183 réponses à ce sujet

[Eckswhyzed]

Alex_Dur4and wrote...

Volatile Device wrote...

Okay. The Piranha. Good ROF, good magazine size (8), fully automatic, good damage, light weight. Horrid accuracy, To really use this gun effectively, you must improve the accuracy. Smart Choke, any other options.

The problem with people calling for nerfs is that they see a weapon in combination with a certain class and power setup as overpowered, and then call the weapon itself overpowered. The truth is, it's very good with that setup and average with everything else.

The Krysae, for example, devastated in the hands of Infiltrators. In the hands of any other class, it really wasn't that good. I've seen many people use the Krysae with other classes and do alright, and I perform similar to that.

I use the Piranha with Damage and Accuracy mods on my N7 Destroyer. With Devastator Mode, specced Accuracy/Mag Size/Damage, with racial class fully specced for weapon damage, Fitness specced for Health/Shields, Armor-Piercing Rounds II, Shotgun Rail Amp II, Shotgun Amp V, and Stability Module II, I could bring myself to call the Piranha overpowered.

But on an Asari Adept? Not overpowered. Therefore, the weapon is overpowered in combination with certain classes, rather than "Overpowered, period."

I support balance, but I do not support nerfing a weapon simply because it's very good with some classes, as then, it would be OK with that class, and underpowered on other classes. That feels like taking one step forward, and then one step back again.

Hallelujah!! Some people get it!! This gives me hope...

Yeah! You nailed it alright!! The krysae, the typhoon, the harrier, the piranha (just to name those) are good weapons! They are even great weapons! But like stated here, they become overpowered in the right hands.

Why nerf the weapons?? Why not nerf the ability that makes the weapon overpowered?? If you nerf the weapons, you inderectly make other classes that could use some extra combat punch suffer without a valid reason!!

I learned to love the Asari Vanguard again, thanks to the piranha! I can play her on gold and even on platinum now. If this weapon becomes nerfed because of the "Devastator mode" or because of "Marksmen", it will make me angry as my vanguard needed a rapid fire, in-your-face, damage dealing weapon.

I don't think that the Krysea would have received such a huge slap from the nerf stick if it would have been an assault riffle... The "tac-Cloak" was the only problem with the Krysae and Bioware decided to nerf both...  In order to keep the Krysae in check as a sniper riffle, the extra level 6 cloak damage given to sniper riffles is not high enough and this affects all the sniper riffles that desperately need the boost.

However, the level 4 Tac-Cloack power for all damage in general, combined with "devastator mode" and "marksmen"  are putting a few other weapons at risk of being nerfed in the future... And we all know which ones they are...

I agree with you on this one. The recent Krysae nerf was handled badly - the Krysae was really only useful on infiltrators before the nerf and now it's not very useful.

Good balance suggestions take into account the whole picture - how weapons, powers, classes and equipment/gear interact with each other.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

InfamousResult wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

There are threads asking for buffs every day, so I can't say I agree with this.  The one on the first page talking about how underpowered sniper rifles supposedly now are is one example.

We've seen what the results of weapon nerfs are - they ruin weapons.  They don't simply "balance" weapons or tweak them by small amounts.  They break them to the point they're unusable, or at most niche weapons that are used once in a blue moon for variety.

And yet here we are, in this thread, rather than that thread. Curious.

The only weapon I would agree was "ruined" ( or rather, was a pointless nerf to begin with ) was the Kishock. Everything else, I still see used in great numbers and to great effectiveness ( which really just speaks waves about how powerful they were to begin with, if the nerfs were so "severe" ). The Krysae is still being used, still useful- as is the Falcon. And I disagree that crowd control is a "niche".

Now you're just making stuff up.  You still see the Falcon "used in great numbers"?  Where?  What games are you playing?  In the random Gold games I play, the Falcon shows up maybe 1 out of every 40 matches.  Maybe even less frequently than that.  The Krysae is still being used?  It got nerfed 2 days ago.  How can you talk about how much use a weapon is still getting after just 2 days? 

[InfamousResult]

ryoldschool wrote...

Dude, I guess you have not seen any of my posts.

Sorry, not ignoring you. Just a lot of people replying to me.

