1320 réponses à ce sujet

[ryoldschool]

I am amazed at the effort that OP has expended at trying to get this gun nerfed. Wow, just wow.

[Mysteryman2000]

death_for_sale wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

its THAT guy wrote...

The funny thing is that, out of all the DLC weapons, the Typhoon actually does the most dps (on the right class) out of all three weapons. Thank god the nerfers haven't come for that gun yet...

They already nerfed the typhoon didn't you check the balance update lol?

Removing the capability for a light machine gun to penetrate walls at the same level as the Javelin is hardly a nerf. It is still the only AR with innate penetration.

Good now stop Q.Q.  I don't think I have ever held a light machine gun that doesn't go through walls in real life.

[Major Durza]

death_for_sale wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

bogsters23 wrote...

why nerf a gun which other classes can have an option to use. it works best only on 3 classes and i tried it on my fury but it is inaccurate at medium range i'd rather use my talon and rely more on my powers. in order for the game to be really balanced is if there is only one class and one weapon we can all use. now that Bioware enabled stomping on gold and platinum we need better weapons in case some of the team members get executed. if you do not like the gun and it makes it too easy for you then do not use it. do not ruin the fun for everyone else. finally we got an auto shotgun that can killl stuff you want to nert it and make it suck like most of the guns in this game.

It works as a claymore substitute on all shotgun infils, it works quite well on all soldiers and most sentinels, and it is still just slightly OP on casters classes such as engineers/adepts/vanguards.

The anti-balance people keep saying it is only OP on 3 classes, when in fact they should say it is very OP on around half of the classes in the game.

I see you're still stacking AP ammo, and shotgun rails. (realistically speaking, what Demolisher uses a shotgun amp over grenade capacity...?)

What you've done is essentially the same as if I were to claim "The Revenant is OP, because it's good on every class including casters" then proceeded to stack weapon damage bonuses to showcase it's power, and Cyclonic Modulators to turn the otherwise squishy caster who wouldn't be able to use the weapon in it's effective range into a walking tank, like your Demolisher at 1k + shields.

I also found it interesting that you omitted waves 4-10. What you've proven, is that the Piranha with AP ammo, and shotgun rails is good against Cerberus grunts, and Atlases. Concluding that it is OP on all caster classes by posting a video of it performing well with one (albeit not a traditional "caster" as it has much more shields, and neither of it's powers are considered tech or biotic) on the smallest map against one faction does not mean the weapon is OP. More testing is needed. Different enemies, different classes, different maps.

What I showed is that it is good against Atlases, and every other Cerberus troop (except Phantoms bcause I ended on wave 3). The demolisher also has the same shields/health as the Asari Justicar, starting with a base 600/500. Other than Drell and Geth, every other caster class gets 500/500 and anyone who plays Gold+ can tell you that 100pts is literally no difference in practice. I didn't need to continue the video past wave 3 because I showed a basic range of troopers, mid tier, and a boss, plus I wanted to hurry and finish it so I could upload and go to sleep.

I took no passive damage boosts for the class, only used a couple of grenades on Nemesis mobs, and used the lowest consumables I had. You get a solitary 15% damage boost from the Shotgun V permanent gear, could I have used grenades, yes. I don't think 15% is going to skew the results in the end run.

If you would like to do additional testing and record it, I welcome you to do so amongst a range of classes, enemies, and maps. I used the demolisher simply because I had it higher than my other caster classes at the time. I know we are not going to agree on my methods, but I have done a reasonable test in my opinion.

You're a skilled player, no?  You've said you play Platinum and can solo Gold, correct?  So how is putting this gun in your hands a reasonable test?  A reasonable test means showing how well the AVERAGE player performs with this weapon.  You wouldn't give a basketball to Lebron James and have him take shots for 10 minutes, calculate his shot percentage, see that it's quite high, and then claim basketball is an easy game because of it, correct?

Remember, you're calling for across-the-board nerfs for this weapon.  So any changes will effect everyone that uses this weapon.  It's unreasonable to assume the gun is powerful and easy for everyone to use, when you're really just basing this assertion on how good YOU are at using it.

