102 réponses à ce sujet

[Jo_]

Most of your points are personal preference that is probably different from most other gamers. Don't think I saw more than 3 points out of 40+ I'd agree on (party size, lack of leather/cloth gear, more specific spell/ability descriptions)

Anyways, clear 10 for me, first game in this genere I could honestly say beeing better than fallout 1 and ufo 1.

[dirtywick]

Calara wrote...

dirtywick wrote...
Again not disputing any of that (except the use of the word "cheat" which seems bizarre), only saying that lesser hardware goes further on the Xbox.  I don't see you disputing that either though so I guess we're in agreement.

Well my original point was that the pc version of the game is limited because of the cross platform release on consoles as well as the PC. As the xbox 360 uses gimped hardware from 4 years ago and the recommended spec for the pc is a standard gaming rig from 2 years ago, I guess you agree that the PC version suffers because of the consoles.
 
So thats fine then. ;-)

I think it's a lack of mouse input moreso for my pet problems, but yes I think that was a limitation.  Then again, the PC version is better than the Xbox version already, so how much of an impact that had is questionable.

[Calara]

dirtywick wrote...

I think it's a lack of mouse input moreso for my pet problems, but yes I think that was a limitation.  Then again, the PC version is better than the Xbox version already, so how much of an impact that had is questionable.

Well its not really questionable at all. Things like larger fights, many more different models and skins for monsters (and the party members) are all possible if you remove the console limitations. 512MB of ram does mean more on an xbox than a PC, but its not in the same league as what you can achieve running 4GB on a modern PC gaming rig.

Modifié par Calara, 19 décembre 2009 - 08:14 .

[dirtywick]

Calara wrote...

dirtywick wrote...

I think it's a lack of mouse input moreso for my pet problems, but yes I think that was a limitation.  Then again, the PC version is better than the Xbox version already, so how much of an impact that had is questionable.

Well its not really questionable at all. Things like larger fights, many more different models and skins for monsters (and the party members) are all possible if you remove the console limitations. 512MB of ram does mean more on an xbox than a PC, but its not in the same league as what you can achieve running 4GB on a modern PC gaming rig.

The PC version has larger fights and better textures.  

[Calara]

dirtywick wrote..
The PC version has larger fights and better textures.  

But that still didnt stop the often repeated complaints of:
 
1) Not enough different monster types
2) Not enough different weapon models
3) Not enough different armour models (especially leather and cloth armour)
4) No cloaks
5) Not enough different body types
6) Not enough different armour textures

All of things would have added extra demands to the system specs. I would suspect that they maxed out what they could do on the consoles. If you check out the pc recommended specs, its 1GB of ram for xp and 1.5GB for vista/win7, which is very low indeed. My old gaming rig from roughly 5 years ago was running XP with 1GB of ram, they really werent making huge performance demands on the pc version.

[dirtywick]

Calara wrote...

dirtywick wrote..
The PC version has larger fights and better textures.  

But that still didnt stop the often repeated complaints of:
 
1) Not enough different monster types
2) Not enough different weapon models
3) Not enough different armour models (especially leather and cloth armour)
4) No cloaks
5) Not enough different body types
6) Not enough different armour textures

All of things would have added extra demands to the system specs. I would suspect that they maxed out what they could do on the consoles. If you check out the pc recommended specs, its 1GB of ram for xp and 1.5GB for vista/win7, which is very low indeed. My old gaming rig from roughly 5 years ago was running XP with 1GB of ram, they really werent making huge performance demands on the pc version.

I don't doubt that there were limitations imposed, but they did consider the higher performance of the PC and compensated.  To what degree this is from the Xbox and other influences I don't know.  It may even be that the limitations were there but the budget was bigger because of cross market anticipated sales and allowed them to do more than they would have for PC only development.  Who knows.

[Calara]

dirtywick wrote...

Calara wrote...

dirtywick wrote..
The PC version has larger fights and better textures.  

But that still didnt stop the often repeated complaints of:
 
1) Not enough different monster types
2) Not enough different weapon models
3) Not enough different armour models (especially leather and cloth armour)
4) No cloaks
5) Not enough different body types
6) Not enough different armour textures

All of things would have added extra demands to the system specs. I would suspect that they maxed out what they could do on the consoles. If you check out the pc recommended specs, its 1GB of ram for xp and 1.5GB for vista/win7, which is very low indeed. My old gaming rig from roughly 5 years ago was running XP with 1GB of ram, they really werent making huge performance demands on the pc version.

