284 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Your saying that after losing friend and family to the reapers, organics will suddenly just accept the reapers?
The factt hat they don't attack the reapers in syntheis is sign enough that they are indoctrianted.

The quarians lost friends and family to the geth. Of course the quarians can't just accept the geth right?

dreman9999 wrote...
He has no choice in the matter. It's his programing that is makinghim do that. He tells you he can't just stop the reaper and he can't just change himself.
If a machine tells you it can't stop killing because he is programed to kill  and ask you to reprogram it's programing to not kill and you refuse to, what do you think will happen? 

No choice? He is allowing you to choose destroy. He judges whether Shepard will make a choice or not.

ANd does he stop shepard if Shepard choosed destroy? No. That means he has no choice.

Modifié par dreman9999, 27 juillet 2012 - 12:06 .

[RadicalDisconnect]

dreman9999 wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

BatmanPWNS wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

BatmanPWNS wrote...

Utopia by brainwash, yes.

Care to explain?

I fail to see how turning everyone half organic- half synthetic will just make people all accept each other. People will still dislike something, people will still be racist, some people will still hate synthetics (E.G Javik). Yet we're just told everyone is super happy after synthesis. Unless their brainwashed, not everyone can be happy with this. In fact, in a real life scenerio, people would be very angry if this type of change happened.

People seemed to be just dandy with the reapers in control. As for super happy, if you don't have Wrex, the Krogan won't restart the rebellion, but they won't start rebuilding themselves either. Doesn't sound super happy to me. People may be angry about the effects of synthesis being forced upon them and I agree, it's one of the main reasons I dislike synthesis. That doesn't necessarily mean they'll be foolhardy enough to start attacking giant reapers.

That's a lack of vision not a not everyone is happy. Note no one attackes the repaers in synthesis....Why?

No one attacks the reapers in control...why?

[RadicalDisconnect]

dreman9999 wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Your saying that after losing friend and family to the reapers, organics will suddenly just accept the reapers?
The factt hat they don't attack the reapers in syntheis is sign enough that they are indoctrianted.

The quarians lost friends and family to the geth. Of course the quarians can't just accept the geth right?

dreman9999 wrote...
He has no choice in the matter. It's his programing that is makinghim do that. He tells you he can't just stop the reaper and he can't just change himself.
If a machine tells you it can't stop killing because he is programed to kill  and ask you to reprogram it's programing to not kill and you refuse to, what do you think will happen? 

No choice? He is allowing you to choose destroy. He judges whether Shepard will make a choice or not.

ANd does he stop him if Shepard choosed destroy? No. That means he has no choice.

Destroy is one of his solutions. He won't stop you if you chose it. He won't stop you if you chose synthesis. He won't stop you if you chose destroy. He'll continue the cycle if he thinks you won't make a choice. All endings are on his terms. He's giving you these choices.

Modifié par RadicalDisconnect, 27 juillet 2012 - 12:01 .

[dreman9999]

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

BatmanPWNS wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

BatmanPWNS wrote...

Utopia by brainwash, yes.

Care to explain?

I fail to see how turning everyone half organic- half synthetic will just make people all accept each other. People will still dislike something, people will still be racist, some people will still hate synthetics (E.G Javik). Yet we're just told everyone is super happy after synthesis. Unless their brainwashed, not everyone can be happy with this. In fact, in a real life scenerio, people would be very angry if this type of change happened.

People seemed to be just dandy with the reapers in control. As for super happy, if you don't have Wrex, the Krogan won't restart the rebellion, but they won't start rebuilding themselves either. Doesn't sound super happy to me. People may be angry about the effects of synthesis being forced upon them and I agree, it's one of the main reasons I dislike synthesis. That doesn't necessarily mean they'll be foolhardy enough to start attacking giant reapers.

That's a lack of vision not a not everyone is happy. Note no one attackes the repaers in synthesis....Why?

No one attacks the reapers in control...why?

Because they are fixing the mass relays and they know they are controled ...for now.

[dreman9999]

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Your saying that after losing friend and family to the reapers, organics will suddenly just accept the reapers?
The factt hat they don't attack the reapers in syntheis is sign enough that they are indoctrianted.

The quarians lost friends and family to the geth. Of course the quarians can't just accept the geth right?

dreman9999 wrote...
He has no choice in the matter. It's his programing that is makinghim do that. He tells you he can't just stop the reaper and he can't just change himself.
If a machine tells you it can't stop killing because he is programed to kill  and ask you to reprogram it's programing to not kill and you refuse to, what do you think will happen? 

