sth128 wrote...
This again?
Provide a valid tactical plan for an ant colony to destroy all humans. The humans have every technological advantage at our disposal (also our shoes). The ants have nothing except what ants usually have.
Go.
dreman9999 wrote...
No that's bad writing. We knew thye over powered us from ME1. Then theirs this.Ticonderoga117 wrote...
Taboo-XX wrote...
You're told twice before reaching the Citadel for the first time that a conventional victory is impossible...
And that's why it's bad writing.
We've hardly fought the Reapers at this point, and the Alliance Fleet's head-honcho is already cutting his wrists going "It's impossible, we might as well roll up and die unless we use this convinent plot device."
This is not Hackett, this is a Cerberus spy or indoctrinated agent.
Or just bad writing.
^ This say it all.
1. Those take time and rescource to make. Things wedon't have time to make. And the reapers are destroying our resources as well.Ticonderoga117 wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
1. You asking for a magic gun and we don't have time or the recource to make it.
2.The reapers have signal blockers and oculies to counter that.
3. Better tactic do nothing to endless husk foces.
The crucilbe is a divice left from the past races to help us. It's not a question of if it can kill the reapers. It's how.
1. Particle weapons, lasers, and nukes aren't magic.
2. How do signal blockers effect something guided by sight or laser, and occuluses won't be able to if you can stealth the delivery system,
3. Hit them from orbit. Or high ground. Or with tanks. Or with artillery. Or use automatic shotguns. Or the Krogan. Or an almost endless supply of Geth troopers.
Pffft.
ME1 also statesthat the reapers can't be beaten convetionally. Sovergin was beaten unconvetionally. And no, ME1 was not retconedKamfrenchie wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
No that's bad writing. We knew thye over powered us from ME1. Then theirs this.Ticonderoga117 wrote...
Taboo-XX wrote...
You're told twice before reaching the Citadel for the first time that a conventional victory is impossible...
And that's why it's bad writing.
We've hardly fought the Reapers at this point, and the Alliance Fleet's head-honcho is already cutting his wrists going "It's impossible, we might as well roll up and die unless we use this convinent plot device."
This is not Hackett, this is a Cerberus spy or indoctrinated agent.
Or just bad writing.
^ This say it all.
Anything after ME1 had questionnable writing anyway, as in the ending of ME1, he reaper threat is aknowledged by the council, and they prpare to face them.
Then bioware retconned ME1 ending...
Modifié par dreman9999, 26 juillet 2012 - 07:50 .
The normady never did that.Tritium315 wrote...
sth128 wrote...
This again?
Provide a valid tactical plan for an ant colony to destroy all humans. The humans have every technological advantage at our disposal (also our shoes). The ants have nothing except what ants usually have.
Go.
You use the Normandy to kill all the reapers while dodging their shots.
Ticonderoga117 wrote...
Our_Last_Scene wrote...
The Reapers vastly outnumber us.
Also they can brainwash us. A simple "FTL around indoctinating planets with a bit of devastating hit-and-run tactics to cripple the galaxy included".
Vastly outnumber, far superior firepower and defenses, the ability to escape without being tracked and brainwashing capabilities = no conventional victory.
This?
We have no data on thier numbers. If they number more than 50K, the galaxy wouldn't stand a chance... ever. The Cruicible would be toast from the get-go.
Indoctrination takes a long time being in close proximity, no data about being indoctrinated in orbit exists.
Firepower? Sure, but we can develop our own.
Defenses? Get neutralised with weapons that aren't effected by barriers.
The ability to escape is for everyone.
So, conventional victory still impossible? Nope.
Modifié par Our_Last_Scene, 26 juillet 2012 - 07:54 .
dreman9999 wrote...
The normady never did that.Tritium315 wrote...
sth128 wrote...
This again?
Provide a valid tactical plan for an ant colony to destroy all humans. The humans have every technological advantage at our disposal (also our shoes). The ants have nothing except what ants usually have.
Go.
