102 réponses à ce sujet

[Imrahil_]

I've played through all the origins now & finished the game 4 times.  I'm currently alternating my Dwarf noble & City Elf & will finish with both of them.  I'll replay more in the future.  This game is flat out fun.

So, with that said, here's the reasons I can't give this game a 10.0 out of 10.0 & why it loses points with me.

Now, I've played BG, BG2 (& ToB), Drakensang, IWD, IWD II, original flavor Bard's Tale I-II-II (& the FPS reincarnation that sucked), most gold box SSI games, Ultima I-IV, Dragon Wars, Wasteland, Might & Magic I-IX, Buck Rogers gold box, a few of the Wizardry games, Fallout 1 & 2, Wizard's Crown, Wizards & Warriors, ... etc., others I've forgotten.  I'm by no means saying these games are better than DA, just that I've played them, fwiw.  Weirdest resume I've ever assembled.

So anyway, I'm "old-school" I guess, & maybe my criticisms can be put down to nostalgia, but here goes.  Here's what I find wrong with Dragon Age that makes me "dislike" the game, *given that I enjoy it immensely, have replayed several times & will replay several times more*.  Most of these are kind of minor on their own, but taken all together, detract from a great game experience, IMO.

Reasons why no game that has these characteristics will ever get a 10 out of 10 from me, & Dragon Age has these...

Enemy reasons:

- Dead Enemies Don't Drop All Loot - Basically, if I kill a guy obviously wearing plate mail & wielding a massive maul, I should be able to collect that plate mail & maul.  In Dragon Age, I might get a Health Poultice from him.  Games which let me loot everything the enemies were using, no matter that they may be useless & worth 2 cp, are just plain better.

- Dead Enemies Drop Silly Loot - An offshoot of the above point, if Wolves drop Health Poultices or High Dragons drop Chain Mail, I think that's silly.  Of course the High Dragon's hoard should have stuff like that, but its corpse shouldn't.  Silly.  Just... well... yeah, silly.  Why does that Spider have Heavy Chain Mail  or 31 cp on its corpse?

Party reasons:

- Party Size - 4 person party < fun than 6 person party.  It just is.  And the restriction is felt more the lower the restriction goes (Wizardry had 8-person parties & that worked).  It limits my choice, it limits my interactions, it limits how much I can trade "utility" for "fun".  In DA, I can't really see how Sten-Dog-Alistair interact without sacrificing party utility.  I can't see how Oghren-(Spoiler)-Shale interact.  I can't set up complex tactics with 4 people.  And it limits the challenges I can face because it's always, always me & <=3 other people.  This one is especially noticeable in DA since all the NPC's are (almost) always available.  Why did Sten not accompany me into the Deep Roads?  Because of party size.  He wasn't doing anything.  He roasted marshmallows at camp the whole time because of party size, not story.

- Party Levels Up At Camp - I guess this is an attempt to compensate for the above point, but it makes no sense.  Why does Sten gain 5,000 xp by sitting at camp roasting marshmallows?

- PC Can't Interject - One of my favorite things is interparty banter & party member interjections.  But in DA, the PC is mostly a bystander during banters.  I can't get involved in their conversations while we're running over bridges. 

Combat reasons:

- Auto-Resurrection - This is an obvious console crutch.  Why do my characters auto-res after combat?  There is no death for the party as long as one of us survives?  Makes no sense.  Reduces any suspense to near nothing. 

- Wounds Poorly Used - If you're going to have Wounds, have more ways to inflict them.  Have them matter.  Have them occur *during* combat.  As it is, they are only a very mild penalty for "dying".  Meaning no penalty at all as long as you have an Injury Kit of some sort.

- We Are All Half-Troll - First off, I understand that resting to regain spells is a bad system as well, in that it is annoying, but at least it has an explanation.  I can *believe* it, if I must.  But We Are All @100% 15 seconds after combat is equally bad, just on the other extreme.  What kind of superhuman Wolverines am I running with?  Arl Howe should have been back at 100% health just during his dying speech!

