I took on this solo project just recently. I will be updating as I go. Please let me know what you think!
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Mass Effect mod for Dungeons and Dragons 4e
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Texxaport
, juil. 26 2012 12:19
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#3
Posté 26 juillet 2012 - 12:51
Texxaport
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Poverty often comes with being a vorcha. Poverty leads to living on the streets. Living on the streets leads to +2 Streetwise?
#4
Posté 26 juillet 2012 - 01:52
Arturia Pendragon
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Your species/racial bonuses are all positive; this will lead to an extremely high power gaming experience that will be tough to GM. I would suggest you balance them out with a few negatives...
For instance, racial stat bonuses are generally summed to zero. That is to say, if a species/race gets +1 Strength, they'll get -1 to something else. Specific examples: Vorcha, Volus, and Batarians should have a rather hefty -CHA; no one likes them. Geth should have a rather large -WIS and/or CHA; they're intelligent, but not very creative and have a sizable social stigma to overcome. Asari, Salarians, and Quarians should have large -STR and/or -CON modifiers; they're physically weak, relying on their INT, WIS, CHA, and/or DEX to get through life. Krogan should have large -INT, WIS, and/or CHA values; they're physical powerhouses, but extremely stupid, prone to rage, and socially inept.
This balancing act should also play into racial/species abilities. For instance, Geth are immune to hunger/dehydration and have reduced sleep requirements, so they should have something they're weak to in trade; like, they take double damage from lightning attacks or something.
But that's just my 2¢.
For instance, racial stat bonuses are generally summed to zero. That is to say, if a species/race gets +1 Strength, they'll get -1 to something else. Specific examples: Vorcha, Volus, and Batarians should have a rather hefty -CHA; no one likes them. Geth should have a rather large -WIS and/or CHA; they're intelligent, but not very creative and have a sizable social stigma to overcome. Asari, Salarians, and Quarians should have large -STR and/or -CON modifiers; they're physically weak, relying on their INT, WIS, CHA, and/or DEX to get through life. Krogan should have large -INT, WIS, and/or CHA values; they're physical powerhouses, but extremely stupid, prone to rage, and socially inept.
This balancing act should also play into racial/species abilities. For instance, Geth are immune to hunger/dehydration and have reduced sleep requirements, so they should have something they're weak to in trade; like, they take double damage from lightning attacks or something.
But that's just my 2¢.
Modifié par Arturia Pendragon, 26 juillet 2012 - 02:03 .
#5
Posté 26 juillet 2012 - 02:03
LinksOcarina
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I'll be honest...I think the d20 ruleset is not a good way to work it for Mass Effect, especially considering most combat will be done through ranged and power damage via range.
One system I would use is the cardinal system, its lesser known, (I found it in the 2nd versions of the Ironclaw/Jadeclaw games by Sanguine Games) but it allows a lot more customization without worrying about core weaknesses. It also makes adaptation a lot simpler since it pretty much boils stuff down to simple modifiers based on the physical number of dice, over numbers of combined dice.
This is what I am talking about, the basic rules of the cardinal system.
Basically, there are 3 things you need to worry about. Traits, Skills, and Gifts.
Traits are 6 aspects each character has. Body, Speed, Will, Mind, Career (I.E, class) and Species, in the case for aliens. You assign a number to each of these for your characters, a d4, 3 d6, and 2 d8 to each trait. Everything goes up to a d12 in intervals of 2, from d4-d12. if you go over it, you start back at d4. See, dice are always separate in the cardinal system.
Skills are 15 different, well, skills you can customize per character. They are as follows (modified for Mass Effect)
Academics (how literate, knowledgable you are)
Athletics (how athletic you are)
Craft (Making items/modding items)
Deceit (lying)
Endurance (how durable you can be from running, jumping, moving long distances)
Evasion (dodging attacks)
Fighting (hand to hand/melee combat)
Investigation (for asking questions, inquiring information)
Negotiation (for negotiating)
Observation (for seeing things/searching for things)
Presence (can be used to distract or intimidate people, even charm them)
Shooting (shooting guns)
Tactics (working with allies)
Tech (how tech savvy you can, or how you can spot tech)
Vehicles (driving ships or craft)
The last part is gifts, which is basically special abilities and bonuses that augment the skills. For example, a gift like say, Shotgun Combat would give you an extra +1 damage when using shotguns. We also have gifts like ettiquite, which is a bonus when talking with politicians, or streetwise, which is a bonus when talking with criminals. Other gifts can be seemingly superfluous, but are really helpful in a situation. Carousing or gambling is a bonus when you are drinking or gambling, for example. So the gifts run a gamut of combat and social.