You use the Normandy to kill all the reapers while dodging their shots.
But it's can't. It doesn't have the fire power. It just can't.Tritium315 wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
The normady never did that.Tritium315 wrote...
sth128 wrote...
This again?
Provide a valid tactical plan for an ant colony to destroy all humans. The humans have every technological advantage at our disposal (also our shoes). The ants have nothing except what ants usually have.
Go.
You use the Normandy to kill all the reapers while dodging their shots.
Doesn't mean you can't do it.
Conniving_Eagle wrote...
Taboo-XX wrote...
You're told twice before reaching the Citadel for the first time that a conventional victory is impossible...
You are told several times throughout Mass Effect 2 that you are not going to survive the suicide mission/people are going to die.
dreman9999 wrote...
But it's can't. It doesn't have the fire power. It just can't.Tritium315 wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
The normady never did that.Tritium315 wrote...
sth128 wrote...
This again?
Provide a valid tactical plan for an ant colony to destroy all humans. The humans have every technological advantage at our disposal (also our shoes). The ants have nothing except what ants usually have.
Go.
You use the Normandy to kill all the reapers while dodging their shots.
Doesn't mean you can't do it.
dreman9999 wrote...
ME1 also statesthat the reapers can't be beaten convetionally. Sovergin was beaten unconvetionally. And no, ME1 was not retconedKamfrenchie wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
No that's bad writing. We knew thye over powered us from ME1. Then theirs this.Ticonderoga117 wrote...
Taboo-XX wrote...
You're told twice before reaching the Citadel for the first time that a conventional victory is impossible...
And that's why it's bad writing.
We've hardly fought the Reapers at this point, and the Alliance Fleet's head-honcho is already cutting his wrists going "It's impossible, we might as well roll up and die unless we use this convinent plot device."
This is not Hackett, this is a Cerberus spy or indoctrinated agent.
Or just bad writing.
^ This say it all.
Anything after ME1 had questionnable writing anyway, as in the ending of ME1, he reaper threat is aknowledged by the council, and they prpare to face them.
Then bioware retconned ME1 ending...
dreman9999 wrote...
But it's can't. It doesn't have the fire power. It just can't.Tritium315 wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
The normady never did that.Tritium315 wrote...
sth128 wrote...
This again?
Provide a valid tactical plan for an ant colony to destroy all humans. The humans have every technological advantage at our disposal (also our shoes). The ants have nothing except what ants usually have.
Go.
You use the Normandy to kill all the reapers while dodging their shots.
Doesn't mean you can't do it.
When did I say sovergin was unbeatable? It was shown in ME1 that one reaper is extremely hard to kill. If we are facing fleets of ships that can each take on fleets of our ships.....It's clear that it's an unstoppable force. that's common sense. Added, the fleet did not kill Sovergin with fire power alone. Sovergn could easilly of ran and try agan with more forces. We only killed sovergn because we stunned it. That is still an unconvetional victory.Kamfrenchie wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
ME1 also statesthat the reapers can't be beaten convetionally. Sovergin was beaten unconvetionally. And no, ME1 was not retconedKamfrenchie wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
No that's bad writing. We knew thye over powered us from ME1. Then theirs this.Ticonderoga117 wrote...
Taboo-XX wrote...
You're told twice before reaching the Citadel for the first time that a conventional victory is impossible...
And that's why it's bad writing.
We've hardly fought the Reapers at this point, and the Alliance Fleet's head-honcho is already cutting his wrists going "It's impossible, we might as well roll up and die unless we use this convinent plot device."
This is not Hackett, this is a Cerberus spy or indoctrinated agent.
Or just bad writing.
^ This say it all.
Anything after ME1 had questionnable writing anyway, as in the ending of ME1, he reaper threat is aknowledged by the council, and they prpare to face them.