Perhaps there is a misunderstanding in the thread title or the way I am coming across. I do not think the weapon needs an across the board 'nerf'. I think it needs a small nerf to either dps (return to original), rof, clip size, or increase the weight. Some other options have been mentioned that seem reasonable as well, such as lowering the amount of damage it does to either sheilds or armor, or removing the bonus from accuracy skills towards pellet spread.

Sorry if it seemed that I wanted 'ALL' of these things done at once.

I'm afraid the Piranha is not as good against Phantoms as other shotguns.  The GPS and Reegar in particular outclass the Piranha in phantom-killing.
I would not be against returning the Piranha to launch damage, nor would I be opposed to making it no longer benefit from accuracy bonuses.  Those two We can agree on.
Repeat I think we can both agree that we can change its damage back to launch, and/or make shotguns no longer benefit from accuracy bonuses.
As a matter of fact, if either one of those or both of them were implemented, then I think we would both be happy.

No weight change, that would hurt the wrong classes.

Your tests are still flawed; granted your first two were much more than your last.

I will post a test with a Vanguard, once I get FRAPS to work correctly (Chopping up my vids too small) and I need to refresh on consumables.

As for wanting things done all at once... maybe because I was debating at 1:00AM, but it seemed that way at the time.

[its THAT guy]

death_for_sale wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

its THAT guy wrote...

The funny thing is that, out of all the DLC weapons, the Typhoon actually does the most dps (on the right class) out of all three weapons. Thank god the nerfers haven't come for that gun yet...

They already nerfed the typhoon didn't you check the balance update lol?

Removing the capability for a light machine gun to penetrate walls at the same level as the Javelin is hardly a nerf. It is still the only AR with innate penetration.

Trust me, it's gonna be getting a RoF nerf, damage, or armor penetration nerf at some point, or a combination of all 3. Right after the piranha bites the dust, the Typhoon will follow.

[Ashen One]

Mysteryman2000 wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

its THAT guy wrote...

The funny thing is that, out of all the DLC weapons, the Typhoon actually does the most dps (on the right class) out of all three weapons. Thank god the nerfers haven't come for that gun yet...

They already nerfed the typhoon didn't you check the balance update lol?

Removing the capability for a light machine gun to penetrate walls at the same level as the Javelin is hardly a nerf. It is still the only AR with innate penetration.

Good now stop Q.Q.  I don't think I have ever held a light machine gun that doesn't go through walls in real life.

I don't think I've ever held a sniper rifle that can be fired from the hip in real life.

[Major Durza]

Mysteryman2000 wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

its THAT guy wrote...

The funny thing is that, out of all the DLC weapons, the Typhoon actually does the most dps (on the right class) out of all three weapons. Thank god the nerfers haven't come for that gun yet...

They already nerfed the typhoon didn't you check the balance update lol?

Removing the capability for a light machine gun to penetrate walls at the same level as the Javelin is hardly a nerf. It is still the only AR with innate penetration.

Good now stop Q.Q.  I don't think I have ever held a light machine gun that doesn't go through walls in real life.

The Typhoon nerf was actually not that bad.  It melts bosses, no real reason it should have the penetration of a Javelin.  I think that was a "Woops, we did this wrong!" much like the Harrier nerf shortly after Rebellion was released.
The Typhoon is fine as-is.  It kills bosses well, as long as mooks are not shooting you, flanking you, or tossing grenades at you.

[Lambda_00]

death_for_sale wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

its THAT guy wrote...

The funny thing is that, out of all the DLC weapons, the Typhoon actually does the most dps (on the right class) out of all three weapons. Thank god the nerfers haven't come for that gun yet...

They already nerfed the typhoon didn't you check the balance update lol?

Removing the capability for a light machine gun to penetrate walls at the same level as the Javelin is hardly a nerf. It is still the only AR with innate penetration.