Some gifts you also need a prerequisite to grab. So like, improved shotgun combat, you need shotgun combat of course. Or maybe you get the gift of giant, which makes you huge, if you have a body of at least a d10.
Now, normally, a charater would choose a class and a race. For arguments sake, lets say you want to make a Krogan Mercenary. All races get 3 racial skills, and 3 racial gifts. So, say a Krogan would get something as follows:
Skills: Endurance, Athletics, Presence
Gifts: Increasted Trait: Body, Frightening (d12 when scaring/intimidating people), brawling combat (+1 damage when using your fists/gauntlets/knuckles)
So each Krogan character starts with these gifts and skills. So if you build a Krogan as follows:
Body: d8
Speed: d6
Mind: d4
Will: d6
Career: d6
Species: d8
The increased trait automatically makes your Body score go to a d10,so you start with a d10 in your traits.
Now, each of these skills is as high as your species die, so Endurance, Athletics and Presence each get an automatic d8 for our Krogan here.
next, the Career, or character class which is seperate. Say you want a Merc, well maybe their rundown is the following:
Mercenary
Career skills: Evasion, Fighting, Shooting
Career Gifts: Haggling (10% off at shops), Resolve (damage soak bonus), Veteran (aim bonus)
So since your career die is a d6, you get an automatic d6 in your evasions, fighting, and shooting skills.
Now, you get an adittional 13 marks for skills, and you can put them in any category, up to 3 marks per category. 1 mark is a d4, 2 marks a d6, and so on. Once you hit d12, you start over again, so a sixth mark is another d4.
so our Merc here, we can assign say 3 more marks to shooting, 2 marks to fighting, 2 marks to presence, 2 marks to investigation, 3 marks to observation, and one mark to evasion, lets say.
Finally, you get to pick 3 more gifts. Because these need to be tailored towards Mass Effect, i'm just going to pick 3 from a modified version of the Ironclaw game. Overconfidence (d12 die that you can declare before any action against an NPC, but your opponent gets a d12 back) Tracking, (d12 to following people/trails) and Toughness (re-roll your soak die if hit.)
So in the end, our character would look like this
Krogan Mercenary
Body: d10, Speed: d6, Mind: d4, Will: d5, Career: d6, Species: d8
Skills
Athletics: d8
Endurance: d8
Evasion: d4, d6
Fighting: d6, d6
Investigation: d6
Observation, d8
Presence: d6, d8
Shooting, d8, d6
Gifts
IT: Body
Brawling Combat
Frightening
Haggling
Resolve
Vetran
Toughness
Tracking
Overconfidence
So basically, that is character creation. As for using die, it is dependent on the situation. If you are tracking a guy, you may need to roll say speed, mind, observation, and bonus for tracking. so your roll would be a d6, d4, d8, and a d12. A d6 and d4 based on traits, d8 because of skill, and d12 because of the tracking bonus. You roll each seprately and basically count successes. More successes equal more likely you will track someone.
Works in combat too. shooting a guy with a shotgun would be say body, speed, and shooting, while a pistol may be just speed and shooting. Advanced rules can come into this too of couse but keeping it simple basically would be that at point blank. You can also tap your overconfidence and throw that in too.
So say in a combat situation your fighting a guy with a pistol, but hes a good shot. An unaimed shot with a shotgun with our Krogan would be d10, d6, d6, d8, and d12 with overconfidence thrown in. Your opponent with a pistol rolls his speed and shooting dice, plus overconfidence too, so say d8, d8 d12. The winner is whoever gets the higher numbers, so if your highest is a 9, and his is a 6, you win and hit him for damage.
It is a little more complicated honestly and to map it out I would have to explain more, like extra combat rules and what not. But I think the system might be more effective...in fact I might just adopt it myself.
One system I would use is the cardinal system, its lesser known, (I found it in the 2nd versions of the Ironclaw/Jadeclaw games by Sanguine Games) but it allows a lot more customization without worrying about core weaknesses. It also makes adaptation a lot simpler since it pretty much boils stuff down to simple modifiers based on the physical number of dice, over numbers of combined dice.
This is what I am talking about, the basic rules of the cardinal system.
Basically, there are 3 things you need to worry about. Traits, Skills, and Gifts.
