173 réponses à ce sujet

[De1ta G]

AlanC9 wrote...

De1ta G wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

Am I alone in thinking the Crucible was going to be pretty much the destroy ending minus killing the Geth and EDI?

**crickets**

Actually, I would think that would be the majority thought on the Crucible. I thought it would either take down the reapers shields or flat out destroy them. Preferred the reaper's shields idea better.

Taking down Reaper shields wouldn't work unless you could immediately blow them up with conventional weapons. They're much faster than Citadel ships, and if their shields fail they've got no reason to stick around in the battle.

Anyway, when people spend a lot of time talking about how they don't really know what some gadget is going to do, you can usually bet that it's going to do something that isn't what you expect and probably isn't exactly what  you want.

I was thinking more of what happen to Sovereign when its shields went down. It just kind of fell over and was vulnerable. 

[Wayning_Star]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

darthoptimus003 wrote...

the prothean ai said that the vass magoriy of the reaper fleet was at earth protecting the ciadel
the crucible should have been a weapon to take down the sheid but instead we got bs spacemagic starbrat bs
and convientianl victory is poosible look at the codex sometime and see how the galaxy is really doing

AI's have a very limited perspective, governed only by organic programmers bias, based on their 'knowlege' of input, there is no way to know what is what in the MEU, as there are forces at work beyond or intellect/knowlege base. Besides everyone forgets there are millions/billions of reapers out messing around in the MEU, if the crucible is made known, they would undoubtedly  be alerted and make their way to earth to, well.... insurmountable odds, the reapers rely on brute force. It works for them..for, oh about a billion+ years.. not good odds for direct control.

Lol millions of Reapers? No, the universe isn't old enough for that to be possible.

but it's full enough of organics to require at least that many, if not more to encompass the amount of fire power needed to over come 'all' the charted planets within the MEU, the fact of the matter is there is NO official count, so no one knows how many exactly exist, or even the number of them attacking the 'entire' galaxy or hidden in dark space, their hold out.  If they've been around harvesting for billions of years, then how come there's not of time. How old is the universe again? How long have the reapers been up to no good? How many did the original creators end up being turned into? That race spanned the galaxy and others as well, who knows how far that society stretched?

[Jawsomebob]

shannonrw wrote...

 I'm getting really irritated at seeing
everyone complaining that we couldn't win by conventional methods, and
that we should've been able to win that way, etc.

Okay...listen.
The reapers have been doing this for millions of years with hundreds or
thousands of civilizations. If no other civilization has been able to do
it that way, well why the hell would we be able to? What makes US so
special?

LieutenantSarcasm wrote...

Simple, and it was made abundantly clear in ME1. The Reaper's invasion plan hinged on sucker punching everyone at the citadel, and we are the first cycle in history to break that.

this. And the fact that we have Shepard.

[o Ventus]

Show, don't tell.

And from what we've been shown, it's that a conventional victory COULD HAVE MAYBE/POSSIBLY been feasible. As it turns out, it doesn't take entire fleets to kill Reapers. Hell, Shepard does it fairly often.

[DirtyPhoenix]

Don't know about others, but I never expected or wanted a conventional victory. Not in ME1, not in ME2 and certainly not in ME3. By conventional I mean non-crucible. Defeating hordes of space-monsters with galactic unity and love would have been cheap, certainly not a fitting end to the kind of horror and disparity they've been building since ME1. Agreed that the crucible idea was introduced badly in ME3 and the finala turned out to be well.. crap, but going into the final battle, I expected something "drastic" to happen. Conventional victory, I guess, had the council races immediately listened to Shepard right after his/her Eden Prime and mass-produced Dreadnoughts, would have been possible. But as they continued to ignore her through ME1 and ME2, I'm afraid I don't see how we are going to win conventionally, not after taking such heavy casualty at the beginning. Even by generous estimations there are thousands of capital reaper ships and merely hundreds of our dreadnoughts. It takes four of us to take down one of them, but one to them can one-shot pretty much everything in its sight. We see many allied dreadnoughts going dow. How many reaper capital ships we see going down? One. Back in ME1, and that was when an entire fleet was firing on it while it was puppettering its toy. In the final battle we one's tentacles blown off blown off after repeated hits before it one-shots the offending ship into the next system. Sorry I can't see it.

Modifié par pirate1802, 27 juillet 2012 - 04:56 .

[spectra 87]

De1ta G wrote...
Dude, you can't convince us because it isn't possible. You can't beat a threat like the reapers conventionally.

Ok here's a real ife example- in december 1941 The imperial japanese navy attacked the american outpost of wake island. with nothing more than three Fighter planes and costal artillery the US forces held out for two weeks before running out of fuel and ammunition, then they were forced to surrender. they were vastly outnumbered and still fought and beat the odds. Waves of aircraft, superior numbers, beaten back by little more tan the ilsands skeleton crews.  they put the IJN to shame. Odds can always be beaten nomatter how stacked they are, just like machines can be broken....

