1320 réponses à ce sujet

[GroverA125]

Ashen Earth wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

Your gameplay video would lead me to believe otherwise, seeing as you had to buff your shields to over 1500 points, and still managed to die multiple times against Cerberus grunts, on the smallest map, where the weapon shines.

You again? Go troll Air Quote's thread, he wants to nerf a bunch of classes instead of just a weapon.

I'm not trolling, I'm introducing some much needed logic, and common sense into this abomination of a thread.

And rightly so, this is a breeding ground of both people who are well and truly lost as people who can see what's balanced and what isn't, and also people who seem to simply give short answers with no real contribution other than yes or no.

And again, Death seems to not fully understand the definition of trolling. If, that is, he truly thinks that you, myself, and others are doing so by criticizing his testing methods and logic.

PS (directed at OP): If Air Quotes is suggesting softening up the classes you are using as leverage in your argument (most notably the Destroyer, Turian Soldier and Geth Infiltrator), I agree completely. As I said previously in a post you lacked the care to read, I mentioned that the playing field is too far apart, and lessening this effect is a perfectly sensical approach to game balance.

Modifié par GroverA125, 28 juillet 2012 - 10:22 .

[Walhorin]

Don't know what is so good about this weapon... I tried it on my krogan vanguard, and went back to my claymore.

Maybe once I get version x it might be okish; but on the vanguard, you know the dude going into melee range, it blew.

[Rokayt]

Would anyone cry If this thing weighed .2 more, or 1.1 as opposed to the wraiths .9?

If someone made a fuss over such a tiny adjustment, I would be amazed.

[GroverA125]

Walhorin wrote...

Don't know what is so good about this weapon... I tried it on my krogan vanguard, and went back to my claymore.

Maybe once I get version x it might be okish; but on the vanguard, you know the dude going into melee range, it blew.

If you're using a level 1 Pirahna, simply attach a +20% damage modifier to the default version, and a low level power recharge speed mod, that's pretty much how it works at level 10.

Edit: @above poster: I know myself and a couple of others would. As a weapon designed for power users and lightweight characters, making it heavier kind of removes it from the niche it was designed for, much like dropping the BWs shots to that of a Widow and changing the damage to 1000.

Modifié par GroverA125, 28 juillet 2012 - 10:28 .

[Walhorin]

then really nerfing this weapon is useless since I wouldn't even use it at X level...

[BLY78NOR]

Walhorin wrote...

Don't know what is so good about this weapon... I tried it on my krogan vanguard, and went back to my claymore.

Maybe once I get version x it might be okish; but on the vanguard, you know the dude going into melee range, it blew.

It's not that good at 10 either

On destroyer with devestator mode on and set up for ROF, AP3 or 4 ammo and the right mods it can be really good but that alone is not a good reason to whine for nerfs.

Personally i wouldn't even bother with it on any other class, weak damage per shot, horrible range, low rof. If you are close enough to spray a clip at a boss you're gonna die before you finish, if you're not close then you're really only tickling it 

[Black Phantom]

[quote]death_for_sale wrote...

[quote]TeamLexana wrote...

[quote]death_for_sale wrote...

[quote]Ashen Earth wrote...

[quote]death_for_sale wrote...

[quote]Explosaction wrote...

[quote]death_for_sale wrote...

[quote]jamesaka11710 wrote...

So THE only reason this gun does ridiculous damage, is to use gear and weapon specialist classes.

Lol, nerf threads have no logic.[/quote]

Actually I've shown that it is just more than specialist classes and gear is there for a reason. If the gear is making weapons OP, would you agree to a removal of all gear mods to make things more balanced?

[/quote]

Why do you want the nerf? If you had Pirahna X I'm pretty sure you want the thing to do More DPS and stuff. Plus if others had it and they get you through Plat and gold surely that's a good thing. The only thing that should be nerfed is the damn enemy's at least. 

[/quote]

I have it at X, that is not the point. The point is that using the weapon removes challenge from the game.
[/quote]

Your gameplay video would lead me to believe otherwise, seeing as you had to buff your shields to over 1500 points, and still managed to die multiple times against Cerberus grunts, on the smallest map, where the weapon shines.

[/quote]

You again? Go troll Air Quote's thread, he wants to nerf a bunch of classes instead of just a weapon.