And no, I don't believe that reload canceling has an adverse effect on Balance, personally- yes, I know the effect it has in comparison between the Claymore and other guns. I still don't believe it's a big deal. If you do, however, you're more than welcome to bring it up and talk about it, and try to catch Bioware's attention; maybe asking them if there is a way to adjust the reload animation for the Claymore, so that it can only be reload canceled to save as much time as other guns.

[upinya slayin]

Killahead wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...



1) most people who call for nerfs play alot of bronze and silver. you cna't base a guns power on a low difficulty. It hsould be based on the damage it does on platinum and gold.

Simply not true. Take the "Balance all the things" group, for example. 100 players, some of them arguably some of the best players in this game, and almost all of them play gold and platinum exclusively. I'd like to see evidence for your claim.

upinya slayin wrote...

2) guns need to be able to compete with damage of powers. before alot of the new guns no soldier could compete with biotics. so we need guns that are as effective as powers.

Agreed. But now the balance has tipped in favor of certain guns. That's why many  "nerfers" are advocating for buffs to a lot of powers and nerfs to a few weapons.

upinya slayin wrote...

3) guns should be OP and UP compared to each other. an UR should be OP compared to a rare. a rar should be OP compared to an uncommon etc etc. if not whats the point of some guns being harder to unlock? a harrier should be better then a revenant which should be better then an avenger. its what makes sense. if all guns werre the same the game would get boring and people with avenger 1s could wipe out things as fast as people with a harrier 1. makes no sense

True for common weapons, which I regard as starter weapons, and which Bioware clearly have little interest in buffing either. But weapons can simply be different, they can perform differently dependent on the situation, and I think it is in everyones interest that we have a variety of viable guns to choose from.

upinya slayin wrote...

4) some players need the guns to win. just becuase somehting is OP (like the krysea at first) doesn't mean you have to use it. I stopped using the krysea months ago and used my valiant and BW instead. while playing for 4-5 hours i'll use every clas at least once. you don't have to use OP guns so why ruin it for people that need them to beat a silver?

If one needs a certain gun to win, then one should step down a difficulty and it is a sign of that weapon being OP. Op guns can ruin the experience even for those who won't touch them simply because most others will. Not everyone has the privilege of always playing in private matches, and some like to do PUGs for numerous reasons.

upinya slayin wrote...



5) new DLC shold put out better weapons or whats the point if there gonna give you crappy weapons that you won't use?

This will lead to a power creep, which isn't favorable. I'd rather have new characters and weapons being different, not more powerful. I'd like for the old characters to perform as well as new ones, as I like variety. New stuff doesn't have to be extremely powerful to be fun to use. If anything, I find really powerful weapons boring myself. New stuff can simply feel different, have a unique niche or in other ways add something new.

1) i'm not gonna check stats and i know some nerfers do play gold and platinum, but i've read alot of posts on here about people saying somehting is OP on silver (bbeing serious) and i just laugh all the time. Still thanks for just trying to make a point and not pickiung a fight

2-3) i agree with you

4) I agree to a point but if that person wants a crutch thats fine by me. it doens't ruin my exp. If someone needed a krysea to keep up with me and my BW or valiant tahts fine by me. let people use what they want. I personally stopped usning the krysea about 2 weeks after it was out becuase it became boring and easy. I can care less about the nerf but alot of people lost their crutch now.

5) I half agree, your right to the point where 5 DLCs from now we'd have guns taht 1 shot a prime on plattinum and we can't have that. But the new weapons should be at least comparable wtih the current best ones or be a specialty weapon. like this DLC teh acolyte is a specialty weapon. weighs almost nothing and is great for stripping shields. combine it with an AP gun (like a typhoon) and your prepared for everything, the typhoon is the 1st LMG. its about on par with the harrier and suffers low ammo (compared to fire rate at least) heavy weight and having to be out of cover for a while (since it warms up before full ROF) they new guns are great w/o being OP

[InfamousResult]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Now you're just making stuff up.  You still see the Falcon "used in great numbers"?  Where?  What games are you playing?  In the random Gold games I play, the Falcon shows up maybe 1 out of every 40 matches.  Maybe even less frequently than that.  The Krysae is still being used?  It got nerfed 2 days ago.  How can you talk about how much use a weapon is still getting after just 2 days? 