Gear reasons:

- Community Inventory Is Meh, But Backpacks Are Stupid - They cost more than most magical items, give me 5 spaces, and... I... I... I just can't justify this in any way, shape or form.  This is blatant consolization.  It doesn't even try to hide.  It slaps me in the face with my PlayStation even though I play this game on my PC.

- Lack Of Variation in Leather Armor & Mage Gear - You know this.  Everyone knows this.  Mentioned 1,000 1,001 times.

- Awesome Items Cost 100+ Gold - I'm gonna fold DLC items into this point as well.  There are soooo many items that should be drops from bosses, but are, instead, either given for free or cost 120 Gold from a merchant.  I can't even imagine a reason why this is better than a boss drop (or, rather, a boss's hoard drop if it makes no sense they'd be carrying it when they fight you - see above).  The Edge?  Best dagger ever for free?  Except maybe for that 120 gp dagger?  Just bad all around.

- No Activated Items - I really, really hate this.  To use Baldur's Gate as a reference, no Heroism Potions, Helm of Brilliance, Sunburst from Daystar, etc.  I'd like to see, for example, Cunning Potions one could use when encountering a high-end (useless) chest (that should've been a point - chests are useless!), temporary Coercion+1 potions or something, or Magic Resistance Potions for boss fights, or +Strength activated item for... ok, boss fights.  No equipment has an activated ability & the potions (other than health or mana) are uber-wimpy.  Rock Salve?  I don't even know what it does, which brings me to...

- I Don't Know What My Gear Does - You've heard this.  What does "increases attack speed" mean?  What are my set bonuses?   What is a "massive attack bonus for a moderate time"?

- No Spears / Flails / Hammers / Katanas / Slings / Halberds / Throwing Weapons / Scimitars / (Warrior) Staves / Shortswords / Clubs - Obviously, a game that has these > a game that doesn't, so the fact that DA doesn't have them due to animation limitations detracts.  Obviously.  I don't care how real-world realistic "we couldn't afford to create those animations" is, you gotta accept the hit.  "We couldn't program something that is just plain obviously lacking" is... ok? I guess... but you *have* to recognize that your game suffers for it.  Mightily.  Obviously. (almost used a different word - sorry)

Character customizability:

After playing through all the origins & classes, I'm not sure how my future characters might be distinct, other than Mages (& role-playing, yes, but I'm talking about gameplay)...

- Everyone Can Use Every Weapon - A mace is not the same as a sword is not the same as an axe.  Except they are in this game.  It should take different skills to wield them.  A swordmaster should not automatically be just as good with a mace.  Maul Greatsword.  Granted, they have different stats, but that's it.  Ridiculous.  "Sword" & Shield talents don't care if you have a sword, mace, or axe (or dagger) in your main hand.

- Can't Create Your Party - I love character interaction & NPC banter, but the ability to create your whole party > the lack of the ability to create your whole party.  Just saying.

Some Campaign Specific Stuff:

(Spoiler)

Generic Fights - There's like, a dozen different enemies, total.  And I fight them over and over and over and over.  And they always act the same.  If you had used Orcs/Goblins/Ogres instead of Hurlocks/Genlocks/Ogres, this would be much more obvious, I think, but just renaming the generic horde we fight over and over and over and over is just an illusion.

Stat Restricions On Gear - How much does Dragonbone weigh?!?  42 Strength?!?  Better materials should sometimes mean *lighter* weight, not heavier, although there should be some ridulously heavy armors, I guess.  The system in DA is flat out gameplay > realism.  There are Heavy Plates that provide more protection & less fatigue for less Strength than some Heavy Chain Mails with less protection & greater fatigue.  Because of what they are made of?  Just. Plain. Poorly. Designed.  Minor gripe, I guess, but if I don't put it in now, well... it's not like I'm gonna make another of these lists, right?


Whew.  With all that said, I enjoy this game a lot.  Granted this is a very large compliment-criticism-compliment sandwich (go back to the paragraph one - I started with compliments - sandwich on!), but please don't underestimate how much I enjoy this game.  I just don't love it.  8.0 out of 10.0.  But if I didn't *really* like this game, I wouldn't bother typing all this out, so take that for what it's worth.


tl;dr.  beat you to it.