I'd rather they made the majority of the other AR's at least somewhat useful on platinum first.
Good Lord the Vindicator is terrible there (Even +25% AR Boost, Extended Barrel V, Clip Size V, AP Ammo IV, +30% Devastator Mode Boost, +27.50 Weapon Damage Boost, and +20% Headshot Boost, it was horrible)

...You know it's going to hurt when you hit a brute with two whole clips and it only removes 2-3 bars of the Brute's Armor (hitting the exposed parts too)  =(

Modifié par Lambda_00, 26 juillet 2012 - 07:49 .

[Rokayt]

its THAT guy wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

its THAT guy wrote...

The funny thing is that, out of all the DLC weapons, the Typhoon actually does the most dps (on the right class) out of all three weapons. Thank god the nerfers haven't come for that gun yet...

They already nerfed the typhoon didn't you check the balance update lol?

Removing the capability for a light machine gun to penetrate walls at the same level as the Javelin is hardly a nerf. It is still the only AR with innate penetration.

Trust me, it's gonna be getting a RoF nerf, damage, or armor penetration nerf at some point, or a combination of all 3. Right after the piranha bites the dust, the Typhoon will follow.

The Typhoon is the heavest weapon in the game.

It has 650 RPM

It does, what? 60 damage per shot at level 1.

Its a glorified Tempest with recoil systems and a high veloicty barrel.

[Major Durza]

Ashen Earth wrote...

Mysteryman2000 wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

its THAT guy wrote...

The funny thing is that, out of all the DLC weapons, the Typhoon actually does the most dps (on the right class) out of all three weapons. Thank god the nerfers haven't come for that gun yet...

They already nerfed the typhoon didn't you check the balance update lol?

Removing the capability for a light machine gun to penetrate walls at the same level as the Javelin is hardly a nerf. It is still the only AR with innate penetration.

Good now stop Q.Q.  I don't think I have ever held a light machine gun that doesn't go through walls in real life.

I don't think I've ever held a sniper rifle that can be fired from the hip in real life.

Who said it can't fire through walls anymore?  It doesn't fire through really thick walls anymore, but it still has some good penetrator.  Want MOAR, go with AP mod.

[capn233]

death_for_sale wrote...

Removing the capability for a light machine gun to penetrate walls at the same level as the Javelin is hardly a nerf. It is still the only AR with innate penetration.

And the only gun with armor piercing (not counting "projectile" guns like Graal or GPS).

[Mysteryman2000]

Major Durza wrote...

Mysteryman2000 wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

its THAT guy wrote...

The funny thing is that, out of all the DLC weapons, the Typhoon actually does the most dps (on the right class) out of all three weapons. Thank god the nerfers haven't come for that gun yet...

They already nerfed the typhoon didn't you check the balance update lol?

Removing the capability for a light machine gun to penetrate walls at the same level as the Javelin is hardly a nerf. It is still the only AR with innate penetration.

Good now stop Q.Q.  I don't think I have ever held a light machine gun that doesn't go through walls in real life.

The Typhoon nerf was actually not that bad.  It melts bosses, no real reason it should have the penetration of a Javelin.  I think that was a "Woops, we did this wrong!" much like the Harrier nerf shortly after Rebellion was released.
The Typhoon is fine as-is.  It kills bosses well, as long as mooks are not shooting you, flanking you, or tossing grenades at you.

I used it a few times and it is not bad.  The nerf was not bad either.  But this is the future and it is a light machine gun.  And light machine guns right now can blast through a wall, why can't a light machine gun penetrate in the future?  It is fine just as it is, it is also ultra rare.

[Ashen One]

Lambda_00 wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

its THAT guy wrote...

The funny thing is that, out of all the DLC weapons, the Typhoon actually does the most dps (on the right class) out of all three weapons. Thank god the nerfers haven't come for that gun yet...

They already nerfed the typhoon didn't you check the balance update lol?

Removing the capability for a light machine gun to penetrate walls at the same level as the Javelin is hardly a nerf. It is still the only AR with innate penetration.