Traits are 6 aspects each character has. Body, Speed, Will, Mind, Career (I.E, class) and Species, in the case for aliens. You assign a number to each of these for your characters, a d4, 3 d6, and 2 d8 to each trait. Everything goes up to a d12 in intervals of 2, from d4-d12. if you go over it, you start back at d4. See, dice are always separate in the cardinal system.
Skills are 15 different, well, skills you can customize per character. They are as follows (modified for Mass Effect)
Academics (how literate, knowledgable you are)
Athletics (how athletic you are)
Craft (Making items/modding items)
Deceit (lying)
Endurance (how durable you can be from running, jumping, moving long distances)
Evasion (dodging attacks)
Fighting (hand to hand/melee combat)
Investigation (for asking questions, inquiring information)
Negotiation (for negotiating)
Observation (for seeing things/searching for things)
Presence (can be used to distract or intimidate people, even charm them)
Shooting (shooting guns)
Tactics (working with allies)
Tech (how tech savvy you can, or how you can spot tech)
Vehicles (driving ships or craft)
The last part is gifts, which is basically special abilities and bonuses that augment the skills. For example, a gift like say, Shotgun Combat would give you an extra +1 damage when using shotguns. We also have gifts like ettiquite, which is a bonus when talking with politicians, or streetwise, which is a bonus when talking with criminals. Other gifts can be seemingly superfluous, but are really helpful in a situation. Carousing or gambling is a bonus when you are drinking or gambling, for example. So the gifts run a gamut of combat and social.
Some gifts you also need a prerequisite to grab. So like, improved shotgun combat, you need shotgun combat of course. Or maybe you get the gift of giant, which makes you huge, if you have a body of at least a d10.
Now, normally, a charater would choose a class and a race. For arguments sake, lets say you want to make a Krogan Mercenary. All races get 3 racial skills, and 3 racial gifts. So, say a Krogan would get something as follows:
Skills: Endurance, Athletics, Presence
Gifts: Increasted Trait: Body, Frightening (d12 when scaring/intimidating people), brawling combat (+1 damage when using your fists/gauntlets/knuckles)
So each Krogan character starts with these gifts and skills. So if you build a Krogan as follows:
Body: d8
Speed: d6
Mind: d4
Will: d6
Career: d6
Species: d8
The increased trait automatically makes your Body score go to a d10,so you start with a d10 in your traits.
Now, each of these skills is as high as your species die, so Endurance, Athletics and Presence each get an automatic d8 for our Krogan here.
next, the Career, or character class which is seperate. Say you want a Merc, well maybe their rundown is the following:
Mercenary
Career skills: Evasion, Fighting, Shooting
Career Gifts: Haggling (10% off at shops), Resolve (damage soak bonus), Veteran (aim bonus)
So since your career die is a d6, you get an automatic d6 in your evasions, fighting, and shooting skills.
Now, you get an adittional 13 marks for skills, and you can put them in any category, up to 3 marks per category. 1 mark is a d4, 2 marks a d6, and so on. Once you hit d12, you start over again, so a sixth mark is another d4.
so our Merc here, we can assign say 3 more marks to shooting, 2 marks to fighting, 2 marks to presence, 2 marks to investigation, 3 marks to observation, and one mark to evasion, lets say.
Finally, you get to pick 3 more gifts. Because these need to be tailored towards Mass Effect, i'm just going to pick 3 from a modified version of the Ironclaw game. Overconfidence (d12 die that you can declare before any action against an NPC, but your opponent gets a d12 back) Tracking, (d12 to following people/trails) and Toughness (re-roll your soak die if hit.)
So in the end, our character would look like this
Krogan Mercenary
Body: d10, Speed: d6, Mind: d4, Will: d5, Career: d6, Species: d8
Skills
Athletics: d8
Endurance: d8
Evasion: d4, d6
Fighting: d6, d6
Investigation: d6
Observation, d8
Presence: d6, d8
Shooting, d8, d6
Gifts
IT: Body
Brawling Combat
Frightening
Haggling
Resolve
Vetran
Toughness
Tracking
Overconfidence
So basically, that is character creation. As for using die, it is dependent on the situation. If you are tracking a guy, you may need to roll say speed, mind, observation, and bonus for tracking. so your roll would be a d6, d4, d8, and a d12. A d6 and d4 based on traits, d8 because of skill, and d12 because of the tracking bonus. You roll each seprately and basically count successes. More successes equal more likely you will track someone.