Modifié par Imrahil_, 19 décembre 2009 - 11:05 .

[HajinWarrior]

Sadly, I agree with all of these statements - for well most of them.



DragonAge good game, great game even. But needs improvements - aka I would prefer going to other continents? Maybe I'm wrong but I haven't found a way.

[Erucolindo]

Imrahil_ wrote...

I've played through all the origins now & finished the game 4 times.  I'm currently alternating my Dwarf noble & City Elf & will finish with both of them.  I'll replay more in the future.  This game is flat out fun.

So, with that said, here's the reasons I can't give this game a 10.0 out of 10.0 & why it loses points with me.

Now, I've played BG, BG2 (& ToB), Drakensang, IWD, IWD II, original flavor Bard's Tale I-II-II (& the FPS reincarnation that sucked), most gold box SSI games, Ultima I-IV, Dragon Wars, Wasteland, Might & Magic I-IX, Buck Rogers gold box, a few of the Wizardry games, Fallout 1 & 2, Wizard's Crown, Wizards & Warriors, ... etc., others I've forgotten.  I'm by no means saying these games are better than DA, just that I've played them, fwiw.  Weirdest resume I've ever assembled.

So anyway, I'm "old-school" I guess, & maybe my criticisms can be put down to nostalgia, but here goes.  Here's what I find wrong with Dragon Age that makes me "dislike" the game, *given that I enjoy it immensely, have replayed several times & will replay several times more*.  Most of these are kind of minor on their own, but taken all together, detract from a great game experience, IMO.

Reasons why no game that has these characteristics will ever get a 10 out of 10 from me, & Dragon Age has these...

Enemy reasons:

- Dead Enemies Don't Drop All Loot - Basically, if I kill a guy obviously wearing plate mail & wielding a massive maul, I should be able to collect that plate mail & maul.  In Dragon Age, I might get a Health Poultice from him.  Games which let me loot everything the enemies were using, no matter that they may be useless & worth 2 cp, are just plain better.

- Dead Enemies Drop Silly Loot - An offshoot of the above point, if Wolves drop Health Poultices or High Dragons drop Chain Mail, I think that's silly.  Of course the High Dragon's hoard should have stuff like that, but its corpse shouldn't.  Silly.  Just... well... yeah, silly.  Why does that Spider have Heavy Chain Mail  or 31 cp on its corpse?

Party reasons:

- Party Size - 4 person party < fun than 6 person party.  It just is.  And the restriction is felt more the lower the restriction goes (Wizardry had 8-person parties & that worked).  It limits my choice, it limits my interactions, it limits how much I can trade "utility" for "fun".  In DA, I can't really see how Sten-Dog-Alistair interact without sacrificing party utility.  I can't see how Oghren-(Spoiler)-Shale interact.  I can't set up complex tactics with 4 people.  And it limits the challenges I can face because it's always, always me & <=3 other people.  This one is especially noticeable in DA since all the NPC's are (almost) always available.  Why did Sten not accompany me into the Deep Roads?  Because of party size.  He wasn't doing anything.  He roasted marshmallows at camp the whole time because of party size, not story.

- Party Levels Up At Camp - I guess this is an attempt to compensate for the above point, but it makes no sense.  Why does Sten gain 5,000 xp by sitting at camp roasting marshmallows?

- PC Can't Interject - One of my favorite things is interparty banter & party member interjections.  But in DA, the PC is mostly a bystander during banters.  I can't get involved in their conversations while we're running over bridges. 

Combat reasons:

- Auto-Resurrection - This is an obvious console crutch.  Why do my characters auto-res after combat?  There is no death for the party as long as one of us survives?  Makes no sense.  Reduces any suspense to near nothing. 

- Wounds Poorly Used - If you're going to have Wounds, have more ways to inflict them.  Have them matter.  Have them occur *during* combat.  As it is, they are only a very mild penalty for "dying".  Meaning no penalty at all as long as you have an Injury Kit of some sort.

