360 réponses à ce sujet

[StrawberryRainPop]

I say thats just poor writing. It would have been IMMENSLY satisfying, if the first act allowed us to choose our tactics for the end game, instead of

"SHEPARD I'M SORRY BUT WE CANT WIN DERP"

nonsense, you telling me no one tried tactics over numbers? The fact that the reapers, were thought as gods, but as we clearly see we can defeat them, means that there is still a chance to win.Add to the fact that our cycle was prepeared, and diverse, means that we stand a better chance than any other.

To introduce a plot device, ALA crucible just because "Conventional Victory" isnt possible, is just insanely bad and contrived writing. Why not let us choose our rules of engagement? Hell, everytime we face a reaper, we win, sure you can argue that they have immense numbers, but like theprotheans, they lack divrersity, and their tactics can be easily out smarted. The fact that the destroy ending is just destroying all synthetics, means that its just as feasible to have a device to disabled all synthetics within an area.

SO no one thought of that? Sure, just trust some random plot device because "Conventional" victory isnt possible. I'm sorry, but a deux ex machina is as conventional as you can get in generic bad writing.

Check out the latest issue of Marauder Shields, it really is the ending most of us wanted, and stays thematically true to the Mass Effect series.

http://koobismo.devi...ffect-317007892

[Binary_Helix 1]

Agreed. If you had ME1 and ME2 saves a conventional victory should have been possible.

If you started your journey with ME3 or were a PS3 player then the Crucible would be needed for victory.

[StrawberryRainPop]

bump

[Xamufam]

In me 2 there were a mass accelerator weapon near a dead reaper, they could have copied the design & mass produced it.

[sth128]

This again?

Provide a valid tactical plan for an ant colony to destroy all humans. The humans have every technological advantage at our disposal (also our shoes). The ants have nothing except what ants usually have.

Go.

[sth128]

Troxa wrote...

In me 2 there were a mass accelerator weapon near a dead reaper, they could have copied the design & mass produced it.

No there wasn't. The cannon was far away and defunct. That "amazing" gun took down a grand total of one Reaper.

[StrawberryRainPop]

sth128 wrote...

This again?

Provide a valid tactical plan for an ant colony to destroy all humans. The humans have every technological advantage at our disposal (also our shoes). The ants have nothing except what ants usually have.

Go.

You are really using this example?

Well then, show me ant colonies killing humans. Because in ME3, we held the reapers back pretty well, and defeated a bunch with Shepard. That never happened in this Ant VS Human failed analogy of yours.



EDIT. ALSO read the OP. If they could harness the cruciblre to target all synthetics, they could also do the same by disabling all synthetics. Either way though, its still a deux ex machina, but if it was brought forth in the first game, then i would be fine with it.

Modifié par StrawberryRainPop, 26 juillet 2012 - 02:04 .

[Conniving_Eagle]

Up until this point, we were meant to believe that conventional victory would be possible, or atleast that we could win.

We are given the sense of "Our Cycle is Different." The Reapers' effectiveness at 'reaping' comes not from their firepower or military capabilities, it comes from their patience and uncanny tactical planning. In the previous cycles, the Reapers would pour through the citadel, killing the galaxy's leaders and gaining a plethora of vital information about life in the galaxy. Furthermore, they gain total control of the Mass Relays. In the previous cycles, the Reapers would shut down all the relays, only opening one at a time and systematically wiping out the respective local civilizations. This is what Sovereign meant when it said "We are legion. Our numbers will darken the skies of every world." Sovereign didn't mean this would happen simultaneously, rather to each planet individually. The Reapers' success is the result of swarming each planet one by one.

The Reapers have already lost this critical advantage. I'd like to know how they knew anything about this galaxy such as which planets were colonies, homeworlds, the location of Arcturus Station. In addition, with the destruction of Sovereign, the Turians developed Thanix weaponry and technology. This along with the Reaper tech that Shepard recovered from the derelict dreadnought and Collector Base, the Reapers are at a huge disadvantage.

Javik comments that the reason the Protheans lost was due to their hegemony, and even then, the Protheans came close to defeating the Reapers.

Modifié par Conniving_Eagle, 26 juillet 2012 - 02:07 .

[Conniving_Eagle]

sth128 wrote...

This again?

Provide a valid tactical plan for an ant colony to destroy all humans. The humans have every technological advantage at our disposal (also our shoes). The ants have nothing except what ants usually have.

Go.

That's a very poor analogy.

[StrawberryRainPop]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Up until this point, we were meant to believe that conventional victory would be possible, or atleast that we could win.

We are given the sense of "Our Cycle is Different." The Reapers' effectiveness at 'reaping' comes not from their firepower or military capabilities, it comes from their patience and uncanny tactical planning. In the previous cycles, the Reapers would pour through the citadel, killing the galaxy's leaders and gaining a plethora of vital information about life in the galaxy. Furthermore, they gain total control of the Mass Relays. In the previous cycles, the Reapers would shut down all the relays, only opening one at a time and systematically wiping out the respective local civilizations. This is what Sovereign meant when it said "We are legion. Our numbers will darken the sky of every world." Sovereign didn't mean this would happen simultaneously, rather to each planet individually. The Reapers' success is the result of swarming each planet one by one.

The Reapers have already lost this critical advantage. I'd like to know how they knew anything about this galaxy such as which planets were colonies, homeworlds, the location of Arcturus Station. In addition, with the destruction of Sovereign, the Turians developed Thanix weaponry and technology. This along with the Reaper tech that Shepard recovered from the derelict dreadnought and Collector Base, the Reapers are at a huge disadvantage.

