210 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

o Ventus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

No. It's different. The starchild tells you it different. In control your replacing him and using the system conection there to change all the reapers programing. Detroy is not the same concept. The geth are not control because they are not part of the catalyst system. Think of it like a network of computers.

You really have no idea what the hell you're talking about, do you?

No... You were not listening...

[o Ventus]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Because it is still a massive rewrite. And I doubt the holokid micros their every move.

Another
interpretation is that the pulse literally replaces each Reaper's
consciousness with the new control entity. Supported by the imagery at
the start of the epilogue speech (Shepard in the eye of the destroyer)

...

Except the Reapers are implied to apparently be no longer autonomous and don't have concsiousness. If Shepard was making a new control entity (Catalyst) for each Reaper, then why is there no mention or implication of this happening? If anything, the Catalyst (singular) saying "And I do not look forward to being replaced by you but... I would be forced to accept it" implies that it's 1 new entity, not multiple. Never mind that Shepard in the epilogue narration keeps using 1st person pronouns, like he's talking to himself.

[dreman9999]

CronoDragoon wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
No.
Destroy =emp blast

control= rewrite programing.

Destroy used the mass relay network to send out an emp blast.
Control used the mass rely to seen new commands to all the AI's(REAPERS) that are linked to the network like computers and a network get mass upgrade via network connection.

So EMP blasts can completely disintegrate matter, like it does with Husks, even in high EMS destroy?

The endings work the way BioWare wants them to in order to produce the results they want. There isn't a consistent explanation that fits all the data given.

Husk are held together by nano machines. If the nano machines at are used to make the hush , sustaine the hush , and get it to stay functioning are gone, What do you think happens?

I think that the husks probably do the same thing the Reapers did, and fall down dead. They don't. They are completely disintegrated. An EMP pulse cannot account for this.

The husk are barely sustaned. Husk like the one in the destory ending are easilly destroyed. If the nano machine that sustain it are gone, they just fall a part.
Reapers are far more stable.

Modifié par dreman9999, 25 juillet 2012 - 08:45 .

[o Ventus]

dreman9999 wrote...

The husk are barely sustaned. Husk like the one in the destory ending are easilly destroyed. If the nano machine that sustain it are gone, they just fall a part.

Which isn't proven or supported by a single damned thing.

The nanites replace organs and vital fluids with tech. The physical tech itself, plus the remaining flesh should, logically, remain.

Never mind that, like the other guy said, EMP's do not and cannot do this.

Modifié par o Ventus, 25 juillet 2012 - 08:46 .

[dreman9999]

o Ventus wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...

Because it is still a massive rewrite. And I doubt the holokid micros their every move.

Another
interpretation is that the pulse literally replaces each Reaper's
consciousness with the new control entity. Supported by the imagery at
the start of the epilogue speech (Shepard in the eye of the destroyer)

...

Except the Reapers are implied to apparently be no longer autonomous and don't have concsiousness. If Shepard was making a new control entity (Catalyst) for each Reaper, then why is there no mention or implication of this happening? If anything, the Catalyst (singular) saying "And I do not look forward to being replaced by you but... I would be forced to accept it" implies that it's 1 new entity, not multiple. Never mind that Shepard in the epilogue narration keeps using 1st person pronouns, like he's talking to himself.

Do you understand the  catalyst every reaper at once?

Modifié par dreman9999, 25 juillet 2012 - 08:50 .

[o Ventus]

dreman9999 wrote...

Do you understand  catalyst every reaper at once?

I would, if this post was legible.

[RoboticWays]

Mr Massakka wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Mr Massakka wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

maaaze wrote...

*facepalm*

wow...you guys really need everything explained...and are not able to think ONE BIT for yourself...it is truly astounding.

Energy can be used in different ways? what?...there is a difference between overloading all synthetics and changing the command signal? huh? how is that possible ?

really guys...take a book and try to learn something.
basic education is a good thing.

Are you denying that the primary purpose of Destroy functioning differently than Control had nothing to do with in-game logic or reason, and was in fact a giant sign by BioWare saying, "Please consider our other endings?!"

No.
Destroy =emp blast

control= rewrite programing.

Destroy used the mass relay network to send out an emp blast.
Control used the mass rely to seen new commands to all the AI's(REAPERS) that are linked to the network like computers and a network get mass upgrade via network connection.

lol red glowing EMP blast. I doubt you have any serious comprehension of what would happen with a galaxy-wide EMP...
Destroy and Control both emit a signal with the same targets, it just works out differently.