Not sure about you, but I play mostly Gold on XBox, and I've seen a lot of the Falcon. Maybe that's just coincidence. But regardless, it's still a useful weapon. And yes, the Krysae is still being used- just like it was still being used after the petty 10% damage nerf, just like Infiltrators are still used after their "debilitating" nerf, and just like most weapons are continuing to be used after any given nerf.

Funny, you accuse me of making stuff up, and you ignored when I asked you how you "knew" that those facts and data that the people in the balance threads were "made up". Are you not making stuff up, now?

[ryoldschool]

InfamousResult wrote...

ryoldschool wrote...

Dude, I guess you have not seen any of my posts.

Sorry, not ignoring you. Just a lot of people replying to me.

And no, I don't believe that reload canceling has an adverse effect on Balance, personally- yes, I know the effect it has in comparison between the Claymore and other guns. I still don't believe it's a big deal. If you do, however, you're more than welcome to bring it up and talk about it, and try to catch Bioware's attention; maybe asking them if there is a way to adjust the reload animation for the Claymore, so that it can only be reload canceled to save as much time as other guns.

I would do that, but only elite players probably even know about it, or use it regularly.  However, the guy in the Nerf the Piranha thread compares it to the Claymore.   So when balancing the guns do they consider reload cancelling???

Not everyone wants ( or maybe is able ) to reload cancel, so how do they balance a gun that is greatly affected by this undocumented ( in-game ) feature?

[Eckswhyzed]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Says the person that likely uses the cookie cutter best forum approved character build and reload cancelled claymore because it puts out the most DPS. I have a laugh those supposed elites use their own formulas for maximum efficiency. They stomp on spawn points and nuke them with grenades or rockets. Where is the challenge in that?

They are the ultimate power gamers. It has to be score envy as the plebs are mnot allowed to do better than them. As such it means there is no skill to the weapon.

I do not farm, camp on certain maps, or use such tactics and get full or partial extracts on gold with people from my friend's list over 90% of the time. I play the game as inteneded not using AI weakness as a crutch and claiming leet skills. there are better player than me and I know it. I can handle my own with any character and any level.

Let's see you top 100K with only a predator and no powers or gear except the perm equip vs. competent teammates in gold hmm. I know I can't because you still use the best guns and set-up available. Better equipment helps everyone.

You should support reload cancel removal then because it is a crutch. The claymore is supposed to be slow because it hits hard. I don't use it. It circumvents the planned fire rate and reload speed to compemnsate for its benefits. Who care that devs said it is a feature. Using it is a crutch.

There's a few interesting things here.

Firstly, I'd like to clear up the whole ad hominem/hypocrisy issue. It shouldn't matter what classes/difficulty I play, as long as my argument as sound. So if I show that the Hanar Spectre is completely OP because it has a 10000% damage bonus, is tankier than a Kroguard and can one-shot Atlases on Platinum with the Geth SMG, it shouldn't matter that I like to use him. My argument should stand or fall on its own merits.

On the other hand, if my argument is coming from my own experiences e.g. "Hanar Spectre on bronze is SO POWERFUL, probably needs a nerf" feel free to go ahead and criticise my choice of difficulty.

Moving on to reload cancelling, yes, I would support the removal of reload cancelling from certain weapons if it made certain weapons too powerful. Removal of reload cancel hurts certain weapons more than others.....it makes life hard on the Claymore Soldier for example. So I'm not in favour of it right now because it also hurts weapon classes such as Soldiers who have just started to get good. I'm open to good discussion on this one.

[InfamousResult]

upinya slayin wrote...

Just from reading comments and looking at manifests you can see what people have and what leevl they play. I read a post about someone saying the typhoon was OP becuase it was mowing down eveyrhting on silver. Its a running joke with the peeps i play with about how dumb some of the comments are that people make here.

and why is your manifest hidden? only 2 reasons you suck and don't want people to know taht or you cheated and have everyhting to 10 but still suck. either way all you want to do is argue and your not worth my time so your on my ignore list now. have fun trolling others

Assumptions, more assumptions, and breaking the forum rules?

I give you two thumbs down. Thanks for putting me on ignore, have fun making up facts.

