189 réponses à ce sujet

[Dokteur Kill]

perera74 wrote...

I console (arf) myself that my 'monitor' is a 52 inch Sony flat screen...

Hey ho.

Oh yeah, that's the second reason I want to upgrade: running Civ V in 2560x1600 on my 30" Dell display. 1920*1080 can go sulk in the corner 

[GallowsPole]

count_4 wrote...

GallowsPole wrote...
Then when you're done with driver SDK's, now look up Direct X SDK's SDK (Software Developers KITS)

Oh, so you're talking about graphics APIs. Well, now that we have that out of the way (kinda, OpenGL doesn't have an SDK or 'kit'), how about you answer the rest of my questions? Cause it still doesn't make a lot of sense to be honest.

GallowsPole wrote...

count_4 wrote...
And what would a game developer want with a kit to develop system drivers?

Ummm what do you think every single piece of hardware needs to even run on your PC. The one specifically running your video card.

 
It needs drivers. Which sure as hell aren't developed by game developers.

No the drivers are not written by the game developers, but they have to be tested and implented and usually thats on the lower end of the scale as opposed to the latest and greatest so a vast majority of people can play it. Maybe I wasnt clear enough. I tend to babble. All I meant was, even though, yes, game manufacturers roll out software capable of running present and future technologies, however, the drivers, SDK's, API's, what have you, currently are not updated fast enough to take advantage of them.

[RonnyB]

I think this thread kinda got off topic a little but I will add there is a subsection of console users I think we can agree nobody likes and the decent ones get lumped in with.

You know, the ones screaming into their mics how they just pwned u. The ones spewing the N word and "come at me bro!" every 5 seconds.

We used to have our fair share of them but thankfully they seem to have largely migrated to consoles. So on behalf of PC users, I thank you guys for taking them off our hands.

[Lazurukeel]

Tablet gaming tapped into previously untapped niches. It doesn't take away from the already established, and still massive PC market.

[Lazurukeel]

RonnyB wrote...

I think this thread kinda got off topic a little but I will add there is a subsection of console users I think we can agree nobody likes and the decent ones get lumped in with.

You know, the ones screaming into their mics how they just pwned u. The ones spewing the N word and "come at me bro!" every 5 seconds.

We used to have our fair share of them but thankfully they seem to have largely migrated to consoles. So on behalf of PC users, I thank you guys for taking them off our hands.

They would be the console gamers that even us console gamers dislike.

[GallowsPole]

RonnyB wrote...

I think this thread kinda got off topic a little but I will add there is a subsection of console users I think we can agree nobody likes and the decent ones get lumped in with.

You know, the ones screaming into their mics how they just pwned u. The ones spewing the N word and "come at me bro!" every 5 seconds.

We used to have our fair share of them but thankfully they seem to have largely migrated to consoles. So on behalf of PC users, I thank you guys for taking them off our hands.

Sometimes I dont even like my own kids.

[Beelzebubs]

Lazurukeel wrote...

Tablet gaming tapped into previously untapped niches. It doesn't take away from the already established, and still massive PC market.

It may actually help when games companies start using tablets with PC's in much the same way as the WiiU will. They are already relatively useful for things such as stylus/remotes.

[Dokteur Kill]

GallowsPole wrote...
No the drivers are not written by the game developers, but they have to be tested and implented and usually thats on the lower end of the scale as opposed to the latest and greatest so a vast majority of people can play it. Maybe I wasnt clear enough. I tend to babble. All I meant was, even though, yes, game manufacturers roll out software capable of running present and future technologies, however, the drivers, SDK's, API's, what have you, currently are not updated fast enough to take advantage of them.

Erm. Dude, if there's one segment of the PC industry that's really pushing boundaries, it's the GPU manufacturers. And both AMD and nVidia update their drivers several times per year, and often cooperate closely with major game developers to ensure that they deliver the features that developers want.

[XCPTNL]

Because consoles are holding back the technical evolution of gaming in general. The current generation of consoles is outdated for so long now and games could be much better (not just look better) if the hardware was up to date with PC hardware. We often have to deal with ****ty console ports because consoles are where most of the money is made unfortunately.

So in Mass Effect for example we don't have high resolution textures. We have one button that does 31237123012 things in the game when we could actually have just several keys for that on PC. We have a stupid FOV of 70 which we have to change manually. We don't have proper mouse settings like any good PC or well-ported FPS or TPS game has. We can't have a difficulty mode in MP that let's us fight 30 trash mobs at the same time because the consoles could not handle it so instead we get boss mode in Platinum. Damn, they even cut the weapon holster animation to save some memory space (not that I really care about weapon holstering in SP, I just say this because it shows how much these old consoles limit game development). I can continue this list but I guess everyone gets my point.