No choice? He is allowing you to choose destroy. He judges whether Shepard will make a choice or not.

ANd does he stop him if Shepard choosed destroy? No. That means he has no choice.

Destroy is one of his solutions. He won't stop you if you chose it. He won't stop you if you chose synthesis. He won't stop you if you chose destroy. He'll continue the cycle if he thinks you won't make a choice. All endings are on his terms. He's giving you these choices.

Destroy and control is not his salutions. He has no control of any of the salutions out side of control. Control and destroy are choices that were decided by the past races. Remeber, he did not build the crucible or design it.

[RadicalDisconnect]

dreman9999 wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

BatmanPWNS wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

BatmanPWNS wrote...

Utopia by brainwash, yes.

Care to explain?

I fail to see how turning everyone half organic- half synthetic will just make people all accept each other. People will still dislike something, people will still be racist, some people will still hate synthetics (E.G Javik). Yet we're just told everyone is super happy after synthesis. Unless their brainwashed, not everyone can be happy with this. In fact, in a real life scenerio, people would be very angry if this type of change happened.

People seemed to be just dandy with the reapers in control. As for super happy, if you don't have Wrex, the Krogan won't restart the rebellion, but they won't start rebuilding themselves either. Doesn't sound super happy to me. People may be angry about the effects of synthesis being forced upon them and I agree, it's one of the main reasons I dislike synthesis. That doesn't necessarily mean they'll be foolhardy enough to start attacking giant reapers.

That's a lack of vision not a not everyone is happy. Note no one attackes the repaers in synthesis....Why?

No one attacks the reapers in control...why?

Because they are fixing the mass relays and they know they are controled ...for now.

How do they know the reapers are being controlled? And wouldn't the reapers in synthesis be doing the same thing? Again, double standards.

[dreman9999]

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

BatmanPWNS wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

BatmanPWNS wrote...

Utopia by brainwash, yes.

Care to explain?

I fail to see how turning everyone half organic- half synthetic will just make people all accept each other. People will still dislike something, people will still be racist, some people will still hate synthetics (E.G Javik). Yet we're just told everyone is super happy after synthesis. Unless their brainwashed, not everyone can be happy with this. In fact, in a real life scenerio, people would be very angry if this type of change happened.

People seemed to be just dandy with the reapers in control. As for super happy, if you don't have Wrex, the Krogan won't restart the rebellion, but they won't start rebuilding themselves either. Doesn't sound super happy to me. People may be angry about the effects of synthesis being forced upon them and I agree, it's one of the main reasons I dislike synthesis. That doesn't necessarily mean they'll be foolhardy enough to start attacking giant reapers.

That's a lack of vision not a not everyone is happy. Note no one attackes the repaers in synthesis....Why?

No one attacks the reapers in control...why?

Because they are fixing the mass relays and they know they are controled ...for now.

How do they know the reapers are being controlled? And wouldn't the reapers in synthesis be doing the same thing? Again, double standards.

Who says thear are not control in synthesis. In control we know that they are by some one with our interest. Synthesis, it's indoctrianation.

[RadicalDisconnect]

dreman9999 wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

That's a lack of vision not a not everyone is happy. Note no one attackes the repaers in synthesis....Why?

No one attacks the reapers in control...why?

Because they are fixing the mass relays and they know they are controled ...for now.

How do they know the reapers are being controlled? And wouldn't the reapers in synthesis be doing the same thing? Again, double standards.

Who says thear are not control in synthesis. In control we know that they are by some one with our interest. Synthesis, it's indoctrianation.

That is your speculation. Because it can also be that the reapers have free will. Or not. Either way, stop trying to push your headcanon as fact. There is no in-game evidence in the epilogue to suggest that, since its slides are almost identical to control.

As for the Catalyst, he presented the solutions to you. In fact, he won't give you some of the solutions if your EMS is too low.

Modifié par RadicalDisconnect, 27 juillet 2012 - 12:33 .

[dreman9999]

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

That's a lack of vision not a not everyone is happy. Note no one attackes the repaers in synthesis....Why?

No one attacks the reapers in control...why?

Because they are fixing the mass relays and they know they are controled ...for now.

How do they know the reapers are being controlled? And wouldn't the reapers in synthesis be doing the same thing? Again, double standards.

Who says thear are not control in synthesis. In control we know that they are by some one with our interest. Synthesis, it's indoctrianation.

That is your speculation. Because it can also be that the reapers have free will. Or not. Either way, stop trying to push your headcanon as fact. There is no in-game evidence in the epilogue to suggest that, since its slides are almost identical to control.

