210 réponses à ce sujet

[CrutchCricket]

dreman9999 wrote...
It does Affect all tech, but it does not destory it. Tech can be restored if all it's programs are wiped. But with AI's their progrming is there persona, ideals,Ego, and self. If that is gone who every they were is also gone. If your ego is gone youwho you were is dead. If your forget who you were and never remeber who you werethe person you were is dead.

Do you realize what you're saying? All tech got a software wipe and we just "fixed it"? On the spot, no additional resoures required just whipped it back into shape while crashed on a random planet, or floating in space, or even worse, during FTL?

Do me a favor. Wipe your computer, and just "fix it". Do not use an OS installation disk (presumably that got wiped too). Just rewrite the whole thing and get back to me.

Oh wait.

[CrutchCricket]

o Ventus wrote...

I said initial shockwave, which is followed by a beam fired from the Citadel to the Charon relay. I never said they were one and the same.

Just admit that the Crucible firing is pointless in Control, because it is.

There is no beam from the Citadel in control. Ever.

Watch it again.

[V-rcingetorix]

Lord Goose wrote...

I think, it that in different endings energy is converted into different forms.

Low EMS Destory (Crucible is damaged, not functioning properly). Energy is disastrous for all technology and even organic beings.
High EMS Destroy (Crucible is relatively in one piece, functioning properly). Energy is disastrous only for anyone and anything of certain technological level.
Control. Energy is released in a manner what only Reapers can comprehend.
Synthesis. Energy is released in different manner, and it transforms everything and everyone.

This makes the most sense to me for why things went the way they did. Hopefully, there will be ways (DLC?) for the EMS rating to be improved even more, so the Crucible can arrive completely intact, and save EDI/Geth, or reduce the sacrifice to just one of them.

[dreman9999]

Fawx9 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Fawx9 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Fawx9 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Fawx9 wrote...

And again, if their is a reaper only signal used for control why didn't destroy just piggy back onto it for its targeting?

There really is no good excuse how destroy can have such a stupid targeting system when compared to the others.

It's using the system thats already there. In control you just using the system to change itsefl. Destroy is just something like  an emp blast.

If its an EMP then it should target all tech, from PC to Reapers. That didn't happen it only targetted living synthetics somehow.

The fact that it can target things specifically makes it seem that targetting only reapers, since they have reaper exclusive properties, such as receiving control signals, should be possible and that geth/edi were thrown in there just because.

Yes it did. The starchild spacifly state it affects all tech.

If it did none of the ships would be working.

In high EMS destory it somehow only affects living synthetics meaning it has a magical way to seperate them from a standard PC. Meaning there should have been a way to target a Reaper only property, such as the control sigal from the catalyst.

The geth/edi are simply a punishment for choosing destory, there is no reason for them to be there if the waves of energy are smart enough to discremenate at different levels.

Why do you think the normady crashed on the planet? It did stop working but it was restored. Affect does not mean destroy all tech. It just means it stopped the tech from working till it's restored and repaired. But want that means with an AI is a massive mind wipe. Who ever they were would be gone. THink of it like brain death for machines.

What you are saying makes no sense.

So for a normal machine its an EMP that just shuts it off. For a living machine it shuts it off and also kills their harddrive?

The only way that makes any kind of sense is if the EDI and the Geth were stupid enough to store all of their 'personal' data into RAM, which would indead be cleared in the case of a power failure.

And even if the Normandy had backups for every system (that would be a stupidly large amount) then why cant the Geth or EDI be simply restored to their last save point?

Not hard drive,  it destorys their programing.

[Applepie_Svk]

maaaze wrote...

*facepalm*

wow...you guys really need everything explained...and are not able to think ONE BIT for yourself...it is truly astounding.

Energy can be used in different ways? what?...there is a difference between overloading all synthetics and changing the command signal? huh? how is that possible ?
 

Geths were uploaded with Reaper code - so they are from part Reapers now, atleast their programming with Reaper code allow them to operate at same AI level as Reapers - they cannot be hacked by Reapers and it works both ways - simple logic huh ?
- with explosion AI will die
- with control AI will be rewriten in way as did Legion with Heretics in ME2...

[Stalker]

dreman9999 wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

maaaze wrote...

*facepalm*

wow...you guys really need everything explained...and are not able to think ONE BIT for yourself...it is truly astounding.