My freaking smartphone has 4x the RAM of a Playstation and still they MS and Sony refuse to update their consoles and we probably won't see a new generation until late 2013 or early 2014 and when they finally launch the hardware will already be outdated again because they can't sell consoles at 1000$ a piece. Well technically they could but they won't.

Aside from that (being the main reason for some console hating) no veteran gamer who has been playing games for decades would switch a mouse and keyboard for a gamepad for a lot of the games, especially FPS, TPS, RTS, RPG, MMO... Why is this a problem? Well... see above. ****ty ports, double, triple and quadruple use of a single key because of limits from the console/gamepad side of things. I play some games with a gamepad on PC as well but those games are a minority.

[Lazurukeel]

Beelzebubs wrote...

Lazurukeel wrote...

Tablet gaming tapped into previously untapped niches. It doesn't take away from the already established, and still massive PC market.

It may actually help when games companies start using tablets with PC's in much the same way as the WiiU will. They are already relatively useful for things such as stylus/remotes.

If they include smartphones as well, they have the potential to retap that entire market without diminishing the PC gaming market, just combining it. There was the Datapad that seemed like a rudimentary introduction to such integration.

[loungeshep]

They're just jealous because we only spent upwards of 300 bucks on our consoles (sometimes less!) whereas they blew several thousand on a PC just to play a game.

Now if I were to blow several thousand it'd be for a professional editing system at home i.e. Avid. Or...Avid. Just Avid. I've grown to hate Final Cut.

[Lazurukeel]

Korjyan wrote...

Because consoles are holding back the technical evolution of gaming in general. The current generation of consoles is outdated for so long now and games could be much better (not just look better) if the hardware was up to date with PC hardware. We often have to deal with ****ty console ports because consoles are where most of the money is made unfortunately.

So in Mass Effect for example we don't have high resolution textures. We have one button that does 31237123012 things in the game when we could actually have just several keys for that on PC. We have a stupid FOV of 70 which we have to change manually. We don't have proper mouse settings like any good PC or well-ported FPS or TPS game has. We can't have a difficulty mode in MP that let's us fight 30 trash mobs at the same time because the consoles could not handle it so instead we get boss mode in Platinum. Damn, they even cut the weapon holster animation to save some memory space (not that I really care about weapon holstering in SP, I just say this because it shows how much these old consoles limit game development). I can continue this list but I guess everyone gets my point.

My freaking smartphone has 4x the RAM of a Playstation and still they MS and Sony refuse to update their consoles and we probably won't see a new generation until late 2013 or early 2014 and when they finally launch the hardware will already be outdated again because they can't sell consoles at 1000$ a piece. Well technically they could but they won't.

Aside from that (being the main reason for some console hating) no veteran gamer who has been playing games for decades would switch a mouse and keyboard for a gamepad for a lot of the games, especially FPS, TPS, RTS, RPG, MMO... Why is this a problem? Well... see above. ****ty ports, double, triple and quadruple use of a single key because of limits from the console/gamepad side of things. I play some games with a gamepad on PC as well but those games are a minority.

This is also dependant upon the decisions of individual companies. Compare Battlefield 3 PC to Battlefield 3 on a console. Even if you install the HD textures for the console, it won't match the beauty of the PC version. DICE has shown that a company can make the most of both hardware sets if they choose to and/or have the funds to.

[BoomDynamite]

I'm on Xbox, and I even say PC is the master race.

[SimulatedSnowman]

BoomDynamite wrote...

I'm on Xbox, and I even say PC is the master race.

INDOCTRINATED

[GallowsPole]

Dokteur Kill wrote...

GallowsPole wrote...
No the drivers are not written by the game developers, but they have to be tested and implented and usually thats on the lower end of the scale as opposed to the latest and greatest so a vast majority of people can play it. Maybe I wasnt clear enough. I tend to babble. All I meant was, even though, yes, game manufacturers roll out software capable of running present and future technologies, however, the drivers, SDK's, API's, what have you, currently are not updated fast enough to take advantage of them.

Erm. Dude, if there's one segment of the PC industry that's really pushing boundaries, it's the GPU manufacturers. And both AMD and nVidia update their drivers several times per year, and often cooperate closely with major game developers to ensure that they deliver the features that developers want.