I'd rather they made the majority of the other AR's at least somewhat useful on platinum first.
Good Lord the Vindicator is terrible there (Even +25% AR Boost, AP Ammo, +30% Devastator Mode Boost, +27.50 Weapon Damage Boost, and +20% Headshot Boost, it was horrible)

Well the majority of weapons are horrible on Platinum, because Platinum is basically a boss rush mode, and for the most part, it's the heavier weapons that are meant to kill bosses. The Vindicator is fine on Gold vs Geth, and Cerberus. (Reapers if you use AP/Warp, but not great)

Modifié par Ashen Earth, 26 juillet 2012 - 07:51 .

[Mysteryman2000]

Meh, I still say it is a weapon made for platinum. If the weapon was nerfed, you might as well use a different shotgun, because soon every shotgun will be exactly the same if this keep on going. Hmm, let me see here I have Claymore and the Piranha and Katana, hmm recent nerfs it doesn't matter what I pick they all do the same damage, might as well go for a little speed *picks up katana*.

[Major Durza]

By the way, I just used it against a Brute in Gold. Used Cryo Blast on it for full debuff, at close range on Giant. Full clip, 4 bars of armor down. Not too impressive. I was using a smart choke and heavy barrel, no AP ammo mods and no shotgun buffs (was using Structural Ergonomics for cooldown) So it is not as OP as you seem to think, but returning the gun to launch damage will not kill it. It is a good comprimise.

[GroverA125]

Ashen Earth wrote...

I don't think I've ever held a sniper rifle that can be fired from the hip in real life.

"Fired from the hip" is a strong term that's inaccurate to what everyone seems to think. In Mass Effect, you don't technically fire from the hip, you simply half-aim, firing from the position you would normally fire, except without using sights. If you will, your shoulder is on the stock, but you aren't looking down your scope. That's what soldiers usually do, as it keeps you in a position where your weapon is prepared to fire, but allows for better target acquisition (as you don't need to be looking through your sights), works well for sweeping rooms, where you won't see much through your sight. You are correct though, you probably wouldn't be on the winning side firing a rifle from an unsupported position a la action movie star.

But to the actual topic, shooting "from the hip" with a sniper isn't much of a feat in the case of ME3. And I would personally have given the Typhoon 50cm of piercing. It deserves a good number, I suppose.

[BoomDynamite]

Rokayt wrote...

its THAT guy wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

its THAT guy wrote...

The funny thing is that, out of all the DLC weapons, the Typhoon actually does the most dps (on the right class) out of all three weapons. Thank god the nerfers haven't come for that gun yet...

They already nerfed the typhoon didn't you check the balance update lol?

Removing the capability for a light machine gun to penetrate walls at the same level as the Javelin is hardly a nerf. It is still the only AR with innate penetration.

Trust me, it's gonna be getting a RoF nerf, damage, or armor penetration nerf at some point, or a combination of all 3. Right after the piranha bites the dust, the Typhoon will follow.

The Typhoon is the heavest weapon in the game.

It has 650 RPM

It does, what? 60 damage per shot at level 1.

Its a glorified Tempest with recoil systems and a high veloicty barrel.

Tied for second heaviest in the game.

650 RoF, but takes around a second to achieve.

44.4 DMG per shot at I, but reaches 88.8 after 2.5 seconds on contiul fire.

40% DR, but only when in cover.

.25 meters penetration.

I'm just stating the facts. I think it's balanced, despite if these facts seem amazing on paper. It has unpredictable recoil.

[Ashen One]

death_for_sale wrote...


1. Opinion

No, you omitted more than half of a full game and the most dangerous Cerberus units. (seeing as you have to get in melee range to be effective with the weapon, and that doesn't ever end will when faced with CQC enemy units like Phantoms) You showed the weapon on one map, with one "caster" against 4 units from one faction. You then conclude that the gun is OP on all "casters" presumably against all factions on all maps.

There is something very wrong with that line of thought

death_for_sale wrote...
2. I was playing solo, which means everyone is aiming at me. In a group setting, I would not have used the Cyclonic modulator, but then you would have said my test was flawed because other people were shooting at the mobs.

 

So would you like to amend your argument to "the gun is OP if you manage to flank with it, and have 1.5k + shields to soak up damage while you try to rush enemies with it?

