189 réponses à ce sujet

[count_4]

Crimson-Engage wrote...

theillusiveman11 wrote...

Just something I've noticed on forums, there seems to be some contempt for console players. I'm just wondering why.

Who cares? Just remember where the ME series started. The Xbox. PC better be lucky they even get their slimy fat little fingers on our game.

And now, for the fun of thought, we think about where BioWare started. 

[GallowsPole]

count_4 wrote...

GallowsPole wrote...

count_4 wrote...

GallowsPole wrote...
Games are not written for the latest and greatest hardware,ever,either.

I guess there are concole players I don't like after all. The ones talking inflammatory nonsense like your post. 
Of course there are games developed for the greatest hardware, some games even developed for hardware not yet existing. Crysis is a good example as are Serious Sam 3 and Metro 2033. Battlefield 3 plays in that league as well and so does the Witcher 2. 
However, you'll notice a pattern here: All these games have a strong focus on the PC.

Code is updated. That's all. At the time of development, they develop for the masses, not the three people who "may" purchase new hardware. The drivers themselves get updated. Repeatedly and often. If your statement were true, they never would. They can lay the basis for that with the kits they purchase from the maker, IF, the code exists. And I forget, how many patches we up to in those games you mentioned? 

Dude, if you don't know what you're talking about, don't talk about it. These games I stated were developed for the best hardware at time of release, some of them (Crysis, Serious Sam 3, Metro 2033) even for hardware that didn't exist at the time.
And there are no 'kits' for PC development. There are engines and engines have the tendency to scale to the hardware. In the case of the games mentioned, the engines scaled down because they were meant for higher tier hardware than was available.

Dude, you need a kit JUST to make sure it runs on Windows. Which we all know is NEVER up to date with things. The game itself, on its own engine, yes is dumb downed. They built it for petes sake. The thing is, they need it to run on multiple platorms, IE a variety of graphic processors on at least 2 different Windows version and MAC, which is entirely yet a different animal, if the game was ported over to it. So sure, the game itself may employ up to date software, but the necessary tools to allow it to run is antiquated.

[Beelzebubs]

count_4 wrote...

Crimson-Engage wrote...

theillusiveman11 wrote...

Just something I've noticed on forums, there seems to be some contempt for console players. I'm just wondering why.

Who cares? Just remember where the ME series started. The Xbox. PC better be lucky they even get their slimy fat little fingers on our game.

And now, for the fun of thought, we think about where BioWare started. 

Shhh they'll counter with where EA started.

[masswor5]

I live in a third world country where it's hard as hell to find any parts..and they are usually very expensive..I'm also not that financially stable, yet still I managed to save my money and put together a decent rig with much better specs than any crappy console. I just boggles my mind how people living in places where there are almost always deals on parts and things are cheaper in general complain about how expensive a gaming rig is.

[neteng101]

theillusiveman11 wrote...

Just something I've noticed on forums, there seems to be some contempt for console players. I'm just wondering why.

Too many kids with consoles these days, so the quality of players on consoles are generally worse due to the younger age base.  Consoles also limit game development due to their inferior hardware that doesn't see the constant refresh cycles of PCs.

Dragon Age 2 is the perfect example of how a game title gets trashed to bits because of consoles.  Its the worse sin of game development Bioware has ever committed.  But ME has always been a console port, so we already know its limits.

P/S - All you wanting better AI and more enemies and bigger maps and greater challenges...  this game is a console port, there's just no way consoles can do all that.   Consoles are dinosaurs - even a PC is considered one after 3 years, and the Xbox 360 was released in 2005 and the PS3 in 2006.

[Influ]

OP has never heard of fanboyism, brand loyalty and other similar idiocies? This is not news and it happens everywhere.

Also I love how people that actually have no idea what's going on in the gaming industry in a grand scale keep touting how PC gaming is dying or in decline. In reality it's the fastest growing platform and has been so for a few years. The console market has pretty much reached it's peak. Not that it really matters, it's a huge market.

Modifié par Influ, 26 juillet 2012 - 12:49 .

[Charaxan]

Once upon a time, we had great pc games.

Then, devs decided to port pc games to console.

Then, devs decided to adapt pc games to the console gamers.

Then, devs decided to port console games to pc.

You have your justified hate.


That and for this :



How could you win a game with that ???

[xtorma]

I'm on pc , so console players mean ziltch to me, as I do to them.

