1320 réponses à ce sujet

[Mysteryman2000]

@ OP, go find a hole dude and don't use it if you don't like it. Probably because he is not first place in the CO-OP matches. Dude I would still cream your score without it.

[Core_Commander]

Major Durza wrote...

Hulk Hsieh wrote...

BLY78NOR wrote...

Destroyer is one of a handful of classes where the gun isn't total crap, lets nerf it so it's useless for absolutelly everyone.

I kind of agree.

So my own idea for the balance is to make the accuracy bouns from power not applying to shotguns.
Well... only if Bioware see this post....

I actually really like that idea.  It probably won't stop the nerfmongering, but it is a real fix to the problem.

This is an excellent idea, to be honest. Space magic limiting pellet spread has always been bothering my brain's logic centers a little.

[DAFerelden91]

A frigging massive HELL NO to this post.

[TeamLexana]

I just watched the first vid, can't veiw the second yet and it says it's still being processed and I've got to say I'm insulted by that vid. If you can't see why that vid doesn't prove why a gun is OP, you don't deserve my time and I dub the King Troll for the rest of time.

[Javo2357]

Hulk Hsieh wrote...

I am with you on that the weapon is OP, especially with a Destroyer.
And I'm quite sure that it will get nerfed quite badly in near future.
So how about call it a day and just wait for the inevitable?

Pretty much this. Fun weapon, going to keep using it, probably even after it gets nerfed a bit.

[GroverA125]

StrawHatMoose wrote...

GroverA125 wrote...

StrawHatMoose wrote...

GroverA125 wrote...

Core_Commander wrote...

Yeah, it's not good. That's why it's used on every class, often with 2-3 people using it per game.

The truth is in the playing?

Rule one mate: Everyone you meet online is an idiot, treat them so.

Everyone used to run around with Black Widows on any class they could find. Didn't mean it was overpowered. In fact, many of those combinations can be outmatched with lighter weapons, and better synergize with the classes. Some people just think that <insert class here> + Big bulky weapon = ultimate weapon in the game. Sadly, that isn't always true.

Rule 2: This is BSN. Eveyone either whines, trolls or is an idiot. Get over it.

Not really my point. Just saying that people using a certain thing doesn't make it overpowered. If it's significantly different in proportion to then entire playerbase, then it deserves investigation, but it doesn't immediately mean "overpowered".

Wait was your original post to me or to him? Anyway, I did say that using it with certain things down't mean it's OP. 

It was to Core_Commander, since you can't assume that if everyone uses something, it's immediately OP. In call of Duty, many people use the M4A1, yet it's by far not the most overpowered weapon out there.

Modifié par GroverA125, 26 juillet 2012 - 09:33 .

[Cornughon]

[quote]Kyerea wrote...

[quote]iLaPis wrote...

[quote]Kyerea wrote...

[quote]3XT3RM1N4TUS wrote...

[quote]DanielsMind wrote...

[quote]BLY78NOR wrote...

[quote]DanielsMind wrote...

[quote]Kyerea wrote...

[quote]3XT3RM1N4TUS wrote...

[quote]Acekilleriii wrote...

[quote]Kyerea wrote...

[quote]3XT3RM1N4TUS wrote...

[quote]Kyerea wrote...

[quote]Javo2357 wrote...

[quote]Acekilleriii wrote...

[quote]Major Durza wrote...

[quote]death_for_sale wrote...

[quote]Major Durza wrote...

[quote]death_for_sale wrote...

[quote]Major Durza wrote...

[quote]Kyerea wrote...

[quote]Ashen Earth wrote...

[quote]heybigmoney wrote...

[quote]Major Durza wrote...

[quote]death_for_sale wrote...

I'll be uploading a platinum reaper wave and 3 waves of a reaper gold as time allows. Bear in mind that banshees are a bit harder to kill than atlas's (atlii? lol). Links will be in the main post. Also, bear in mind that while I can solo gold, i've not tried to solo plat and my recording program lags everything I do, so it's a bit sloppy.[/quote]

Keep in mind that using a weapons platform is not going to help your point.  Don't use weapons platforms, or level III/IV consumables.