[/quote]

He has a fair point.[/quote]

It's a point that I explained to him, but he likes to ignore 99% of it to point out something sensational. I used the extra shields because it was solo, also because I was doing it on a level 17 Demolisher since I had recently promoted my other 'caster' classes, and finally because I was trying to illustrate the weapon damage instead of using my grenades.[/quote]

So by your own logic, if I post a solo video of myself fighting Cerberus up to wave 3 using a Cerberus Harrier with 1.5k+  shields on a caster class, AP ammo II, and a few AR rail amps, I can argue that the gun is OP, and expect to be taken seriously? If so, video is incoming

[quote]death_for_sale wrote...
If I had been using the class as I would have in a match or a normal solo run, I would have been using my grenades and I wouldn't have died.[/quote]

It wouldn't help your flawed argument that the gun is OP on all casters, because the Demolisher is not representative of the average caster. In addition to having higher shields than most, she can also carry 10+ grenades with grenade gear. All you would manage to prove is that the gun has good synergy with Arc Grenade stun, which would allow you to get in close.

[quote]death_for_sale wrote...
I knew however that any extra power I used would be thrown in my face by him and his little clique that came here and started spamming pyramid threads as an example of why the gun 'isn't ' OP.[/quote]

Ah yes, rash generalizations and assumptions. Those things people make when they can't address specific points made by specific people.

[quote]death_for_sale wrote...
So, yeah, I died a couple of times. I also showed what the gun could do to mid level mooks and an Atlas on Gold, on a caster with no weapon passives. He conveniently ignores that part.

[/quote]

As conveniently as you ignored almost all of the other classes in the game, the majority of the maps, 2 of the factions, and the most dangerous enemies/waves of the faction you chose to test on.

[GroverA125]

death_for_sale wrote...
It's a point that I explained to him, but he likes to ignore 99% of it to point out something sensational. I used the extra shields because it was solo, also because I was doing it on a level 17 Demolisher since I had recently promoted my other 'caster' classes, and finally because I was trying to illustrate the weapon damage instead of using my grenades.

If I had been using the class as I would have in a match or a normal solo run, I would have been using my grenades and I wouldn't have died. I knew however that any extra power I used would be thrown in my face by him and his little clique that came here and started spamming pyramid threads as an example of why the gun 'isn't ' OP. So, yeah, I died a couple of times. I also showed what the gun could do to mid level mooks and an Atlas on Gold, on a caster with no weapon passives. He conveniently ignores that part.

Seriously? No, seriously?

The high-power, low accuracy shotgun is effective against a 20-foot tall armored tank that it is near impossible to miss? That's been your point this whole time?

I could laugh until my tears turn to blood from that. That's bloody well obvious. What will you be raising as a point next? That the Particle Rifle and Geth SMG work well when you point it at a target for a sustained period?

Alright, you know what? I'll humor you for now. Tell me, the atlas is about 20 feet tall and 8 or so feet wide, correct? Now, can you give me a rough measurement of the Banshees stature? Or that of a phantom, or a Ravager? Or how about a turret?

You are testing it at mid-range against a massive target and saying that it's OP because it does so much damage to that one target, have you accounted for the fact that all but one, maybe two other bosses are about half the size of the target? As such, you can bet that a good number of those pellets will be flying away from your target, and taking a significant portion of your damage with it.

In short: We acknowledge that you've tested it against an Atlas, but because it's a stupid-ass experiment, we've elected to ignore it.

[Merchant2006]

WeAreLegion- wrote...

[GroverA125]

death_for_sale wrote...
You are trolling because you point out one or two things, conveniently ignoring other items you don't want to discuss. I try explaining what you skipped over and you dismiss it. You are not interested in an honest discussion, you just want to nitpick things that have no relation to the issue. I used the weapon on a class that did not have weapon buffs and tried to avoid using that classes powers, you and he point out that I boosted my shields. I explain why, then you say that it was due to gear mods that I was able to take down things like I did.

Additionally the Piranha is OP on more than just those 3 classes. It is OP on any shotgun Infiltrator. It is OP on the Human Soldier. You can make a case that it is OP on any weapon based class with buffs and mods to damage. Do you then remove the capability to do good damage with weapons from the Weapon classes? Do they get to have caster powers to replace what they are losing?

Well then, how about we progress this forwards a few stages then? List all of the points you have made that I have ignored, and let us see if I have not answered them, or have not bothered because the answer is too obvious.

And as for my note on lessening the damage/bonuses of weapon classes, we've discussed this more than once in the thread. You can't balance something on both the weapon classes AND on other classes, the gap is currently too far to make any changes to one insignificant to the other.

Modifié par GroverA125, 28 juillet 2012 - 10:48 .

[Ben Richards]

death_for_sale wrote...