[count_4]

GallowsPole wrote...

count_4 wrote...

GallowsPole wrote...

count_4 wrote...

GallowsPole wrote...
Games are not written for the latest and greatest hardware,ever,either.

I guess there are concole players I don't like after all. The ones talking inflammatory nonsense like your post. 
Of course there are games developed for the greatest hardware, some games even developed for hardware not yet existing. Crysis is a good example as are Serious Sam 3 and Metro 2033. Battlefield 3 plays in that league as well and so does the Witcher 2. 
However, you'll notice a pattern here: All these games have a strong focus on the PC.

Code is updated. That's all. At the time of development, they develop for the masses, not the three people who "may" purchase new hardware. The drivers themselves get updated. Repeatedly and often. If your statement were true, they never would. They can lay the basis for that with the kits they purchase from the maker, IF, the code exists. And I forget, how many patches we up to in those games you mentioned? 

Dude, if you don't know what you're talking about, don't talk about it. These games I stated were developed for the best hardware at time of release, some of them (Crysis, Serious Sam 3, Metro 2033) even for hardware that didn't exist at the time.
And there are no 'kits' for PC development. There are engines and engines have the tendency to scale to the hardware. In the case of the games mentioned, the engines scaled down because they were meant for higher tier hardware than was available.

Dude, you need a kit JUST to make sure it runs on Windows. Which we all know is NEVER up to date with things. The game itself, on its own engine, yes is dumb downed. They built it for petes sake. The thing is, they need it to run on multiple platorms, IE a variety of graphic processors on at least 2 different Windows version and MAC, which is entirely yet a different animal, if the game was ported over to it. So sure, the game itself may employ up to date software, but the necessary tools to allow it to run is antiquated.

I planed to type an elaborate answer here but, honestly, the only thing that comes to mind when I read your post is: WTF are you talking about?
What is this 'kit' you speak of? What are these 'necessary tools' and in what way are they antiquated? And may I ask where your (general) development experience is at regarding software?

[GallowsPole]

masswor5 wrote...

I live in a third world country where it's hard as hell to find any parts..and they are usually very expensive..I'm also not that financially stable, yet still I managed to save my money and put together a decent rig with much better specs than any crappy console. I just boggles my mind how people living in places where there are almost always deals on parts and things are cheaper in general complain about how expensive a gaming rig is.

They arent expensive. I build my own all the time. The thing is, its not worth it having to rebuild it every couple of years. If I took advantage of every latest and greatest thing to come out, I could buy 5 Xboxes. As I said before, all consoles did was open a large market, its cheaper to develop for and less time consuming. You dont have to develop patch after patch whenever Windows updates or a new graphic card comes out, or you need a new driver, etc etc. You gotta pay people to do that and its not just for the game, as I said, you need it to actually run on an operating system. Yeah consoles are dumbed down versions of PC's, but thats where the money is at. Has nothing to do with kiddies playing it, or we hate PC's. I have both. Up until I went out on Disability in December, I worked for Big Blue for a long time. PC's arent cheap to make for when you take into account everything. Why ya think they outsource for.

[Dokteur Kill]

I actually have a pair of the PC-version of the xbox 360 controller. As gamepads go, it's cheap and not bad, and it beats keyboard for playing Lego Star Wars.

[Dorryn]

neteng101 wrote...

theillusiveman11 wrote...

Just something I've noticed on forums, there seems to be some contempt for console players. I'm just wondering why.

Dragon Age 2 is the perfect example of how a game title gets trashed to bits because of consoles.  Its the worse sin of game development Bioware has ever committed.  But ME has always been a console port, so we already know its limits.

True. The irony is that Demiurge did a better job at it than Bioware. Sure moving around the Normandy and Citadel wasn't the smoothest experience ever but it was solid. I remember being quite impressed with it. The game took a long time to start and alt-tabbing was a good opportunity to go grab a cup of cofee but unlike BW, Demiurge knew that a PC keyboard as 100+ keys and they made good use of that. So we had shortcuts for the inventory, the squad screen, the journal, even the weapons! And I doubt adding shortcuts is what they had the most trouble with when they did the port, so you'd think BW would have followed their example for ME2 and 3... 

But no. Making a different type of bindings for PC takes too much time and above all, it doesn't get them more money. First-day DLC on the other hand..

[Fortack]

Mandalore313 wrote...

Consoles are slowing down the evolution of pcs and personally that's where my disdain comes from.
Nothing personal, I just consider you dead weight.