Energy can be used in different ways? what?...there is a difference between overloading all synthetics and changing the command signal? huh? how is that possible ?

really guys...take a book and try to learn something.
basic education is a good thing.

Are you denying that the primary purpose of Destroy functioning differently than Control had nothing to do with in-game logic or reason, and was in fact a giant sign by BioWare saying, "Please consider our other endings?!"

No.
Destroy =emp blast

control= rewrite programing.

Destroy used the mass relay network to send out an emp blast.
Control used the mass rely to seen new commands to all the AI's(REAPERS) that are linked to the network like computers and a network get mass upgrade via network connection.

lol red glowing EMP blast. I doubt you have any serious comprehension of what would happen with a galaxy-wide EMP...
Destroy and Control both emit a signal with the same targets, it just works out differently.

What would be the point of Control if it doesn't affect all that Synthetic life that is so dangerous...?

Modifié par Mr Massakka, 25 juillet 2012 - 08:28 .

[Ryzaki]

...actually come to think of it...since the Geth did upload themselves with Reaper code...why *can't* starbrat control them?

...I mean...one would think the code is what gives starbrat the means to control the Reapers...so why wouldn't that work for the Geth? Sure there's a good chance EDI's mostly non-Reaper tech (or the bits of her that are Reaper tech aren't enough to completely control her without giving away the Catalyst) but...why not the Geth?

[dreman9999]

CrutchCricket wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
It does Affect all tech, but it does not destory it. Tech can be restored if all it's programs are wiped. But with AI's their progrming is there persona, ideals,Ego, and self. If that is gone who every they were is also gone. If your ego is gone youwho you were is dead. If your forget who you were and never remeber who you werethe person you were is dead.

Do you realize what you're saying? All tech got a software wipe and we just "fixed it"? On the spot, no additional resoures required just whipped it back into shape while crashed on a random planet, or floating in space, or even worse, during FTL?

Do me a favor. Wipe your computer, and just "fix it". Do not use an OS installation disk (presumably that got wiped too). Just rewrite the whole thing and get back to me.

Oh wait.

I'm not say they did have any back ups or used back ups. It's the concept of it is different with AI's. Averge machine can be restored on a base level. AI's, if they do this, would be another person all together from what they were. Nothign says the AI's are gone forever or can't be restored, just that who they were is gone now.

[o Ventus]

CrutchCricket wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

I said initial shockwave, which is followed by a beam fired from the Citadel to the Charon relay. I never said they were one and the same.

Just admit that the Crucible firing is pointless in Control, because it is.

There is no beam from the Citadel in control. Ever.

Watch it again.

Does it matter? Either way, the Crucible charges the relay with X colored energy (apparently via the initial shockwave, from that cutscene), followed by the relay firing the shot.

My point is that the whole sequence is completely pointless and doesn't need to happen if all that's occuring is Shepard replacing the Catalyst.

[Fawx9]

dreman9999 wrote...

-cut-

Not hard drive,  it destorys their programing.

I'm just going to go with CrutchCricket on this and assume that you don't realize what you are suggesting.

Here's what you suggest. That Destory was like taking a giant magnet and wiping your PC's motherboard clean. You now aparently have no backups since this hit everything and you have to start from scratch.

Do you have any idea how long it would take to reprogram a single computer let alone an entire space ship?

If this is what the writier meant they must have never walked into their dev teams office. Anyone in there would laugh at this idea.

Modifié par Fawx9, 25 juillet 2012 - 08:31 .

[dreman9999]

Mr Massakka wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

maaaze wrote...

*facepalm*

wow...you guys really need everything explained...and are not able to think ONE BIT for yourself...it is truly astounding.

Energy can be used in different ways? what?...there is a difference between overloading all synthetics and changing the command signal? huh? how is that possible ?

really guys...take a book and try to learn something.
basic education is a good thing.

Are you denying that the primary purpose of Destroy functioning differently than Control had nothing to do with in-game logic or reason, and was in fact a giant sign by BioWare saying, "Please consider our other endings?!"

No.
Destroy =emp blast

control= rewrite programing.

Destroy used the mass relay network to send out an emp blast.
Control used the mass rely to seen new commands to all the AI's(REAPERS) that are linked to the network like computers and a network get mass upgrade via network connection.

lol red glowing EMP blast. I doubt you have any serious comprehension of what would happen with a galaxy-wide EMP...
Destroy and Control both emit a signal with the same targets, it just works out differently.