- We Are All Half-Troll - First off, I understand that resting to regain spells is a bad system as well, in that it is annoying, but at least it has an explanation.  I can *believe* it, if I must.  But We Are All @100% 15 seconds after combat is equally bad, just on the other extreme.  What kind of superhuman Wolverines am I running with?  Arl Howe should have been back at 100% health just during his dying speech!

Gear reasons:

- Community Inventory Is Meh, But Backpacks Are Stupid - They cost more than most magical items, give me 5 spaces, and... I... I... I just can't justify this in any way, shape or form.  This is blatant consolization.  It doesn't even try to hide.  It slaps me in the face with my PlayStation even though I play this game on my PC.

- Lack Of Variation in Leather Armor & Mage Gear - You know this.  Everyone knows this.  Mentioned 1,000 1,001 times.

- Awesome Items Cost 100+ Gold - I'm gonna fold DLC items into this point as well.  There are soooo many items that should be drops from bosses, but are, instead, either given for free or cost 120 Gold from a merchant.  I can't even imagine a reason why this is better than a boss drop (or, rather, a boss's hoard drop if it makes no sense they'd be carrying it when they fight you - see above).  The Edge?  Best dagger ever for free?  Except maybe for that 120 gp dagger?  Just bad all around.



- I Don't Know What My Gear Does - You've heard this.  What does "increases attack speed" mean?  What are my set bonuses?   What is a "massive attack bonus for a moderate time"?

- No Spears / Flails / Hammers / Katanas / Slings / Halberds / Throwing Weapons / Scimitars / (Warrior) Staves / Shortswords / Clubs - Obviously, a game that has these > a game that doesn't, so the fact that DA doesn't have them due to animation limitations detracts.  Obviously.  I don't care how real-world realistic "we couldn't afford to create those animations" is, you gotta accept the hit.  "We couldn't program something that is just plain obviously lacking" is... ok? I guess... but you *have* to recognize that your game suffers for it.  Mightily.  Obviously. (almost used a different word - sorry)

Character customizability:

After playing through all the origins & classes, I'm not sure how my future characters might be distinct, other than Mages (& role-playing, yes, but I'm talking about gameplay)...



- Can't Create Your Party - I love character interaction & NPC banter, but the ability to create your whole party > the lack of the ability to create your whole party.  Just saying.

Some Campaign Specific Stuff:

(Spoiler)







tl;dr.  beat you to it.

That's a lot, and I had a lot to comment on, I agree with a lot of it to actually, but I had to quote it all then delete what i didn't need to remember my various points.

However, before I get into specifics, I will point out that a lot of your concerns, while valid, where done to save money. It's sad, movies and games suffer from this and are made worse cause of this, but the publishers of games want the game out asap and they want it done for as little money as possible so they get more back in profit. To save time, instead of making talents for every different weapon, they group it into two-handed and so on. Call it cheap, but I don't blame them. I would however love some Katanas:)

I agree with you 1000% percent on the looting, especially when looting orange class bosses and their hordes. Nothing irks me..nay pisses me off more then breaking my ass to kill some dragon and getting crappy loot for the effort. The spider in the deep roads comes to mind..what the hell guys. Why is she guarding three chest worth of crap. Getting xp is all well and good, but seriously. My guess though, as to why they don't (and i may be repeating someone else here, so forgive me) an issue of space..actually game memory for all those items of all those minor mobs. Not to mention that people would become bogged down with crap. (I know people who hate leaving things behind..take every little piece of crap). I would be happy if they just allowed bosses to drop everything they had and hard monsters to be guarding some good loot.

Backpacks are annoying I guess, and can be a bit pricey, especially early on, but I mean well I don't know why they don't just give up infinite inventory. Memory issues? KOTOR had infinity inventory. Well at least they don't make you walk slower when you go over a weight limit. KOTOR's system would be extremely ideal. I would like some kind of super chest at camp to store things I can't use right away or bags for crafting items..

