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[ZLurps]

The Twilight God wrote...

ZLurps wrote...

Saren's floating surf pad, Jack destroying YMIR mechs, etc. all these things break the lore.

How does any of that break the lore. Jack is that powerful. Grunt is that powerful. Samara is that powerful. Etc. Etc. You're bringing up gameplay vs lore. It's like saying Garrus and Thane are ****ty snipers because they don't hit with 100% accuracy in gameplay.

ZLurps wrote...

Cinematics in ME series has always been designed with rule of cool being more important than lore. I really don't understand how people who have played through the series, many times, can't see that.

You see what you want to see. In this case I see what's on screen.

Don't get me wrong, there are cutscenes that I do believe contradict the true lorelike Ashley taking doen wrex with a single pistol shot to the hump. First he's krogan, second he has shields, 3rd he has armor. That scene simple can't take place canonically. However, not the space battle. There simply isn't enough ingame proof to assert thanix cannons were equip on most ships. Hopefully they'll correct it in the future by adding blue beams with the blue bolts. Seems easy enough. Because in all honestly a fleet without thanix weaponry should fare pretty badly considering Soveriegn alone held off a whole fleet using mass accelerators. What I'm saying is you SHOULD be right, but you're not. You're RIGHT to be wrong. Bioware is WRONG for making you wrong. I agree it is messed up. 

Perhaps there isn't a problem after all. I was looking around, searhing dev quote about Thanix (they confirmed that they were used at some point) but found something else.

imageshack.us/g/846/thanixcannons1.jpg/

Pictures are from Sol system space battle cinematics. For me those look like Thanix cannons, because Thanix is a projectile weapon that only appears as beam on short distances because of trace.

[F4H bandicoot]

Yeah but in terms of Space battles they are at insanely close range..

[ZLurps]

F4H bandicoot wrote...

Yeah but in terms of Space battles they are at insanely close range..

I have tried to say about this earlier, but try to think of it. If we used distances that even remotely would make any sense, ships would still appear as dots. In ME universe distances used in cinematics, appear to be longer than exact knife fighting range, which is where fighters go, it's inconsistent, but if you do something else, you either can show very small scene of battle, or you got ships as tiny dots, if even that.

[F4H bandicoot]

ZLurps wrote...

F4H bandicoot wrote...

Yeah but in terms of Space battles they are at insanely close range..

I have tried to say about this earlier, but try to think of it. If we used distances that even remotely would make any sense, ships would still appear as dots. In ME universe distances used in cinematics, appear to be longer than exact knife fighting range, which is where fighters go, it's inconsistent, but if you do something else, you either can show very small scene of battle, or you got ships as tiny dots, if even that.

That's not the point. the battle takes place at close range. Hence thanix should be visible as seen in the fight with the collector ship.
Reapers employ a more powerful thanix (seeing that we reverse engineered it), and that shows up as the clasic 'beam'

[oldag07]

There were several mentions that a conventional victory wasn't possible.
- Garrus stating that he advised the Patriarch to stop trying to defend Turian space and to put the Turians hopes on the Crucible.
- The Prothean VI on Thessia stating that a conventional victory was not possible.
- Admiral Hackett stating after his big speech before the final battle that they would either bleed slowly to death fighting conventionally or launch major battle for Earth to use the Crucible.
- The Starchild in the Extended Edition stating that their forces vastly outnumbered you and still had a major technological advantage over you of you decide not to use the Crucible.

[ZLurps]

F4H bandicoot wrote...

ZLurps wrote...

F4H bandicoot wrote...

Yeah but in terms of Space battles they are at insanely close range..

I have tried to say about this earlier, but try to think of it. If we used distances that even remotely would make any sense, ships would still appear as dots. In ME universe distances used in cinematics, appear to be longer than exact knife fighting range, which is where fighters go, it's inconsistent, but if you do something else, you either can show very small scene of battle, or you got ships as tiny dots, if even that.

That's not the point. the battle takes place at close range. Hence thanix should be visible as seen in the fight with the collector ship.
Reapers employ a more powerful thanix (seeing that we reverse engineered it), and that shows up as the clasic 'beam'

Reaper ships have far more larger drive cores than what galactic fleets have, this is explanation to why aren't galactic fleets miniaturized Thanix cannons as effecient as Reaper counter parts.

Miniaturized Thanix cannot single shot Reaper capital ships, but Reaper ships can one shot about everything galactic fleets have. I don't see any other conclusion, but that more powerful element zero core of Reaper ships can shoot far more massive projectiles than miniaturized verision. Far more larger projectile would also leave much longer trace than miniaturized version and so, appear as beam even over long distances.

[The Twilight God]

ZLurps wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

ZLurps wrote...

Saren's floating surf pad, Jack destroying YMIR mechs, etc. all these things break the lore.