What would be the point of Control if it doesn't affect all that Synthetic life that is so dangerous...?

No. It's different. The starchild tells you it different. In control your replacing him and using the system conection there to change all the reapers programing. Detroy is not the same concept. The geth are not control because they are not part of the catalyst system. Think of it like a network of computers.

[CrutchCricket]

dreman9999 wrote...
I'm not say they did have any back ups or used back ups. It's the concept of it is different with AI's. Averge machine can be restored on a base level. AI's, if they do this, would be another person all together from what they were. Nothign says the AI's are gone forever or can't be restored, just that who they were is gone now.

A "base level"? What?

Differentiate between the "base level" and the higher level please and let me know how an EMP can do that as well.

[o Ventus]

dreman9999 wrote...

No. It's different. The starchild tells you it different. In control your replacing him and using the system conection there to change all the reapers programing. Detroy is not the same concept. The geth are not control because they are not part of the catalyst system. Think of it like a network of computers.

You really have no idea what the hell you're talking about, do you?

[Chashan]

Mr Massakka wrote...

[...]

Destroy and Control both emit a signal with the same targets, it just works out differently.

What would be the point of Control if it doesn't affect all that Synthetic life that is so dangerous...?

Succession of the failed Reaper-controller consensus with a mind more worthy of the task, a mind that proved its superior skills of leadership and intellect by coming that far. Simple, really.

Other than that, there is the other tidbit there:

" Destroy and Control both emit a signal with the same targets [...] " 

Apparently, as per the will of the developers, the fundamental basics behind the emission of Red and Blue are different, therefore not affecting the same recipients.

Then again, wishy-washy as it is, one can still interpret things however one wants...."no canon" etc.

Modifié par Chashan, 25 juillet 2012 - 08:34 .

[Stalker]

dreman9999 wrote...

Mr Massakka wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

maaaze wrote...

*facepalm*

wow...you guys really need everything explained...and are not able to think ONE BIT for yourself...it is truly astounding.

Energy can be used in different ways? what?...there is a difference between overloading all synthetics and changing the command signal? huh? how is that possible ?

really guys...take a book and try to learn something.
basic education is a good thing.

Are you denying that the primary purpose of Destroy functioning differently than Control had nothing to do with in-game logic or reason, and was in fact a giant sign by BioWare saying, "Please consider our other endings?!"

No.
Destroy =emp blast

control= rewrite programing.

Destroy used the mass relay network to send out an emp blast.
Control used the mass rely to seen new commands to all the AI's(REAPERS) that are linked to the network like computers and a network get mass upgrade via network connection.

lol red glowing EMP blast. I doubt you have any serious comprehension of what would happen with a galaxy-wide EMP...
Destroy and Control both emit a signal with the same targets, it just works out differently.

What would be the point of Control if it doesn't affect all that Synthetic life that is so dangerous...?

No. It's different. The starchild tells you it different. In control your replacing him and using the system conection there to change all the reapers programing. Detroy is not the same concept. The geth are not control because they are not part of the catalyst system. Think of it like a network of computers.

Then how
exactly
is Control a solution to the Synthetics-vs-Organics problem if they are all alive and now it's just Shep controlling the Reapers?

"Congrats, you just destroyed all the Mass Relays so you could finally be the one who harvests the galaxy or what?"

[dreman9999]

Fawx9 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Fawx9 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Fawx9 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Fawx9 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Fawx9 wrote...

And again, if their is a reaper only signal used for control why didn't destroy just piggy back onto it for its targeting?

There really is no good excuse how destroy can have such a stupid targeting system when compared to the others.

It's using the system thats already there. In control you just using the system to change itsefl. Destroy is just something like  an emp blast.

If its an EMP then it should target all tech, from PC to Reapers. That didn't happen it only targetted living synthetics somehow.

The fact that it can target things specifically makes it seem that targetting only reapers, since they have reaper exclusive properties, such as receiving control signals, should be possible and that geth/edi were thrown in there just because.

Yes it did. The starchild spacifly state it affects all tech.

If it did none of the ships would be working.

In high EMS destory it somehow only affects living synthetics meaning it has a magical way to seperate them from a standard PC. Meaning there should have been a way to target a Reaper only property, such as the control sigal from the catalyst.

The geth/edi are simply a punishment for choosing destory, there is no reason for them to be there if the waves of energy are smart enough to discremenate at different levels.

