% of all games of the day). My top guns (no particular order - they depend on the specific class i play with):
- GPS
- Hornet
- Piranha
- Claymore
- Cerberus Harrier
- Typhoon on new soldier (but i rarerly play this class - not my style)
- Tempest

Each one of those guns I used on platinum (and no I dont do FBW/C/P - I talk about U/R/P (love reapers... )and sometimes U/U/P). I comeout #1 in over 90% games (if not more). I often see players pick up guns from new DLC all the time when they 1st get them - and then once the hype passes they move on. LEts not jump into conclusions based on your expierence, gaming ability (yes it matters - not everyone can make certain weapons "dance"), out-of-game tests to call for changes. It is a bit too early.

[Acekilleriii]

Major Durza wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

Major Durza wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

Major Durza wrote...

Kyerea wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

Major Durza wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

I'll be uploading a platinum reaper wave and 3 waves of a reaper gold as time allows. Bear in mind that banshees are a bit harder to kill than atlas's (atlii? lol). Links will be in the main post. Also, bear in mind that while I can solo gold, i've not tried to solo plat and my recording program lags everything I do, so it's a bit sloppy.

Keep in mind that using a weapons platform is not going to help your point.  Don't use weapons platforms, or level III/IV consumables.

Lol wut?  You mean, don't play the game like you normally would?  Might as well ask him to play with one hand while you're at it.

Using a weapon on a class like the GI or Destroyer isn't going to prove a weapon is OP, only that the weapon is OP in the hands of said classes.

I dominated a Reaper Gold game a few hours ago using a GI with a PPR and Incendiary Ammo IV, but the PPR is hardly OP.

I was wondering when you'd find this thread Ash. 

I do not think Ashen's point can be emphasized enough.  You have yet to counter that jab, Death.

It would appear that I will have to level up one of my casters and make a 3rd video to counter it. Once I do, will that change your mind, honestly?

I'm not doing it tonight though, uploading these takes a long time and I need sleep.

As long as you are showcasing the Piranha, and not your massive skill with said class/powers you should be alright.

As I've stated before, I don't have massive skill. I would say that I am slightly above average, but not a top tier player like GP. Just because I can solo Gold does not make me skilled.

Can an average player solo Gold?  I do not think so.  I am well above your average PUG and I have not soloed Gold yet.

Come one Come all! Prepare to ride the Quote Train!

[Major Durza]

*Rolls eyes* well, he went all out with the consumables. AP Ammo III, shotgun amp III, Shotgun amp V, and Adrenaline module II using an N7 Destroyer to showcase how OP the new shotgun is on Firbase Glacier.

Yep, you applied gasoline to the bonfire to show how big of a flame water-oak wood makes.

Modifié par Major Durza, 26 juillet 2012 - 08:43 .

[Javo2357]

Major Durza wrote...

Javo2357 wrote...

CC-Tron wrote...

Javo2357 wrote...

I was pretty surprised the gun was buffed. A nerf is inevitable for this weapon, but I think they should just make it as heavy as the Claymore. It's either that or decrease the damage quite a bit and I'd rather have them increase the weight since it's a devastating CQC shotgun.

No that's a bad idea. Think about what your saying. Increasing the weight would only take the gun out of the niche it was intended to fill. A more powerful scimitar and also just as accessible to lighter classes. It's already heavier than the scimitar and much shorter range.

It's still pretty lightweight considering the damage it puts out. IMO the Scimitar should fire faster or have a damage buff but that's another issue. The DPS for this weapon just ridiculous (MUCH more powerful than a Scimitar).

The Piranha, as the OP pointed out, has a MUCH higher DPS than the Claymore. I think that's the main problem but IF it came down to nerfing the damage or the weight, I'd go with weight because honestly, this weapon is being used the most on classes specced for increased accuracy, RoF, and DPS, which aren't affected by weight as much. Perhaps I went to far suggesting it should be as heavy as the Claymore but I think the weapon should weigh a bit more taking all this into account.

SO Much wrong with this line of thought that was addressed only a few pages ago!
Spread, doesn't match silouette of enemies, most of pellets not hitting!  Rate of Fire, exposes you, requires you get shot at while dealing damage, have to take cover, interrupt DPS.  Claymore, shoot once, massive damage, get out of the way, profit.

It is OP in weaponmaster classes, so you propose changes that affect ALL of the classes that it is not OP on.  Doesn't make sense!

Since it's an automatic shotgun, you have to sustain fire for a bit to
get your max DPS like you have pointed out, which inherently limits
it a bit to classes that can take a bit more punishment.

Like I said, IF IT CAME DOWN TO IT, what would you rather see get nerfed? The weapon's damage output? Or it's weight?

IF...
-Accuracy is nerfed, it will make it even more difficult to hit anything you can't melee.
-If RoT is nerfed, it defeats the purpose of having an automatic shotgun since I can pull the trigger faster than it will fire automatically.
-If the recoil is nerfed, once again, harder to hit targets.
-If damage per pellet is nerfed it could still be very viable as long as it is a light nerf.
-Magazine capacity being decreased is another option that I think is fair. 6 shots sounds reasonable.
-If weight is increased, it remains the same but it does limit it a bit for classes that depends on very low cooldowns.

So IMO IF I HAD TO PICK I would go with the weight nerf (not too much more weight) or a mag reduction.

Modifié par Javo2357, 26 juillet 2012 - 08:43 .

[Javo2357]

[quote]Acekilleriii wrote...

[quote]Major Durza wrote...

[quote]death_for_sale wrote...

[quote]Major Durza wrote...

[quote]death_for_sale wrote...

[quote]Major Durza wrote...

[quote]Kyerea wrote...