More varied looking gear would indeed be nice, but this may go again to developement time vs cost issue. What I want to know is were Morrigan's Bra comes from. She's clearly not wearing one. Sorry, but this is an adult game, but i guess we live in America were you can hack someone to death and be covered in blood, but Maker forbib you see female nipples.

Over priced merchant gear is another thing that I agree with you on completely. By the nine hells, 145 gold for that damned Rose Dagger. Where in same Nine Hells am I suppose to have gotten that much money? I see people say pickpocketing and selling everything, but I don't get a lot of stuff that's worth more then two gold and I often need some of that stuff. It is a lot compared to most other things in the game.  Course, people often go on about how much gold they have, and I know there are methods like crafting certain potions like crazy and then selling them, but I don't think the devs intended for us to make money like that, so who did they intend for us to afford that. I"m hoping that when i get the last lvl in pick pocketing, I start getting some really valuable stuff when i'm allowed to pick orange lvl guys and gals.


It would be nice to have a larger party size then four, four does seem a bit strict. . There way of encouranging you to replay? Issues with the engine allowing for only four?  As for creating your entire party. I do hate that they made Leli a bard and Morrigan a Shapeshifter and gave them powers I never use. I've always hated the way they never make a "pure" mage, it's always half mage half healer or something.  I've heard Lel is a good archer, however for me she always ended up automatically switching to dagger and attacking at melee range, so i always give up and just let her use her daggers. I've tried telling her in tactics to be an archer, but it doesn't help. Once I even set up a condition where if the enemy was at range, use range, if enemy was in melee, use daggers. She ended up having a seisure switching between bow and daggers and back..


(Spoiler)


Well it was longer then yours, but there you go.

Modifié par Torias, 19 décembre 2009 - 11:06 .

[CJohnJones]

150-200 hours of entertainment for fifty bucks. I'd call that a 10.0



To me the awesome things cancel out the bad things (and I agree with your suggestions over all). The awesome things add up to more than 10.0 and the negatives don't take it down to a low "B."



I won't just play anything, and anything that I would play twice has to be at least a B+

[metatrans]

i disagree with the general sentiment here. the poster says he is upset that the designers favored smooth gameplay over strict realism. in my opinion gameplaying is primary, period. realism adds to immersion but it can lead to very unfun situations where you are burdened too much with minutia for the sake of realism instead of doing something thats actually fun.



furthermore, alot of the personal preferences of the OP with regards to gameplay mechanics I think are really questionable. its fine if you have a great fondness of old school style games but i do think that modernization and progress are important, if for no other reason than to expand the game's audience. the game needs to have a big audience just to justify the cost of producing it. i'd rather have the game than not have it, you know? if certain things have to be compromised for mass market appeal in order to get the game into production i'm totally fine with that.

[kraftykid114]

apparently in order to make this game a 10.0 rating with said ultra realism, you would periodically need to have your character stop and use the bathroom, actually bathe to remove the obscene amount of blood from your skin, stop 5-6 times during a trip between locations if not more to eat and rest, buy new gear virtually every stop due to abuse, re-sharped your weapons, or buy more ammo....... the list goes on the point being this game w/o its obvious technicall issues is a 10, its "Fantasy" if the OP wants reality i suggest The Sims.

[Suron]

y'know it's funny...I honestly clicked on this topic to jump on the flame-train against you....but after reading I honestly agree with pretty much all your points...which is strangely a first for these types of threads.

I am sadly disappointed with a lot of these kinds of things in this game....and I'm a HUGE BG fan...I can't count how many times I played through....and BG:ToB ending text boxes with character protraits after all was said and done telling what happened to them was the first time a game EVER brought me to the verge of tears it was so emotional...

Between the crap weapon scaling (weapon hilts/handles being as fat as the characters head)..and well most of what you mentioned...I've seriously lost a little respect for Bio's quality...it's a damn crime to dirty a game that so much time and effort was put into with this much half-assed.

Personally I think most people that don't see these glaring faults (or just don't want to admit to them) are either A) console players or Too happy that Bio finally put out a BG type game they can't find fault in it...

hell I was B for awhile myself.