Why do you think the normady crashed on the planet? It did stop working but it was restored. Affect does not mean destroy all tech. It just means it stopped the tech from working till it's restored and repaired. But want that means with an AI is a massive mind wipe. Who ever they were would be gone. THink of it like brain death for machines.

What you are saying makes no sense.

So for a normal machine its an EMP that just shuts it off. For a living machine it shuts it off and also kills their harddrive?

The only way that makes any kind of sense is if the EDI and the Geth were stupid enough to store all of their 'personal' data into RAM, which would indead be cleared in the case of a power failure.

And even if the Normandy had backups for every system (that would be a stupidly large amount) then why cant the Geth or EDI be simply restored to their last save point?

Not hard drive,  it destorys their programing.

I'm just going to go with CrutchCricket on this and assume that you don't realize what you are suggesting.

Here's what you suggest. That Destory was like taking a giant magnet and wiping your PC's motherboard clean. You now aparently have no backups since this hit everything and you have to start from scratch.

Do you have any idea how long it would take to reprogram a single computer let alone an entire space ship?

If this is what the writier meant they must have never walked into their dev teams office. Anyone in there would laugh at this idea.

Again, nothing is saying you don't have back ups. It's just with AI'S  restoring them from a back up would make them a different person from what they were before. What that AI was before as a person is dead. It would be like having a new person there. Nothing is saying the AI's can't be restored, just the the peoplw they were before would be dead.

[CronoDragoon]

dreman9999 wrote...
No.
Destroy =emp blast

control= rewrite programing.

Destroy used the mass relay network to send out an emp blast.
Control used the mass rely to seen new commands to all the AI's(REAPERS) that are linked to the network like computers and a network get mass upgrade via network connection.

So EMP blasts can completely disintegrate matter, like it does with Husks, even in high EMS destroy?

The endings work the way BioWare wants them to in order to produce the results they want. There isn't a consistent explanation that fits all the data given.

[CrutchCricket]

o Ventus wrote...
Does it matter? Either way, the Crucible charges the relay with X colored energy (apparently via the initial shockwave, from that cutscene), followed by the relay firing the shot.

My point is that the whole sequence is completely pointless and doesn't need to happen if all that's occuring is Shepard replacing the Catalyst.

Already dealt with this:

CrutchCricket wrote...
Because it is still a massive rewrite. And I doubt the holokid micros their every move.

Another
interpretation is that the pulse literally replaces each Reaper's
consciousness with the new control entity. Supported by the imagery at
the start of the epilogue speech (Shepard in the eye of the destroyer)

[CronoDragoon]

maaaze wrote...
No, it was meant to be a hard choice, based on what you are willing to risk and sacrifice...destroy without sacrifice is meaningless...

it is hollywood BS. it is boring. It goes against the whole Narrative.

You can do sacrifice for reasons that make sense in the narrative. If Shepard had died in Destroy but the geth/EDI lived, I would have been sad but satisfied knowing that once Shepard got onto that Citadel it only makes sense that it's the end of the line. Tube and Citadel explosion, etc. It would have also preserved thematic consistency because your efforts in establishing geth/quarian peace would not have been wasted.

[dreman9999]

Mr Massakka wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Mr Massakka wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

maaaze wrote...

*facepalm*

wow...you guys really need everything explained...and are not able to think ONE BIT for yourself...it is truly astounding.

Energy can be used in different ways? what?...there is a difference between overloading all synthetics and changing the command signal? huh? how is that possible ?

really guys...take a book and try to learn something.
basic education is a good thing.

Are you denying that the primary purpose of Destroy functioning differently than Control had nothing to do with in-game logic or reason, and was in fact a giant sign by BioWare saying, "Please consider our other endings?!"

No.
Destroy =emp blast

control= rewrite programing.

Destroy used the mass relay network to send out an emp blast.
Control used the mass rely to seen new commands to all the AI's(REAPERS) that are linked to the network like computers and a network get mass upgrade via network connection.

lol red glowing EMP blast. I doubt you have any serious comprehension of what would happen with a galaxy-wide EMP...
Destroy and Control both emit a signal with the same targets, it just works out differently.

What would be the point of Control if it doesn't affect all that Synthetic life that is so dangerous...?

No. It's different. The starchild tells you it different. In control your replacing him and using the system conection there to change all the reapers programing. Detroy is not the same concept. The geth are not control because they are not part of the catalyst system. Think of it like a network of computers.

