183 réponses à ce sujet

[indy500fan]

I don't understand people's anger at a gun that is way over powered being balanced. If a gun is overpowered then everyone is just going to use it, if the guns are balanced then you will see more variety being used and it will be based on skill not stats.

If an OP gun gets nerfed and you feel bad you can't be god with it anymore, then just drop a difficulty level and you will get that back.

[InfamousResult]

I'd probably strain my "report" finger if I actually went through the three pages of this thread and read how many asinine insults there are. Instead, I'll just drop down to the same level as the majority of the posters here, and say:

"u gaiz just mad"

( this is, of course, directed to those who consider them "anti-nerf" )

Modifié par InfamousResult, 26 juillet 2012 - 06:27 .

[thebigb82]

I have to say the nerfing in this game as gone way beyond the joke, instead of using the dlc guns i have now gone back to pre-dlc weapons because the nerf kids have ruined the game, then they complain when we don't finish a platinum game.

Its a co-op game, the idea is survive with the best weapons to get the max xp and money, if you don't like a weapon, don't use it, stop complaining

[dehhellomijo]

Nerfers, With all due respect......

[Killahead]

Master Xanthan wrote...

Killahead wrote...

Eckswhyzed wrote...

GreatBlueHeron wrote...

OP, you're the ones making the claim that things should be nerfed, so the onus is on you.

So what did I want nerfed again? Oh right, I didn't mention anything in the OP.

I do find the one-line responses amusing though. I clearly overestimated BSN's capacity for rational argument...

This was your biggest mistake. Join the "balance all the things" group if you want a mature, civil discussion. That's where it's taking place now, and that's why so few players that care about balance bother to post in the forums anymore, too many trolls, too much stupidity.

Instead of insulting others, have you actually considered that people just like the game the way it is? (well except for the game breaking glitches). 

I don't consider pointing out that there's alot of stupidity in this and in other threads, an insult to anyone specific. Because posting a meme or "STFU!" is exactly that, stupidity. It's not even laziness, you are flaunting your complete unwillingness or incapability to participate in a discussion, and to me you are in fact saying less than nothing. (note: a general "you", of course, this is not directed towards you).

And of course I respect that others like the game the way it is, just like I expect to be respected for sometimes being of a different opinion.

Modifié par Killahead, 26 juillet 2012 - 06:37 .

[CitizenThom]

rmccowen wrote...

Xx_Belzak_xX wrote...

The best solution is, as I've said before, is to nerf the nerfers. Push them into oncoming traffic. Problem solved.

Reported.

Reported back at you.

p.s. not really, seems a little juvenille to report posts you don't likejust because you don't like them.

Modifié par CitizenThom, 26 juillet 2012 - 06:37 .

[Vhydra]

Aren't most of you guys overreacting, or just enjoy insulting people? OP said/meant that if someone thinks something is OP, or not, they should use rational arguments.

I'm not pro-nerf, or anti-nerf, myself. The Krysae was a bit insane, in my opinion, with the HUGE auto-aim, high damage and the (now fixed?) glitch that you could fire two shots in rapid succession. I did think it was fine after the first nerf, and the second one wasn't really needed. I also don't think the new guns need nerfs.

If anything, I'm pro-buff. Buff AR's. SMG's are fine with the new mods.

[InfamousResult]

thebigb82 wrote...

Its a co-op game, the idea is survive with the best weapons to get the max xp and money, if you don't like a weapon, don't use it, stop complaining

I am going to hand you a game that is basically an intro, then you pressing one button to win the game, and then the end. The point of the game was to get to the end, who cares if you only had to press one button to get to it, right?

Bioware staff themselves have said Nerfing is important to the co-op game.

They said that. About this game. It will happen.

If you don't like it, don't play it, stop complaining.

[upinya slayin]

Eckswhyzed wrote...

Here's my contribution to the growing mass of threads talking about balancing:

If you don't want something to be nerfed, present some evidence it's not OP.

Statements like "balancing doesn't matter it's PVE" or "nerfers are just whiny cryers who got outscored" contribute nothing to balance discussion. If you accept that nerf threads cause nerfs, you must believe Bioware takes forum feedback into acount when balancing. And Bioware do care about balancing (see weekly changes), and I highly doubt that they will suddenly give up on trying to balance weapons just because of one forum post. So you can stop clogging threads with complaints about these supposed "nerfers" and try contributing something useful.