How does any of that break the lore. Jack is that powerful. Grunt is that powerful. Samara is that powerful. Etc. Etc. You're bringing up gameplay vs lore. It's like saying Garrus and Thane are ****ty snipers because they don't hit with 100% accuracy in gameplay.

ZLurps wrote...

Cinematics in ME series has always been designed with rule of cool being more important than lore. I really don't understand how people who have played through the series, many times, can't see that.

You see what you want to see. In this case I see what's on screen.

Don't get me wrong, there are cutscenes that I do believe contradict the true lorelike Ashley taking doen wrex with a single pistol shot to the hump. First he's krogan, second he has shields, 3rd he has armor. That scene simple can't take place canonically. However, not the space battle. There simply isn't enough ingame proof to assert thanix cannons were equip on most ships. Hopefully they'll correct it in the future by adding blue beams with the blue bolts. Seems easy enough. Because in all honestly a fleet without thanix weaponry should fare pretty badly considering Soveriegn alone held off a whole fleet using mass accelerators. What I'm saying is you SHOULD be right, but you're not. You're RIGHT to be wrong. Bioware is WRONG for making you wrong. I agree it is messed up. 

Perhaps there isn't a problem after all. I was looking around, searhing dev quote about Thanix (they confirmed that they were used at some point) but found something else.

imageshack.us/g/846/thanixcannons1.jpg/

Pictures are from Sol system space battle cinematics. For me those look like Thanix cannons, because Thanix is a projectile weapon that only appears as beam on short distances because of trace.

I went down that train of though myself for a bit. However, a thanix beam is shooting a stream of hot metal. Those look more like geth plasma weapon "projectiles".  Then again they have "thanix missiles" which actually made me cringe when I heard about them on the London mission. How the heck do you make a thanix missile??? So hey, anything is possible. Magic green light that transforms all life in the galaxy, anyone? Maybe they are "thanix bolts". 

The bottom miffle pic is showing the Normandy firing its thanix cannons like in the ending of ME2. That occurs right as they start breaking away to head for earth. Base on how it fired in ME2 (slowly) it obviously in nowhere near as fast as "a fraction of the speed of light" so it's not like thanix is as powerful as a reaper version. Clearly not strong enough to shred them like they shred us.

Not having thanix cannons doesn't put them in any position to even put a dent in the reapers. They HAVE to have them. But they don't convincingly portray that. This is just one of many consistency problems that this team of character writters screwed up on. Bioware has great character writters, but they have no story writters. The lead writter should have been a story writter. Mac Walters is a character writter and ME2 proved that as it had no story and was all about characters.Don't know if the story writers were all moved to the SWTOR team or have left the company over the years, but they NEED story writers. People who don't just handwave  everything or outright forget/dismiss lore.  

Modifié par The Twilight God, 27 juillet 2012 - 06:34 .

[incinerator950]

Considering Tor is a flaming flop, do you really want more of their writers? Go get some of Obsidian's writers, considering FONV or KOTOR2.

Also, Thanix weapons are not a crutch. There are several factors which can make this a winnable conventional war, which we all should know by now is not possible. Which is why you shouldn't care about these inconsistencies.

Frankly I'm more irritated at the amount of sprites and flashing sideway tracers that are everywhere. Even BSG and the Clone Wars got it right, why couldn't BW?

[AlanC9]

incinerator950 wrote...

Considering Tor is a flaming flop, do you really want more of their writers? Go get some of Obsidian's writers, considering FONV or KOTOR2.

Oh, right. KotOR 2. The game with a worse ending than pre-EC ME3.

[ZLurps]

The Twilight God wrote...

Not having thanix cannons doesn't put them in any position to even put a dent in the reapers. They HAVE to have them. But they don't convincingly portray that. This is just one of many consistency problems that this team of character writters screwed up on. Bioware has great character writters, but they have no story writters. The lead writter should have been a story writter. Mac Walters is a character writter and ME2 proved that as it had no story and was all about characters.Don't know if the story writers were all moved to the SWTOR team or have left the company over the years, but they NEED story writers. People who don't just handwave  everything or outright forget/dismiss lore.  

Funny how during ME: Deception novel controversy I thought that game really should be okay, and novel got past Hudson and Walters because they were so focused polishing ME3.

At least Deception went to limbo, I don't know what I would say if there were people arguing that "Conventional victory should be possible because even old Batarian piece of junk ships have Tantalus drive cores. If Batarians have even old ships, It makes sense that everybody has them and so every ship could be made to stealth ship." or something. Anyway, I never thought Deception would be some sort of omen. (Though, ending of ME3 isn't anywhere near that bad, yes it's possible).

Walters and Hudson are brought up very often, and for a reason, but sometimes other things happen too. Perhaps BW's own working culture changed. It has happened before, some AAA game production graphics designers had their cubes next to each other but weren't allowed to exhange ideas between themself but everything had to go through manager first. I don't have any insight to how BW works, but perhaps their culture changed when EA came in, but this is off-topic and speculation.