Works in combat too. shooting a guy with a shotgun would be say body, speed, and shooting, while a pistol may be just speed and shooting. Advanced rules can come into this too of couse but keeping it simple basically would be that at point blank. You can also tap your overconfidence and throw that in too.
So say in a combat situation your fighting a guy with a pistol, but hes a good shot. An unaimed shot with a shotgun with our Krogan would be d10, d6, d6, d8, and d12 with overconfidence thrown in. Your opponent with a pistol rolls his speed and shooting dice, plus overconfidence too, so say d8, d8 d12. The winner is whoever gets the higher numbers, so if your highest is a 9, and his is a 6, you win and hit him for damage.
It is a little more complicated honestly and to map it out I would have to explain more, like extra combat rules and what not. But I think the system might be more effective...in fact I might just adopt it myself.
Modifié par LinksOcarina, 26 juillet 2012 - 02:53 .
#6
Posté 26 juillet 2012 - 03:51
Texxaport
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Re: Arturia
I understand where you're coming from and personally considered doing this which made me question why 4e doesn't do it for any of their source material. If you look at all the races in the official books, they only have positive ability bonuses for races.
For the life of me, I cannot come up with a reason NOT to include negative values, however I've run dozens of sessions with standard 4e rules (all positives) and it works fairly well for my group.
If I was making a system from scratch or working with players who were more flexible with rules, I would consider changing it, however at the moment my philosophy is going to be, "If it's not broken, don't fix it."
Thanks for the comment though!
I understand where you're coming from and personally considered doing this which made me question why 4e doesn't do it for any of their source material. If you look at all the races in the official books, they only have positive ability bonuses for races.
For the life of me, I cannot come up with a reason NOT to include negative values, however I've run dozens of sessions with standard 4e rules (all positives) and it works fairly well for my group.
If I was making a system from scratch or working with players who were more flexible with rules, I would consider changing it, however at the moment my philosophy is going to be, "If it's not broken, don't fix it."
Thanks for the comment though!
#7
Posté 26 juillet 2012 - 03:55
Texxaport
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Re: LinksOcarina
I agree with you. The 4e system is not the best for the mass effect universe. I originally considered adapting some rules from Gamma World for the firearms but then decided against it for continuity's sake with my group. I have never heard of your system before but after reading through it a few times I think it would work better and would be willing to try it.
The problem with that lies in my typical playing group. Many are not what you might consider "power gamers" and would not really care about different systems as long as they could play in the mass effect universe and make it reasonably fun. In addition to that, I suspect many would not like to learn a new set of rules.
We tested 5e a few weeks back and the response was something along the lines of, "CHANGE IS BAD".
For my own reasons I will still look into your system. Thanks!
I agree with you. The 4e system is not the best for the mass effect universe. I originally considered adapting some rules from Gamma World for the firearms but then decided against it for continuity's sake with my group. I have never heard of your system before but after reading through it a few times I think it would work better and would be willing to try it.
The problem with that lies in my typical playing group. Many are not what you might consider "power gamers" and would not really care about different systems as long as they could play in the mass effect universe and make it reasonably fun. In addition to that, I suspect many would not like to learn a new set of rules.
We tested 5e a few weeks back and the response was something along the lines of, "CHANGE IS BAD".
For my own reasons I will still look into your system. Thanks!
#8
Posté 26 juillet 2012 - 04:09
Texxaport
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Re: Arturia
On second thought, I decided why negative racial bonuses would probably be detrimental to gameplay (at least with my group).
Let's say you're playing a vorcha with a negative bonus to cha or something like that. You're probably not going to be playing a class that relies heavily on charisma.
With the current system, the lowest you can possibly have your ability score at level 1 is 8 which gives you a modifier of -1.
If I was to give the vorcha a -2 to charisma, that stat might be 6 now. You've got a -2 modifier. Sure you've probably got a stat that's boosted due to the charisma deficiency, but all the DCs and monsters already made for 4e assume you'll have a certain maximum on your high stat for the level and a certain minimum on your low stat for the level.
If I suddenly make those minimums lower and those maximums higher, then characters will succeed more when using their main ability (which they should be using almost all the time in combat) which means the fights would be easier (if I gave them enemies meant for their level) and they would be punished even more for trying something their character isn't good at.
I generally try to avoid punishing to that degree especially because I like to see players come out of their comfort zones. I think it should be more than, "I'm a vorcha, I can't bluff, I will never do that". I like characters to be versatile. I want to see that vorcha try to bluff if the player gets a good idea. I want to encourage that creativity in my players and don't want to punish them more than necessary for ability scores.