However, I do believe that the burden of proof lies on the "nerfer" to prove that a current weapon/power/class is overpowered as balance changes do require time and effort to be tested and implemented.

For example:
"Weapon X shouldn't be nerfed. It's not very good in situations X and Y, does less DPS than weapon A, and on top of that only the Hanar Spectre make it useful due to the Hanar weapon bonus. On everything else it's balanced."


That is the sort of comment that Bioware might listen to (if they do, which I'm not sure about).


TL;DR: fight nerfers with actual arguments instead of useless statements like "STFU nerfer". Rational arguments are our weakness, but we only grow stronger from tears and complaining

the argument is simple

1) most people who call for nerfs play alot of bronze and silver. you cna't base a guns power on a low difficulty. It hsould be based on the damage it does on platinum and gold.

2) guns need to be able to compete with damage of powers. before alot of the new guns no soldier could compete with biotics. so we need guns that are as effective as powers.

3) guns should be OP and UP compared to each other. an UR should be OP compared to a rare. a rar should be OP compared to an uncommon etc etc. if not whats the point of some guns being harder to unlock? a harrier should be better then a revenant which should be better then an avenger. its what makes sense. if all guns werre the same the game would get boring and people with avenger 1s could wipe out things as fast as people with a harrier 1. makes no sense

4) some players need the guns to win. just becuase somehting is OP (like the krysea at first) doesn't mean you have to use it. I stopped using the krysea months ago and used my valiant and BW instead. while playing for 4-5 hours i'll use every clas at least once. you don't have to use OP guns so why ruin it for people that need them to beat a silver?

5) new DLC shold put out better weapons or whats the point if there gonna give you crappy weapons that you won't use?

[Rosalina is my BabyCakes]

Rifneno wrote...

godlike13 wrote...

Attention "Nerfers", STFU!

+1

+5
They think they know what balance is but they really don't

[isetfires]

Volatile Device wrote...

Okay. The Piranha. Good ROF, good magazine size (8), fully automatic, good damage, light weight. Horrid accuracy, To really use this gun effectively, you must improve the accuracy. Smart Choke, any other options.

The problem with people calling for nerfs is that they see a weapon in combination with a certain class and power setup as overpowered, and then call the weapon itself overpowered. The truth is, it's very good with that setup and average with everything else.

The Krysae, for example, devastated in the hands of Infiltrators. In the hands of any other class, it really wasn't that good. I've seen many people use the Krysae with other classes and do alright, and I perform similar to that.

I use the Piranha with Damage and Accuracy mods on my N7 Destroyer. With Devastator Mode, specced Accuracy/Mag Size/Damage, with racial class fully specced for weapon damage, Fitness specced for Health/Shields, Armor-Piercing Rounds II, Shotgun Rail Amp II, Shotgun Amp V, and Stability Module II, I could bring myself to call the Piranha overpowered.

But on an Asari Adept? Not overpowered. Therefore, the weapon is overpowered in combination with certain classes, rather than "Overpowered, period."

I support balance, but I do not support nerfing a weapon simply because it's very good with some classes, as then, it would be OK with that class, and underpowered on other classes. That feels like taking one step forward, and then one step back again.

^^^ What he said.

[COLZ7R]

No surprise the usual suspects are out in force trying to sound superior telling people that everything they deem op should be nerffed because they say so, and the majority of the playerbase can stfu. really getting their heads out of their own arse would be a great start.
If they are so against someone else using something the couple of dozen whingers on here should just team up and leave the majority to play the game how the like. fr request each other and **** all day if you ever actually play the game, other than crying on hete all day!!

[gimmethegepgun]

Vhydra wrote...

the (now fixed?) glitch that you could fire two shots in rapid succession.

It's not actually a glitch. All the charged weapons (except Kishock because it is single shot, and the Acolyte because it needs a full charge again) are capable of rapidly firing an uncharged shot after releasing a charged shot. Krysae, though it's charging didn't do anything for its damage, did cause the scope to zoom more, and so could still be double shotted with this tactic.