[quote]Ashen Earth wrote...

[quote]heybigmoney wrote...

[quote]Major Durza wrote...

[quote]death_for_sale wrote...

I'll be uploading a platinum reaper wave and 3 waves of a reaper gold as time allows. Bear in mind that banshees are a bit harder to kill than atlas's (atlii? lol). Links will be in the main post. Also, bear in mind that while I can solo gold, i've not tried to solo plat and my recording program lags everything I do, so it's a bit sloppy.[/quote]

Keep in mind that using a weapons platform is not going to help your point.  Don't use weapons platforms, or level III/IV consumables.

[/quote]

Lol wut?  You mean, don't play the game like you normally would?  Might as well ask him to play with one hand while you're at it.


[/quote]


Using a weapon on a class like the GI or Destroyer isn't going to prove a weapon is OP, only that the weapon is OP in the hands of said classes.

I dominated a Reaper Gold game a few hours ago using a GI with a PPR and Incendiary Ammo IV, but the PPR is hardly OP.
[/quote]

I was wondering when you'd find this thread Ash. 

[/quote]

I do not think Ashen's point can be emphasized enough.  You have yet to counter that jab, Death.

[/quote]

It would appear that I will have to level up one of my casters and make a 3rd video to counter it. Once I do, will that change your mind, honestly?

I'm not doing it tonight though, uploading these takes a long time and I need sleep.

[/quote]

As long as you are showcasing the Piranha, and not your massive skill with said class/powers you should be alright.

[/quote]

As I've stated before, I don't have massive skill. I would say that I am slightly above average, but not a top tier player like GP. Just because I can solo Gold does not make me skilled.

[/quote]

Can an average player solo Gold?  I do not think so.  I am well above your average PUG and I have not soloed Gold yet.

[/quote]

Come one Come all! Prepare to ride the Quote Train!

[/quote]

ALL ABOARD!!!

[StrawHatMoose]

Let's swap the Javelin with this in the ultra rare slot.
I'd say no to the nerfing, I don't want a Scimitar 2.0. Buff the other weapons that need buffing (Javelin especially).
It is quite good though, so if they are going to nerf it, I'd say lower the damage to it's original.
By the way, I can't wait to see when this OP cries about the Raider having too high of a DPS (Around 1700 at Level I)

[Ashen One]

Brb, posting a Javelin nerf thread because with Warp Ammo IV, Sniper Rail amp III, Sniper amp V, and PM debuff, on a GI specced for sniper damage, Geth weapon damage, and damage in HM I can wipe the floor with Reapers

Modifié par Ashen Earth, 26 juillet 2012 - 08:43 .

[Major Durza]

Ashen Earth wrote...

Brb, posting a Javelin nerf thread because with Warp Ammo IV, Sniper Rail amp III, Sniper amp V, and PM debuff, on a GI specced for sniper damage, Geth weapon damage, and damage in HM I can wipe the floor with Reapers

Do the same with the Prothean Particle Rifle!

[Acekilleriii]

[quote]Javo2357 wrote...

[quote]Acekilleriii wrote...

[quote]Major Durza wrote...

[quote]death_for_sale wrote...

[quote]Major Durza wrote...

[quote]death_for_sale wrote...

[quote]Major Durza wrote...

[quote]Kyerea wrote...

[quote]Ashen Earth wrote...

[quote]heybigmoney wrote...

[quote]Major Durza wrote...

[quote]death_for_sale wrote...

I'll be uploading a platinum reaper wave and 3 waves of a reaper gold as time allows. Bear in mind that banshees are a bit harder to kill than atlas's (atlii? lol). Links will be in the main post. Also, bear in mind that while I can solo gold, i've not tried to solo plat and my recording program lags everything I do, so it's a bit sloppy.[/quote]

Keep in mind that using a weapons platform is not going to help your point.  Don't use weapons platforms, or level III/IV consumables.

[/quote]

Lol wut?  You mean, don't play the game like you normally would?  Might as well ask him to play with one hand while you're at it.


[/quote]


Using a weapon on a class like the GI or Destroyer isn't going to prove a weapon is OP, only that the weapon is OP in the hands of said classes.

I dominated a Reaper Gold game a few hours ago using a GI with a PPR and Incendiary Ammo IV, but the PPR is hardly OP.
[/quote]

I was wondering when you'd find this thread Ash. 

[/quote]

I do not think Ashen's point can be emphasized enough.  You have yet to counter that jab, Death.

[/quote]

It would appear that I will have to level up one of my casters and make a 3rd video to counter it. Once I do, will that change your mind, honestly?

I'm not doing it tonight though, uploading these takes a long time and I need sleep.

[/quote]

As long as you are showcasing the Piranha, and not your massive skill with said class/powers you should be alright.

[/quote]

As I've stated before, I don't have massive skill. I would say that I am slightly above average, but not a top tier player like GP. Just because I can solo Gold does not make me skilled.

[/quote]

Can an average player solo Gold?  I do not think so.  I am well above your average PUG and I have not soloed Gold yet.

[/quote]

Come one Come all! Prepare to ride the Quote Train!

[/quote]

ALL ABOARD!!!

[/quote]

^^ <3

[Ashen One]

death_for_sale wrote...

As I said earlier, feel free to make a video showing how terrible the gun is. I know that 3 out of 4 players I am playing with on Gold and Platinum are using it fairly exclusively. I use it myself on everything because it makes the game much easier. When those stats roll in, the weapon is going to be killed like the Krysae, it is inevitable unless we take a smaller hit now.

tl;dr version

[Pitznik]

Seriously, why he wouldn't use consumables? Consumables are supposed to be used, that half people on Gold doesn't use them at all is a whole different problem.