Then bioware retconned ME1 ending...
you are WRONG. Vigil said sovereign needed the geth because alone he woul be destroyed, and yes ME 1 was retconnd, as everybody in ME2 decide not to trust shepard bout the reapers, while they did in ME1 ending, it's ccrystal clear retcon
Garrus was not retired and he almost was a spectre. The space marine has a history of fight crazy ammounts of forces, and based on the powers of the archaeologist mom and what theTritium315 wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
But it's can't. It doesn't have the fire power. It just can't.Tritium315 wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
The normady never did that.Tritium315 wrote...
sth128 wrote...
This again?
Provide a valid tactical plan for an ant colony to destroy all humans. The humans have every technological advantage at our disposal (also our shoes). The ants have nothing except what ants usually have.
Go.
You use the Normandy to kill all the reapers while dodging their shots.
Doesn't mean you can't do it.
Pretty sure a retired cop, an archaeologist, and a space marine can't kill thousands of half synthetic super soldiers either.
Just gotta dodge those Reaper blasts really well.
dreman9999 wrote...
Garrus was not retired and he almost was a spectre. The space marine has a history of fight crazy ammounts of forces, and based on the powers of the archaeologist mom and what theTritium315 wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
But it's can't. It doesn't have the fire power. It just can't.Tritium315 wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
The normady never did that.Tritium315 wrote...
sth128 wrote...
This again?
Provide a valid tactical plan for an ant colony to destroy all humans. The humans have every technological advantage at our disposal (also our shoes). The ants have nothing except what ants usually have.
Go.
You use the Normandy to kill all the reapers while dodging their shots.
Doesn't mean you can't do it.
Pretty sure a retired cop, an archaeologist, and a space marine can't kill thousands of half synthetic super soldiers either.
Just gotta dodge those Reaper blasts really well.
archaeologist pretty much show she can do it.
Killing geths are easy, killing a reapers is hard.
dreman9999 wrote...
1. Those take time and rescource to make. Things wedon't have time to make. And the reapers are destroying our resources as well.
2.Their is not stelth divice that can hide from the reapers. And guide missle still can be seen and shot down.
3.That can work if the reapers are doing that at the same time. The reaper ship do distant damage. The husk forces chorge to attack up close with oculies do distance and up close damage as well. If we are attcking the husk, the reapers are attacking us, if we are attacking the reapers the husk are attacking us. Do you understand?
Modifié par Ticonderoga117, 26 juillet 2012 - 08:37 .
Modifié par iamweaver, 26 juillet 2012 - 08:33 .
dreman9999 wrote...
When did I say sovergin was unbeatable? It was shown in ME1 that one reaper is extremely hard to kill. If we are facing fleets of ships that can each take on fleets of our ships.....It's clear that it's an unstoppable force. that's common sense. Added, the fleet did not kill Sovergin with fire power alone. Sovergn could easilly of ran and try agan with more forces. We only killed sovergn because we stunned it. That is still an unconvetional victory.Kamfrenchie wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
ME1 also statesthat the reapers can't be beaten convetionally. Sovergin was beaten unconvetionally. And no, ME1 was not retconedKamfrenchie wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
No that's bad writing. We knew thye over powered us from ME1. Then theirs this.Ticonderoga117 wrote...
Taboo-XX wrote...
You're told twice before reaching the Citadel for the first time that a conventional victory is impossible...
And that's why it's bad writing.
We've hardly fought the Reapers at this point, and the Alliance Fleet's head-honcho is already cutting his wrists going "It's impossible, we might as well roll up and die unless we use this convinent plot device."
This is not Hackett, this is a Cerberus spy or indoctrinated agent.
Or just bad writing.
^ This say it all.
Anything after ME1 had questionnable writing anyway, as in the ending of ME1, he reaper threat is aknowledged by the council, and they prpare to face them.
Then bioware retconned ME1 ending...
you are WRONG. Vigil said sovereign needed the geth because alone he woul be destroyed, and yes ME 1 was retconnd, as everybody in ME2 decide not to trust shepard bout the reapers, while they did in ME1 ending, it's ccrystal clear retcon
It's been stated from ME1 that the reapers can't be stopped convetionally.. Really, if one can take on one of our fleets, it's obvious we can't beat fleets of that.
