284 réponses à ce sujet

[Oransel]

Synthesis is impossible from the Mass Effect lore perspective - so it does not matter what it will lead or not lead to. Should have never been introduced in the first place as it is insult to the intelligence.

If you are transhuman activist, well, I hope you do understand what a true Singularity means (as we are in ME forums, look at the Project Overlord. That is the closest you get to "synthesis")

[Sonashi]

May I add my 2 cents?

Yes, I agree that Synthesis doesn't mean utopia. Yes, the Reapers are now our friends and we gained a big knowledge from them, yes there is no more conflict between org. vs synth. But...BUT.... normal conflicts are still possible.  Nowhere in the endings was said there will be an eternal peace. Even the Catalyst didn't say that.

In synthesis all species gained very big power (better health etc.). That means future wars if there will be one will be more violent, agressive and probably there will be more casualties as well.  *points at Wreav and Yaghs*




@Ieldra2
You said that only organics were changed in Synthesis, well look at Edi's left arm. Does it look like skin? Yes it does.

About the Golden Age.

In every ending it will be achieved but in a different way. Soner or later but it will finally happen. So you can't blame synthesis for that.

And the last thing I want talk about. Many people here wonder what would , for example Javik, say to Shepard about choosing Synthesis. Well nothing is my answer. It's time to stop that nonsense. No one know what the Crucible is suppose to do. In the final mission all they know is that Shepard somehow activated the Crucible and some energy was released. What color of this energy doesn't matter to them. Shepard wouldn't be accused after that.

Thanks, I hope you can read it with no problem

Edit: I like make typos 

Modifié par Sonashi, 27 juillet 2012 - 12:06 .

[riesenwiesel]

For me, Synthesis is either a brainwashed "Utopia" or the non-brainwashed end of the galaxy.
Both scenarios are not worth picking.

[dorktainian]

For me (as it stands now) the best ending is 'refuse' followed by 'destroy'.

Did anyone ask us if we wanted to be forcably merged with synthetics? Why would I want to control the reapers?

Anything other than Refuse or Destroy would result in stagnation.

[Xellith]

EDI hasnt grown skin lol.. thats just light reflecting. EDI has green lines though. Fairly obvious to see as long as you are watching the correct ending sequence.

[Sonashi]

@Xellith

I know that. I've seen all of the endings. EDI hasn't grown skin in a cutscenes - yes. But in that specific scene she has. And it may be a light reflecting but BioWare did it on purpose. So it has to mean something.

I'd rather have that skin reflecting than green, freaky eyes and all that stuff

Modifié par Sonashi, 27 juillet 2012 - 12:25 .

[dreman9999]

Sonashi wrote...

@Xellith

I know that. I've seen all of the endings. EDI hasn't grown skin in a cutscenes - yes. But in that specific scene she has. And it may be a light reflecting but BioWare did it on purpose. So it has to mean something.

I'd rather have that skin reflecting than green, freaky eyes and all that stuff

That's sun light relection I hope you know.

[Jassu1979]

Why would synthesis broker peace between organic life and its synthetic creations to begin with?

This assumption alone stands on feet of clay. After all, looking at the real world, it's pretty irrelevant to us whether we all belong to the same species and share the same DNA: sure, racial pogromes (based on absurd, pseudo-scientific notions) have happened in the past, but they are hardly the only form of violent conflict.

If synthesis is supposed to signify a profound change within the very consciousness of its victims, then it effectively destroys the persons that existed before - kinda like the Shepard-based AI we see in the Control-conclusion: sharing the original host's memories, and yet a totally different being.

[elitehunter34]

I think it is utterly absurd that given the events of Mass Effect 1 and the nature of the Catalyst that Synthesis could result in anything other than mass Indoctrination. Yes, yes I know there is absolutely no hint of that in the EC, but that's a failure of the writers. They wanted Synthesis to be the "best" ending and this is clearly shown through the slideshow and the fact that Synthesis has the highest EMS requirement. They wanted it to the "perfect" solution to the Reaper problem and the Catalyst's problem and leave it ambiguous enough so that we can make threads like this.

I really don't know what Bioware is going to do in the future. I have almost zero interest in prequels or speculating on the current endings. I want more stories in the Mass Effect universe in a post Reaper world, and I don't want it to be based on any of the endings in their current form.

[Heeden]

Volc19 wrote...

Honestly, Synthesis is a sort of Utopia. Not a very good sort, but a Utopia nonetheless.

All problems have been alieviated, all conflict has ended, all knowledge has been gathered, all differences have been assimilated away, and the end of evolution is brought on the Galaxy. There isn't anything left to gain, you are taken from the side of the mountain and placed at the top.

Synthesis is static. All problems have been instantly solved, and there is nothing left to gain, nothing to overcome and achieve. "All advancement due to overcoming limitations. Cant carry load, invent wheel. Can't catch food, invent spear. Limitations." Without those limitations, culture stagnates, as stated by the good doctor.

