RamsenC wrote...
Smash with Wraith is the way to go. You can smash > shoot > smash > shoot without losing any cooldown time. Sneak in that 800-1000 Wraith shot between your smashes and you DPS will improve big time. You will still lose to the Piranha in pure DPS, but Smash is much better crowd control.
Excellent, I will include this. For the sake of simplicity, I will ignore the delay caused by reloading (0.54 seconds) and simply assume that it fits in the normal window (even though it doesn't). I could give an actual estimate there, but I know that it is not necessary as it doesn't affect the conclusion. Thus, you get 2/3rds of a shot in per cycle. Your cooldown is up to a minimum of 2.5625 seconds if you took the weight version (trust me, it's much better). That reduces your smash DPS to 2146 and offers you an additional 572 DPS for a total of 2718. You're
still coming in under budget compared to the Piranha, and I've been pretty generous toward the entire Smash setup (giving over-estimated biotic explosion damage
every use, ignoring reload times, offering too many targets per hit and too frequent a vulnerability ratio). It is extremely unlikely that you will even nearly meet the numbers I have proposed here.
I'd love to think that the Phoenix could deliver superior short-range DPS to a weapon-master, because that's his niche. If he can't do that, he is not worth using at all, and as you can see, he cannot do that. Power classes are, from an efficacy perspective, complete junk because of the poor weapon balancing that has gone on in the last two DLCs. The Piranha is not the only one, unfortunately.
GroverA125 wrote...
Exactly, it's the argument about spreading your DPS about. The Pirahna can probably (with precise "aiming") hit two targets for reasonable damage, and against an individual, it'll be a lot of damage, but Smash, Biotic and Electric Slashes, Shockwave, even reave, all hit more than one target. Smash specifically can wipe out somewhere close to 4 people in one swing, It's the apparent reason as to why the Stiker and Krysae do decent damage, because they hit the group for a large DPS, but an individual for low DPS.
Smash hits a maximum of 2 targets per use unless you take the radius evo, which offers 3 targets (but nobody does because you have to give up a 75% multiplicative bonus to do so). I also accounted for this in my calculations.
GroverA125 wrote...
Plus, Smashing usually is supported by a Reaver, most likely a Justicar, who could increase the power damage much like weapon damage, combined with reave, a smasher demolishes anything short of a boss unit in one shot, then both can also fire weapons inbetween biotics for some more damage on the side.
I assume you're talking about biotic explosions since Reave doesn't have any damage-taken bonus. Also accounted for this in a comically-generous way, giving more damage out of biotic explosions than you actually get and giving it for every single Smash.
If you mean the bubble, it's irrelevant as it increases damage from both sources (guns and powers) by an equal amount.
GroverA125 wrote...
I can agree that against a single unit without support from a setup class and using no weapon inbetween (a viable strategy, as it lowers the risk of getting downed), the Pirahna will definitely outmatch it. However, with a team of biotics, the smashers are dealing nearly a half over what the Pirahna's doing, but to multiple targets. The total capable DPS is through the roof.
Yae, though I accounted for this! I did not account for weapon shots in between, but I now have done so with appropriate rigor. It pains me to say that nothing of the sort will ever acount for insanity we now discuss.
nicethugbert wrote...
No, it goes to the heart of the matter, the purpose of the game. Without a purpose, anything goes, there is no direction, therefore no resolution. Without purpose, people do not know what they are doing or what they are talking about.
You assume that those who chase score are even an appreciable portion of the players here. They are not.
nicethugbert wrote...
The difficulty of the task does not in anyway reduce the superiority of it's advantage. Also, the difficulty is assumed. The fact is that some people are highly adept at math. The more professional game project would have one on staff to provide a better foundation for the game. The rest would be art, on a better foundation. Without a mathematical foundation serving a purpose, it's all just a bunch of aimless nonsense just flopping and farting about.
Again, it is not simply a matter of pure math. You must make assumptions about the relative value of offense versus defense, for example, to determine which options are valuable. I used the Phoenix becaues the roles are identical: close-range damage output.
I do think they could have done some very basic calculations that would have told them beforehand that the Krysae, Reegar, Harrier, Typhoon, and Piranha were overpowered, because they clearly throw a wrench in established balance.
niripas wrote...
Actually - try it first. In theory bumblebee cannot fly. In theory Piranha owns slash. We did a quick test - N7 Slayer biotic slash without any mods, just with gear (considered weak) and destroyer with Piranha X, barrell, smart choke and AP ammo IV, Shotgun III Rail. Platinum level Firebase White - we were just camping. Slayer score was over 30% higher at the beginning waves, destroyer started to gain at objective waves, but then when all got back to
normal, Slayer was still ahead. As the score is roughly proportional to damage, please stop saying that math proves otherwise.
And I may have occasion to outscore the combined rest of the team in Reaper Gold matches
as a Drellguard. That does not mean the Drellguard has... well, any advantages at all. Hell, I was a Fury in one match without any equips and scored 3x the score of a Destroyer with a Typhoon. Does that mean the Fury is great? No, it means the player behind the Destroyer was nooberific. You're also looking at score, which is not merely a function of damage because killing targets offers a unique bonus and kill types offer different bonuses. Your Slayer has to hit 10 targets per Slash to match the
damage output of a Destroyer. Good luck with that.
(I do think it's funny how you're arguing procamping in a balance thread. Those who agree with you attacked the OP using that as an insult, and now you're using it as genuine support for your cause. How bizarre.)
Modifié par Gamemako, 29 juillet 2012 - 05:21 .
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