Our_Last_Scene wrote...
Well we do know that with both the Quarian and Geth fleets, and the rest of the fleets protecting the Crucible, they still vastly outnumber us. If you do the math it's possible that there's tens to hundreds of billions of them. The reason why the galaxy survived for so much months is because the Reapers were harvesting people, not plain destroying them.
Even in close proximity with a vast fleet it would be incredibly easy for Reapers to reach planets and have an even bigger defense guarding space from attacking galactic fleets, as soon as the fleets arrived they could just leave the planet and FTL away. They would take losses yes, but due to the fact they could guard the Mass Relays (from any angle it's 3-Dimensional space), and also have 1 shot kill weapons, the damage the galactic fleets would take would be more crippling to them, whereas the Reapers could instantly continue their indoctrination in a different system. The galactic fleets would also have to stick together as we know they don't have enough ships to be spread thinly out throughout the galaxy whilst also being able to put up a decent fight against overwhelming Reaper forces moving together.
The galactic forces would not be allowed to retreat, if they do the Reapers would just continue indoctrinating the planet they were on, so the fleet would have to build up a large enough attack force to somehow repel all the Reapers, whilst not taking too much losses, whilst having large enough forces spread throughout the galaxy. Even in the most generous situation it's clear that's not possible.
After a few weeks and months they'll start killing each other and working for the Reapers,
1.The tanix cannon were build and planned in a time when we had the resource and time to do it. The crucible was made with little to no trial and error, with is part of the expence of building new things. We build something that already had all it's plans.Ticonderoga117 wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
1. Those take time and rescource to make. Things wedon't have time to make. And the reapers are destroying our resources as well.
2.Their is not stelth divice that can hide from the reapers. And guide missle still can be seen and shot down.
3.That can work if the reapers are doing that at the same time. The reaper ship do distant damage. The husk forces chorge to attack up close with oculies do distance and up close damage as well. If we are attcking the husk, the reapers are attacking us, if we are attacking the reapers the husk are attacking us. Do you understand?
1. So did all the Thanix cannons we used and the Crucible, but they got built anyway.
2. The Normandy can. It's why they try to pick up Fedorian in the first place. Just make it smaller.
3. No, do YOU understand? Husk forces are not a problem because this is a SPACE WAR.
Ticonderoga117 wrote...
Our_Last_Scene wrote...
Well we do know that with both the Quarian and Geth fleets, and the rest of the fleets protecting the Crucible, they still vastly outnumber us. If you do the math it's possible that there's tens to hundreds of billions of them. The reason why the galaxy survived for so much months is because the Reapers were harvesting people, not plain destroying them.
Even in close proximity with a vast fleet it would be incredibly easy for Reapers to reach planets and have an even bigger defense guarding space from attacking galactic fleets, as soon as the fleets arrived they could just leave the planet and FTL away. They would take losses yes, but due to the fact they could guard the Mass Relays (from any angle it's 3-Dimensional space), and also have 1 shot kill weapons, the damage the galactic fleets would take would be more crippling to them, whereas the Reapers could instantly continue their indoctrination in a different system. The galactic fleets would also have to stick together as we know they don't have enough ships to be spread thinly out throughout the galaxy whilst also being able to put up a decent fight against overwhelming Reaper forces moving together.
The galactic forces would not be allowed to retreat, if they do the Reapers would just continue indoctrinating the planet they were on, so the fleet would have to build up a large enough attack force to somehow repel all the Reapers, whilst not taking too much losses, whilst having large enough forces spread throughout the galaxy. Even in the most generous situation it's clear that's not possible.
After a few weeks and months they'll start killing each other and working for the Reapers,
Then how does the crucible even get close to the Citadel? Since most of thier forces were at Earth protecting the Citadel, they should've curb stomped us and turned the Crucible into junk, but they didn't. Why? Because they don't have that big of an advantage in numbers.