TLDR; Would need to change enemies and Skill DCs to accommodate negative racial bonuses. I understand your opinion and originally supported it, but now I understand why I can't change these racial bonuses.
On second thought, I decided why negative racial bonuses would probably be detrimental to gameplay (at least with my group).
Let's say you're playing a vorcha with a negative bonus to cha or something like that. You're probably not going to be playing a class that relies heavily on charisma.
With the current system, the lowest you can possibly have your ability score at level 1 is 8 which gives you a modifier of -1.
If I was to give the vorcha a -2 to charisma, that stat might be 6 now. You've got a -2 modifier. Sure you've probably got a stat that's boosted due to the charisma deficiency, but all the DCs and monsters already made for 4e assume you'll have a certain maximum on your high stat for the level and a certain minimum on your low stat for the level.
If I suddenly make those minimums lower and those maximums higher, then characters will succeed more when using their main ability (which they should be using almost all the time in combat) which means the fights would be easier (if I gave them enemies meant for their level) and they would be punished even more for trying something their character isn't good at.
I generally try to avoid punishing to that degree especially because I like to see players come out of their comfort zones. I think it should be more than, "I'm a vorcha, I can't bluff, I will never do that". I like characters to be versatile. I want to see that vorcha try to bluff if the player gets a good idea. I want to encourage that creativity in my players and don't want to punish them more than necessary for ability scores.
TLDR; Would need to change enemies and Skill DCs to accommodate negative racial bonuses. I understand your opinion and originally supported it, but now I understand why I can't change these racial bonuses.
#9
Posté 26 juillet 2012 - 04:19
Fauxnormal
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Texxaport wrote...
Re: Arturia
If I suddenly make those minimums lower and those maximums higher, then characters will succeed more when using their main ability (which they should be using almost all the time in combat) which means the fights would be easier (if I gave them enemies meant for their level) and they would be punished even more for trying something their character isn't good at.
I generally try to avoid punishing to that degree especially because I like to see players come out of their comfort zones. I think it should be more than, "I'm a vorcha, I can't bluff, I will never do that". I like characters to be versatile. I want to see that vorcha try to bluff if the player gets a good idea. I want to encourage that creativity in my players and don't want to punish them more than necessary for ability scores.
Just on this note; I play D&D tabletop 3.5, so not what you're doing technically based or even rules based, though close. But our DM does give us negatives and things our characters blow at and encourages us to try them anyway. Primarily he doesn't rely simply on the outcome of the numbers system. And if anything, this pushes us to be far MORE creative, finding ways around the things we're weak in and forcing us to work as a team.
#10
Posté 26 juillet 2012 - 04:27
Texxaport
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Re: Fauxnormal
If many people are saying to do it it's worth a shot. What you're saying does make sense. I'll be running playtests after it's all complete anyway. I'll probably test with both just to see what works best.
Thanks for the contribution!
If many people are saying to do it it's worth a shot. What you're saying does make sense. I'll be running playtests after it's all complete anyway. I'll probably test with both just to see what works best.
Thanks for the contribution!
#11
Posté 26 juillet 2012 - 09:12
Kidd
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Great initiative! Reading through it all atm and loving it! Some great ideas in here. Hope you won't mind me giving feedback on some things, though ^^
Human:
Alliance Squad Training gives +1 to AC instead of +1 to all the defences. Is this as intended? Haven't number crunched any but it stands out to me.
Turian:
Eage Eye is nice but will essentially not hurt more than a rogue sneak attack, yet it only works on critical hits.
Metallic Carapace might grant additional healing surges to further drive the point home and up the turian efficiency?
Are turians really that dextrous? For all that talk about flexibility, turians can't even roll =) I'd advice switching +2 Dex to +2 Int. That way the class has a natural affinity for tech powers and you can still keep your bonus to their Reflex defence.
Krogan:
240 vision might not be incredibly useful in a setting which strongly encourages ranged combat. Moreover, I believe it would be a general pain to keep track of how combat advantage differs in this one situation. If you want to keep this ability, I'd ask you to drop them granting combat advantage when flanked all together and if the race ends up too powerful, nerf something else. I doubt flanking will be a common sight in these games any way.
Volus:
Financial Expertise could be recreated as a Personal Encounter power, giving an immediate +10 power bonus to Diplomacy or Bluff when bartering. Generally feels more in line with 4E lingo, I feel =)
Geth:
Seems generally underpowered. Since Reboot removes an entire turn for them if used, there's a high risk they'll just end up on the ground again before they get to move any way. Consider changing Reboot to an encounter power.
