183 réponses à ce sujet

[Eckswhyzed]

Here's my contribution to the growing mass of threads talking about balancing:

If you don't want something to be nerfed, present some evidence it's not OP.

Statements like "balancing doesn't matter it's PVE" or "nerfers are just whiny cryers who got outscored" contribute nothing to balance discussion. If you accept that nerf threads cause nerfs, you must believe Bioware takes forum feedback into acount when balancing. And Bioware do care about balancing (see weekly changes), and I highly doubt that they will suddenly give up on trying to balance weapons just because of one forum post. So you can stop clogging threads with complaints about these supposed "nerfers" and try contributing something useful.

However, I do believe that the burden of proof lies on the "nerfer" to prove that a current weapon/power/class is overpowered as balance changes do require time and effort to be tested and implemented.

For example:
"Weapon X shouldn't be nerfed. It's not very good in situations X and Y, does less DPS than weapon A, and on top of that only the Hanar Spectre make it useful due to the Hanar weapon bonus. On everything else it's balanced."


That is the sort of comment that Bioware might listen to (if they do, which I'm not sure about).


TL;DR: fight nerfers with actual arguments instead of useless statements like "STFU nerfer". Rational arguments are our weakness, but we only grow stronger from tears and complaining

Modifié par Eckswhyzed, 03 août 2012 - 12:15 .

[corporal doody]

hmmm.

cheese is nice

[Grub Killer8016]

See, people like you kill pages upon pages of conversations that make the BSN alive.

[Master Xanthan]

I just don't see why people can't be happy with the dlc. I would prefer for the new guns to stay the same. I mean what's the point in new dlc if the weapons are gonna be nerfed into the ground? The krysae is now useless, and it would be a shame to see this happen to Earth dlc weapons as well.

[sobbos]

People place maxed out gear and equipment on a class, spec it out for weapon damage, THEN present 'evidence' it's OP. The gun on a different class, with no equipment, and no gear would be insanely under powered in comparison.

The people who want balance will never understand this concept because their kind only look at it maxed out and on classes that benefits from the combination.

Modifié par sobbos, 26 juillet 2012 - 01:11 .

[techslave33]

thats not how it works. burden of proof is ALWAYS on the plaintiff. we dont have to prove anything. the devs thought it was fine and put it in game. that is the proof, ok?

YOU prove how it is such a detriment to have someone with XYZ class weapon skill combo playing in your game. tell me how it is getting you killed because it is OP. YOU prove to the devs they were wrong and something is broken.

[Grub Killer8016]

Master Xanthan wrote...

I just don't see why people can't be happy with the dlc. I would prefer for the new guns to stay the same. I mean what's the point in new dlc if the weapons are gonna be nerfed into the ground? The krysae is now useless, and it would be a shame to see this happen to Earth dlc weapons as well.

Yep, even with the fact that most people that I know haven't gotten the new stuff yet.

[godlike13]

Attention "Nerfers", STFU!

[GreatBlueHeron]

OP, you're the ones making the claim that things should be nerfed, so the onus is on you.

[Muhkida]

I love how the OP is using conjecture.....so sly.

[Volatile Device]

Okay. The Piranha. Good ROF, good magazine size (8), fully automatic, good damage, light weight. Horrid accuracy, To really use this gun effectively, you must improve the accuracy. Smart Choke, any other options.

The problem with people calling for nerfs is that they see a weapon in combination with a certain class and power setup as overpowered, and then call the weapon itself overpowered. The truth is, it's very good with that setup and average with everything else.

The Krysae, for example, devastated in the hands of Infiltrators. In the hands of any other class, it really wasn't that good. I've seen many people use the Krysae with other classes and do alright, and I perform similar to that.

I use the Piranha with Damage and Accuracy mods on my N7 Destroyer. With Devastator Mode, specced Accuracy/Mag Size/Damage, with racial class fully specced for weapon damage, Fitness specced for Health/Shields, Armor-Piercing Rounds II, Shotgun Rail Amp II, Shotgun Amp V, and Stability Module II, I could bring myself to call the Piranha overpowered.

But on an Asari Adept? Not overpowered. Therefore, the weapon is overpowered in combination with certain classes, rather than "Overpowered, period."

I support balance, but I do not support nerfing a weapon simply because it's very good with some classes, as then, it would be OK with that class, and underpowered on other classes. That feels like taking one step forward, and then one step back again.

[Astartes Marine]

Eckswhyzed wrote...
For example:
"Weapon X shouldn't be nerfed. It's not very good in situations X and Y, does less DPS than weapon A, and on top of that only the Hanar Spectre make it useful due to the Hanar weapon bonus. On everything else it's balanced."

I would also add different difficulty levels to the mix.  Something can be fantastic and deadly on Silver/Bronze but be totally lackluster on Gold/Platinum.  Gotta figure all the variables into the discussion.

[godlike13]

Volatile Device wrote...

Okay. The Piranha. Good ROF, good magazine size (8), fully automatic, good damage, light weight. Horrid accuracy, To really use this gun effectively, you must improve the accuracy. Smart Choke, any other options.

The problem with people calling for nerfs is that they see a weapon in combination with a certain class and power setup as overpowered, and then call the weapon itself overpowered. The truth is, it's very good with that setup and average with everything else.