[ryoldschool]

Eckswhyzed wrote...


Moving on to reload cancelling, yes, I would support the removal of reload cancelling from certain weapons if it made certain weapons too powerful. Removal of reload cancel hurts certain weapons more than others.....it makes life hard on the Claymore Soldier for example. So I'm not in favour of it right now because it also hurts weapon classes such as Soldiers who have just started to get good. I'm open to good discussion on this one.

by all means, put it at the top of your list, I'm all for this.

[sydsyrious]

upinya slayin wrote...

and why is your manifest hidden? only 2 reasons you suck and don't want people to know taht or you cheated and have everyhting to 10 but still suck. either way all you want to do is argue and your not worth my time so your on my ignore list now. have fun trolling others

It wasn't hidden two days ago and showed they hardly played the game - and did not even have the Krysae unlocked.  The response was that they played on another account due to "user abuse"?   I think you have drawn the same conclusion as many that this user should be actively ignored.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

InfamousResult wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Now you're just making stuff up.  You still see the Falcon "used in great numbers"?  Where?  What games are you playing?  In the random Gold games I play, the Falcon shows up maybe 1 out of every 40 matches.  Maybe even less frequently than that.  The Krysae is still being used?  It got nerfed 2 days ago.  How can you talk about how much use a weapon is still getting after just 2 days? 

Not sure about you, but I play mostly Gold on XBox, and I've seen a lot of the Falcon. Maybe that's just coincidence. But regardless, it's still a useful weapon. And yes, the Krysae is still being used- just like it was still being used after the petty 10% damage nerf, just like Infiltrators are still used after their "debilitating" nerf, and just like most weapons are continuing to be used after any given nerf.

Funny, you accuse me of making stuff up, and you ignored when I asked you how you "knew" that those facts and data that the people in the balance threads were "made up". Are you not making stuff up, now?

I ignored it?  No, I responded to one of your posts that was made at an earlier point in time than when you asked me that question.  I can't reply to a post that I haven't seen yet.  Anyway, the example that first comes to mind is where someone referred to a picture of Piranaha pellet spread and claimed, here's the spread at 70m, but really it was closer to 10m.

InfamousResult wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Now
you're just making stuff up.  You still see the Falcon "used in great
numbers"?  Where?  What games are you playing?  In the random Gold games
I play, the Falcon shows up maybe 1 out of every 40 matches.  Maybe
even less frequently than that.  The Krysae is still being used?  It got
nerfed 2 days ago.  How can you talk about how much use a weapon is
still getting after just 2 days? 

Not sure about you, but I play mostly
Gold on XBox, and I've seen a lot of the Falcon. Maybe that's just
coincidence. But regardless, it's still a useful weapon. And yes, the
Krysae is still being used- just like it was still being used after the
petty 10% damage nerf, just like Infiltrators are still used after their
"debilitating" nerf, and just like most weapons are continuing to be
used after any given nerf.

Funny, you accuse me of making stuff
up, and you ignored when I asked you how you "knew" that those facts and
data that the people in the balance threads were "made up". Are you not
making stuff up, now?

When you say the Falcon shows up a lot, could you estimate how often?  I won't hold you to the exact number, just a ballpark guess.  2 in every lobby?  Once every 5 games?  I play PS3, so I suppose it's possible there's some disparity in weapon choice between consoles, but I can tell you with certainty that I've seen other players use the Falcon less than 10 times since I started playing 3 months ago.  And I do play frequently.

Modifié par CmnDwnWrkn, 26 juillet 2012 - 09:07 .

[InfamousResult]

ryoldschool wrote...

I would do that, but only elite players probably even know about it, or use it regularly.

Doesn't matter.

Potential is the name of the game.

To answer a previous query: No, I don't think that the game should be balanced around the top 0.5% of players. Do I think the maximum potential of a gun/power should be considered? Sure- mathematics and solid facts are the grounds for which arguments are made. The higher the potential, the closer you can get to breaking the game.

But the suggestions I make an my opinions are because I believe that a large enough portion of the playerbase ( not saying "majority" ) can achieve enough of a gun's potential that it makes the game too easy, or easier than initially intended. And if you believe that enough people know about reload canceling for it to adversely affect balance, and that it already does adversely affect balance, then I think you should speak up about it.

