284 réponses à ce sujet

[Ageless Face]

Bill Casey wrote...

And yet everyone is fine with the Reapers...

You can only make peace with your enemies...

Anyway, that's not the point. If people have emotions in synthesis, they are individuals. If they wouldn't have emotions but have different thoughts, then they would also be individuals. If they didn't have niether, then they are not individuals. But the do, and they are.

[gorezeelar]

 It doesn't make any sense to have forever an eternal peace. I think that organics will never have to worry about created synthetic threats; that's all.

Synthetics, according to the godchild, Legion, Thane and Javik, always have a purpose, while organics search for them. For that reason, they will not stop until all organics are dead. So they are the greatest threat in the galaxy.

Species like krogans and vorchas, who are inherently aggresive, or humans, who are inherently greedy and ever expanding; won't sit watching the turians and salarians pushing them around (for krogans), or watching the asari take half the galaxy as colonies(for humans).

Oh there will be war, just not between synthetics and organics

[Ageless Face]

dreman9999 wrote...
They are implanted with reaper tech to the very dna.

Who said it was reaper tech? All we know is that there is a DNA merge between synthetics and organics (don't ask me. I don't know how synthetics have DNA). 

[silentassassin264]

Synthesis would indeed make things great and a massive advancement but it is not necessarily a golden age. Making things just life is all fine and dandy but synthetics versus organics is not the only conflict that can arise. All advanced life on Earth is human and we still have conflict. There is nothing to say that a Cerberus-esque group will feel their race is superior and try to become the Protheans on this cycle. There are still resources that are needed, especially with everyone being more integrated to tech advancements. There is still reason to fight after synthesis has been achieved. Sure the resulting conflicts will not result in the the destruction of all organics but it is rather naive to think synthesis would make a utopia (not that I am saying anyone in the thread is suggesting that. Just rambling)

[fr33stylez]

Well to be more specific, synthesis is presented as some weird permanant solution to the 'inevitable' problem of synthetics wiping out organics. The solutions as a whole don't cover other types of conflicts, thus we hould limit 'utopia' only as to refers to the alleged 'synthesis vs. organic' conflict.

With that in mind, I still don't see how merging all organics and synthetics into one by magic solves the 'synthetic vs. organics' issue. Unless the game was playing semantics, as now the new issue will be 'hybrids vs. synthetics' as nothing stops individuals from creating AIs.

In conclusion, it's all very stupid.

[Ieldra]

I just knew this "indoctrination" thing would come up. It's just so easy to dismiss everything by postulating an invisible, unknowable effect. There is not a shred of evidence for that,

Modifié par Ieldra2, 26 juillet 2012 - 08:00 .

[Taboo]

Ieldra2 wrote...

I just knew this "indoctrination" thing would come up. It's just so easy to dismiss everything by postulating an invisible, unknowable effect. There is not a shred of evidence for that,

And it isn't my fault!

Hurray!

[Ieldra]

HagarIshay wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
They are implanted with reaper tech to the very dna.

Who said it was reaper tech? All we know is that there is a DNA merge between synthetics and organics (don't ask me. I don't know how synthetics have DNA).

First, that "new DNA" was always metaphorical. Second, the EC retconned that. Synthetics are now said to gain full understanding of organics. That sounds more like a software upgrade. Now only organics are changed physically. Apparently the ridiculousness of the concept of a hybrid biochemistry got through to the writers.

[Ieldra]

silentassassin264 wrote...
Synthesis would indeed make things great and a massive advancement but it is not necessarily a golden age. Making things just life is all fine and dandy but synthetics versus organics is not the only conflict that can arise. All advanced life on Earth is human and we still have conflict. There is nothing to say that a Cerberus-esque group will feel their race is superior and try to become the Protheans on this cycle. There are still resources that are needed, especially with everyone being more integrated to tech advancements. There is still reason to fight after synthesis has been achieved. Sure the resulting conflicts will not result in the the destruction of all organics but it is rather naive to think synthesis would make a utopia (not that I am saying anyone in the thread is suggesting that. Just rambling)

I agree with you. Synthesis doesn't *necessarily* result in a golden age and not in a utopia. But the EC epilogue shows the post-Synthesis galaxy as having a golden age, at least within the indefinite time frame the epilogue covers. That's why the argument popped up in the first place. 

Modifié par Ieldra2, 26 juillet 2012 - 08:07 .

[Ageless Face]

Ieldra2 wrote...
First, that "new DNA" was always metaphorical. Second, the EC retconned that. Synthetics are now said to gain full understanding of organics. That sounds more like a software upgrade. Now only organics are changed physically. Apparently the ridiculousness of the concept of a hybrid biochemistry got through to the writers.

Okay, that makes more sense. Thanks for clearing that up

[Taboo]

Ieldra, the rebuilding takes place ten to fifteen years to complete.

You have definitive "Golden Age" for that time.

[dreman9999]

HagarIshay wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
They are implanted with reaper tech to the very dna.

Who said it was reaper tech? All we know is that there is a DNA merge between synthetics and organics (don't ask me. I don't know how synthetics have DNA). 

What other tech are they using? It's the starchild/reapers that is applying the conceptand came up with the idea and knows how to do it. That mean they are the ones in control to how it's used in synthesis. iT'S THEIR TECH. And it's not merging with dna. We are shown a clear image of what it does. It's implatation.