Javik comments that the reason the Protheans lost was due to their hegemony, and even then, the Protheans came close to defeating the Reapers.

Exactly. Also, wasnt ME2 the same thing? People said it was impossible, but using a united team of different races, Shepard did what people THOUGHT was impossible.

[Galifreya]

I agree with you. BioWare has been intensely stubborn on this issue, absolutely insisting that it isn't possible.

I think it -should- have been entirely possible. Writng Reaper killing code should've been something EDI was working on. Or even the Geth. Or just -everyone-? All scientific minds in the galaxy coming together to write the most kickass computer virus ever created. The Reapers should've been killed with a massively effective virus that destroys Reaper code. Then you get your synthetic friends out of the blast radius, and set off the virus transmission. That's what I thought was going to be the solution way back when ME3 wasn't even a twinkle in EaWare's eye.

Honestly, it's not that hard to think of different ways to kill them, -other than- a frakking Deus Ex Machina the size of a hundred thousand Titanics. I guess you could argue that a super virus created with the cooperation of all in the galaxy is also a -form- of a DEM, but it's a hell of a lot better than the Crucible/Catalyst pair we got, where no one even knows what the f*cking thing is going to DO.

"We don't know what it's gonna do, but it's gonna be big."

REALLY???? Uuuuugh, Kasumi, you just spent a whole lot of months helping build this thing, and you don't know a thing one about what it's going to do? DOES ANYONE???

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF-

Just bad. BAD. BAD.

[DirtyPhoenix]

Troxa wrote...

In me 2 there were a mass accelerator weapon near a dead reaper, they could have copied the design & mass produced it.

Only if TIM is generous enough to share it

[Conniving_Eagle]

Yup. The most significant person who says "We can't beat them conventionally." is Admiral Hackett, after his Alliance fleets get owned by the majority of Reaper forces. We tend to hear "Dead Reapers is how we win this." a lot more.

[StrawberryRainPop]

pirate1802 wrote...

Troxa wrote...

In me 2 there were a mass accelerator weapon near a dead reaper, they could have copied the design & mass produced it.

Only if TIM is generous enough to share it

i'm still disapointed theres no way to side with TIM. Even if you saved the base, the game 180's you and suddenly makes Cerberus your enemy.

[Chashan]

sth128 wrote...

This again?

Provide a valid tactical plan for an ant colony to destroy all humans. The humans have every technological advantage at our disposal (also our shoes). The ants have nothing except what ants usually have.

Go.

The Reapers are not that omnipotent, all things told...

Besides, the gun downed one Reaper that we know of. That it did not serve as a blue-print for additional long-range artillery against the Reapers is just bogus at the end of the day.

Modifié par Chashan, 26 juillet 2012 - 02:13 .

[FAButzke]

Ok, let's us all agree that is possible so people that think it's possible think that we think it's possible and stop posting these again and again.

[Conniving_Eagle]

FAButzke wrote...

Ok, let's us all agree that is possible so people that think it's possible think that we think it's possible and stop posting these again and again.

We question your logic.

[dreman9999]

This has been the concept of stated from ME1. Not having a conventional victory is not bad writing Lord of the rings had and Dragon age had unconventional victories. Yet, when ME has it it's horrible writing.

[FAButzke]

Yeah, it's possible. I agree with you, despite what the creator of the series think.

[StrawberryRainPop]

FAButzke wrote...

Ok, let's us all agree that is possible so people that think it's possible think that we think it's possible and stop posting these again and again.

Possibly.

[sth128]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

That's a very poor analogy.

No it's a perfect analogy. It takes a bunch of ants to defeat one human. Humans are far more superior than ants. A human can travel a large distance in a short time compare to ants.

Humans collect ants and indoctrinate them into thinking the glass ant farm is their home. Humans are beyond the ant's comprehension. In most daily situations, humans are the vanguard of their end (via finger, shoes, or Raid).

Also, from time to time, an ant would escape a massacre only to find himself standing before a human child who proceeds to taunt the ant with a device that focuses tremendous amounts of energy (ie. sunlight) into a beam (ie. Synthesis).


Seriously, ants vs. humans is the best possible analogy for the Reaper conflict.

[JamesFaith]

StrawberryRainPop wrote...

To introduce a plot device, ALA crucible just because "Conventional Victory" isnt possible, is just insanely bad and contrived writing. Why not let us choose our rules of engagement? Hell, everytime we face a reaper, we win, sure you can argue that they have immense numbers, but like theprotheans, they lack divrersity, and their tactics can be easily out smarted. The fact that the destroy ending is just destroying all synthetics, means that its just as feasible to have a device to disabled all synthetics within an area.

Really?

First fleet - our biggest one, reduced to half during first attack on Solar system, had to retreat
Second fleet - sacrificed, when covered retreat of Fifth fleet
Third fleet - forced to retreat before total destruction and failed to protect Arcturus station
Fourth fleet - destroyed near Earth

Yes, this is surely great list of our victories against Reapers.

[FAButzke]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

FAButzke wrote...

Ok, let's us all agree that is possible so people that think it's possible think that we think it's possible and stop posting these again and again.

We question your logic.

Holy crap... You are fast! =)

[fchopin]

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

Agreed. If you had ME1 and ME2 saves a conventional victory should have been possible.

If you started your journey with ME3 or were a PS3 player then the Crucible would be needed for victory.

So if i had not played ME1 and ME2 or was a PS3 player i should need the crucible to win the game, is that what you call logic?

[Kel212]

Is your issue with the writing in the ending or throughout the entire game? Because having a conventional victory effectively nullifies most of the game...