I don't doubt that there were limitations imposed, but they did consider the higher performance of the PC and compensated.  To what degree this is from the Xbox and other influences I don't know.  It may even be that the limitations were there but the budget was bigger because of cross market anticipated sales and allowed them to do more than they would have for PC only development.  Who knows.

Well I played the pc version, and there was 1 type of leather armour model for females.... 1! Even if they improved the pc version over the console version, thats just ridiculous. In the end I just made my female rogue get 26 str and use the Wardens plate armour, even though it was an inferior build to the Felon's coat dagger/cunning one, purely because I didnt want my character to be using the same generic leather chest graphics with the collar (she wasnt a slave or a hound!).

[Skellimancer]

Game is easy, wear what you want.

[Gecon]

[quote]Imrahil_ wrote...

I've played through all the origins now & finished the game 4 times. [/quote]
Oooooookkkaaaaayyyyy .... did I get this right ? You rate a game that you finished 4 times already (how long is it out already, anyway ?) and seemed to have enjoyed ... 8/10 ?!?!

[quote] - Dead Enemies Don't Drop All Loot [/quote] You played a heap of roleplaying games and complain about this kind of thing ?  What are you ? The kind of guy who watched all Star Trek and Star Wars movies, then sees a new SciFi flick and comes up with complains like "but sound doesnt travel through space" ?  Really ? No kidding.

[quote] - Party Size - 4 person party < fun than 6 person party. [/quote] Old dicussion. They would need to change quite a bit of the rest of the game to get us back the good old 6 people party in a meaningful way, though.

Like you would definitely need more classes. You would need fun classes like Bard or Monk which dont really fill a role in the good old Tank - Healer - DD scheme, but salt the experience.

And they would need more than 10 companions for a 6 people party, too... especially once they introduced more classes.

For their current setup, only 4 slots work better, I think. 5 slots at most. And - the less companions, the more content per companion.

[quote] - Party Levels Up At Camp [/quote] Well, suffice to say I absolutely loved that one and would be loudly complaining if it would be otherwise, as they already introduced this feature back in KotOR. This is the only way how having more companions than you party size makes any sense at all.

[quote] - PC Can't Interject  [/quote] You cant be serious *sigh* theres a TON of chances to interject, for heavens sake. Just not in ALL conversations.

[quote] - Auto-Resurrection [/quote] Meh whatever. Just use your fantasy and imagine you spend a 3 week trip to the next town and asked the gods for another 6 weeks until your companion got resurrected and you spend another 3 weeks to get back to the old spot.

By the way, there is no resurrection in the game at all. You're supposed to be only disabled.

[quote] - We Are All Half-Troll [/quote] Oh ? You said that one, not me. Yeah, and standing around waiting for your life or mana to get back to full is really something I love spending my time on, thank you very much. Its SO damn interesting.

[quote] - Community Inventory Is Meh, But Backpacks Are Stupid  [/quote] I prefer having a simple inventory and not something I have to spend hours to sort it and even longer to find anything in it.

[quote] - Awesome Items Cost 100+ Gold [/quote] Well if asked, I prefer the "good items drop from bosses" method too, but I'm not killed by this approach either.

[quote] - No Activated Items [/quote] Doesnt kill me and there where really not that many activateable items in BG2 either, even if you are somehow under the delusion it would be otherwise ?!? Anyway, you have many more buttons to smash in DA than in BG, on non-spellcasters.

[quote] - I Don't Know What My Gear Does [/quote] Then read its descriptions ?!?

[quote] - No Spears / ... / bla / ... / blubb / ... / prehistorian stone handaxes from china / ...  [/quote] Visit a museum then ? I'm pretty sure most people can enjoy a game that only contains swords and some kind of ranged weapons. In fact I know for sure they do, for thats pretty much all Star Wars has.

[quote] - Can't Create Your Party [/quote] So suddenly you want DA to be IWD, not BG ? And with the Respec Mod you can make every party member into anything, anyway. Short of changing their base class, of course.



P.s.: Ooops. Sorry for my being a bit overly sarcastic, but the first line of the posting already put me into sarcasm mood.

Modifié par Gecon, 19 décembre 2009 - 09:46 .