What would be the point of Control if it doesn't affect all that Synthetic life that is so dangerous...?

No. It's different. The starchild tells you it different. In control your replacing him and using the system conection there to change all the reapers programing. Detroy is not the same concept. The geth are not control because they are not part of the catalyst system. Think of it like a network of computers.

Then how
exactly
is Control a solution to the Synthetics-vs-Organics problem if they are all alive and now it's just Shep controlling the Reapers?

"Congrats, you just destroyed all the Mass Relays so you could finally be the one who harvests the galaxy or what?"

You didnt watch the EC for control did you?

[CronoDragoon]

dreman9999 wrote...
The husk are barely sustaned. Husk like the one in the destory ending are easilly destroyed. If the nano machine that sustain it are gone, they just fall a part.
Reapers are far more stable.

I want to back up here for a sec: do you posit that low-EMS Destroy's beam is something analogous to a ginormous nuclear wave that destroys anything, but that because of higher EMS it gets transformed into an EMP pulse? I am not arguing one way or another but just want this clear.

[dreman9999]

o Ventus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

The husk are barely sustaned. Husk like the one in the destory ending are easilly destroyed. If the nano machine that sustain it are gone, they just fall a part.

Which isn't proven or supported by a single damned thing.

The nanites replace organs and vital fluids with tech. The physical tech itself, plus the remaining flesh should, logically, remain.

Never mind that, like the other guy said, EMP's do not and cannot do this.

The tech is just nanites. everythting that happen with husk are just with the material in the body already. Husk like the on in destory are easilly killed. In ME2,, they are shown to easilly fall to peices. In ME3 , It's showm to easily have gaping  holes in them. A shingl puch can kill a husk. Yet your tell me a husk has a stable form?

[xxBabyMonkeyxx]

BatmanPWNS wrote...

The perfectly logical excuse is............

^ This!!

[dreman9999]

o Ventus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Do you understand  catalyst every reaper at once?

I would, if this post was legible.

Let me make it clear for you the catalyst is every reaper at once. It, as it says it, is the enbodyment of the collective intelligence of every reaper.
To fully repalce the catalyst every reaper has to be rewritten.

[o Ventus]

dreman9999 wrote...

The tech is just nanites. everythting that happen with husk are just with the material in the body already. Husk like the on in destory are easilly killed. In ME2,, they are shown to easilly fall to peices. In ME3 , It's showm to easily have gaping  holes in them. A shingl puch can kill a husk. Yet your tell me a husk has a stable form?

1. Go and take a typing class.

2. You know how many nanites would be required to replace every single organ, tissue, and fluid in a human body, let alone every single organic that the Reapers turn into husks (instantaneously, no less)? Unless it's stated somewhere, I don't think the nanites are the tech themselves.

3. They only fall to pieces if you hit them with a very high-powered weapon (see: Phalanx or Carnifex or shotguns). Also mind that I said that the organs and tissues are extracted, replaced by tech, right? Unless that tech is made of talc, it shouldn't be weaker than the human skeletal structure.

4. "single punch" is dictated by gameplay mechanics, so nice irrelevant point there.

5. If husks didn't have a stable form, how would they, I dunno... Exist?

Modifié par o Ventus, 25 juillet 2012 - 08:54 .

[dreman9999]

CronoDragoon wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
The husk are barely sustaned. Husk like the one in the destory ending are easilly destroyed. If the nano machine that sustain it are gone, they just fall a part.
Reapers are far more stable.

I want to back up here for a sec: do you posit that low-EMS Destroy's beam is something analogous to a ginormous nuclear wave that destroys anything, but that because of higher EMS it gets transformed into an EMP pulse? I am not arguing one way or another but just want this clear.

No. Low ems the crucilbe is unstable. High ems it's stable.  It an issue of the control of the energy out put.

[o Ventus]

dreman9999 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Do you understand  catalyst every reaper at once?

I would, if this post was legible.

Let me make it clear for you the catalyst is every reaper at once. It, as it says it, is the enbodyment of the collective intelligence of every reaper.
To fully repalce the catalyst every reaper has to be rewritten.

Or you could jsut replace the core programming of the Catalyst with Shepard's personality imprint...