[Suron]

Erucolindo wrote...

It would be nice to have a larger party size then four, four does seem a bit strict. . There way of encouranging you to replay? Issues with the engine allowing for only four?  As for creating your entire party. I do hate that they made Leli a bard and Morrigan a Shapeshifter and gave them powers I never use. I've always hated the way they never make a "pure" mage, it's always half mage half healer or something.  I've heard Lel is a good archer, however for me she always ended up automatically switching to dagger and attacking at melee range, so i always give up and just let her use her daggers. I've tried telling her in tactics to be an archer, but it doesn't help. Once I even set up a condition where if the enemy was at range, use range, if enemy was in melee, use daggers. She ended up having a seisure switching between bow and daggers and back..

open tactics..top right corner...set her to RANGED....TOP RIGHT CORNER...not the left side toggle drop-down...the TOP RIGHT that starts at "Default"...change it to RANGED...you won't have that problem.

capped for emphasis and nothing else.

[Suron]

metatrans wrote...

i disagree with the general sentiment here. the poster says he is upset that the designers favored smooth gameplay over strict realism. in my opinion gameplaying is primary, period. realism adds to immersion but it can lead to very unfun situations where you are burdened too much with minutia for the sake of realism instead of doing something thats actually fun.

furthermore, alot of the personal preferences of the OP with regards to gameplay mechanics I think are really questionable. its fine if you have a great fondness of old school style games but i do think that modernization and progress are important, if for no other reason than to expand the game's audience. the game needs to have a big audience just to justify the cost of producing it. i'd rather have the game than not have it, you know? if certain things have to be compromised for mass market appeal in order to get the game into production i'm totally fine with that.

you're an A aren't ya

[Imrahil_]

kraftykid114 wrote...

apparently in order to make this game a 10.0 rating with said ultra realism, you would periodically need to have your character stop and use the bathroom, actually bathe to remove the obscene amount of blood from your skin, stop 5-6 times during a trip between locations if not more to eat and rest, buy new gear virtually every stop due to abuse, re-sharped your weapons, or buy more ammo....... the list goes on the point being this game w/o its obvious technicall issues is a 10, its "Fantasy" if the OP wants reality i suggest The Sims.

Did I say any of that or did you imagine it?  I mean, you can scroll back up to my OP & quote me if I actually said anything remotely close to that.  Should be easy.  Let me know if I said any of that.  I'll be anxiously awaiting you quoting me saying any of that, because I'd be the first to call me out on such ridiculous statements you imagined that I said.

[Imrahil_]

Personally I think most people that don't see these glaring faults (or just don't want to admit to them) are either A) console players or Too happy that Bio finally put out a BG type game they can't find fault in it...

hell I was B for awhile myself.

To be fair, I'm a bit of a B as well.  I took me many, many playthroughs to even think about composing such a post.

[phordicus]

join the club. this game is a lot better if you can forget that games like ultima or BG ever existed. your points are still valid, but it doesn't sting as much.

[Atmosfear3]

Everything the OP mentions is true more or less, though I have to disagree on the whole loot and realism thing. Who cares if it isn't realistic that a dragon would have chainmail on it, are we to expect that each boss guards a chest in a location for no apparent reason? Also, regarding looting the equipment of your fallen enemies (i.e. guard wearing chainmail thus you loot chainmail from him), if it is logic you seek, you could say you maimed him so bad the equipment on him was too badly damaged for you to salvage.

[metatrans]

Suron wrote...


you're an A aren't ya

no, i play on PC. i'm old school myself. i've been playing PC RPGs since the 80s when my father introduced me to Zork and Moria as a child. i've played em all and PC is my platform of choice. i don't even own a current gen console. 

thanks for making assumptions though. 

despite my background i rather enjoy this genre becoming more accessible. there's still plenty of complexity and detail in Dragon Age. I'm just glad they cut out alot of stupid minutia and focused on core gameplay. 

[Denivire]

I was probably too young to remember most if not all the games you've mentioned, and it doesn't help when I'm in a small city of sports fans and anti-RPG people.