Yes as it always has been. Now get that implemented into Windows. How many times have you purchased new hardware, only to find that there are no new drivers for it. And, even if there are, will it still work in Windows. Not everyone has nVidia either. So what I am trying to say, is that from development, to testing, to Gold, to market, and finally in your home, there is already a patch or a patch in development to take care of it. And THAT takes alot of dough and why PC gaming has gone downhill compared to consoles. It takes money to keep up whereas not so much on consoles.

[Lazurukeel]

To be honest, I believe PC definitely does it all better. Much better.

But my XBox does it easier. It's the ultimate plug and play.

Also, I went with what my friends had, cos you know, co-op is the best.

[GallowsPole]

Thats why BF3 and CoD are making you pay for DLC. They went the route of better eyecandy.

[Beelzebubs]

loungeshep wrote...

They're just jealous because we only spent upwards of 300 bucks on our consoles (sometimes less!) whereas they blew several thousand on a PC just to play a game.

Now if I were to blow several thousand it'd be for a professional editing system at home i.e. Avid. Or...Avid. Just Avid. I've grown to hate Final Cut.

Several thousand just to play games? Hell I could frankenstein some parts from old machines worth about £200 that could play ME3.

You don't need to spend thousands to have a gaming rig, you can build a perfectly good one for £600 that will still be able to run "next gen" games. Also it's not just about playing games, you can use it for other things as well.

You have to understand that most high end gamers will only end up spending big money every 10 or so years, every few years maybe, they'll upgrade their RAM/CPU/Motherboard/GPU but you won't need to replace a lot of the parts, the case/cooling system will be fine, the PSU, the older hard drives (unless you want to buy an SSD) are still all "viable".

My biggest gaming expense a year on my PC is buying new mice/keyboards due to accidents with beer/coffee.

[Catastrophy]

It makes us feel good to imagine we're superior.

Personally I hate it when I see somebody on the forum that might be a good mate to play with and it turns out it's a console guy who doesn't take any invite from me.
Pff, if you like to stick to yourselves, go ahead, I don't need you elitists.

[FAButzke]

Ravenmyste wrote...

^
this wins all arguments on this
issue and subject regardless of what everyone thinks its matter what
you want to pay for and what you can afford if you want to have bleeding
edge graphics and or have a job that requires us to have a need for
it...

basically consoles are for those who dont want to spend a
yearly pay check to get something that maybe outdated in 6 months to a
year. when buying a new computer

Actually, because of consoles, My 2008 PC can run all games with max settings and 30+ fps with  no problem.
Just to show you how wrong you are.

Beelzebubs wrote...

count_4 wrote...

Crimson-Engage wrote...

Who cares? Just remember where the ME series started. The Xbox. PC better be lucky they even get their slimy fat little fingers on our game.

And now, for the fun of thought, we think about where BioWare started. 

Shhh they'll counter with where EA started.

Actually, EA started on computers as well. Crimson-Engage argument is invalid on all fronts.

Korjyan wrote...

Because consoles are holding back the
technical evolution of gaming in general. The current generation of
consoles is outdated for so long now and games could be much better (not
just look better) if the hardware was up to date with PC hardware. We
often have to deal with ****ty console ports because consoles are where
most of the money is made unfortunately.

So in Mass Effect for
example we don't have high resolution textures. We have one button that
does 31237123012 things in the game when we could actually have just
several keys for that on PC. We have a stupid FOV of 70 which we have to
change manually. We don't have proper mouse settings like any good PC
or well-ported FPS or TPS game has. We can't have a difficulty mode in
MP that let's us fight 30 trash mobs at the same time because the
consoles could not handle it so instead we get boss mode in Platinum.
Damn, they even cut the weapon holster animation to save some memory
space (not that I really care about weapon holstering in SP, I just say
this because it shows how much these old consoles limit game
development). I can continue this list but I guess everyone gets my
point.

My freaking smartphone has 4x the RAM of a Playstation and
still they MS and Sony refuse to update their consoles and we probably
won't see a new generation until late 2013 or early 2014 and when they
finally launch the hardware will already be outdated again because they
can't sell consoles at 1000$ a piece. Well technically they could but
they won't.

Aside from that (being the main reason for some
console hating) no veteran gamer who has been playing games for decades
would switch a mouse and keyboard for a gamepad for a lot of the games,
especially FPS, TPS, RTS, RPG, MMO... Why is this a problem? Well... see
above. ****ty ports, double, triple and quadruple use of a single key
because of limits from the console/gamepad side of things. I play some
games with a gamepad on PC as well but those games are a minority.