Explosaction wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

jamesaka11710 wrote...

So THE only reason this gun does ridiculous damage, is to use gear and weapon specialist classes.

Lol, nerf threads have no logic.

Actually I've shown that it is just more than specialist classes and gear is there for a reason. If the gear is making weapons OP, would you agree to a removal of all gear mods to make things more balanced?

Why do you want the nerf? If you had Pirahna X I'm pretty sure you want the thing to do More DPS and stuff. Plus if others had it and they get you through Plat and gold surely that's a good thing. The only thing that should be nerfed is the damn enemy's at least. 

I have it at X, that is not the point. The point is that using the weapon removes challenge from the game. Why play the game at all if it is not challenging? If I only wanted to play to have no challenge and get carried through matches, I would have bought a console and hung out with missile glitchers before that was fixed.

The game doesn't challenge you in a reasonable way though. In Platinum its just mass enemy spam with absurd wave compositions. You tell me what the most effective way to deal with 2 Banshees supported by Phantoms, Geth Primes, Hunters, Brutes, and Ravagers is on a shoebox map? If that's the way ME3 wants to challenge me, then I'll spec a high DPS character with a high DPS gun and just kill everything that is thrown in my direction as quickly as possible, removing one high-threat enemy after another.

I agree that the gun is slightly overpowered, but if that's the best ME3 can do to challenge me, I don't feel bad in the slightest about using a Piranha X/AP Ammo/Shotgun Rail Amp with my Geth Infiltrator.

[capn233]

50 pages and the Piranha is still imbalanced.

[niripas]

I'm sorry. If anyone can say that Piranha is OP. It sucks big time. If you put some AP mod and use it on class that has accuracy boost - then it's OK. Hitting Atlas from 20m? I can do this with my armored boot as well. I tried this PoC and I have it on my Destroyer (ONLY destroyer) because I cannot have typhoon and Harrier at the same time (yep, finally BW did a proper AR, but shhh). I had it on my Shadow, but my oh my - I couldn't play on Unknown/Unknown with it and without AP ammo (I had to sacrifice ability to kill Guardians (shredder) or Ravagers (smart choke))- so switched to Talon which CAN hit barn from 30m. The problem is - almost all crappy guns start to be good when used with one particular character/ability and then they go to very good level with ammo mods and rails. Naked Piranha just sucks.



Oh, and if the game is not challenging for someone - solution is VERY simple. Change the game. There are lots of games with 4 players co-op (ie. Binary Domain and Syndicate - with the second one very similar to ME3 (they even have Guardians  )). For me and 99% of players the game IS challenging. Or if you don't want to change the game - get some random, low level team and carry them (with revivals, not solo).

Modifié par niripas, 28 juillet 2012 - 10:58 .

[Tajah Silver-Sparke]

 Leave the Piranha alone. For god's sake, why does everything need to be nerfed? Not everyone is a Platnium player who can solo it with their eyes closed.  Give us regular players something that we can use and feel good about. :pinched:

[-Forever-]

If anything increase the weight.

Making it an ultra-rare would also be a good nerf. Just don't ruin the RoF or DPS.

Modifié par -Forever-, 28 juillet 2012 - 11:00 .

[ColonelHiroki]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!You people just nerf the Krysae sniper rifle!!!!!!Don't do that with this gun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Taalar]

I agree with most of the posters here. If you don't like it, don't use it. I like it for now.. until my hurricane gets a few more levels, (at 1) and it is fun to use. Why do people like to try and nerf the weapons other people use? its not PVP. Its amazing to me how many people spend so much time trying to nerf weapons instead of playing.

Modifié par Taalar, 28 juillet 2012 - 11:09 .

[Ranger3bn]

Ok, now things are starting get out of hand on this forum with all the nerf this and nerf that. It is almost as if some people want the game to be tailored to their playing style: I use only this weapon, or this character and every other weapon or character that I choose to NOT use should be under powered so that my choice of weapon/ character can dominate the game play.

Bioware gave us the ability to voice our opinions however, this should not be confused with: I want you to make Mass Effect 3 specifically for my playing style or choice. There is a reason why you are not in the game development business so, try and remember that.

Enough is enough either start making you own video games or get off the forums.

[GroverA125]

death_for_sale wrote...

GroverA125 wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...
It's a point that I explained to him, but he likes to ignore 99% of it to point out something sensational. I used the extra shields because it was solo, also because I was doing it on a level 17 Demolisher since I had recently promoted my other 'caster' classes, and finally because I was trying to illustrate the weapon damage instead of using my grenades.