So, if the Reapers pull out, congrats, you've met your objective. If you leave, then you lost that world, but that's just gonna be how it is. You can't win them all. Better to lose a small colony than a homeworld. Better to move on and continue to fight Reapers.
How? There's no information anywhere that says people on ships can be indoctrinated. It's the range, it's too much. Plus, vacuum protects against the audio portion of indoctrination. No need to worry about tht fleets.
dreman9999 wrote...
1.The tanix cannon were build and planned in a time when we had the resource and time to do it. The crucible was made with little to no trial and error, with is part of the expence of building new things. We build something that already had all it's plans.
2.The normady has a reaper core, an Advance AI that is based on reaper code, and the reapers iff. The normady is not a normal ship.
3. You don't know what an oculus is then.
http://masseffect.wi...com/wiki/Oculus
It's basicly a space husk.
The turians lost 30 ships. We did lose 8, but it would be way more if we hadnot stunned Sovergin. Remember, stunning Sovergin is he only reason we killed him, he could of easily ran and nothing was stopping him from doing so. And it would be worse for us now if he did. The only reason we killed soverign is that he chance at another try to open the citedel relay. Point being, he was not going to die any way. It was an unconvetional victory. He died there becasuehe underestamaed Shepard.Kamfrenchie wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
When did I say sovergin was unbeatable? It was shown in ME1 that one reaper is extremely hard to kill. If we are facing fleets of ships that can each take on fleets of our ships.....It's clear that it's an unstoppable force. that's common sense. Added, the fleet did not kill Sovergin with fire power alone. Sovergn could easilly of ran and try agan with more forces. We only killed sovergn because we stunned it. That is still an unconvetional victory.Kamfrenchie wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
ME1 also statesthat the reapers can't be beaten convetionally. Sovergin was beaten unconvetionally. And no, ME1 was not retconedKamfrenchie wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
No that's bad writing. We knew thye over powered us from ME1. Then theirs this.Ticonderoga117 wrote...
Taboo-XX wrote...
You're told twice before reaching the Citadel for the first time that a conventional victory is impossible...
And that's why it's bad writing.
We've hardly fought the Reapers at this point, and the Alliance Fleet's head-honcho is already cutting his wrists going "It's impossible, we might as well roll up and die unless we use this convinent plot device."
This is not Hackett, this is a Cerberus spy or indoctrinated agent.
Or just bad writing.
^ This say it all.
Anything after ME1 had questionnable writing anyway, as in the ending of ME1, he reaper threat is aknowledged by the council, and they prpare to face them.
Then bioware retconned ME1 ending...
you are WRONG. Vigil said sovereign needed the geth because alone he woul be destroyed, and yes ME 1 was retconnd, as everybody in ME2 decide not to trust shepard bout the reapers, while they did in ME1 ending, it's ccrystal clear retcon
It's been stated from ME1 that the reapers can't be stopped convetionally.. Really, if one can take on one of our fleets, it's obvious we can't beat fleets of that.
please, we only lost 8 cruisers against sovereign, and thre was tim to dvelop better weapons. And no, somethin that can be killed isn't unstoppable. In ME1 we didn't know ho many reapers thre were or if they were all as powerful as Sovereign. Most likely most of them would be weaker, as overeign task wwas very important.
Sovreign didn't have an endless supply of heretic geth, and after the attack everyone would know about the reapers. Sovereign was gonna die to the fleet anyway. That's why he assumed control of saren.
He couldn't fall back, time was aginst him, even if he could, he'd only give more time to the galaxy to prepare.
It took 7 or more sherman to kill a tiger, but the alied won. the USSR tok milions of casualties in WW2, but thy won.
Our_Last_Scene wrote...
The Reapers were spread throughout the galaxy, not all defending Earth, you can see this by looking at the galaxy map before you do Earth.
If the Reapers pull out they just move to a different planet.
Never said anything about indoctrinating ships, I said planets.
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