That doesn't make a gun OP. The biggest complaint about the PPR for example, is the charge up time, and how long it takes to reach max potential. Sure, I can empty entire clips into enemies that are not targeting me, or if I have high shielding for massive sustained damage, but the gun is hardly OP.

death_for_sale wrote...
The Phantom is hardly the most dangerous Cerberus unit and I showed every other unit except a combat engineer. I have also already covered the fact that you are basically quibbling over a 100 point shield difference. If I used an Asari Adept, with the same settings, they would have 100 fewer shields.

The majority of BSN seems to disagree. A Phantom could end your solo run in seconds, because it can sync kill you in CQC which is where you would need to be to make the weapon effective. Again, another weakness of the gun people are always quick to overlook when crying for a nerf.

death_for_sale wrote...
3. I have shown numbers, pictures, videos, and have been responsive to almost all requests. You on the other hand have done nothing but the equivalent of 'nuh-uh, you're wrong'. Prove me wrong, do your own tests and show the results, unless you are scared that I might be right. Don't use grade school tactics to try to prove me wrong.

Your videos are flawed, the DPS calculations are not even your own and they fail to take into account missed pellets (which is pretty hilarious, given the pellet spread on the weapon). As I said, you're the one claiming the gun is OP, yet cannot provide anything of value to support your claim. The overwhelming majority in this thread seems to disagree with you, so the burden of proof is on you.

Posting my own video to show the weapon is not "OP" is not only impossible, (I don't have a capture card) but would not help my argument, as I am an above average player that can do exceptionally well with any class, and any weapon. I regularly take classes/weapons people complain are bad into Gold, and dominate with them.

Modifié par Ashen Earth, 26 juillet 2012 - 08:22 .

[pmi0126]

I don't think we're actually shooting "from the hip" in this game but more firing over the sights. When you physically hit the aim button, I would equate that to closing your non-shooting eye.

And being on the subject of the future's weapon mechanics, why the hell are we still using single shot weapons as sniper rifles when nearly every sniper rifle in our arsenal has a magazine in 2012?

Point being, this is video game....not reality. Several things are the way they are simply to give the game balance or everyone would be a sniper.

I'm pretty sure bw decides who & what gets nerfed & when. I really don't think they consult these forums as the basis for balance anyways. 9/10 I'd bet they're looking at who is using what during successful clears of the higher difficulties.

I'm not saying don't state your opinion either. Free country & all that but Christ in Heaven.....name calling & the rest of that classless **** makes very little sense when you consider your passion is for nothing. End of the day, bw will Nerf when it sees X% of successful clears have 2 or more piranhas in the party.

[WandererRTF]

pmi0126 wrote...

I don't think we're actually shooting "from the hip" in this game but more firing over the sights. When you physically hit the aim button, I would equate that to closing your non-shooting eye.

And being on the subject of the future's weapon mechanics, why the hell are we still using single shot weapons as sniper rifles when nearly every sniper rifle in our arsenal has a magazine in 2012?

Point being, this is video game....not reality. Several things are the way they are simply to give the game balance or everyone would be a sniper.

I'm pretty sure bw decides who & what gets nerfed & when. I really don't think they consult these forums as the basis for balance anyways. 9/10 I'd bet they're looking at who is using what during successful clears of the higher difficulties.

I'm not saying don't state your opinion either. Free country & all that but Christ in Heaven.....name calling & the rest of that classless **** makes very little sense when you consider your passion is for nothing. End of the day, bw will Nerf when it sees X% of successful clears have 2 or more piranhas in the party.

Pretty much this. I just hope if and when they do so that they would rather nerf a single weapon or class - or combo thereoff - instead of buffing the enemies yet again.

[Ziegrif]

By Karloses huge squishy quads 44 FRIGGING PAGES?!
Op has some brass balls I'll give him that.

[leiruc]

leave it alone. some of us dont sit behind cover all day and shoot. use it while escorting and it recoils like crazy.cant even land all 8 shots while running around having to go reload. its a trade off.

[RamsenC]

Won't somebody please think of the Vanguards!?