This.

[GallowsPole]

count_4 wrote...

GallowsPole wrote...

count_4 wrote...

GallowsPole wrote...

count_4 wrote...

GallowsPole wrote...
Games are not written for the latest and greatest hardware,ever,either.

I guess there are concole players I don't like after all. The ones talking inflammatory nonsense like your post. 
Of course there are games developed for the greatest hardware, some games even developed for hardware not yet existing. Crysis is a good example as are Serious Sam 3 and Metro 2033. Battlefield 3 plays in that league as well and so does the Witcher 2. 
However, you'll notice a pattern here: All these games have a strong focus on the PC.

Code is updated. That's all. At the time of development, they develop for the masses, not the three people who "may" purchase new hardware. The drivers themselves get updated. Repeatedly and often. If your statement were true, they never would. They can lay the basis for that with the kits they purchase from the maker, IF, the code exists. And I forget, how many patches we up to in those games you mentioned? 

Dude, if you don't know what you're talking about, don't talk about it. These games I stated were developed for the best hardware at time of release, some of them (Crysis, Serious Sam 3, Metro 2033) even for hardware that didn't exist at the time.
And there are no 'kits' for PC development. There are engines and engines have the tendency to scale to the hardware. In the case of the games mentioned, the engines scaled down because they were meant for higher tier hardware than was available.

Dude, you need a kit JUST to make sure it runs on Windows. Which we all know is NEVER up to date with things. The game itself, on its own engine, yes is dumb downed. They built it for petes sake. The thing is, they need it to run on multiple platorms, IE a variety of graphic processors on at least 2 different Windows version and MAC, which is entirely yet a different animal, if the game was ported over to it. So sure, the game itself may employ up to date software, but the necessary tools to allow it to run is antiquated.

I planed to type an elaborate answer here but, honestly, the only thing that comes to mind when I read your post is: WTF are you talking about?
What is this 'kit' you speak of? What are these 'necessary tools' and in what way are they antiquated? And may I ask where your (general) development experience is at regarding software?

here Ill give you an easy one to start  out with. For the latest and greatest OS due out in November.

http://msdn.microsof...e/gg487428.aspx

Actually go to the Homepage there too of it. Thats just to do drivers.

Modifié par GallowsPole, 26 juillet 2012 - 12:59 .

[ryoldschool]

Have to laugh at this entire thread. What a bunch of generalizations on all sides. I play xbox and have a number of friends who play PC. I even bought the PC version so I could play ME3 MP with them. We have a lot more in common than most people on the planet.

[count_4]

GallowsPole wrote...

count_4 wrote...

GallowsPole wrote...

count_4 wrote...

GallowsPole wrote...

count_4 wrote...

GallowsPole wrote...
Games are not written for the latest and greatest hardware,ever,either.

I guess there are concole players I don't like after all. The ones talking inflammatory nonsense like your post. 
Of course there are games developed for the greatest hardware, some games even developed for hardware not yet existing. Crysis is a good example as are Serious Sam 3 and Metro 2033. Battlefield 3 plays in that league as well and so does the Witcher 2. 
However, you'll notice a pattern here: All these games have a strong focus on the PC.

Code is updated. That's all. At the time of development, they develop for the masses, not the three people who "may" purchase new hardware. The drivers themselves get updated. Repeatedly and often. If your statement were true, they never would. They can lay the basis for that with the kits they purchase from the maker, IF, the code exists. And I forget, how many patches we up to in those games you mentioned? 

Dude, if you don't know what you're talking about, don't talk about it. These games I stated were developed for the best hardware at time of release, some of them (Crysis, Serious Sam 3, Metro 2033) even for hardware that didn't exist at the time.
And there are no 'kits' for PC development. There are engines and engines have the tendency to scale to the hardware. In the case of the games mentioned, the engines scaled down because they were meant for higher tier hardware than was available.

Dude, you need a kit JUST to make sure it runs on Windows. Which we all know is NEVER up to date with things. The game itself, on its own engine, yes is dumb downed. They built it for petes sake. The thing is, they need it to run on multiple platorms, IE a variety of graphic processors on at least 2 different Windows version and MAC, which is entirely yet a different animal, if the game was ported over to it. So sure, the game itself may employ up to date software, but the necessary tools to allow it to run is antiquated.