Modifié par o Ventus, 25 juillet 2012 - 08:55 .

[dreman9999]

o Ventus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

The tech is just nanites. everythting that happen with husk are just with the material in the body already. Husk like the on in destory are easilly killed. In ME2,, they are shown to easilly fall to peices. In ME3 , It's showm to easily have gaping  holes in them. A shingl puch can kill a husk. Yet your tell me a husk has a stable form?

1. Go and take a typing class.

2. You know how many nanites would be required to replace every single organ, tissue, and fluid in a human body, let alone every single organic that the Reapers turn into husks (instantaneously, no less)? Unless it's stated somewhere, I don't think the nanites are the tech themselves.

3. They only fall to pieces if you hit them with a very high-powered weapon (see: Phalanx or Carnifex or shotguns). Also mind that I said that the organs and tissues are extracted, replaced by tech, right? Unless that tech is made of talc, it shouldn't be weaker than the human skeletal structure.

4. "single punch" is dictated by gameplay mechanics, so nice irrelevant point there.

5. If husks didn't have a stable form, how would they, I dunno... Exist?

2.Read ME:retribution and you find that it is the nanites alone that does this.
3.They fall to peices if yoy hit them. Remeber they instatly died with just a shock wave blast in ME2.They are fragil.
4.Point t me to any cut scene that they are shown to be able to take alot of damage.
5.Because the nanites sustine and repair them. If the nanites are gone, nothing is keeping them together

[dreman9999]

o Ventus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Do you understand  catalyst every reaper at once?

I would, if this post was legible.

Let me make it clear for you the catalyst is every reaper at once. It, as it says it, is the enbodyment of the collective intelligence of every reaper.
To fully repalce the catalyst every reaper has to be rewritten.

Or you could jsut replace the core programming of the Catalyst with Shepard's personality imprint...

They still have to send the new programing to the reapers. It's the concept of updating networked computers.

Modifié par dreman9999, 25 juillet 2012 - 09:03 .

[Enhanced]

CronoDragoon wrote...

What I am saying is that the #1 reason that Destroy and Control ARE different (and we agree they are, yeah?) is because of what I said above. In other words, at what point in planning out the endings did BioWare decide that Destroy would target all synthetics instead of just Reapers (like Control)? I posit that it was when they realized that everyone would just make a sharp right once the Catalyst's BS was through.

The purpose of the Reapers is to prevent synthetics from eventuallly killing all organics in the galaxy (as the Catalyst explains). Each option is meant to be a solution to this problem. So, that's why the Destroy beam's main targets are synthetics, not Reapers.

Modifié par Enhanced, 25 juillet 2012 - 09:03 .

[Galenwolf]

The Destroy ending was a pile of rubbish. I'm sorry but if you're going to destroy all synthetics then you need to remove all research, and block any knowledge being recovered.

As it stands any race could pump out an EDI 2.0 the VERY NEXT DAY.

Destroying anything other than the reapers is the catalyst throwing a hissy fit like a little child.

[dreman9999]

Enhanced wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

What I am saying is that the #1 reason that Destroy and Control ARE different (and we agree they are, yeah?) is because of what I said above. In other words, at what point in planning out the endings did BioWare decide that Destroy would target all synthetics instead of just Reapers (like Control)? I posit that it was when they realized that everyone would just make a sharp right once the Catalyst's BS was through.

The purpose of the Reapers is to prevent synthetics from eventuallly killing all organics in the galaxy (as the Catalyst explains). Each option is meant to be a solution to this problem. So, that's why the destroy beam's main targets are synthetics, not Reapers.

No the perpose of the reaper is to bring organic and sythetic to peace with one another.

[o Ventus]

dreman9999 wrote...

2.Read ME:retribution and you find that it is the nanites alone that does this.

I don't have the book. Point it out for me.

3.They fall to peices if yoy hit them. Remeber they instatly died with just a shock wave blast in ME2.They are fragil.

Cool. I never said they were made out of titanium or the like.

4.Point t me to any cut scene that they are shown to be able to take alot of damage.

Cutscenes? You mean like those same cutscenes where Jack can force push 2 YMIR mechs in ME2 and 1-hit kill them both? Or the cutscene where Thane drops down onto Nassana's guards and snaps all of their necks over the course of around 6 seconds? 