[Wayning_Star]

o Ventus wrote...

Show, don't tell.

And from what we've been shown, it's that a conventional victory COULD HAVE MAYBE/POSSIBLY been feasible. As it turns out, it doesn't take entire fleets to kill Reapers. Hell, Shepard does it fairly often.

actually, I think that shep could only disable one, even the deralict ship they boarded was still 'kind of' active after getting about torn in half. They have to be totally decimated to actualy 'get rid' of their threat. Being is how they've been described as designed, it would seem they're not really alive anyway, they're just mechanical 'vessals' for something else. I think they can actually self repair too. Hard nuts to crack those reapers.. The catalyst/and his builders must of been one totally paranoid race..fur sure.

[o Ventus]

Wayning_Star wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Show, don't tell.

And from what we've been shown, it's that a conventional victory COULD HAVE MAYBE/POSSIBLY been feasible. As it turns out, it doesn't take entire fleets to kill Reapers. Hell, Shepard does it fairly often.

actually, I think that shep could only disable one, even the deralict ship they boarded was still 'kind of' active after getting about torn in half. They have to be totally decimated to actualy 'get rid' of their threat. Being is how they've been described as designed, it would seem they're not really alive anyway, they're just mechanical 'vessals' for something else. I think they can actually self repair too. Hard nuts to crack those reapers.. The catalyst/and his builders must of been one totally paranoid race..fur sure.

The derelict Reaper was not "torn in half". A hole was punched through it, that's all. It's power core was still active, that's why it had kinetic barriers and could indoctrinate people.

Destroy the core and the Reaper is dead.

[DirtyPhoenix]

Or maybe they should have made the final battle consist of Shepard riding on the nose of Normandy and taking out Harbinger with his Omni-blade. That would have been conventional enough. xD

[DirtyPhoenix]

o Ventus wrote...

Destroy the core and the Reaper is dead.

*In Jack's voice* Sounds great in theory...

Before that you have to break through its kinetic barrier, which needs four dreadnoughts, and thats assuming the reaper just stands there and lets them drain its shields, while other reapers watch the fun.

Modifié par pirate1802, 27 juillet 2012 - 05:03 .

[Wayning_Star]

spectra 87 wrote...

De1ta G wrote...
Dude, you can't convince us because it isn't possible. You can't beat a threat like the reapers conventionally.

Ok here's a real ife example- in december 1941 The imperial japanese navy attacked the american outpost of wake island. with nothing more than three Fighter planes and costal artillery the US forces held out for two weeks before running out of fuel and ammunition, then they were forced to surrender. they were vastly outnumbered and still fought and beat the odds. Waves of aircraft, superior numbers, beaten back by little more tan the ilsands skeleton crews.  they put the IJN to shame. Odds can always be beaten nomatter how stacked they are, just like machines can be broken....

one battle on old earth cannot be compared to the battles in a universe filled with mass altering creatures of unknown complexity and basically too many years jump on the competition. Espcially considering that they overcame their builders to come into being as a dominant power in an 'entire' universe, controlling societies that could thump flegling races. Everyone in the MEU that needed to know, knew that the only hope to defeat reapers, or a minimum, hold them back, was their own creators, whom they defeated. Kind of a mind bender..but there it is.

[DirtyPhoenix]

spectra 87 wrote...

De1ta G wrote...
Dude, you can't convince us because it isn't possible. You can't beat a threat like the reapers conventionally.

Ok here's a real ife example- in december 1941 The imperial japanese navy attacked the american outpost of wake island. with nothing more than three Fighter planes and costal artillery the US forces held out for two weeks before running out of fuel and ammunition, then they were forced to surrender. they were vastly outnumbered and still fought and beat the odds. Waves of aircraft, superior numbers, beaten back by little more tan the ilsands skeleton crews.  they put the IJN to shame. Odds can always be beaten nomatter how stacked they are, just like machines can be broken....

That is a single battle. I'm sure there are similar tales of valor in ME3 too. A more apt example would have been if half the US would have been occupied by IJN and the said skeleton crew was going in to liberate them.

Modifié par pirate1802, 27 juillet 2012 - 05:11 .

[Wayning_Star]

pirate1802 wrote...

Or maybe they should have made the final battle consist of Shepard riding on the nose of Normandy and taking out Harbinger with his Omni-blade. That would have been conventional enough. xD

or have'em ride the crucible on the way out, waving his cow boy hat in defiance..screaming Yah Hoo, buck'n bronco'tech!!

[palician]

De1ta G wrote...

How many thanix cannons did you see blowing up reapers? I don't remember seeing one. It took an orbital strike from the quarian fleet to destroy one destroy reaper. It took an entire fleet of alliance ships to destroy Sovereign. The Sovereign class reaper ships outnumber the organic's ships alone. I highly doubt a conventional victory is possible even if the entire galaxy was fully prepared. The reapers are just too powerful.