I'm basing this on the morality of the star child. If he sees away to ensure peace with organics and synthetics, he will do it. He has no moral bases that stops him from doing it.  What is stopping him from doing it?

[dreman9999]

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

That's a lack of vision not a not everyone is happy. Note no one attackes the repaers in synthesis....Why?

No one attacks the reapers in control...why?

Because they are fixing the mass relays and they know they are controled ...for now.

How do they know the reapers are being controlled? And wouldn't the reapers in synthesis be doing the same thing? Again, double standards.

Who says thear are not control in synthesis. In control we know that they are by some one with our interest. Synthesis, it's indoctrianation.

That is your speculation. Because it can also be that the reapers have free will. Or not. Either way, stop trying to push your headcanon as fact. There is no in-game evidence in the epilogue to suggest that, since its slides are almost identical to control.

As for the Catalyst, he presented the solutions to you. In fact, he won't give you some of the solutions if your EMS is too low.

He only persents control and destroy. He asks for your allowance for synthesis. The only reason why he offers synthesis because the crucible is build well enough to do it.

[Bill Casey]

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

As for the Catalyst, he presented the solutions to you. In fact, he won't give you some of the solutions if your EMS is too low.

He's also a complete dick to you if synthesis isn't available...

"Why are you here!"
"You bring it on yourselves!"
"...And I won't!"

Modifié par Bill Casey, 27 juillet 2012 - 12:42 .

[dreman9999]

Bill Casey wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

As for the Catalyst, he presented the solutions to you. In fact, he won't give you some of the solutions if your EMS is too low.

He's also a complete dick to you if synthesis isn't available...

"Why are you here!"
"You bring it on yourselves!"
"...And I won't!"

"..And I won' t" was cut out of low ems in EC.

And he is angry because he failed to do his programing. He did whathis programing was meant to stop.

[RadicalDisconnect]

dreman9999 wrote...

I'm basing this on the morality of the star child. If he sees away to ensure peace with organics and synthetics, he will do it. He has no moral bases that stops him from doing it.  What is stopping him from doing it?

Again, if he can brainwash all races into accepting each other, then why bother having the reapers help rebuild and even surpass "the greatness that was lost?" What's the motivation there? Would that be needless effort?

dreman9999 wrote...

He only persents control and destroy. He asks for your allowance for synthesis. The only reason why he offers synthesis because the crucible is build well enough to do it.

 

Did I mention that if you have low EMS and saved the Collector Base, your only option is control? In addition, when he allowed the cycle to continue, he turned off the beam and removed all options. Why would he do that if he didn't have a choice?

Modifié par RadicalDisconnect, 27 juillet 2012 - 01:19 .

[dreman9999]

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

I'm basing this on the morality of the star child. If he sees away to ensure peace with organics and synthetics, he will do it. He has no moral bases that stops him from doing it.  What is stopping him from doing it?

Again, if he can brainwash all races into accepting each other, then why bother having the reapers help rebuild and even surpass "the greatness that was lost?" What's the motivation there? Would that be needless effort?

dreman9999 wrote...

He only persents control and destroy. He asks for your allowance for synthesis. The only reason why he offers synthesis because the crucible is build well enough to do it.

 

Did I mention that if you have low EMS and saved the Collector Base, your only option is control? In addition, when he allowed the cycle to continue, he turned off the beam and removed all options. Why would he do that if he didn't have a choice?

1. because his programing is to oversee organic and synthetic relations and ensure peace.
2.With the first part, that shows he doesn't have control over want the crucible does. With refuse, he is doing what you told it to do. Your declined the choices so he turned it off for you.

[Genetic Destiny]

Ieldra2 wrote...

 Also, as many people have pointed out, there will inevitably be people who don't like what happened to them. How many of them there are is headcanon territory, but the assumption that nobody will object is just not plausible.

That makes me wonder if Shepard's closest friends would believe that he/she willingly chose Synthesis. They could assume that the reapers are trying to decieve them.

[o Ventus]

So just because "you can't see it" means it isn't what happens?

[Genetic Destiny]

o Ventus wrote...

So just because "you can't see it" means it isn't what happens?

That's directed towards me? If so, I'm assuming the "you can't see it" refers to Shep choosing Synthesis, and my reply is that Shep's closest friends know very well how deceitful the reapers can be.

[DirtyPhoenix]

dreman9999 wrote...

Who says thear are not control in synthesis. In control we know that they are by some one with our interest. Synthesis, it's indoctrianation.