[/quote]

Lol wut?  You mean, don't play the game like you normally would?  Might as well ask him to play with one hand while you're at it.


[/quote]


Using a weapon on a class like the GI or Destroyer isn't going to prove a weapon is OP, only that the weapon is OP in the hands of said classes.

I dominated a Reaper Gold game a few hours ago using a GI with a PPR and Incendiary Ammo IV, but the PPR is hardly OP.
[/quote]

I was wondering when you'd find this thread Ash. 

[/quote]

I do not think Ashen's point can be emphasized enough.  You have yet to counter that jab, Death.

[/quote]

It would appear that I will have to level up one of my casters and make a 3rd video to counter it. Once I do, will that change your mind, honestly?

I'm not doing it tonight though, uploading these takes a long time and I need sleep.

[/quote]

As long as you are showcasing the Piranha, and not your massive skill with said class/powers you should be alright.

[/quote]

As I've stated before, I don't have massive skill. I would say that I am slightly above average, but not a top tier player like GP. Just because I can solo Gold does not make me skilled.

[/quote]

Can an average player solo Gold?  I do not think so.  I am well above your average PUG and I have not soloed Gold yet.

[/quote]

Come one Come all! Prepare to ride the Quote Train!

[/quote]

ALL ABOARD!!!

[/quote]

"Hi folks, this is your train conductor. It seems we've run into some issues, apparently MagLev trains are too efficient and they've been nerfed. We've gone back to coal and would appreciate some volunteers for coal-shoveling duty. Thank you for riding the Quote Train folks, sit back and enjoy the crawl.[/quote]
Just quoted to continue the Train

[/quote]

But... it's the Quote Train... not a pyramid...

;______;

[/quote]

Fixed!


[/quote]
Thank you, my bad

[/quote]

GET ON THE QUOTE TRAIN! QUOTE TRAIN!

[/quote]

nerf the quote train!

[/quote]

Nerf the nerfers who wanna nerf the quote train!

[/quote]

nerf the poster who wanted me nerfed!

[/quote]
I just buffed quote train.

[/quote]

*Checks engine*

Nope, still using coal. We're still effectively nerfed until our MagLev is restored.

[/quote]
Buffing 'quote train'. Buff everything!!!
[/quote]

Our quote train finally has MagLev again! HUZZAH! [/quote]
Damn this train goes fast! How long 'till we reach our destination?

[Pitznik]

Felis Menari wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

Seriously, why he wouldn't use consumables? Consumables are supposed to be used, that half people on Gold doesn't use them at all is a whole different problem.

Think of it like this; consumables are extras, not to be taken into account when considering what a regular loadout is (that's how I think of it, anyways). It is entirely possible to run out of consumables that you make use of often, and when that happens, the supposedly overpowered setup which takes them into account suddenly becomes much less so. I've been buying PSPs pretty much exclusively ever since they become a permanent fixture of the item store. The consumable buff items rewarded by them aren't terribly common. Definitely not a reliable way of obtaining the buff items that the OP is using in the tests he's running.

So the way I see it, buying many jumbo equipment packs would be the only feasible way of gaining the buff items at a rate in which using them in matches consistently would be feasible. This of course would hurt a player's ability to obtain weapons, characters, and other gear. How the OP is performing tests and making judgements which take finite booster items into account...it seems rather absurd. Not the right way to go about it, if you ask me.

I don't consider consumables "extra" on Gold and especially Platinum. If you run out of consumables and you're not a God's gift to ME3MP, you should resupply.

[Tal_Elmar]

how about big fat NO?

[RecoonHoodie]

Maybe BioWare wanted some better than claymore? A even better boss killer? Please stop posting in this thread, or just spam NO, so the nerfers get ****ed in the shi hole and go in hell...

[Core_Commander]

GroverA125 wrote...

It was to Core_Commander, since you can't assume that if everyone uses something, it's immediately OP. In call of Duty, many people use the M4A1, yet it's by far not the most overpowered weapon out there.

Ah, I agree that correlation doesn't equal causation. Still, the abundance of one thing usually means something, then it's just the matter of figuring out what triggered the popularity. Either way, the game is afoot.