[Artharionn]

I think the stuff mentioned by Imrahil_ should be done as a DLC (like new weapon types) and patches (like no more stupid loot). But no, they had to make Warden's Keep, Stone Prisoner and now Return to Ostagar. Don't get me wrong, those are fine DLC's but none of them was actually needed to make the game better. It's not like after beating the game you say "Well, the game was fine but I think it really needed a stone golem as a party member". Auto-resurrection and health regeneration should be dependent on difficulty setting. Why do they make a nightmare difficulty while still treating players as casuals?

As for the gear/statistics description, try this mod www.dragonagenexus.com/downloads/file.php . It's must have for me.

Modifié par Artharionn, 19 décembre 2009 - 09:50 .

[Gecon]

Erucolindo wrote...

However, before I get into specifics, I will point out that a lot of your concerns, while valid, where done to save money.

Err. Money ? Try DEVELOPMENT TIME ?

Plus you're wrong. Most of this complains where not saving money (or development time), they where making the gaming experience slower and more boring. Having to get access to resurrection, having to spend hours to sort a BG-style inventory (or to find anything in it) etc is no fun compared to what DA offers.

Erucolindo wrote...
It's sad, movies and games suffer from this and are made worse cause of this, but the publishers of games want the game out asap and they want it done for as little money as possible so they get more back in profit.

Except for DA, of course. A good solid old style roleplaying game with all the good stuff we missed so long.

And with a great story, too. I was totally surprised the OP had hardly anything to say about that one. Except of endlessly ranting he wanted to have a clone of IWD.

Erucolindo wrote...

Backpacks are annoying I guess, and can be a bit pricey, especially
early on, but I mean well I don't know why they don't just give up
infinite inventory.

Which is not what the OP complained about, though. In fact its the exact opposite of what the OP wanted.

CJohnJones wrote...
150-200 hours of entertainment for fifty bucks. I'd call that a 10.0

Ok thats a bit ... simple in argument. The word thats missing is "good" before entertainment.

Suron wrote...
I am sadly disappointed with a lot of
these kinds of things in this game....and I'm a HUGE BG fan...I can't
count how many times I played through.... [...]

But was it really stuff like the inventory or having to get resurrection that made BG great ? Am I the only one who hated this trouble with having to sleep in BG to get new spells ? Granted, the rulesystem of BG was overall better, but this rulesystem here is under 100% control of Bioware, and I am sure they will improve it over time.

[Lil-Vinny29]

I agree that the game aint really perfect, most flaws has been already pointed out.



More different armor and weapons

More companions and maybe bring up the team to 6 instead of 4

Gather more gold to spend

Surely alot more to bring the game to perfect, hopefully the improvements are planned for some DLCs and DA:O 2



But im a huge fan of this game, third playthrough going over 200hrs played since I got it. For now I can live with the flaws as it brings lots of fun.

[Torias]

Oops.

I just edited out a few spoilers from this thread, thinking it was in the "No Spoilers" section. I didn't realise it was IN the game forum (Spoilers)

my apologies to the people who's posts were edited.

Modifié par Torias, 19 décembre 2009 - 11:19 .

[Tae Jir]

Imrahil_ damn fine topic!



What I agree with is your enthusiasm for the game and a concurrent awareness of some of its faults. And from this topic and others, I keep seeing a common thread: "this is a (very good)(great) game; and here's what would make it even better! Please! more Dragon Age!!"



And I can only agree.

[tetracycloide]

dirtywick wrote...

tetracycloide wrote...

dirtywick wrote...

It's not as significant as you think.  There's no background tasks running on a console, for instance.

My rig, with only 2 gigs of RAM, has almost as much RAM free with dragon age running on windows 7 (not even XP!) as the xbox has in it total.  Background tasks matter less than you might think.  Apples to apples my GPU has twice as much DDR3 RAM as the xbox has in total.  There is no comparison.

That's great but I'm not debating on whether or not a PC is capable of having better hardware than an Xbox.  Of course it is and the gap will continue to grow.  Point is that side by side comparisons of numbers doesn't take everything into account.  Dragon Age on a computer with 512MB of RAM wouldn't run nearly as well as on an Xbox.  It's misleading to say look at the RAM because an Xbox doesn't need as much RAM to do the same thing.

Actually the exact post I was responding to was a statement that 512 RAM wasn't a limiting factor on the 360.  Obviously it is a limiting factor compared to PCs that can easily have that much RAM still free with dragon age running.  It's misleading to say it's not a limiting factor when it is reguardless of the fact that 512 RAM on the xbox doesn't have as much overhead as it would on a PC.

[kevinwastaken]

Good post.



I'm a "B."

[Enduring_Warrior]

CJohnJones wrote...