[.458]

Success is measured in enjoyment. Nerfers need to prove enjoyment is wrong, not the other way around. Who made you ruler?

[InfamousResult]

upinya slayin wrote...

1) most people who call for nerfs play alot of bronze and silver. you cna't base a guns power on a low difficulty. It hsould be based on the damage it does on platinum and gold.

honestly too tired to read the rest but

no

First: Prove what you said, it sounds like you just pulled it right out from between your cheeks.

Second: Dear god, do NOT balance this game around Platinum. Unless a gun is making Platinum, the hardest difficulty, somehow easy for a good chunk of players, they should not balance around Platinum. They should not consider a gun "weak" if it's too weak for Platinum, they should never use Platinum as the basis for what's too weak, never.

We were given Platinum because too many people found Gold to be too easy. If they start balancing around Platinum, we're going to need the goddamn Diamond-Encrusted Goblet of Fire difficulty, and then Dumbledore is going to raise his voice at ALL of you because you put your names in it.

[Killahead]

upinya slayin wrote...



1) most people who call for nerfs play alot of bronze and silver. you cna't base a guns power on a low difficulty. It hsould be based on the damage it does on platinum and gold.

Simply not true. Take the "Balance all the things" group, for example. 100 players, some of them arguably some of the best players in this game, and almost all of them play gold and platinum exclusively. I'd like to see evidence for your claim.

upinya slayin wrote...

2) guns need to be able to compete with damage of powers. before alot of the new guns no soldier could compete with biotics. so we need guns that are as effective as powers.

Agreed. But now the balance has tipped in favor of certain guns. That's why many  "nerfers" are advocating for buffs to a lot of powers and nerfs to a few weapons.

upinya slayin wrote...

3) guns should be OP and UP compared to each other. an UR should be OP compared to a rare. a rar should be OP compared to an uncommon etc etc. if not whats the point of some guns being harder to unlock? a harrier should be better then a revenant which should be better then an avenger. its what makes sense. if all guns werre the same the game would get boring and people with avenger 1s could wipe out things as fast as people with a harrier 1. makes no sense

True for common weapons, which I regard as starter weapons, and which Bioware clearly have little interest in buffing either. But weapons can simply be different, they can perform differently dependent on the situation, and I think it is in everyones interest that we have a variety of viable guns to choose from.

upinya slayin wrote...

4) some players need the guns to win. just becuase somehting is OP (like the krysea at first) doesn't mean you have to use it. I stopped using the krysea months ago and used my valiant and BW instead. while playing for 4-5 hours i'll use every clas at least once. you don't have to use OP guns so why ruin it for people that need them to beat a silver?

If one needs a certain gun to win, then one should step down a difficulty and it is a sign of that weapon being OP. Op guns can ruin the experience even for those who won't touch them simply because most others will. Not everyone has the privilege of always playing in private matches, and some like to do PUGs for numerous reasons.

upinya slayin wrote...



5) new DLC shold put out better weapons or whats the point if there gonna give you crappy weapons that you won't use?

This will lead to a power creep, which isn't favorable. I'd rather have new characters and weapons being different, not more powerful. I'd like for the old characters to perform as well as new ones, as I like variety. New stuff doesn't have to be extremely powerful to be fun to use. If anything, I find really powerful weapons boring myself. New stuff can simply feel different, have a unique niche or in other ways add something new.

Modifié par Killahead, 26 juillet 2012 - 06:57 .

[nomad311]

Volatile Device wrote...

Okay. The Piranha. Good ROF, good magazine size (8), fully automatic, good damage, light weight. Horrid accuracy, To really use this gun effectively, you must improve the accuracy. Smart Choke, any other options.

The problem with people calling for nerfs is that they see a weapon in combination with a certain class and power setup as overpowered, and then call the weapon itself overpowered. The truth is, it's very good with that setup and average with everything else.

The Krysae, for example, devastated in the hands of Infiltrators. In the hands of any other class, it really wasn't that good. I've seen many people use the Krysae with other classes and do alright, and I perform similar to that.

I use the Piranha with Damage and Accuracy mods on my N7 Destroyer. With Devastator Mode, specced Accuracy/Mag Size/Damage, with racial class fully specced for weapon damage, Fitness specced for Health/Shields, Armor-Piercing Rounds II, Shotgun Rail Amp II, Shotgun Amp V, and Stability Module II, I could bring myself to call the Piranha overpowered.