That being said, I'm an A) for Suron's categories for people who can't see the faults. I've only had problems with the Fade part in the Circle of Magi, with it's ridiculous difficulty spikes you have to know how to get past. I mean, the best RPG I've played before this was Morrowind, and before that it was Super Mario RPG on the SNES (My city sucks that bad for RPG titles).



But looking at your list, I do have to at least come to terms with a lot of it said. At some points I do agree, like the troll-like regeneration and the use of wounds, but points like "Dead Enemies don't drop all Loot", what if we say the items broke and are beyond repair? That kind of stuff happens a lot in games like Dungeons and Dragons.

[JJM152]

The game play commentary from the OP is pretty much just his opinion. I happen to disagree with most of his points in that regard as well as his alternatives border on the mind numbingly boring from my perspective.



On the other hand, I agree with his content assessment. The content that is there is generally really good (especially compared to what passes for a triple a title these days), but it's not as deep as Baldurs Gate which is probably still the high water mark for BioWare.



Personally my belief is that BioWare has traded a degree of depth (or would it be width?) for a more immersible gameplay experience. For example, while BG 2 seemed truly epic in scope and content, Dragon Age on the other hand makes the most of the content it does have. The characters are better written (I still love Jahierah and Viconia and Minsc, but their personalities are not nearly as well developed as the principals in this game) and the setting has much more character (Fereldan, for all its fantasy tropes, is still more remarkable than Athkatla).



If anything I think where this game falls down is on the first arc and the denoument. Loghain is just not as epic of a villain as Jon Irenicus and it certainly hurts this game in the last quarter. The Landsmeet criticism from the OP I find entirely valid, I also feel that the story goes from a real high point to a shabby "lets wrap this up now" right after.



In any case, this is still the best game I have played all year. And I am definitely looking forward to seeing more of Thedas in the future (and tracking down my baby momma).

[paranoid_marv]

Although I agree with many of the issues brought up (I don't necessarily have the same complaint for all of them) it always strikes me a bit odd when people score games with numbers or letter grades. Does a 10.0 mean that the game is perfect? I've never played a 10. Maybe a 10 just means that the game gave you the most important parts of the experience you were expecting. If so, I'd give Dragon Age a 10. It gave me adventure the likes of which I haven't seen since The Legend of Zelda: Windwaker (Majora's Mask being my favorite of the series just to add to the blasphemy). It gave me an RPG experience that was more or less what I expected. It was basic but varied just enough to make you play more than once. The narrative was great relative to video games, and I'm glad Bioware has made spinning a good yarn one of their main goals. I guess my point is that although the OP made many valid points about the game, all of them seemed a bit to technical to be detrimental to the score, if one should even be given, compared to the game as a whole. On the other hand, the OP has a rather impressive resumé, whereas I do not.

Now, on to the griping.

Anybody else think that randomly generated equipment would really add to the game? I mean something along the lines of Diablo and Borderlands. After the second play through, you have pretty much seen it all, and what's worse is that near the end of the game I felt locked into choosing certain pieces of gear based on my class and specialization. It's obvious that I should pick those items to optimize my character but that ends the mystery. Every play through from then on is just a race to get that gear whether it is for your character or one of your party mates. If the game included randomly generated equipment, there wouldn't be an end to the loot mystery, because awesome gear could be on the soon-to-be copse right around the corner. And really, isn't that the best loot. The type that pops up in the most mundane places just when the game is beginning to lull. The item that defies all expectations and rolls amazing stats.

Diablo and Borderlands are amazing examples of this. I don't know what's going on in either of them because their stories don't interest me the way the Dragon Age story does, but I play them anyway. I play them simply for the thrill of the next drop. This may sound like the rantings of a loot ****, and they are, but it is also about the integrity of the gear and the authenticity of the game. I agree with the OP that the best weapons and armor shouldn't be purchased and I also believe that when I bust myself to beat the boss baddy, I should be rewarded accordingly. That makes the item mean that much more.