In this case, after using it nearly exclusively myself for a good week, seeing people good enough to be making Platinum guides advocate it as either the supreme option for certain classes (Stardusk) or optimal for nearly any class (LaCokaNostradamus), AS WELL as seeing everyone using it (especially on a geth infiltrator, to frightening effect)... The conclusion is that yes, and yes.

The masses are on to something this time. This is the current Golden Gun, with a few classes able to make it utterly broken, and pretty much all others being able to use it as "it's the best for your class" option.

Modifié par Core_Commander, 26 juillet 2012 - 09:53 .

[Ashen One]

Pitznik wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

Seriously, why he wouldn't use consumables? Consumables are supposed to be used, that half people on Gold doesn't use them at all is a whole different problem.

If a weapon is only worth using when used with consumables, it's definitely not OP.

What you consider to be a regular situation in Gold/Platinum: consumables equipped or not?

It depends on the player's skill level among other things. Personally, I don't use them in the majority of the games I play, but my point was that if his argument that the gun is OP is reliant on the RNG and every applicable weapon damage bonus in the game, then it's a crappy argument.

Pitznik wrote...
Gun is OP when you get results better than expected when used in normal circumstances. People that do not equip consumables for hardest difficulties shouldn't even win, unless they are really skilled.

I would say that a gun is "OP" when it can trivialize high difficulties for unskilled players, as the pre-nerf Krysae did on Infiltrators. So far, I haven't really seen that with the Piranha.

Pitznik wrote...
Having said that, I am curious about Piranha's performance on class that isn't built for optimal weapon damage. If they're not OP, then weapon itself is not OP, but specific combos might be: GI/Piranha, TS/Piranha or Destro/Piranha (did I really just call Turian Soldier OP? wtf).

My point exactly, nerfing the gun to "balance" it for those 3 classes will ruin it for everyone else that can make use of it. (Sentinels, Vanguards, CQC Adepts)

[Kyerea]

Hulk Hsieh wrote...

Kyerea wrote...

And you clearly need to play more of the game before you start posting what is or isn't OP. Or maybe understand character/class ability attributes and how they change the way weapons perform out of their base stats. Especially when it's just two classes in the game that drastically change the way a weapon performs because they are weapon-based classes.

Addendum: Nice Piranha III you have there btw.

Yeah... I found that with only III I can erase the full armor of an Atlas within 1 clip with a TS.
Dare not image what will happen if I have an X.

[Kyerea]

Ashen Earth wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

Seriously, why he wouldn't use consumables? Consumables are supposed to be used, that half people on Gold doesn't use them at all is a whole different problem.

If a weapon is only worth using when used with consumables, it's definitely not OP.

What you consider to be a regular situation in Gold/Platinum: consumables equipped or not?

It depends on the player's skill level among other things. Personally, I don't use them in the majority of the games I play, but my point was that if his argument that the gun is OP is reliant on the RNG and every applicable weapon damage bonus in the game, then it's a crappy argument.

Pitznik wrote...
Gun is OP when you get results better than expected when used in normal circumstances. People that do not equip consumables for hardest difficulties shouldn't even win, unless they are really skilled.

I would say that a gun is "OP" when it can trivialize high difficulties for unskilled players, as the pre-nerf Krysae did on Infiltrators. So far, I haven't really seen that with the Piranha.

Pitznik wrote...
Having said that, I am curious about Piranha's performance on class that isn't built for optimal weapon damage. If they're not OP, then weapon itself is not OP, but specific combos might be: GI/Piranha, TS/Piranha or Destro/Piranha (did I really just call Turian Soldier OP? wtf).

My point exactly, nerfing the gun to "balance" it for those 3 classes will ruin it for everyone else that can make use of it. (Sentinels, Vanguards, CQC Adepts)

Don't forget Engineers. Gives them a good CQC weapon for when things get dicey, it's light weight keeps their cooldowns at a good rate.

[FMT]

Modifié par FMT, 26 juillet 2012 - 09:47 .

[Felis Menari]

Pitznik wrote...

Felis Menari wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

Seriously, why he wouldn't use consumables? Consumables are supposed to be used, that half people on Gold doesn't use them at all is a whole different problem.