5.Because the nanites sustine and repair them. If the nanites are gone, nothing is keeping them together

If this were the case, then why bother making husks from organics? Why in the f**k not just make robots? IF you're going to bother making troops from the inherently inferior organics, then you're wasting resources when you have a very apparent and feasible alternative that yields better results. 

Modifié par o Ventus, 25 juillet 2012 - 09:09 .

[TMA LIVE]

I think all Synthetic life get destroyed because that's what the Catalyst wants.

While AI Shepard doesn't take control of the Geth because it doesn't want to. Simple.

Destroy doesn't involve an AI deciding what it does and doesn't destroy. Or if it does, it's the Catalyst.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 25 juillet 2012 - 09:08 .

[o Ventus]

dreman9999 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Do you understand  catalyst every reaper at once?

I would, if this post was legible.

Let me make it clear for you the catalyst is every reaper at once. It, as it says it, is the enbodyment of the collective intelligence of every reaper.
To fully repalce the catalyst every reaper has to be rewritten.

Or you could jsut replace the core programming of the Catalyst with Shepard's personality imprint...

They still have to send the new programing to the reapers. It's the concept of updating networked computers.

The Catalyst controls the Reapers. 

If Shepard takes the Catalyst's position, Shepard then logically has control of the Reapers. There's no indication or implication that each Reaper needs to be "reprogrammed". 

Really, just stop. You are possibly one of the worst people to debate with (not something I say lightly).

[dreman9999]

Galenwolf wrote...

The Destroy ending was a pile of rubbish. I'm sorry but if you're going to destroy all synthetics then you need to remove all research, and block any knowledge being recovered.

As it stands any race could pump out an EDI 2.0 the VERY NEXT DAY.

Destroying anything other than the reapers is the catalyst throwing a hissy fit like a little child.

Then you not getting it. Destroy does not mean it destories AI's for ever or that they can't be restored.
Added the catalist has no control over what the crucible does out side of synthesis. It's not he who controls what it does or designates what it does. The beings that designates what it does is the past race that designed it.

[Galenwolf]

Enhanced wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

What I am saying is that the #1 reason that Destroy and Control ARE different (and we agree they are, yeah?) is because of what I said above. In other words, at what point in planning out the endings did BioWare decide that Destroy would target all synthetics instead of just Reapers (like Control)? I posit that it was when they realized that everyone would just make a sharp right once the Catalyst's BS was through.

The purpose of the Reapers is to prevent synthetics from eventuallly killing all organics in the galaxy (as the Catalyst explains). Each option is meant to be a solution to this problem. So, that's why the Destroy beam's main targets are synthetics, not Reapers.

Even that doesn't make sense.  If you want to stop synthetics, you destroy the synthetics and then warn the current races what happened in the past.

What you do not do, is kill the organics.

Its like stopping the spread of cancer in a patient by putting a bullet in the patients brain.

[Kildin_of_the_Volus]

To the OPs question:

Cause all the options are centered around glowboy's bull**** assertion that synthetics will destroy all organics.  Assuming this is true (false assumption) glowboy then tailors all the options around this assertion.

Destroy
- glowboy purposely targets all synthetics to delay the "inevitable" organic extinction, thus robbing Shepard, and by extension the player, of total victory over the reapers.

Control - glowboy gets Shepard to commit suicide to replace itself as an AI with "the real Shepard's morals."  This leaves the reapers with a new puppetmaster that is now an AI being subjucted to who knows what kind of code.  If glowboy couldn't see the flaw in his bat**** crazy logic, who's to say Shepard won't end up the same way and start the cycles again?  Again, this option serves to furthur glowboy's agenda.

Synthesis - glowboy states that they've tried synthesis before but it didn't work.  For some reason all organics are now ready and all Shepard has to do is commit suicide by jumping into a beam of energy.  Ignoring this bizzare activation method, this results in organics "fully integrating with technology" so synthetics "can understand them."  It isn't said or shown what happens to glowboy after this, but I can just imagine a stupid smile on his face as all organics throughout the galaxy get changed to fit into it's perfect solution to it's "problem."

In other words, glowboy has it's glowiy little hand in every option and Shepard suddenely loses his ability of finding his own solution.  And we have Mac Walters and Casey Hudson to thank for these contrived "choices."

Modifié par Kildin_of_the_Volus, 25 juillet 2012 - 09:39 .