150-200 hours of entertainment for fifty bucks. I'd call that a 10.0

To me the awesome things cancel out the bad things (and I agree with your suggestions over all). The awesome things add up to more than 10.0 and the negatives don't take it down to a low "B."

I won't just play anything, and anything that I would play twice has to be at least a B+

I want my 100 hours back/

[TriggerHappy64]

Somewhat off topic, but how does anyone finish the game 4 times already? Don't people work/have school/other responsibilities? I've been playing 24 hours total and I've only finished something like 20% of the game.

[Lil-Vinny29]

TriggerHappy64 wrote...

Somewhat off topic, but how does anyone finish the game 4 times already? Don't people work/have school/other responsibilities? I've been playing 24 hours total and I've only finished something like 20% of the game.

Yeah, Ive work and family but since nov.2 its been work, family and Dragon Age!! Besides other things like Xmas coming and seeing relatives, not a problem!

[Fishy]

Enemy reasons:

- Dead Enemies Don't Drop All Loot - Basically, if I kill a guy obviously wearing plate mail & wielding a massive maul, I should be able to collect that plate mail & maul.  In Dragon Age, I might get a Health Poultice from him.  Games which let me loot everything the enemies were using, no matter that they may be useless & worth 2 cp, are just plain better.

**I understand  .. But think about it..Does it's make any sense to remove a full plate mail that a dead man's wearing in the middle of action?Even in a Fantasy game that does not make any sense.

- Dead Enemies Drop Silly Loot - An offshoot of the above point, if Wolves drop Health Poultices or High Dragons drop Chain Mail, I think that's silly.  Of course the High Dragon's hoard should have stuff like that, but its corpse shouldn't.  Silly.  Just... well... yeah, silly.  Why does that Spider have Heavy Chain Mail  or 31 cp on its corpse?

*****A dragon dropping 50 sword and 50 armor that silly .. Where's the backpack?

Party reasons:

- Party Size - 4 person party < fun than 6 person party.  It just is.  And the restriction is felt more the lower the restriction goes (Wizardry had 8-person parties & that worked).  It limits my choice, it limits my interactions, it limits how much I can trade "utility" for "fun".  In DA, I can't really see how Sten-Dog-Alistair interact without sacrificing party utility.  I can't see how Oghren-(Spoiler)-Shale interact.  I can't set up complex tactics with 4 people.  And it limits the challenges I can face because it's always, always me & <=3 other people.  This one is especially noticeable in DA since all the NPC's are (almost) always available.  Why did Sten not accompany me into the Deep Roads?  Because of party size.  He wasn't doing anything.  He roasted marshmallows at camp the whole time because of party size, not story.

*agree

- Party Levels Up At Camp - I guess this is an attempt to compensate for the above point, but it makes no sense.  Why does Sten gain 5,000 xp by sitting at camp roasting marshmallows?

*Well .. He does accompagny you .. Just *assume* he's with you all the time.

- PC Can't Interject - One of my favorite things is interparty banter & party member interjections.  But in DA, the PC is mostly a bystander during banters.  I can't get involved in their conversations while we're running over bridges. 

**You're the group therapist.You're their Psy..Don't forget to  listen to their story so they might appreciate you..But no one care about you.


Combat reasons:

- Auto-Resurrection - This is an obvious console crutch.  Why do my characters auto-res after combat?  There is no death for the party as long as one of us survives?  Makes no sense.  Reduces any suspense to near nothing. 

**They don't die .. They're just knocked.. 



Gear reasons:


- Lack Of Variation in Leather Armor & Mage Gear - You know this.  Everyone knows this.  Mentioned 1,000 1,001 times.

** They lacked time ... So they say.For a game that took 5 years to make... hmm.

- Awesome Items Cost 100+ Gold - I'm gonna fold DLC items into this point as well.  There are soooo many items that should be drops from bosses, but are, instead, either given for free or cost 120 Gold from a merchant.  I can't even imagine a reason why this is better than a boss drop (or, rather, a boss's hoard drop if it makes no sense they'd be carrying it when they fight you - see above).  The Edge?  Best dagger ever for free?  Except maybe for that 120 gp dagger?  Just bad all around.

**Why the broodmother would carry the best dagger in the game?Hide it in her tities?That make sense actually.Best stuff's for sell and not somewhere in a monster backpack?WOW ..CONTROVERSY!