Think of it like this; consumables are extras, not to be taken into account when considering what a regular loadout is (that's how I think of it, anyways). It is entirely possible to run out of consumables that you make use of often, and when that happens, the supposedly overpowered setup which takes them into account suddenly becomes much less so. I've been buying PSPs pretty much exclusively ever since they become a permanent fixture of the item store. The consumable buff items rewarded by them aren't terribly common. Definitely not a reliable way of obtaining the buff items that the OP is using in the tests he's running.

So the way I see it, buying many jumbo equipment packs would be the only feasible way of gaining the buff items at a rate in which using them in matches consistently would be feasible. This of course would hurt a player's ability to obtain weapons, characters, and other gear. How the OP is performing tests and making judgements which take finite booster items into account...it seems rather absurd. Not the right way to go about it, if you ask me.

I don't consider consumables "extra" on Gold and especially Platinum. If you run out of consumables and you're not a God's gift to ME3MP, you should resupply.

I've done gold matches in the past without buffs. Wasn't easy, but was absolutely doable. Haven't done platinum without any buffs applied yet. Anyhow, my point is that consumable buffs shouldn't be considered part of a regular loadout since they are not absolutely necessary and are finite.

Modifié par Felis Menari, 26 juillet 2012 - 09:51 .

[Kyerea]

Felis Menari wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

Felis Menari wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

Seriously, why he wouldn't use consumables? Consumables are supposed to be used, that half people on Gold doesn't use them at all is a whole different problem.

Think of it like this; consumables are extras, not to be taken into account when considering what a regular loadout is (that's how I think of it, anyways). It is entirely possible to run out of consumables that you make use of often, and when that happens, the supposedly overpowered setup which takes them into account suddenly becomes much less so. I've been buying PSPs pretty much exclusively ever since they become a permanent fixture of the item store. The consumable buff items rewarded by them aren't terribly common. Definitely not a reliable way of obtaining the buff items that the OP is using in the tests he's running.

So the way I see it, buying many jumbo equipment packs would be the only feasible way of gaining the buff items at a rate in which using them in matches consistently would be feasible. This of course would hurt a player's ability to obtain weapons, characters, and other gear. How the OP is performing tests and making judgements which take finite booster items into account...it seems rather absurd. Not the right way to go about it, if you ask me.

I don't consider consumables "extra" on Gold and especially Platinum. If you run out of consumables and you're not a God's gift to ME3MP, you should resupply.

I've done gold matches in the past without buffs. Wasn't easy, but was absolutely doable. Haven't done platinum without any buffs applied yet. Anyhow, my point is that consumable buffs shouldn't be considered part of a regular loadout since they are not absolutely necessary and are finite.

Agreed, there's been many times I didn't use my equipment/consumables in Gold runs.

[BLY78NOR]

Hulk Hsieh wrote...

Kyerea wrote...

And you clearly need to play more of the game before you start posting what is or isn't OP. Or maybe understand character/class ability attributes and how they change the way weapons perform out of their base stats. Especially when it's just two classes in the game that drastically change the way a weapon performs because they are weapon-based classes.

Addendum: Nice Piranha III you have there btw.

Yeah... I found that with only III I can erase the full armor of an Atlas within 1 clip with a TS.
Dare not image what will happen if I have an X.

If i use anything but AP ammo it takes me more then 1 clip with it at 10 on a destroyer (that's 10 shots not 8) so i am going to go ahead and call shennanigans here. Uless of course it's silver or bronze

[Ashen One]

BLY78NOR wrote...

Hulk Hsieh wrote...

Kyerea wrote...

And you clearly need to play more of the game before you start posting what is or isn't OP. Or maybe understand character/class ability attributes and how they change the way weapons perform out of their base stats. Especially when it's just two classes in the game that drastically change the way a weapon performs because they are weapon-based classes.

Addendum: Nice Piranha III you have there btw.

Yeah... I found that with only III I can erase the full armor of an Atlas within 1 clip with a TS.
Dare not image what will happen if I have an X.