Batarian:
Double Take should be labelled At-Will Free Action. I pretty much know that's what you meant, just pointing it out
Are batarians dexterous? I'd change out dexterity for something else. Wisdom seems fitting considering their societal structure.
Asari:
First of all, shouldn't asari have a bonus to Charisma? =) To me that seems like the most obvious bonus they would have. Perhaps +2 Cha +2 Wis? It is generally my opinion that biotics should work off Charisma, as well. Or possibly, Constitution considering how draining they are and the concentration required. Perhaps you'd always use the score you're better with, similar to how warlocks function? Just some ideas =)
I'd also consider switching out Biotic Renew for something more fitting with how biotics work in ME. An aerial push that puts enemies off guard and makes them grant combat advantage to all allies, maybe? Generally though, if you want to keep the healing, I'd recommend using healing surges as a base instead of dice, whether the caster, recipient or any one spends a healing surge to activate the effect at all.
Vorcha:
Seems underpowered. Not sure what to do with it. Work your magic =D
On the discussion of positive stat bonuses with no negatives;
From what I remember of the original marketing talk of 4E, the idea to not include negatives for races comes from two factors.
First, it allows for more character concepts without ruining their mechanic capability. If your class depends largely on, say, Dex, you will benefit greatly from picking a Dex race. Since you won't have to match which race gives the least damaging negative you've a lot more freedom in your racial choice. Diversity is inherently a good thing.
The second idea would be simple. Your character is exceptional and heroic any way, and a -2 could make you hit 6 in one of your scores on the standard array. It's not believable a truly heroic character would have a 6 in anything.
Balance-wise, it doesn't matter. If every race is designed this way, then none of them will be above the others. Taste-wise? Subjective =)
EDIT: If it wasn't obvious, I quite enjoy 4E ^^; Just wish the battles didn't drag on forever. That's one of my few dislikes about it.
Human:
Alliance Squad Training gives +1 to AC instead of +1 to all the defences. Is this as intended? Haven't number crunched any but it stands out to me.
Turian:
Eage Eye is nice but will essentially not hurt more than a rogue sneak attack, yet it only works on critical hits.
Metallic Carapace might grant additional healing surges to further drive the point home and up the turian efficiency?
Are turians really that dextrous? For all that talk about flexibility, turians can't even roll =) I'd advice switching +2 Dex to +2 Int. That way the class has a natural affinity for tech powers and you can still keep your bonus to their Reflex defence.
Krogan:
240 vision might not be incredibly useful in a setting which strongly encourages ranged combat. Moreover, I believe it would be a general pain to keep track of how combat advantage differs in this one situation. If you want to keep this ability, I'd ask you to drop them granting combat advantage when flanked all together and if the race ends up too powerful, nerf something else. I doubt flanking will be a common sight in these games any way.
Volus:
Financial Expertise could be recreated as a Personal Encounter power, giving an immediate +10 power bonus to Diplomacy or Bluff when bartering. Generally feels more in line with 4E lingo, I feel =)
Geth:
Seems generally underpowered. Since Reboot removes an entire turn for them if used, there's a high risk they'll just end up on the ground again before they get to move any way. Consider changing Reboot to an encounter power.
Batarian:
Double Take should be labelled At-Will Free Action. I pretty much know that's what you meant, just pointing it out
Are batarians dexterous? I'd change out dexterity for something else. Wisdom seems fitting considering their societal structure.
Asari:
First of all, shouldn't asari have a bonus to Charisma? =) To me that seems like the most obvious bonus they would have. Perhaps +2 Cha +2 Wis? It is generally my opinion that biotics should work off Charisma, as well. Or possibly, Constitution considering how draining they are and the concentration required. Perhaps you'd always use the score you're better with, similar to how warlocks function? Just some ideas =)
I'd also consider switching out Biotic Renew for something more fitting with how biotics work in ME. An aerial push that puts enemies off guard and makes them grant combat advantage to all allies, maybe? Generally though, if you want to keep the healing, I'd recommend using healing surges as a base instead of dice, whether the caster, recipient or any one spends a healing surge to activate the effect at all.
Vorcha:
Seems underpowered. Not sure what to do with it. Work your magic =D
On the discussion of positive stat bonuses with no negatives;
From what I remember of the original marketing talk of 4E, the idea to not include negatives for races comes from two factors.