If I had been using the class as I would have in a match or a normal solo run, I would have been using my grenades and I wouldn't have died. I knew however that any extra power I used would be thrown in my face by him and his little clique that came here and started spamming pyramid threads as an example of why the gun 'isn't ' OP. So, yeah, I died a couple of times. I also showed what the gun could do to mid level mooks and an Atlas on Gold, on a caster with no weapon passives. He conveniently ignores that part.

Seriously? No, seriously?

The high-power, low accuracy shotgun is effective against a 20-foot tall armored tank that it is near impossible to miss? That's been your point this whole time?

I could laugh until my tears turn to blood from that. That's bloody well obvious. What will you be raising as a point next? That the Particle Rifle and Geth SMG work well when you point it at a target for a sustained period?

Alright, you know what? I'll humor you for now. Tell me, the atlas is about 20 feet tall and 8 or so feet wide, correct? Now, can you give me a rough measurement of the Banshees stature? Or that of a phantom, or a Ravager? Or how about a turret?

You are testing it at mid-range against a massive target and saying that it's OP because it does so much damage to that one target, have you accounted for the fact that all but one, maybe two other bosses are about half the size of the target? As such, you can bet that a good number of those pellets will be flying away from your target, and taking a significant portion of your damage with it.

In short: We acknowledge that you've tested it against an Atlas, but because it's a stupid-ass experiment, we've elected to ignore it.

Of course you ignored it, because it suits your argument to ignore it. Why don't you try the weapon on other targets and video it to prove me wrong?

Even if it didn't suit my argument, it's a completely unsubstantial piece of evidence. It's like saying that Reegar has low damage to armor, but because it gets triple damage to shields, it's the best weapon in the game at boss-killing. If Ashen were to raise a similar point in defense of the Pirahna, I would say that the test is wrong and that a more accurate one should be used. Fortunately for my side, Ashen is using reliable information, so I don't have to jump that.

As much as I'd love to show you how weak it is against non-atlas targets, I lack a means of recording. I'm sure that someone else however would love to do such a test though. I have tested it thoroughly on Platinum matches fully modded and with proper equipment on an N7 Destroyer, and as I have said many times, even with accuracy buffs, pellets still miss the target consistently when fired at max RoF or even close to max RoF. Ultimately, I have abandoned the Pirahna completely and decided that the Revenant is a better weapon for the range, then using the shorter range Reegar as my shotgun. Not because I like the Revenant-Reegar Combo, but simply because they're the only thing to work happily together at the ranges you claim the Pirahna should be filling.

[DarthVarner]

death_for_sale wrote...

1. Can't wait to see that video.

2. You keep saying the Demolisher has higher shields than most casters, when in fact they have exactly 100 points more than some other casters. This is MINIMAL TO THE EXTREME ON GOLD + AND YOU KNOW THAT.

3. How is it a generalization? If I had used grenades to assist me in taking down enemies or stunning them to get closer, you would have used it as an example of how the grenades helped and the weapon isn't OP. Just like you did on point 2 when you said all I would prove is synergy with the grenade.

4. Yes, I should do videos for all classes, all maps, all factions, and all enemies. You can't be bothered to do a video for anything, but I should do all of those to suit you. I think not. Additionally, the point of the video was not to show how I solo or to test every single enemy. It was to show what the Piranha can do to the non-boss enemies and what it can do to "a" boss on a non-weapon based class that was not using powers.

So, let me see here.

Your answer to #1: Pretty much reveals that you're trolling. Because if not, I'll go make that Harrier vid. Should have kept the lid on this comment; it says everything we need to know.

Your answer to #2: "I concede a sub-point and conveniently ignore the real point, being arc grenade stun synergy, hoping nobody actually reads what he wrote."

Your answer to #3: This wasn't even a question, and his point was valid. Stop whining.

Your answer to #4: His point is completely valid, and the burden of proof is on you since you picked your effective example/setup.


Here are a few bare minimum tests you didn't do (all on caster classes):

Use the Piranha alone to take down a Phantom. Or even to strip its barrier. Good luck unless you can stick it on their forehead without getting a sword in the gut.

Use the Piranha alone to take down a turret, on a class like the ex-cerb vanguard.

Use the Piranha alone to take down a Geth Hunter.

Use the Piranha alone to take down a Geth Pyro.

I actually do look forward to that vid. Never expect to see it, though, at least not from you.

Modifié par DarthVarner, 28 juillet 2012 - 11:20 .