The Krysae, for example, devastated in the hands of Infiltrators. In the hands of any other class, it really wasn't that good. I've seen many people use the Krysae with other classes and do alright, and I perform similar to that.

I use the Piranha with Damage and Accuracy mods on my N7 Destroyer. With Devastator Mode, specced Accuracy/Mag Size/Damage, with racial class fully specced for weapon damage, Fitness specced for Health/Shields, Armor-Piercing Rounds II, Shotgun Rail Amp II, Shotgun Amp V, and Stability Module II, I could bring myself to call the Piranha overpowered.

But on an Asari Adept? Not overpowered. Therefore, the weapon is overpowered in combination with certain classes, rather than "Overpowered, period."

I support balance, but I do not support nerfing a weapon simply because it's very good with some classes, as then, it would be OK with that class, and underpowered on other classes. That feels like taking one step forward, and then one step back again.

[KentGoldings]

Unless you plan to actually nerf everything, It's the nerfing that needs to be justified. Some weapons are powerful. Over-powered is not a claim that can be justified without both game telemetry and designer's intent. Since people on the forum have neither, all of it is just conjecture. A claim is not proven by the lack of contrary evidence. And, there is only anecdotal evidence that any gun or class is indeed over-powered, under-powered or balanced.

Either way, who knows?

[bigkahuna077]

Volatile Device wrote...

Okay. The Piranha. Good ROF, good magazine size (8), fully automatic, good damage, light weight. Horrid accuracy, To really use this gun effectively, you must improve the accuracy. Smart Choke, any other options.

The problem with people calling for nerfs is that they see a weapon in combination with a certain class and power setup as overpowered, and then call the weapon itself overpowered. The truth is, it's very good with that setup and average with everything else.

The Krysae, for example, devastated in the hands of Infiltrators. In the hands of any other class, it really wasn't that good. I've seen many people use the Krysae with other classes and do alright, and I perform similar to that.

I use the Piranha with Damage and Accuracy mods on my N7 Destroyer. With Devastator Mode, specced Accuracy/Mag Size/Damage, with racial class fully specced for weapon damage, Fitness specced for Health/Shields, Armor-Piercing Rounds II, Shotgun Rail Amp II, Shotgun Amp V, and Stability Module II, I could bring myself to call the Piranha overpowered.

But on an Asari Adept? Not overpowered. Therefore, the weapon is overpowered in combination with certain classes, rather than "Overpowered, period."

I support balance, but I do not support nerfing a weapon simply because it's very good with some classes, as then, it would be OK with that class, and underpowered on other classes. That feels like taking one step forward, and then one step back again.

Perfect example sadly this is becoming ANOTHER title where the elitists are starting to get to decide what everyone else gets to do.

[E71]

godlike13 wrote...

Attention "Nerfers", STFU!

This.

[Adhok42]

godlike13 wrote...

Attention "Nerfers", STFU!

Agreed.

Screw off.

[Reapinger]

Adhok42 wrote...

godlike13 wrote...

Attention "Nerfers", STFU!

Agreed.

Screw off.

This. 

[Rifneno]

godlike13 wrote...

Attention "Nerfers", STFU!

+1

[lord_nair]

TC, with all due respect, stfu, thanks

[its THAT guy]

Reapinger wrote...

Adhok42 wrote...

godlike13 wrote...

Attention "Nerfers", STFU!

Agreed.

Screw off.

This. 

+1 for internet anti-nerfing justice

[Thoragoros]

Eckswhyzed wrote...

Here's my contribution to the growing mass of threads talking about balancing:

If you don't want something to be nerfed, present some evidence it's not OP.

Statements like "balancing doesn't matter it's PVE" or "nerfers are just whiny cryers who got outscored" contribute nothing to balance discussion. If you accept that nerf threads cause nerfs, you must believe Bioware takes forum feedback into acount when balancing. And Bioware do care about balancing (see weekly changes), and I highly doubt that they will suddenly give up on trying to balance weapons just because of one forum post. So you can stop clogging threads with complaints about these supposed "nerfers" and try contributing something useful.


For example:
"Weapon X shouldn't be nerfed. It's not very good in situations X and Y, does less DPS than weapon A, and on top of that only the Hanar Spectre make it useful due to the Hanar weapon bonus. On everything else it's balanced."


That is the sort of comment that Bioware might listen to (if they do, which I'm not sure about).

The problem with your suggestion is that most "Pro-Nerfers" usually use arguments similar to:

Nerfer 1: I hate the Typhoon!  What the heck am I supposed to do with my Avenger V that I've been using since day 1 when two people on the team have a damn Typhoon!

Nerfer 2:  All weapons should be totally equal in every situation!  Nerf the Carnifex!

Nerfer 3: I always top the scoreboard except when there's a damn (insert latest dlc class here) on the team!!  Not fair!

In other words, most people crying for nerfs, simply want to "slap" the weapons/classes they simply don't like, or feel outclass the weapons/class they prefer.

[Eckswhyzed]

GreatBlueHeron wrote...

OP, you're the ones making the claim that things should be nerfed, so the onus is on you.

So what did I want nerfed again? Oh right, I didn't mention anything in the OP.

I do find the one-line responses amusing though. I clearly overestimated BSN's capacity for rational argument...

[Gadgetmike]

Its a damn Co-op game... Nerfer's seriously...just stop being little Fing baby's because you didn't get the highest score. Play platinum with randoms if things get too easy.