First, it allows for more character concepts without ruining their mechanic capability. If your class depends largely on, say, Dex, you will benefit greatly from picking a Dex race. Since you won't have to match which race gives the least damaging negative you've a lot more freedom in your racial choice. Diversity is inherently a good thing.
The second idea would be simple. Your character is exceptional and heroic any way, and a -2 could make you hit 6 in one of your scores on the standard array. It's not believable a truly heroic character would have a 6 in anything.
Balance-wise, it doesn't matter. If every race is designed this way, then none of them will be above the others. Taste-wise? Subjective =)
EDIT: If it wasn't obvious, I quite enjoy 4E ^^; Just wish the battles didn't drag on forever. That's one of my few dislikes about it.
Modifié par KiddDaBeauty, 26 juillet 2012 - 09:14 .
#12
Posté 26 juillet 2012 - 04:07
Texxaport
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Re: KiddDaBeauty
I agree with many of your suggested changes.
Humans: Changed it from AC to Fort and Reflex (giving them another Will would be too much I think).
Turian: On second glance, seemed a bit underpowered of a race in general. Changed the ability scores as you suggested, changed damage die of eagle eye to 2d4 instead of a d6. Considered adding healing surges for them but didn't want to tie it to a modifier... especially one of their stronger ones (str, int) because in 4e currently, dwarves have a feat that does that based on their con modifier which is downright amazing. It's not available until Epic tier though. Seemed too good to give them that right off the bat. Will give them static boost to surges.
Krogan: Regarding flanking, I actually want to see melee combat in this game. I'd like to see maybe 2 melee/close and 3 ranged characters in a group of 5. Regardless, did remove flanking bonus altogether because both their ability bonuses will influence Fort. Reflex and will will be lacking so decided krogan need the extra boost in defenses.
Volus: Implemented change to Encounter power. +10 seemed high though.
Geth: Considered your suggestion for Reboot. Decided to keep it as Daily, but made it so instead of taking no actions, they can take all but a standard action.
Batarian: Done.
Asari: Modified Biotic Renew, changed Asari to Charisma/Wisdom.
Vorcha: Added new Racial power.
Thanks for your input! Will see how these playtest.
I agree with many of your suggested changes.
Humans: Changed it from AC to Fort and Reflex (giving them another Will would be too much I think).
Turian: On second glance, seemed a bit underpowered of a race in general. Changed the ability scores as you suggested, changed damage die of eagle eye to 2d4 instead of a d6. Considered adding healing surges for them but didn't want to tie it to a modifier... especially one of their stronger ones (str, int) because in 4e currently, dwarves have a feat that does that based on their con modifier which is downright amazing. It's not available until Epic tier though. Seemed too good to give them that right off the bat. Will give them static boost to surges.
Krogan: Regarding flanking, I actually want to see melee combat in this game. I'd like to see maybe 2 melee/close and 3 ranged characters in a group of 5. Regardless, did remove flanking bonus altogether because both their ability bonuses will influence Fort. Reflex and will will be lacking so decided krogan need the extra boost in defenses.
Volus: Implemented change to Encounter power. +10 seemed high though.
Geth: Considered your suggestion for Reboot. Decided to keep it as Daily, but made it so instead of taking no actions, they can take all but a standard action.
Batarian: Done.
Asari: Modified Biotic Renew, changed Asari to Charisma/Wisdom.
Vorcha: Added new Racial power.
Thanks for your input! Will see how these playtest.
#13
Posté 26 juillet 2012 - 08:19
Kidd
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Indeed having another Will bonus on top for humans would be a tad much. Didn't realise there was an overlap. Good eye =)
The volus +10 diplomacy/bluff bonus shouldn't be all too heavy. I'm pretty sure that's the exact bonus amount bards can get with an early game utility spell. Since it's limited to only bartering and not general diplomacy like the bard's, it's a lot weaker any way. A +10 won't make any shop keepers hand out their wares for free any time soon, but it would probably end up with something similar to a 33% discount. Of course, how shop keepers work when charmed is one of those parts of the game that has always been up to every individual GM's interpretation =)
The geth having only a move and minor action could work, indeed. If they want to get up and running at full efficiency right away that turn they could always use up an action point for it, too.
The asari having their +2 Int changed to +2 Cha ends up with them losing a +1 attribute bonus to their defences - Cha and Wis both link to Will defence instead of the previous +1 to Will and Reflex(Int).
Love the new vorcha power!