Then how
exactly
is Control a solution to the Synthetics-vs-Organics problem if they are all alive and now it's just Shep controlling the Reapers?

"Congrats, you just destroyed all the Mass Relays so you could finally be the one who harvests the galaxy or what?"

The SYTHETIC /ORGANIC  problem caused by the fact that we use and force AI's as tools based on the fact we orignaly made them as tools.  Control can be a means to the end to the salution because it can allow for sythesis to be a calaberation then a compromise. Rebember that the problem with the synthesis choice(out side that it make no sence to how it's down.)Is that it's forced. Now it can be do as a colaberation. Destory has the same concept as well.

[Mazebook]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

maaaze wrote...

*facepalm*

wow...you guys really need everything explained...and are not able to think ONE BIT for yourself...it is truly astounding.

Energy can be used in different ways? what?...there is a difference between overloading all synthetics and changing the command signal? huh? how is that possible ?
 

Geths were uploaded with Reaper code - so they are from part Reapers now, atleast their programming with Reaper code allow them to operate at same AI level as Reapers - they cannot be hacked by Reapers and it works both ways - simple logic huh ?
- with explosion AI will die
- with control AI will be rewriten in way as did Legion with Heretics in ME2...

with control the reapers get rewritten...the code for anyone else is meaningless... a mac virus can´t attack a windows OS.

reapers had no control over the geth...so...what was you point again?

[dreman9999]

CronoDragoon wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
No.
Destroy =emp blast

control= rewrite programing.

Destroy used the mass relay network to send out an emp blast.
Control used the mass rely to seen new commands to all the AI's(REAPERS) that are linked to the network like computers and a network get mass upgrade via network connection.

So EMP blasts can completely disintegrate matter, like it does with Husks, even in high EMS destroy?

The endings work the way BioWare wants them to in order to produce the results they want. There isn't a consistent explanation that fits all the data given.

Husk are held together by nano machines. If the nano machines at are used to make the hush , sustaine the hush , and get it to stay functioning are gone, What do you think happens?

[Fawx9]

dreman9999 wrote...

must kill pyramid

Again, nothing is saying you don't have back ups. It's just with AI'S  restoring them from a back up would make them a different person from what they were before. What that AI was before as a person is dead. It would be like having a new person there. Nothing is saying the AI's can't be restored, just the the peoplw they were before would be dead.

That doesn't make sense though. If the AI has a complete backup, then its complete. It would be the same AI it was on the day of the backup. The only reason Legion double wasn't the same is because his backup system was damaged in the SM.

What you're suggesting is that AIs in mass effect actually develop a spiritual soul that exists outside of their software/hardware.

[CronoDragoon]

CrutchCricket wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Are you denying that the primary purpose of Destroy functioning differently than Control had nothing to do with in-game logic or reason, and was in fact a giant sign by BioWare saying, "Please consider our other endings?!"

It has nothing to do with control and everything to do with the fact that  "destroying all synthetics but differentiating between sentient and non-sentient tech" is bull****.

If you posit that control also controls EDI and the geth you're still left with the same problem: Why am I only controlling Reapers, geth and EDI when I should be controlling every piece of tech in the galaxy?

Destroy was indeed sabotaged. But it has nothing to do with control.

What I am saying is that the #1 reason that Destroy and Control ARE different (and we agree they are, yeah?) is because of what I said above. In other words, at what point in planning out the endings did BioWare decide that Destroy would target all synthetics instead of just Reapers (like Control)? I posit that it was when they realized that everyone would just make a sharp right once the Catalyst's BS was through.

[CronoDragoon]

dreman9999 wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
No.
Destroy =emp blast

control= rewrite programing.

Destroy used the mass relay network to send out an emp blast.
Control used the mass rely to seen new commands to all the AI's(REAPERS) that are linked to the network like computers and a network get mass upgrade via network connection.

So EMP blasts can completely disintegrate matter, like it does with Husks, even in high EMS destroy?

The endings work the way BioWare wants them to in order to produce the results they want. There isn't a consistent explanation that fits all the data given.

Husk are held together by nano machines. If the nano machines at are used to make the hush , sustaine the hush , and get it to stay functioning are gone, What do you think happens?

I think that the husks probably do the same thing the Reapers did, and fall down dead. They don't. They are completely disintegrated. An EMP pulse cannot account for this.