I agree (kind of). I wouldn't say all knowledge is instantly gathered as the Reaperised civilisations only had 50,000 years to develop, so whilst we may gain a broader range of knowledge it will not necessarily run deeper - especially when you consider the Mass Relay system was used to hold back our development.

Also uplift does not necessarily cause stagnation - every space-faring civilisation has been uplifted by the Catalyst providing them with a mass relay but we are still a dynamic and varied group. Nor will Synthesis remove all differences - Krogan remain Krogan, Turians remain Turians. The capabilites granted by Synthesis do not change who someone is, but they may very well increase our understanding of each other. There may be a gradual coming together - a sort of memetic social evolution - but this is expected whenever populations come together with or without Synthesis.

I think Synthesis has a very good chance of creating a utopia - especially in my galaxy which I have paragonned the living **** out of. The generally good communal vibe we have going on, coupled with the inevitable tech-explosion we'll gain from the Reapers and other technological life-forms, means we can pretty much fast-track our way to lives of indolent leisure.

That could be great - the galaxy is a massive and wonderful place and (to use a gaming analogy) we will be making a transition from competetive-survival-PvP to sandbox builder-game; from Arma2's DayZ mod to Minecraft in other words.

I worry that could lead to stagnation (especially consdiering Mordin's quote above) but I get the feeling people who complain about societies stagnating have never had to live through wars, famine and plagues. My own country could be considered fairly stagnant compared to how it was in the mediaeval periods but I have no desire to go back and live in that time period (and I'm fairly certain a person from back then would view my life as utopic).

Any way I chose Destroy with a view to building our way towards Synthesis the slow way, I doubt we'll be able to replicate the green-beam effect but I think we need to work towards it rather than have it handed to us on a plate.

[Vilegrim]

Not. It can't be, it has people in it. It could be post scarcity however.

[Mazebook]

Sonashi wrote...

May I add my 2 cents?

Yes, I agree that Synthesis doesn't mean utopia. Yes, the Reapers are now our friends and we gained a big knowledge from them, yes there is no more conflict between org. vs synth. But...BUT.... normal conflicts are still possible.  Nowhere in the endings was said there will be an eternal peace. Even the Catalyst didn't say that.

In synthesis all species gained very big power (better health etc.). That means future wars if there will be one will be more violent, agressive and probably there will be more casualties as well.  *points at Wreav and Yaghs*




@Ieldra2
You said that only organics were changed in Synthesis, well look at Edi's left arm. Does it look like skin? Yes it does.

About the Golden Age.

In every ending it will be achieved but in a different way. Soner or later but it will finally happen. So you can't blame synthesis for that.

And the last thing I want talk about. Many people here wonder what would , for example Javik, say to Shepard about choosing Synthesis. Well nothing is my answer. It's time to stop that nonsense. No one know what the Crucible is suppose to do. In the final mission all they know is that Shepard somehow activated the Crucible and some energy was released. What color of this energy doesn't matter to them. Shepard wouldn't be accused after that.

Thanks, I hope you can read it with no problem

Edit: I like make typos 

I totally agree...good reply.

[Sonashi]

dreman9999 wrote...

Sonashi wrote...

@Xellith

I know that. I've seen all of the endings. EDI hasn't grown skin in a cutscenes - yes. But in that specific scene she has. And it may be a light reflecting but BioWare did it on purpose. So it has to mean something.

I'd rather have that skin reflecting than green, freaky eyes and all that stuff

That's sun light relection I hope you know.

Yes I know, don't worry. Maybe I just used the wrong word. I realize that EDI's arm is one piece of metal but after synthesis that reflection make it looks like skin. And that is beautiful imo. I'd like to see that in EC's cutscenes rather than green eyes and that freaky lines.  That would be better for synthesis - IMO

Edit: I'm talking about synthetics of course. Maybe someone can propose better way to show organics change than that green thing.

Modifié par Sonashi, 27 juillet 2012 - 04:11 .

[zambot]

If you believe that an enlightened civilization will abandon violence, and along with it end universal problems such as scarcity of resources, control over the environment, disease, and greed, and that this will lead to an ever lasting utopia; then yes, synthesis will bring an ever-lasting utopia.

If you are like me, and do not believe that these things are achievable, then no it will not last.

Of course since synthesis itself is space magic, maybe there is enough magic to make the utopia last.

[Ieldra]

Sonashi wrote...
Edit: I'm talking about synthetics of course. Maybe someone can propose better way to show organics change than that green thing.

Hmm...the subtle glowing eye effect of the Normandy scene is rather more likeable. I see that as closer to the reality and the green eyes in the slides as an artistic representation of mostly invisible changes. The same for the circuit patterns, because real circuits would be too small to see any structures. But I guess they had to make the slides more different or people would have complained that the endings all look the same.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 27 juillet 2012 - 09:20 .