Leaving the best loot to the mercy of the rolls also complements a more complex RPG system. Randomly generated equipment makes room for more exotic builds, especially if weapon specialization is taken into account.

That's the biggest complaint I have about the game and even then I wouldn't call it a change I feel is necessary. If instead they just did a better job with the equipment included in any further installments, I don't believe the game would suffer from having a set item list as opposed to random loot.

Other than that, leather armor is ugly (I always liked Bioware's badass yet practical approach but wtf is up with the hats), armor with rune slots sounds fun, heavy/ massive gloves on my arcane warrior should show over robes, and do more with Dog. Dog is great.

[JJM152]

paranoid_marv wrote...



Anybody else think that randomly generated equipment would really add to the game? I mean something along the lines of Diablo and Borderlands.

I'm actually working on this right now. I got a test mod up a few days ago that wasn't terrible, but I'm putting together a new release right now that's a lot better.

[paranoid_marv]

Holy crap, I just noticed the add-on linked in your signature. Pretty good timing. I think I'll try it out.

Thanks!

[Varenus Luckmann]

I completely agree with everything OP said. I realize that statement doesn't really add to a healthy discussion, but it needs to be said.

[phordicus]

considering they didn't have to abide by someone else's rules like with BG, dao's mechanics are rather uninspiring. ME achieved a great mixture of uniqueness, versatility, and usefulness among most of the skills and classes. dao2 needs to ignore dao's scheme completely and just start over.

[JJM152]

phordicus wrote...

considering they didn't have to abide by someone else's rules like with BG, dao's mechanics are rather uninspiring. ME achieved a great mixture of uniqueness, versatility, and usefulness among most of the skills and classes. dao2 needs to ignore dao's scheme completely and just start over.

Yeah, the game mechanics are servicible, but obviously not great. I hate to say it,but I think the "best" stat system they came up with was in Jade Empire. The D & D games were... well, D & D, so they had their own quirks. JE was obviously heavily influenced by the D20 style of play, but it didn't have obvious flaws like... being able to ignore all your stats except for one (or possibly 2 if you play a rogue).

EDIT: Come to think of it, there were only 3 "main stats" in JE, and 3 derived stats. That's probably why it made more sense. Less stats meant they were all useful. In this game for instance, CON AND WIL are all but utterly pointless because they just influence derived stats. Why not let people purchase Health and Stamina/Mana directly if they were going to go that route?

All that being said, the melee combot in JE was really unbalanced between some styles (hohoho perma stun). But DA has it's own problems like that as well.... (cone of cold anyone?)

Still, when it comes to RPG statistics you either have to go crazy balls out to the wall, or keep it really simple. DA's system does come off as kind of half assed.

Modifié par JJM152, 19 décembre 2009 - 10:09 .

[Caprasia]

As somebody else said I read the title thinking "here we go, another one" but I can't disagree with anything raised. And yes, like you I love the game and will continue playing it. Great post.

[Rainen89]

I have to say this is one of the better "reviews" of the game. I agree with a lot of it, I love DAO but some more weapon options would've been great and some of the bugs that were allowed to be shipped were just ridiculous. Strength affecting every weapons damage (lethality the only exception.) is just lazy.

[SeanMurphy2]

Virtually none of those issues were important to me. I think everyone has got their own personal vision of what they wished the game was like.

Although I love the game, I would have said
- Occasionally the pacing of the combat. Sometimes it felt long without much variation. Break it up into smaller chunks interspersed with context, dialogue encounters ,exploration, and peaceful areas.

- The locations did not feel interconnected as a whole. Brecillian forest, Denerim, Redcliffe etc never felt connected as part of one Kingdom. They seemed to be separate areas. Whilst in BG2 the different areas of the city felt interconnected. You travel between areas to do quests.

- This is a personal preference. I would like the story after Ostager to focus more on Cauthrien, Loghain and his reasons. And present what happened at Ostager with more ambiguity and mystery. But instead the story structure switches focus to these four treaty locations.

Modifié par SeanMurphy2, 20 décembre 2009 - 12:50 .