[Ieldra]

Taboo-XX wrote...
Ieldra, the rebuilding takes place ten to fifteen years to complete.

You have definitive "Golden Age" for that time.

I agree that there is a golden age for some time. But where is it said that it's 10-15 years? I don't exactly mind that timeframe, but I don't see anything like it mentioned in the game, and I don't have to take as canon what the Bioware people say. Just as a matter of principle - let the work speak for itself.  

Also, 15 years of rebuilding? Oh my, too many Sci-Fi writers have no sense of scale, and Bioware is among the worst offenders.

[Taboo]

Don't look at me.

Bioware said at the SDCC that the time frame for rebuilding everything was ten to fifteen years.

I would imagine it takes a full fifteen in Destroy.

I think they did it to pull people out of the whole "Dark Age" nonsense.

[dreman9999]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Don't look at me.

Bioware said at the SDCC that the time frame for rebuilding everything was ten to fifteen years.

I would imagine it takes a full fifteen in Destroy.

I think they did it to pull people out of the whole "Dark Age" nonsense.

Sounds like they want to do a new post reaper war ME game.

[Ageless Face]

dreman9999 wrote...
What other tech are they using? It's the starchild/reapers that is applying the conceptand came up with the idea and knows how to do it. That mean they are the ones in control to how it's used in synthesis. iT'S THEIR TECH. And it's not merging with dna. We are shown a clear image of what it does. It's implatation.

It's a technology that passed down many cycles. Could have been very advanced. The catalyst only presents to you the choices in the Crucible. I don't really remeber very well the whole conversation, but the catalyst didn't seem to know too much about the Crucible. And I doubt the catalyst or the creators of the reapers would have created a device for someone else to control their toys, or destroy them. Why creating a seperate device? They could have easily installed something inside the catalyst.

Anyway, the idea that it's reaper tech is pure specualtion. Nowhere near a fact.

Modifié par HagarIshay, 26 juillet 2012 - 08:23 .

[Ieldra]

Taboo-XX wrote...
Don't look at me.

Bioware said at the SDCC that the time frame for rebuilding everything was ten to fifteen years.

I would imagine it takes a full fifteen in Destroy.

I think they did it to pull people out of the whole "Dark Age" nonsense.

I know what Bioware said. I just don't take it as Word of God. Probably best for them to err on the positive side of plausibility, since so many people are determined to always assume the worst. Thematically, Destroy should have been much worse than the other two, but I guess they didn't want to ****** of the majority again and so made things more balanced.

[The_Shootist]

dreman9999 wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Rats can be controlled remotely by tapping into their brains and manipulating the reward centers of their brains...

Lifton studied thought reform in Chinese and Korean camps in the 50s, and it is largely reliant on the subject's emotional state in order to work...

There are people who have survived brain cancer and have no emotional centers in their brains...

Your point is?

I said emotions are one of the things that makes you individual. Not the only one. People also have different thoughts and preferences, with emotions or without them.

Indoctrination is a physical and psycoligical form of control. It basicly rewrites your nerions. Implants do it as well.
Your basicly letting the reaper implant everyone.

[Bill Casey]

Ieldra2 wrote...

First, that "new DNA" was always metaphorical. Second, the EC retconned that.

[RadicalDisconnect]

Bill Casey wrote...

And yet everyone is fine with the Reapers...

Same thing in control. How would you explain that?

[Bill Casey]

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

And yet everyone is fine with the Reapers...

Same thing in control. How would you explain that?

Without getting into IT?

[Ageless Face]

RadicalDisconnect wrote...
Same thing in control. How would you explain that?

There is a reason why control is called control.

The reapers are under control. They won't hurt anyone unless you want them to.

Modifié par HagarIshay, 26 juillet 2012 - 08:29 .

[dreman9999]

HagarIshay wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
What other tech are they using? It's the starchild/reapers that is applying the conceptand came up with the idea and knows how to do it. That mean they are the ones in control to how it's used in synthesis. iT'S THEIR TECH. And it's not merging with dna. We are shown a clear image of what it does. It's implatation.

It's a technology that passed down many cycles. Could have been very advanced. The catalyst only presents to you the choices in the Crucible. I doubt the catalyst or the creators of the reapers would have created a device for someone else to control their toys, or destroy them. 

Nothing is more advaced then the reapers. This is something meant to stop them and lt only  came about because of them. It's the only option the catalyst controls. It is indoctrination. But note this, the reapers and the star child are show to not have ill intetes with it, being that they onlt want peice with organics and synthetics. The only problem with it is that it's forced on everyone else.After it's used, no one is the wiser to their personalliy change. This is just like rewriting the geth inlegions mission.
 Basicly, it's wong but after it's used no one who would care would be left.

[RadicalDisconnect]

Bill Casey wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

And yet everyone is fine with the Reapers...

Same thing in control. How would you explain that?

Without getting into IT?

Yeah. Honestly, IT just isn't what Bioware intended, and it shows.

@HagarIshay
It's the whole synthesis = brainwashing argument that I'm not buying.

Modifié par RadicalDisconnect, 26 juillet 2012 - 08:30 .