How would you know? Were you there when Shepard chose control? They might even not know that its a different catalyst. For all they know, reaper-monsters suddenly turned friendly, rebuilding relays, taking a stroll down London and stuff. Same thing happens in Synthesis. But you consider that indoctrination and not control.

[Jassu1979]

At the end of the day, Synthesis is just another case of uplifting: handing nukes to cavemen, or FTL-tech to the krogans. Even the best case scenario will utterly shatter the involved cultures (just as modern-day tech has all but destroyed indigenous societies around the globe).

[Xandurpein]

It's really up to each and everyone's head canon to decide if Synthesis will be Utopia, dystopia or something in between. We have way too little reliable information about what this synthesis actually involves to say anything.

If you think that EDI seems happy about it, that doesn't prove anything. EDI is hardly a biased observer to begin with. Besides, you can easily dig up clips of happy young girls with joy in their eyes explaining what a wonderful bright future that awaits them in North Korea, Soviet Union or the German Reich, and they will be perfectly sincere.

Note that I'm not claiming that Synthesis will be a dystopian tyranny. Maybe it will really be wonderful. I just say that there's not enough information to say what it'll be. Go ahead and enjoy your head canon, but don't tell me there's enough proof to make any sort of reliable prediction.

Modifié par Xandurpein, 27 juillet 2012 - 10:25 .

[dreman9999]

pirate1802 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Who says thear are not control in synthesis. In control we know that they are by some one with our interest. Synthesis, it's indoctrianation.

How would you know? Were you there when Shepard chose control? They might even not know that its a different catalyst. For all they know, reaper-monsters suddenly turned friendly, rebuilding relays, taking a stroll down London and stuff. Same thing happens in Synthesis. But you consider that indoctrination and not control.

There's an image the epologue of conrol with Mirada working with the Shepar AI. So Yes, they know.

[Xandurpein]

pirate1802 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Who says thear are not control in synthesis. In control we know that they are by some one with our interest. Synthesis, it's indoctrianation.

How would you know? Were you there when Shepard chose control? They might even not know that its a different catalyst. For all they know, reaper-monsters suddenly turned friendly, rebuilding relays, taking a stroll down London and stuff. Same thing happens in Synthesis. But you consider that indoctrination and not control.

To be honest, Control is almost destined to become a huge arms race because no race will ever be content until they have built enough firepower to be able to match Reaper-Shepard's. It's not in our nature to accept other's having godly powers over us, regardless of whether they are supposedly benevolent or not.

[Volc19]

Honestly, Synthesis is a sort of Utopia. Not a very good sort, but a Utopia nonetheless.

All problems have been alieviated, all conflict has ended, all knowledge has been gathered, all differences have been assimilated away, and the end of evolution is brought on the Galaxy. There isn't anything left to gain, you are taken from the side of the mountain and placed at the top.

Synthesis is static. All problems have been instantly solved, and there is nothing left to gain, nothing to overcome and achieve. "All advancement due to overcoming limitations. Cant carry load, invent wheel. Can't catch food, invent spear. Limitations." Without those limitations, culture stagnates, as stated by the good doctor.

[Ieldra]

dreman9999 wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Who says thear are not control in synthesis. In control we know that they are by some one with our interest. Synthesis, it's indoctrianation.

How would you know? Were you there when Shepard chose control? They might even not know that its a different catalyst. For all they know, reaper-monsters suddenly turned friendly, rebuilding relays, taking a stroll down London and stuff. Same thing happens in Synthesis. But you consider that indoctrination and not control.

There's an image the epologue of conrol with Mirada working with the Shepar AI. So Yes, they know.

Strange how most Miranda fans interprete that as her working *against* the new overlords.

[Ieldra]

Volc19 wrote...
Honestly, Synthesis is a sort of Utopia. Not a very good sort, but a Utopia nonetheless.

All problems have been alieviated, all conflict has ended, all knowledge has been gathered, all differences have been assimilated away, and the end of evolution is brought on the Galaxy. There isn't anything left to gain, you are taken from the side of the mountain and placed at the top.

Synthesis is static. All problems have been instantly solved, and there is nothing left to gain, nothing to overcome and achieve. "All advancement due to overcoming limitations. Cant carry load, invent wheel. Can't catch food, invent spear. Limitations." Without those limitations, culture stagnates, as stated by the good doctor.

Except that it isn't. The prospect of ascension lies in the future, as does regaining the stars for the krogan if you sabotaged the cure. Yes, some limitations are overcome, but others are not, and who says new challenges won't present themselves.