- No Spears / Flails / Hammers / Katanas / Slings / Halberds / Throwing Weapons / Scimitars / (Warrior) Staves / Shortswords / Clubs - Obviously, a game that has these > a game that doesn't, so the fact that DA doesn't have them due to animation limitations detracts.  Obviously.  I don't care how real-world realistic "we couldn't afford to create those animations" is, you gotta accept the hit.  "We couldn't program something that is just plain obviously lacking" is... ok? I guess... but you *have* to recognize that your game suffers for it.  Mightily.  Obviously. (almost used a different word - sorry)

**agree .. i guess they lacked time ..


Well the other stuff i could care less..

Just add..

Why they did not give a VOICE for the PC.WHY??They did it in Mass Effect and no one complained.Actually it's was praised.There's like 8549385093458039583095803 dialogue all voiced... but making the protagonist talk was too much i guess.Yeah they lacked time.

Well i'm back to DA..I need to do my Therapy run .. BRB.

[BroBear Berbil]

There's not much about this game I can complain about.

Lack of armor models is the biggest issue for me. You mentioned leather and cloth but there's really very little variation in the other armor sets as well. Seems like Mass Effect shared this problem. It would be nice if BioWare invested more in armor models in the future. I don't just mean more skins either, I mean actual models. Would like to see some variation in the shape of armor.

A group of 5 or 6 would only make the game more fun for me if they also adjusted enemy stats and the number of enemies to compensate for it. As it is I find myself thinking the game is too easy even on Nightmare and wishing enemies had way more hp than they do. A group of 4 can tear through bosses in a matter of seconds with the exception of bosses that have fight mechanics that draw things out.

Don't care about the amount of weapon types in the game so much as the poorly implemented ones we have currently. The game favors longswords way too much and throws swords at you at every turn while axes should be far better for a dps role but aren't and maces are just terrible. I'm totally fine not having katanas in game and the psuedo-ninja crap that usually accompanies it.

Modifié par OnionXI, 20 décembre 2009 - 10:39 .

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

OnionXI wrote...

There's not much about this game I can complain about.

Lack of armor models is the biggest issue for me. You mentioned leather and cloth but there's really very little variation in the other armor sets as well. Seems like Mass Effect shared this problem. It would be nice if BioWare invested more in armor models in the future. I don't just mean more skins either, I mean actual models. Would like to see some variation in the shape of armor.

A group of 5 or 6 would only make the game more fun for me if they also adjusted enemy stats and the number of enemies to compensate for it. As it is I find myself thinking the game is too easy even on Nightmare and wishing enemies had way more hp than they do. A group of 4 can tear through bosses in a matter of seconds with the exception of bosses that have fight mechanics that draw things out.

Don't care about the amount of weapon types in the game so much as the poorly implemented ones we have currently. The game favors longswords way too much and throws swords at you at every turn while axes should be far better for a dps role but aren't and maces are just terrible. I'm totally fine not having katanas in game and the psuedo-ninja crap that usually accompanies it.

Yup I would say these are my only real gripes too and glad others are noticing that it isn't really just light and cloth that has little variation. Most of the levels of armor have really only 1 or 2 models. The area where the higher up armors do vary a bit more than the lower ones is the helms.

It would be nice to go back to the groups of 6 of old but agree that they would need to alter the enemy to compensate, though in theory that really isn't hard to do IIRC.

To quote Fighter from 8-bit theater "I like swords" but agree it would be nice to see a few more decent axes and maces.

Hell no to ninja/oriental stuff unless some area of Thedas has a similar atmosphere and from what I've read I can't see any area that is.

[ToJKa1]

I have to agree with most of the points the OP makes, most of them are minor complaints, but i hope BioWare improves them in DLCs/expansions/sequels.

Still, i would call DA a 9 instead of 8. And no game will ever get 10 from me, for nothing can be perfect. Except Doom

Modifié par ToJKa1, 20 décembre 2009 - 12:42 .

[System Shock]

metatrans wrote...
 realism adds to immersion but it can lead to very unfun situations where you are burdened too much with minutia for the sake of realism instead of doing something thats actually fun.

you are kidding, right?  Realism burdens too much with minutia? This game is ALL about minutia without the realism. Guess pausing your game so you can change your armor and change your party's "tactics" , that's not minutia.

[Calara]

Skellimancer wrote...

Game is easy, wear what you want.

Thats not the point. I never said it was hard. From a roleplaying sense, a rogue shouldnt have to wear non-leather items because theres no variation in armour models. Theres only 2 plate mail models iirc.