[upinya slayin]

ryoldschool wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

InfamousResult wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

""We" (insomuch as you clump "us") do not like the unwashed masses being able to actually compete with us, the leet of the leet, so we will find anything we can to complain about and do our damndest to reduce useful weapons into obscurity. Then, and only then, will we be able to feel good about ourselves."

Fixed.

If that's how you want to percieve it, that's cool.

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

It's not fair that I can't beat Platinum consistently, or that other people who are "better" at the game can beat higher difficulties and obtain credits more consistently than me. Everybody should be able to beat all the matches, all the time! Then, and only then, will we be able to feel good about ourselves.

Don't care about Platinum. Don't even really care about Gold. I'm not the best player in the world, and I know that. I play to have fun, not be stressed out and listen to a bunch of preteens yell homophobic slurs over their mics on XBL.

I have no problems with anyone who can beat the higher difficulties and obtain more credits than me. Congratulations, you're good at the game.

What I DO have a problem with is that the best players on the game demand that every weapon be balanced around THEM and THEIR specific class and THEIR specific mods, not around what the AVERAGE player can do.

I posted this a long time ago, this is like asking Michael Jordan, in his prime, to modify the NBA rules to make the game more interesting to him.

exactly. you can't have "perfect balance" in a game where player skill levels are relevant to the equation. look at red john soloing gold with a predator pistol and there are people here in teams of 4 with typhoons that can't beat a FBWGG.

[DVS27t]

Eckswhyzed wrote...

Here's my contribution to the growing mass of threads talking about balancing:

If you don't want something to be nerfed, present some evidence it's not OP.

Statements like "balancing doesn't matter it's PVE" or "nerfers are just whiny cryers who got outscored" contribute nothing to balance discussion. If you accept that nerf threads cause nerfs, you must believe Bioware takes forum feedback into acount when balancing. And Bioware do care about balancing (see weekly changes), and I highly doubt that they will suddenly give up on trying to balance weapons just because of one forum post. So you can stop clogging threads with complaints about these supposed "nerfers" and try contributing something useful.

However, I do believe that the burden of proof lies on the "nerfer" to prove that a current weapon/power/class is overpowered as balance changes do require time and effort to be tested and implemented.

For example:
"Weapon X shouldn't be nerfed. It's not very good in situations X and Y, does less DPS than weapon A, and on top of that only the Hanar Spectre make it useful due to the Hanar weapon bonus. On everything else it's balanced."


That is the sort of comment that Bioware might listen to (if they do, which I'm not sure about).


TL;DR: fight nerfers with actual arguments instead of useless statements like "STFU nerfer". Rational arguments are our weakness, but we only grow stronger from tears and complaining

That would make it a one sided argument.  Nerfers  quote "you can kill a banshee in one magazine" not literal DPS.  Further, they do not take into account amps to boost base damage.  When nerfing is considered the gun should be looked at for base damage as not everyone always has amps to use.  Power amps are meant to make the gun better than average, not barely usable. 

[Father_Jerusalem]

upinya slayin wrote...

ryoldschool wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

InfamousResult wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

""We" (insomuch as you clump "us") do not like the unwashed masses being able to actually compete with us, the leet of the leet, so we will find anything we can to complain about and do our damndest to reduce useful weapons into obscurity. Then, and only then, will we be able to feel good about ourselves."

Fixed.

If that's how you want to percieve it, that's cool.

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

It's not fair that I can't beat Platinum consistently, or that other people who are "better" at the game can beat higher difficulties and obtain credits more consistently than me. Everybody should be able to beat all the matches, all the time! Then, and only then, will we be able to feel good about ourselves.

Don't care about Platinum. Don't even really care about Gold. I'm not the best player in the world, and I know that. I play to have fun, not be stressed out and listen to a bunch of preteens yell homophobic slurs over their mics on XBL.

I have no problems with anyone who can beat the higher difficulties and obtain more credits than me. Congratulations, you're good at the game.

What I DO have a problem with is that the best players on the game demand that every weapon be balanced around THEM and THEIR specific class and THEIR specific mods, not around what the AVERAGE player can do.