I planed to type an elaborate answer here but, honestly, the only thing that comes to mind when I read your post is: WTF are you talking about?
What is this 'kit' you speak of? What are these 'necessary tools' and in what way are they antiquated? And may I ask where your (general) development experience is at regarding software?

here Ill give you an easy one to start  out with. For the latest and greatest OS due out in November.

http://msdn.microsof...e/gg487428.aspx

Actually go to the Homepage there too of it. Thats just to do drivers.

And what would a game developer want with a kit to develop system drivers?

[Dokteur Kill]

GallowsPole wrote...
The thing is, its not worth it having to rebuild it every couple of years.

While that is true, why would you want to?

Half the parts in my PC are still the same as when I originally built it in 2004. I swapped the CPU for a cheap Opteron I got and switched the 6800GT for an 8800GTS in 2008 (I think). Only thing I've done with it since then is add a second 8800 that I got used for practically nothing from a friend. There are no problems making a gaming pc last for 4-5 years when you look at how slow game development has become. We're not in the booming late nineties/early noughties any more.

I'm thinking of doing a major upgrade now, in 2012. And gaming isn't even the main motivation behind that, it's photo editing.

[GallowsPole]

Then when you're done with driver SDK's, now look up Direct X SDK's SDK (Software Developers KITS)

[perera74]

I console (arf) myself that my 'monitor' is a 52 inch Sony flat screen...

Hey ho.

[KDBANKS]

ryoldschool wrote...

Have to laugh at this entire thread. What a bunch of generalizations on all sides. I play xbox and have a number of friends who play PC. I even bought the PC version so I could play ME3 MP with them. We have a lot more in common than most people on the planet.

Thank you.

[GallowsPole]

count_4 wrote...
And what would a game developer want with a kit to develop system drivers?

Ummm what do you think every single piece of hardware needs to even run on your PC. The one specifically running your video card.

[count_4]

GallowsPole wrote...
Then when you're done with driver SDK's, now look up Direct X SDK's SDK (Software Developers KITS)

Oh, so you're talking about graphics APIs. Well, now that we have that out of the way (kinda, OpenGL doesn't have an SDK or 'kit'), how about you answer the rest of my questions? Cause it still doesn't make a lot of sense to be honest.

GallowsPole wrote...

count_4 wrote...
And what would a game developer want with a kit to develop system drivers?

Ummm what do you think every single piece of hardware needs to even run on your PC. The one specifically running your video card.

 
It needs drivers. Which sure as hell aren't developed by game developers.

Modifié par count_4, 26 juillet 2012 - 01:07 .

[Lazurukeel]

Mandalore313 wrote...

Consoles are slowing down the evolution of pcs and personally that's where my disdain comes from.
Nothing personal, I just consider you dead weight.

Wait, how are they slowing it down? Did this come from a kotaku "article" or something? They're two separate markets. PC capabilities still far outreach those of the current gen consoles, and then on the flip side, Kinect is being developed for Windows. As gimmicky as it is on XBox, that thing has some decent tech inside and the potential for much better use of said tech.

[Dokteur Kill]

GallowsPole wrote...
Ummm what do you think every single piece of hardware needs to even run on your PC. The one specifically running your video card.

You mean that piece of software that's developed by the video card manufacturer, and updated typically around four times a year?

Sure, sometimes games developers have to work with GPU manufacturers to get the drivers to support certain API features that they would like to use in their games, but it's not as if they actually need to develop the drivers from the ground up themselves.

[GallowsPole]

Dokteur Kill wrote...

GallowsPole wrote...
The thing is, its not worth it having to rebuild it every couple of years.

While that is true, why would you want to?

Half the parts in my PC are still the same as when I originally built it in 2004. I swapped the CPU for a cheap Opteron I got and switched the 6800GT for an 8800GTS in 2008 (I think). Only thing I've done with it since then is add a second 8800 that I got used for practically nothing from a friend. There are no problems making a gaming pc last for 4-5 years when you look at how slow game development has become. We're not in the booming late nineties/early noughties any more.

I'm thinking of doing a major upgrade now, in 2012. And gaming isn't even the main motivation behind that, it's photo editing.

Hell I dont want to, just  saying people do it. And not only did consoles cause the gaming industry to flail on PC, overall., Now you got iPads, phones, tablets, all taking a piece of gaming to hit those niche markets. I cant even recall the last game I played on PC. I have a quad core sitting collecting dust whilst I use my Thinkpad T410 all the time.