284 réponses à ce sujet

[RadicalDisconnect]

dreman9999 wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

maaaze wrote...

i agree with the OP.

It will be not an Utopia...conflict along species lines will be a thing of the past...
but there will be still different Ideologies based on what is valued the most.

There will be still conflict...it will just not be based on physical differences.

I don't thinks so. I feel the race are indoctrinated to coesistence bythe reapers and the crucible.

Well considering that if things don't go well, the nieghborhood watch Reaper would toast you, your family, and your dog, yeah, it's gonna be a crap Utopia.

But they don't need to do that. All they have to do is up load a be happy code into your implants and you'll be coantroled.
Whatyour say only happens in control.

You say that as if it's presented as fact. That's just your speculation. Here's food for thought. If the all the races are indoctrinated, then why do the reapers even bother helping with the reconstruction? Wouldn't it be a big waste of eezo?

[Ticonderoga117]

dreman9999 wrote...

But they don't need to do that. All they have to do is up load a be happy code into your implants and you'll be coantroled.
Whatyour say only happens in control.

Oh right, I forgot that in Synthesis we ALL BECOME HUSKS 2.0.

Gee, who thought this was a brilliant idea?

[Jadebaby]

The Reapers are helping society rebuild and everyone's just dandy with that?

Yea.. It's utopia.

[Jassu1979]

The way Bioware portrays it, you are supposed to think of Synthesis as a Utopia, or at least the beginning of a Golden Age.

But thinking about it, I, for one, find that it's either an altogether ineffectual solution to the problem at hand (for if people are still the same and just have a few cybernetic implants on the nanotech level, then there's no reason why things should not unfold the way they did before), and at worst leads to a horrendous dystopia of streamlined, homogenized pseudo-life.

Modifié par Jassu1979, 26 juillet 2012 - 09:15 .

[Jassu1979]

If a krogan is still a krogan, and a reaper is still a reaper, and the only thing that has changed is that they are now both partially synthetic and organic, then things will be exactly as they were before.

The source of the galactic problems was never the kind of space racism the Starchild cited as his reason.

[Mazebook]

dreman9999 wrote...

maaaze wrote...

i agree with the OP.

It will be not an Utopia...conflict along species lines will be a thing of the past...
but there will be still different Ideologies based on what is valued the most.

There will be still conflict...it will just not be based on physical differences.

I don't thinks so. I feel the race are indoctrinated to coesistence bythe reapers and the crucible.

If we believe what edi tells us there no indication, as i see it , that the people have no free will anymore.

How do you come to this conclusion?

Modifié par maaaze, 26 juillet 2012 - 09:30 .

[RadicalDisconnect]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

But they don't need to do that. All they have to do is up load a be happy code into your implants and you'll be coantroled.
Whatyour say only happens in control.

Oh right, I forgot that in Synthesis we ALL BECOME HUSKS 2.0.

Gee, who thought this was a brilliant idea?

Oh boy, husks 2.0 huh? Please don't present your speculation as fact. There's nothing in synthesis that even remotely suggests that everyone has been turned into husks... <_<

[Ticonderoga117]

maaaze wrote...

If we believe what edi tells us there no indication, as i see it , that the people have no free will anymore.

How do you come to this conclusion?

TIM thought he still had free will, until Shepard called him out.

[Ticonderoga117]

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

Oh boy, husks 2.0 huh? Please don't present your speculation as fact. There's nothing in synthesis that even remotely suggests that everyone has been turned into husks... <_<

Yeah. Let's see, we all get merged with synthetic implants on a molecular level or deeper, and the Reapers are still around. They have unparalleled hacking abilities and indoctrinate everyone by just being there.

Yeah, we're husks now.

[RadicalDisconnect]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

Oh boy, husks 2.0 huh? Please don't present your speculation as fact. There's nothing in synthesis that even remotely suggests that everyone has been turned into husks... <_<

Yeah. Let's see, we all get merged with synthetic implants on a molecular level or deeper, and the Reapers are still around. They have unparalleled hacking abilities and indoctrinate everyone by just being there.

Yeah, we're husks now.

That's a big leap of logic there. Shepard has a bunch of cybernetic implants. Is he more susceptible to indoctrination? Oh, and reapers are still around in control. Who's to say Shreapers don't indoctrinate people as well?

[Abraham_uk]

Jassu1979 wrote...

The way Bioware portrays it, you are supposed to think of Synthesis as a Utopia, or at least the beginning of a Golden Age.

But thinking about it, I, for one, find that it's either an altogether ineffectual solution to the problem at hand (for if people are still the same and just have a few cybernetic implants on the nanotech level, then there's no reason why things should not unfold the way they did before), and at worst leads to a horrendous dystopia of streamlined, homogenized pseudo-life.

No everyone remains more or less as they were before.
But synthetics have enhanced emotions and can feel alive (apparantly).
Everyone glows green.

Also everyone is really bad at dancing, and has awkward and stiff mannerisms.

[Ticonderoga117]

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

That's a big leap of logic there. Shepard has a bunch of cybernetic implants. Is he more susceptible to indoctrination? Oh, and reapers are still around in control. Who's to say Shreapers don't indoctrinate people as well?

Were they put there by a magical wave of green energy from a Reaper device?
And Shreapers probably still do.

[J.Random]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Many people don't like Synthesis for its utopian aspects. Others see that many Synthesis apologists passionately reject the notion that Synthesis results in an utopia, and don't understand why. I think this is an aspect of Synthesis that deserves its own topic.

Utopia? Impossible.