I posted this a long time ago, this is like asking Michael Jordan, in his prime, to modify the NBA rules to make the game more interesting to him.

exactly. you can't have "perfect balance" in a game where player skill levels are relevant to the equation. look at red john soloing gold with a predator pistol and there are people here in teams of 4 with typhoons that can't beat a FBWGG.

Clearly, that means that the Predator needs to be nerfed, yes?

After all, if the best player in the game can solo Gold with it, who cares about the unwashed masses. MP should be based around RedJohn,

Amidoinitrite?

[InfamousResult]

cly57 wrote...

It wasn't hidden two days ago and showed they hardly played the game - and did not even have the Krysae unlocked.  The response was that they played on another account due to "user abuse"?   I think you have drawn the same conclusion as many that this user should be actively ignored.

I made it hidden because, regardless of whether people believed what I said or not- they were making it into a personal attack, and had derailed the thread to the point that it had literally become about me, and that no matter WHAT we were talking about, whether it was about a pre-Krysae nerf or something that anybody with an idiom of sense would know, they would toss what I said out the window because of the Manifest on this account. Which was, in turn, asinine.

If you're going to ignore me, then ignore me.

If you're going to slander me, I'll let the moderators deal with you.

Otherwise, get back to the point, and the discussion.

[Poison_Berrie]

cly57 wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

and why is your manifest hidden? only 2 reasons you suck and don't want people to know taht or you cheated and have everyhting to 10 but still suck. either way all you want to do is argue and your not worth my time so your on my ignore list now. have fun trolling others

It wasn't hidden two days ago and showed they hardly played the game - and did not even have the Krysae unlocked.  The response was that they played on another account due to "user abuse"?   I think you have drawn the same conclusion as many that this user should be actively ignored.

Ha! You must be new here.

InfamousResult has been here a while.

Modifié par Poison_Berrie, 26 juillet 2012 - 09:09 .

[upinya slayin]

LiarasShield wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

Yeah but it seems any new weapon from every single dlc obviously needs nerf or that alot of people use this gun so lets nerf it so much so they won't ever use it again how does this end up helping anybody really ?

I rest my case

exactly. of course everyone uses the DLCs weapons like crazy when they come out because they are new. its something different to play with. whats the point of new weapons if they aren't any good. I used my particle rifle maybe 5 times. its not very good but i use it to use it. If it was better i'd use it more

[sydsyrious]

InfamousResult wrote...

cly57 wrote...

It wasn't hidden two days ago and showed they hardly played the game - and did not even have the Krysae unlocked.  The response was that they played on another account due to "user abuse"?   I think you have drawn the same conclusion as many that this user should be actively ignored.

I made it hidden because, regardless of whether people believed what I said or not- they were making it into a personal attack, and had derailed the thread to the point that it had literally become about me, and that no matter WHAT we were talking about, whether it was about a pre-Krysae nerf or something that anybody with an idiom of sense would know, they would toss what I said out the window because of the Manifest on this account. Which was, in turn, asinine.

If you're going to ignore me, then ignore me.

If you're going to slander me, I'll let the moderators deal with you.

Otherwise, get back to the point, and the discussion.

I don't think you play the game - if you want to call that slander fine.  People who have not used weapons should not be the first on threads advocating for their nerf. 

[InfamousResult]

cly57 wrote...

I don't think you play the game - if you want to call that slander fine.  People who have not used weapons should not be the first on threads advocating for their nerf. 

That doesn't seem like ignoring somebody, to me.

[ryoldschool]

InfamousResult wrote...

ryoldschool wrote...

I would do that, but only elite players probably even know about it, or use it regularly.

Doesn't matter.

Potential is the name of the game.

To answer a previous query: No, I don't think that the game should be balanced around the top 0.5% of players. Do I think the maximum potential of a gun/power should be considered? Sure- mathematics and solid facts are the grounds for which arguments are made. The higher the potential, the closer you can get to breaking the game.

But the suggestions I make an my opinions are because I believe that a large enough portion of the playerbase ( not saying "majority" ) can achieve enough of a gun's potential that it makes the game too easy, or easier than initially intended. And if you believe that enough people know about reload canceling for it to adversely affect balance, and that it already does adversely affect balance, then I think you should speak up about it.