Speaking of playtesting, you wouldn't happen to be playing online and feel the need of having one more player to test?
The volus +10 diplomacy/bluff bonus shouldn't be all too heavy. I'm pretty sure that's the exact bonus amount bards can get with an early game utility spell. Since it's limited to only bartering and not general diplomacy like the bard's, it's a lot weaker any way. A +10 won't make any shop keepers hand out their wares for free any time soon, but it would probably end up with something similar to a 33% discount. Of course, how shop keepers work when charmed is one of those parts of the game that has always been up to every individual GM's interpretation =)
The geth having only a move and minor action could work, indeed. If they want to get up and running at full efficiency right away that turn they could always use up an action point for it, too.
The asari having their +2 Int changed to +2 Cha ends up with them losing a +1 attribute bonus to their defences - Cha and Wis both link to Will defence instead of the previous +1 to Will and Reflex(Int).
Love the new vorcha power!
Speaking of playtesting, you wouldn't happen to be playing online and feel the need of having one more player to test?
#15
Posté 27 juillet 2012 - 09:43
Sevrun
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....
I don't think I recognize this thing D&D has become.
I don't think I recognize this thing D&D has become.
#16
Posté 27 juillet 2012 - 10:09
Sweawm
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You put every language down as Common. Since this is the ME Universe, which has translators, I guess it really isn't needed, but you shouldn't just mark everything down as 'common', since we see different languages throughout the Universe that don't get translations
(Geth Tech for one, isn't translated, with strange letters printed on scopes and such.)
I would have no idea about the others, maybe you can make up a few language names, but I'm pretty sure the language for Quarians and Geth is Keelish. This should effect the player's ability to observe details on certain things. Perhaps you can get a specialization to understand Prothean language for a bit more relevance to certain campaigns players may undertake?
PS: I believe weapons that are not manufactured for player's said race should be far less powerful. Take the Javelin for instance. Shepard can't even read what's on the scope because it's in Keelish, so he can't check range. Or the Spike Thrower or Claymore; which should be Krogan exclusive since their high kickback.
(Geth Tech for one, isn't translated, with strange letters printed on scopes and such.)
I would have no idea about the others, maybe you can make up a few language names, but I'm pretty sure the language for Quarians and Geth is Keelish. This should effect the player's ability to observe details on certain things. Perhaps you can get a specialization to understand Prothean language for a bit more relevance to certain campaigns players may undertake?
PS: I believe weapons that are not manufactured for player's said race should be far less powerful. Take the Javelin for instance. Shepard can't even read what's on the scope because it's in Keelish, so he can't check range. Or the Spike Thrower or Claymore; which should be Krogan exclusive since their high kickback.
#17
Posté 27 juillet 2012 - 10:58
Kidd
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Was that a jab at Texxaport's work, 4E or the idea of ME in D&D? It didn't sound nice either way.Sevrun wrote...
....
I don't think I recognize this thing D&D has become.
Keep us posted, Texxaport!
#18
Posté 27 juillet 2012 - 11:10
LinksOcarina
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Texxaport wrote...
Re: LinksOcarina
I agree with you. The 4e system is not the best for the mass effect universe. I originally considered adapting some rules from Gamma World for the firearms but then decided against it for continuity's sake with my group. I have never heard of your system before but after reading through it a few times I think it would work better and would be willing to try it.
The problem with that lies in my typical playing group. Many are not what you might consider "power gamers" and would not really care about different systems as long as they could play in the mass effect universe and make it reasonably fun. In addition to that, I suspect many would not like to learn a new set of rules.
We tested 5e a few weeks back and the response was something along the lines of, "CHANGE IS BAD".
For my own reasons I will still look into your system. Thanks!
Actually, that is a good thing, although the change is bad stuff I can understand for a lot of people.
I did post a rather lengthy section on how combat works in the cardinal system and some possible ideas for how weapons can be used, I am still figuring out/tweaking ideas from the rules system to fit tech, biotics, careers and what have you, I might just make a working mod of this through that in the end anyway. Good luck finding a good system for mass effect dude.
#19
Posté 31 juillet 2012 - 03:42
Texxaport
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First class is up now.
As a side note... once I've done all the content, feel free to test it yourselves as you wish. I will be doing it with a couple different groups but it would be nice to see how DM styles other than my own work with it.
As a side note... once I've done all the content, feel free to test it yourselves as you wish. I will be doing it with a couple different groups but it would be nice to see how DM styles other than my own work with it.