[Applepie_Svk]

For Utopia via Synthesis you need to eliminate funamental difference in beliefs of each species - brainwashing FTW...

[RadicalDisconnect]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

For Utopia via Synthesis you need to eliminate funamental difference in beliefs of each species - brainwashing FTW...

I truly appreciate your need to treat speculation as fact. Oh, and ignoring everything people has posted. Please try viewing things from multiple angles and keep your speculation as speculation, not fact. It saves you from sounding like a bleating lamb.

Modifié par RadicalDisconnect, 27 juillet 2012 - 09:30 .

[Applepie_Svk]

RadicalDisconnect wrote...


I truly appreciate your need to treat speculation as fact. Oh, and ignoring everything people has posted.

That´s what synthesis doing ...despite with EC we have recieved some kind of explanation - if we could called it that way... we have seen that Space Magic invaded everyone´s body thru some kind of implants or nano technology as with synthetics being part of organic

Speculation is thinking that with synthesis now will Krogans and Salarians love each other or the all surviving Batarians will love others despite before the Reaper arrival they were like North Korea filled with haters, and cherry on cake was Quarians and Geths, despite that you manage broke peace it doesn´t mean that they will love each other instantly - it´s way for nature motion and not for change of winds via space magic.

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 27 juillet 2012 - 09:32 .

[RadicalDisconnect]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...


I truly appreciate your need to treat speculation as fact. Oh, and ignoring everything people has posted.

That´s what synthesis doing ...despite with EC we have recieved some kind of explanation - if we could called it that way... we have seen that Space Magic invaded everyone´s body thru some kind of implants or nano technology as with synthetics being part of organic

Speculation is thinking that with synthesis now will Krogans and Salarians love each other or the all surviving Batarians will love others despite before the Reaper arrival they were like North Korea filled with haters, and cherry on cake was Quarians and Geths, despite that you manage broke peace it doesn´t mean that they will love each other instantly - pressented change of winds via space magic.

I love your cherry-picking. Krogans and Salarians don't fight each other if Wrex is in charge, regardless of endings. If Wreav is in charge, he'll attempt war in destroy. In control and synthesis, you can speculate that Shreapers or synthesis reapers threaten to crush Wreav if he tried an uprising. Brainwashing isn't the only speculation, and treating it as more valid than anything else is ignorant. So yeah, it would be nice if you don't resort to cherry-picking and double standards. Unless you are that infatuated with IT. Then there's no point in arguing. Just don't push your interpretation as fact.

Modifié par RadicalDisconnect, 27 juillet 2012 - 09:38 .

[Krunjar]

Synthesis is not auto-utopia it merely gets rid of the possible extinction scenario. However the new technology inherent in the ending may create a more utopian society by relieving or removing the need to fight over resources. However that is up to the player to imagine wether that happens or not.

[Carlthestrange]

I imagine that given everyone would retain their individuality (I assume) life would change very little. Conflict, hatred, desire for war.

Not much would change. Just green eyes all around.

[WhiteKnyght]

Oransel wrote...

Synthesis is impossible from the Mass Effect lore perspective - so it does not matter what it will lead or not lead to. Should have never been introduced in the first place as it is insult to the intelligence.

If you are transhuman activist, well, I hope you do understand what a true Singularity means (as we are in ME forums, look at the Project Overlord. That is the closest you get to "synthesis")

Impossible? Yeah, right. People in Mass Effect's universe can go to a doctor or scientists and have their genes modified in any number of ways. Have synthetics implanted. And even have their memories stored in electronic devices(greyboxes)

That's using modern tech. Reaper tech can do a LOT more. Just look at the husks and other mutated half-synthetic drones.

Synthesis is just gene modding on a large and very thorough scale using Reaper tech. Deal with it.

[Ranger Jack Walker]

Synthesis is not utopia. Nor is is brainwashing eveyone into coexisting peacefully. Choose Synthesis with Wreav in charge of the Krogans. He will still be building an army. Obviously no brainwashing since he wouldn't do that otherwise.

[LinksOcarina]

Historically its impossible, because a utopian society is unobtainable.

The outlook is sunny in Synthesis, but wars, infighting, emotions like greed, jealousy, and so forth will still happen. Of course they will never be fully at peace, Synthesis just caused the evolution of all of the races, it doesn't mean they will stop fighting.

That said, I do believe the melding of synthetic and organic life will create a change to the human condition. Transhumanism comes into play in this regard, but it is not an exact science either, if a science at all. What change does occur however is up in the air really, but who knows in the end.

[Carlthestrange]

Ranger Jack Walker wrote...

Synthesis is not utopia. Nor is is brainwashing eveyone into coexisting peacefully. Choose Synthesis with Wreav in charge of the Krogans. He will still be building an army. Obviously no brainwashing since he wouldn't do that otherwise.

Makes me feel that Synthesis won't solve a damn thing.