Well, that part where you say "
Do I think the maximum potential of a gun/power should be considered? Sure"  well then the maximum potential is when its reload-cancelled, not when its not - speaking about the claymore.

So if they balance the Piranha vs the Claymore they probably should consider the reload-cancel version of the claymore, imo.

[upinya slayin]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

InfamousResult wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

There are threads asking for buffs every day, so I can't say I agree with this.  The one on the first page talking about how underpowered sniper rifles supposedly now are is one example.

We've seen what the results of weapon nerfs are - they ruin weapons.  They don't simply "balance" weapons or tweak them by small amounts.  They break them to the point they're unusable, or at most niche weapons that are used once in a blue moon for variety.

And yet here we are, in this thread, rather than that thread. Curious.

The only weapon I would agree was "ruined" ( or rather, was a pointless nerf to begin with ) was the Kishock. Everything else, I still see used in great numbers and to great effectiveness ( which really just speaks waves about how powerful they were to begin with, if the nerfs were so "severe" ). The Krysae is still being used, still useful- as is the Falcon. And I disagree that crowd control is a "niche".

Now you're just making stuff up.  You still see the Falcon "used in great numbers"?  Where?  What games are you playing?  In the random Gold games I play, the Falcon shows up maybe 1 out of every 40 matches.  Maybe even less frequently than that.  The Krysae is still being used?  It got nerfed 2 days ago.  How can you talk about how much use a weapon is still getting after just 2 days? 

i used a flacon on platinum a few times last night and it was so fun that one of my friends sued it after me. and i scored relatively high. even though 2 people had typhoon/pirhanna combo. used it with disrupter rounds and the demolisher, spammed arc grenades and falcon for stagger and setting up TBs and finished with homing grenades for the TB. phantoms couldn't get near us

[upinya slayin]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

ryoldschool wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

InfamousResult wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

""We" (insomuch as you clump "us") do not like the unwashed masses being able to actually compete with us, the leet of the leet, so we will find anything we can to complain about and do our damndest to reduce useful weapons into obscurity. Then, and only then, will we be able to feel good about ourselves."

Fixed.

If that's how you want to percieve it, that's cool.

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

It's not fair that I can't beat Platinum consistently, or that other people who are "better" at the game can beat higher difficulties and obtain credits more consistently than me. Everybody should be able to beat all the matches, all the time! Then, and only then, will we be able to feel good about ourselves.

Don't care about Platinum. Don't even really care about Gold. I'm not the best player in the world, and I know that. I play to have fun, not be stressed out and listen to a bunch of preteens yell homophobic slurs over their mics on XBL.

I have no problems with anyone who can beat the higher difficulties and obtain more credits than me. Congratulations, you're good at the game.

What I DO have a problem with is that the best players on the game demand that every weapon be balanced around THEM and THEIR specific class and THEIR specific mods, not around what the AVERAGE player can do.

I posted this a long time ago, this is like asking Michael Jordan, in his prime, to modify the NBA rules to make the game more interesting to him.

exactly. you can't have "perfect balance" in a game where player skill levels are relevant to the equation. look at red john soloing gold with a predator pistol and there are people here in teams of 4 with typhoons that can't beat a FBWGG.

Clearly, that means that the Predator needs to be nerfed, yes?

After all, if the best player in the game can solo Gold with it, who cares about the unwashed masses. MP should be based around RedJohn,

Amidoinitrite?

it means that an elite player dominating with a gun doens't make it OP. a decent player dominating bronze with a gun doens't make it OP. if an average player can come in and dominate a paltinum with better players on his team all ebcuase of a gun then you could argue its OP.

[InfamousResult]

ryoldschool wrote...

Well, that part where you say "
Do I think the maximum potential of a gun/power should be considered? Sure"  well then the maximum potential is when its reload-cancelled, not when its not - speaking about the claymore.

So if they balance the Piranha vs the Claymore they probably should consider the reload-cancel version of the claymore, imo.

Then go ahead and say that whenever it comes up. It probably won't be the "deciding" factor in balance changes, if you don't believe that enough of the community uses it- but every factor is important. It's up to Bioware to determine what is the most important, is all.

[Patreus]

I made a topic like this not too long ago, i got banned for it.

Modifié par Patreus, 26 juillet 2012 - 09:15 .