Where's the +rep button?

Modifié par FAButzke, 26 juillet 2012 - 01:48 .

[RonnyB]

GallowsPole wrote...

Dokteur Kill wrote...

GallowsPole wrote...
No the drivers are not written by the game developers, but they have to be tested and implented and usually thats on the lower end of the scale as opposed to the latest and greatest so a vast majority of people can play it. Maybe I wasnt clear enough. I tend to babble. All I meant was, even though, yes, game manufacturers roll out software capable of running present and future technologies, however, the drivers, SDK's, API's, what have you, currently are not updated fast enough to take advantage of them.

Erm. Dude, if there's one segment of the PC industry that's really pushing boundaries, it's the GPU manufacturers. And both AMD and nVidia update their drivers several times per year, and often cooperate closely with major game developers to ensure that they deliver the features that developers want.

Yes as it always has been. Now get that implemented into Windows. How many times have you purchased new hardware, only to find that there are no new drivers for it. And, even if there are, will it still work in Windows. Not everyone has nVidia either. So what I am trying to say, is that from development, to testing, to Gold, to market, and finally in your home, there is already a patch or a patch in development to take care of it. And THAT takes alot of dough and why PC gaming has gone downhill compared to consoles. It takes money to keep up whereas not so much on consoles.

Fun fact: It costs 40,000 for a developer to release a patch Xbox and PS3. PC - Next to nothing. I'd venture to guess that's one of the reasons we have buggy games for so long. They wait and try and cram as many fixes into a patch as possible to save money. A lot of times once they stop selling X ammount of units they stop releasing patches all together and leave the game unfixed for good. I mean why would they blow 40K on a game that's not making them money anymore? Bleh.

[Beelzebubs]

FAButzke wrote...

Ravenmyste wrote...

^
this wins all arguments on this
issue and subject regardless of what everyone thinks its matter what
you want to pay for and what you can afford if you want to have bleeding
edge graphics and or have a job that requires us to have a need for
it...

basically consoles are for those who dont want to spend a
yearly pay check to get something that maybe outdated in 6 months to a
year. when buying a new computer

Actually, because of consoles, My 2008 PC can run all games with max settings and 30+ fps with  no problem.
Just to show you how wrong you are.

Beelzebubs wrote...

count_4 wrote...

Crimson-Engage wrote...

Who cares? Just remember where the ME series started. The Xbox. PC better be lucky they even get their slimy fat little fingers on our game.

And now, for the fun of thought, we think about where BioWare started. 

Shhh they'll counter with where EA started.

Actually, EA started on computers as well. Crimson-Engage argument is invalid on all fronts.

I know That's why we don't mention where EA started out!

[Lazurukeel]

Beelzebubs wrote...

Several thousand just to play games? Hell I could frankenstein some parts from old machines worth about £200 that could play ME3.

I recently did just this actually. I needed to get a new motherboard and a graphics card, though. All up it cost me $200 ($100 of that being for the board, since I had to search around for 1156 pin). Not a super computer but it'll play all the indie games I have, most of the latest ones, and run the modeling/animation software just fine.

[mcjihge2]

PCs are for spreadsheets, solitaire, farmville and internet porn. Consoles are for proper games like the mass effect, pacman and netflix.

[Dokteur Kill]

GallowsPole wrote...
Yes as it always has been. Now get that implemented into Windows. How many times have you purchased new hardware, only to find that there are no new drivers for it.

Never.

I had to go to the chipset manufacturer's site instead of the card manufacturer's site to get a driver for a wireless network card once. That's it.

And, even if there are, will it still work in Windows.

Erm. Assuming the drivers work, why shouldn't it? If there's one thing that's problematic, it's older hardware.

Not everyone has nVidia either.

Well, no. But if you're planning on gaming on the PC, there really are only two realistic alternatives for GPUs. Intel isn't really in the running for the performance throne. They've never bothered to aim for it.

So what I am trying to say, is that from development, to testing, to Gold, to market, and finally in your home, there is already a patch or a patch in development to take care of it. And THAT takes alot of dough and why PC gaming has gone downhill compared to consoles. It takes money to keep up whereas not so much on consoles.

Eh? As if the verification required to release updates on the consoles is free? And it's not as if the profit margin is impressive on consoles, since the console manufacturers take their share of the income. Multiplatform games typically have higher profit margins on PC.