But on an Asari Adept? Not overpowered. Therefore, the weapon is overpowered in combination with certain classes, rather than "Overpowered, period."

I support balance, but I do not support nerfing a weapon simply because it's very good with some classes, as then, it would be OK with that class, and underpowered on other classes. That feels like taking one step forward, and then one step back again.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

The problem I have with nerfers is they ALWAYS focus on weakening things. They argue that a specific weapon is OP, while ignoring the numerous UP weapons in the game. Right now, for every 1 weapon in the game right now that is powerful on Gold/Platinum, there are 4 or 5 that are unusable on Gold/Platinum. How come nerfers never call attention to these? They're so worried about too many people using a particular weapon or class. But they totally ignore the idea that fewer people would latch on to a handful of weapons if there was a wider variety of viable weapons to choose from.

The best idea is to BUFF the weak weapons FIRST; then and only then should we be taking nerfing into consideration.

[InfamousResult]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

The problem I have with nerfers is they ALWAYS focus on weakening things. They argue that a specific weapon is OP, while ignoring the numerous UP weapons in the game. Right now, for every 1 weapon in the game right now that is powerful on Gold/Platinum, there are 4 or 5 that are unusable on Gold/Platinum. How come nerfers never call attention to these? They're so worried about too many people using a particular weapon or class. But they totally ignore the idea that fewer people would latch on to a handful of weapons if there was a wider variety of viable weapons to choose from.

The best idea is to BUFF the weak weapons FIRST; then and only then should we be taking nerfing into consideration.

I just prioritize differently than you.

The irony is that, rather than seeing anybody make "Please Buff This" threads, I only see them making "I HATE NERFER" threads. You would think that, if they actually believed that we were so adversely affecting Bioware's decisions just by making threads with facts and opinions, they would do the same- but asking for Buffs, rather than spewing mindless insults all day long.

C'est la vie, no?

[lord_nair]

cerberus1701 wrote...

FlamboyantRoy wrote...

jamesfrom818 wrote...

Those who support nerfing would probably notify a manager that a waitress forgot to charge them for the drinks that they had with their dinner.

^^^^^^^^^

Yep. There's a sucker born every minute.

I probably would do that.

Why?

Because I've had relatives in food service. Managers can and will reconcile the books by taking those drinks out of the server.

And servers aren't servers so they can make their BMW payments.

i think the correct thing to do is simply give the money back to the server instead of you know... informing their manager and get them into trouble, which is an a-hole thing to do.

[CountryPayload5]

gimmethegepgun wrote...

Vhydra wrote...

the (now fixed?) glitch that you could fire two shots in rapid succession.

It's not actually a glitch. All the charged weapons (except Kishock because it is single shot, and the Acolyte because it needs a full charge again) are capable of rapidly firing an uncharged shot after releasing a charged shot. Krysae, though it's charging didn't do anything for its damage, did cause the scope to zoom more, and so could still be double shotted with this tactic.

I tested this earlier and you are still able to do this. I haven't used the Krysae in some time but with practice you could make up for the rate of fire nerf.

[GGW KillerTiger]

Eckswhyzed wrote...
If you don't want something to be nerfed, present some evidence it's not OP.

Have still doesn't do anything because all the nerf herders see the lifeless players that solo the game use something and think it's that easy for every single player when it honestly isn't. Then the nerf herders just ignore any true evidence of it actually being balanced or even under powered for the average player. Then BioWare listens to the useless players that think fun is not allowed in a game and it must be all seriousness and anything that can hurt their epeen must be destroyed.

[lord_nair]

Xx_Belzak_xX wrote...
The best solution is, as I've said before, is to nerf the nerfers. Push them into oncoming traffic. Problem solved.

The best solution ever! +1

[sydsyrious]

If the scoreboard went away there would be no more nerfers/anti-nerfers. It's all about the e-peen.

[InfamousResult]

cly57 wrote...

If the scoreboard went away there would be no more nerfers/anti-nerfers. It's all about the e-peen.

That's like saying the scoreboard was the only reason people didn't like the missile glitch.