If i use anything but AP ammo it takes me more then 1 clip with it at 10 on a destroyer (that's 10 shots not 8) so i am going to go ahead and call shennanigans here. Uless of course it's silver or bronze

I can do the same with less than 1 clip from the PPR on a GI with
Incendiary Ammo IV, and an AR Rail Amp III after a PM debuff, but the gun is most certainly not
OP despite the fact that it has a better effective range than the
Piranha and unlimited ammo.

Modifié par Ashen Earth, 26 juillet 2012 - 09:54 .

[BLY78NOR]

Ashen Earth wrote...



I can do the same with less than 1 clip from the PPR on a GI with
Incendiary Ammo IV after a PM debuff, but the gun is most certainly not
OP despite the fact that it has a better effective range than the
Piranha and unlimited ammo.

I'm gonna have to go try that now, tried the PPR once and thought it sucked and never tired it again

[Pitznik]

Felis Menari wrote...


I've done gold matches in the past without buffs. Wasn't easy, but was absolutely doable. Haven't done platinum without any buffs applied yet. Anyhow, my point is that consumable buffs shouldn't be considered part of a regular loadout since they are not absolutely necessary and are finite.

Maybe you are that good? Or someone carried you? Former is not the average, and latter is just wrong, so I wouldn't like to consider those cases. I think that average players doing Gold should need consumables to comfortably succeed, but yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, uh, my opinion, man. Medi-gel and rockets are also not absolutely necessary and are finite, but showing without them is just wrong. I think about consumables the same way, that is why I think test with consumables are actually more realistic than without them.

Bioware developed itself in a corner a bit here. New powerful weapons are straight out buff for weaponmasters, but biotics need them too, since their powers do not get stronger with new expansion. Maybe there should be like weapon mods or items equippable in weapon slots, that affect the strength of powers, so weapons wouldn't make weapon users OP but power users just viable at the same time? It is not a good situation when you try to balance weapon users and at the same time you nerf biotics/technicians for no good reason.

Modifié par Pitznik, 26 juillet 2012 - 09:58 .

[Ashen One]

BLY78NOR wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...



I can do the same with less than 1 clip from the PPR on a GI with
Incendiary Ammo IV after a PM debuff, but the gun is most certainly not
OP despite the fact that it has a better effective range than the
Piranha and unlimited ammo.

I'm gonna have to go try that now, tried the PPR once and thought it sucked and never tired it again

Extended clip/AP

Melt ALL the armor.

[CC-Tron]

Pitznik wrote...

Felis Menari wrote...


I've done gold matches in the past without buffs. Wasn't easy, but was absolutely doable. Haven't done platinum without any buffs applied yet. Anyhow, my point is that consumable buffs shouldn't be considered part of a regular loadout since they are not absolutely necessary and are finite.

Maybe you are that good? Or someone carried you? Former is not the average, and latter is just wrong, so I wouldn't like to consider those cases. I think that average players doing Gold should need consumables to comfortably succeed, but yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, uh, my opinion, man. Medi-gel and rockets are also not absolutely necessary and are finite, but showing without them is just wrong. I think about consumables the same way, that is why I think test with consumables are actually more realistic than without them.

Bioware developed itself in a corner a bit here. New powerful weapons are straight out buff for weaponmasters, but biotics need them too, since their powers do not get stronger with new expansion. Maybe there should be like weapon mods or items equippable in weapon slots, that affect the strength of powers, so weapons wouldn't make weapon users OP but power users just viable at the same time? It is not a good situation when you try to balance weapon users and at the same time you nerf biotics/technicians for no good reason.

I'd be okay with new power buff mods but only if they would add a second permanent gear slot.

[joker_jack]

After a while civility just doesn't get a point across as well as a good old fashion meme.

[RonnyB]

Ashen Earth wrote...


I would say that a gun is "OP" when it can trivialize high difficulties for unskilled players, as the pre-nerf Krysae did on Infiltrators. So far, I haven't really seen that with the Piranha.

That's probably because you have to get close and expose yourself for a while to get good damage and unskilled players will always tend to drop like a sack of bricks in those situations. Seems like that was the thought behind the balance of the weapon and it reflects what I've seen in my games personally.