First, no more biological evolution. Everyone is stuck where they were at the moment. Sure, there may be an evolution of mind itself, but not for long, because...
Second, overpopulation. In a slideshow you see krogan babies, but EDI says something about "surpassing mortality itself". Even on Earth alone 4 childs are born every second today. On a galactic scale this will lead to exponential population growth. This will lead to extremely fast colonization. Every day thousands, maybe millions will have to move to new worlds.
Third, economical collapse. You see, on every given world resources are not unlimited. Just as fast as new colonies will be created, old colonies will run out of resources.
Fourth, "surpassing mortality" will definitely change morality. On one hand, noone will want to lose his infinite life, on another, some people will find perverted joy in taking other people lives. Or they will just fight for resources.
All of the above will lead to wars, genocides, maybe even some ugly intergalactic laws like "one child per infinite life" or "you may give a new life but then you should end yours". Galaxy will become a weird violent place - even more violent than in pre-ME-ending time. That's disgusting future, to say the least.

[Lord Goose]

I think, that Synthesis makes people understand, that Reapers were not doing this willingly, nor they had choice, and they were practically tools for ancient AI. And its true understanding, without any kind of suspicious.

After that it is kind of hard to be angry at them, I think.

[Lord Goose]

Utopia? Impossible.

Synthesis practically makes everyone elves. You know, those immortal, superpowerful on individual-basis, wise and uplifted, artistic and morally infallible elves from old fantasy books.

[Bill Casey]

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

Oh, and reapers are still around in control. Who's to say Shreapers don't indoctrinate people as well?

I thought that was implied with end speech about the "full potential" of his decision, and "there is wisdom in using the strengths of your enemies"

Modifié par Bill Casey, 26 juillet 2012 - 09:53 .

[RadicalDisconnect]

Bill Casey wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

Oh, and reapers are still around in control. Who's to say Shreapers don't indoctrinate people as well?

I thought that was implied with end speech about the "full potential" of his decision, and "there is wisdom in using the strengths of your enemies"

That's one interpretation, and it's no more valid than assuming that Shreapers act as galactic guardians in a laissez faire manner.

[Lord Goose]

I thought that was implied with end speech about the "full
potential"

Full potential only comes out in Renegade version of the speech. Also, any kind of Shepard considered this to be abhorrent, and where is no real need to use it.

[Mazebook]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

maaaze wrote...

If we believe what edi tells us there no indication, as i see it , that the people have no free will anymore.

How do you come to this conclusion?

TIM thought he still had free will, until Shepard called him out.

but there is no indication that the reapers have control over the people...

they all are doing different constuctive things. they seem to live their life in peace.

why would they indoctrinate?...to achive what goal?

[J.Random]

Lord Goose wrote...
artistic

[RadicalDisconnect]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

That's a big leap of logic there. Shepard has a bunch of cybernetic implants. Is he more susceptible to indoctrination? Oh, and reapers are still around in control. Who's to say Shreapers don't indoctrinate people as well?

Were they put there by a magical wave of green energy from a Reaper device?
And Shreapers probably still do.

There's no in game evidence to suggest whether they do or do not. Considering that most of the ending slides across the three endings are identical, my guess would be that no indoctrination is involved. In addition, if the reapers can indoctrinate, then why do they even bother helping with reconstruction? How does that even help them? What goal does that achieve?

[dreman9999]

maaaze wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

maaaze wrote...

i agree with the OP.

It will be not an Utopia...conflict along species lines will be a thing of the past...
but there will be still different Ideologies based on what is valued the most.

There will be still conflict...it will just not be based on physical differences.

I don't thinks so. I feel the race are indoctrinated to coesistence bythe reapers and the crucible.

If we believe what edi tells us there no indication, as i see it , that the people have no free will anymore.

How do you come to this conclusion?

The thing is, if a person is indoctrinated how would they ever know? They would not. THis is what happen to the heritic Geht if we rewrote them. They never suspected that we did write them. This is normal with evryone that's indoctrinated. Added, we really don't know what the reapers chnges in side of all organics. In doctriantion is it self is a physical and pschlogical change to organic minds or a rewrite of sysnthetic programing. The reaper have a history of this type of control and are the only once who have any understanding how synthesis is done. The starchild is also shown tohave no moral bases to how it salutions is applied.
Is see that it's the case because it themost clear cutway the catalyst has to making sure peace always stays. Indoctination in itself does nto destroy wills, it controls them with out the person knowing it.
Do we know it EDI is only happy because sheis programed to be happy?

Modifié par dreman9999, 26 juillet 2012 - 10:01 .

[Baa Baa]

No, I imagine a Deus Ex HR type of society. Tons of riots, suicides, just utter Chaos. But it's the cost of not being destroyed by reapers. I would have actually preferred it being presented that way instead of everything being happy. I mean really, Javik was fine with it... he DESPISES synthetics.

[dreman9999]

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

That's a big leap of logic there. Shepard has a bunch of cybernetic implants. Is he more susceptible to indoctrination? Oh, and reapers are still around in control. Who's to say Shreapers don't indoctrinate people as well?

Were they put there by a magical wave of green energy from a Reaper device?
And Shreapers probably still do.

There's no in game evidence to suggest whether they do or do not. Considering that most of the ending slides across the three endings are identical, my guess would be that no indoctrination is involved. In addition, if the reapers can indoctrinate, then why do they even bother helping with reconstruction? How does that even help them? What goal does that achieve?

You missing the point of the catalyst and the reapers. Their programing is to bring peace to organics and synthetics. They are helping becase it's thereprograming to help. Added the catalyst has no moral bases to prevent it from not doing this. It's absoult it following it programing no matter how immoral it seems to us. If the catalyst sees that mass indoctrination with the mass implants is the best way to ensure peace...It will do it.