And yet harry potter turns up with his magic wand & saves the day.

[o Ventus]

pirate1802 wrote...

spectra 87 wrote...

De1ta G wrote...
Dude, you can't convince us because it isn't possible. You can't beat a threat like the reapers conventionally.

Ok here's a real ife example- in december 1941 The imperial japanese navy attacked the american outpost of wake island. with nothing more than three Fighter planes and costal artillery the US forces held out for two weeks before running out of fuel and ammunition, then they were forced to surrender. they were vastly outnumbered and still fought and beat the odds. Waves of aircraft, superior numbers, beaten back by little more tan the ilsands skeleton crews.  they put the IJN to shame. Odds can always be beaten nomatter how stacked they are, just like machines can be broken....

That is a single battle. I'm sure there are similar tales of valor in ME3 too. A more apt example would have been if half the US would have been occupied by IGN and the said skeleton crew was going in to liberate them.

IGN isn't a military or paramilitary organization....

[DirtyPhoenix]

o Ventus wrote...

IGN isn't a military or paramilitary organization....

LOL!!! The error is highly regretted!

[DirtyPhoenix]

SwobyJ wrote...

In the strict sense, NO, organics can't win conventionally. They need an 'out'. The Catalyst and Crucible, in a literal interpretation of the ending, is a BAD 'out'. The Conduit (ME1) and Reaper IFF (ME2) were good ones.

*In Anderson's voice* Agreed. 100%

[Wayning_Star]

o Ventus wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Show, don't tell.

And from what we've been shown, it's that a conventional victory COULD HAVE MAYBE/POSSIBLY been feasible. As it turns out, it doesn't take entire fleets to kill Reapers. Hell, Shepard does it fairly often.

actually, I think that shep could only disable one, even the deralict ship they boarded was still 'kind of' active after getting about torn in half. They have to be totally decimated to actualy 'get rid' of their threat. Being is how they've been described as designed, it would seem they're not really alive anyway, they're just mechanical 'vessals' for something else. I think they can actually self repair too. Hard nuts to crack those reapers.. The catalyst/and his builders must of been one totally paranoid race..fur sure.

The derelict Reaper was not "torn in half". A hole was punched through it, that's all. It's power core was still active, that's why it had kinetic barriers and could indoctrinate people.

Destroy the core and the Reaper is dead.

well, I guess you're kind of correct, the hole was almost through it's thorax.. even so, it was still kicking enough to indoctrinate, that takes ineteligence to barter thought processes. So it was merely emobilized,inactive to a certain point, couldn't self repair, but was working on indoctrinating a repair crew till Shep sent it into the old star. Had it made enough husks to repair its self, it would of came back as it's 'brain' of sorts was still there. Just didn't have enough time and resources to pull it off...


http://masseffect.wi...Derelict_Reaper

[Wayning_Star]

pirate1802 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

IGN isn't a military or paramilitary organization....

LOL!!! The error is highly regretted!

I dunno, everyone is a civilian till they goto war..even a pretend one..where the battle pieces won't even fit on the friggen map, as its too big to even find a table to put it one...much less push cute little tanks around for effect..lol

[o Ventus]

Wayning_Star wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Show, don't tell.

And from what we've been shown, it's that a conventional victory COULD HAVE MAYBE/POSSIBLY been feasible. As it turns out, it doesn't take entire fleets to kill Reapers. Hell, Shepard does it fairly often.

actually, I think that shep could only disable one, even the deralict ship they boarded was still 'kind of' active after getting about torn in half. They have to be totally decimated to actualy 'get rid' of their threat. Being is how they've been described as designed, it would seem they're not really alive anyway, they're just mechanical 'vessals' for something else. I think they can actually self repair too. Hard nuts to crack those reapers.. The catalyst/and his builders must of been one totally paranoid race..fur sure.

The derelict Reaper was not "torn in half". A hole was punched through it, that's all. It's power core was still active, that's why it had kinetic barriers and could indoctrinate people.

Destroy the core and the Reaper is dead.

well, I guess you're kind of correct, the hole was almost through it's thorax.. even so, it was still kicking enough to indoctrinate, that takes ineteligence to barter thought processes. So it was merely emobilized,inactive to a certain point, couldn't self repair, but was working on indoctrinating a repair crew till Shep sent it into the old star. Had it made enough husks to repair its self, it would of came back as it's 'brain' of sorts was still there. Just didn't have enough time and resources to pull it off...


http://masseffect.wi...Derelict_Reaper

Indoctrination comes to be via emission of various subliminal infra- and ultrasound waves (Go read the codex). The Klendagon weapon "killed" it, but it didn't disable the power core or the indoctrination emitter. Simplest way to look at it.

Modifié par o Ventus, 27 juillet 2012 - 05:29 .

[Wayning_Star]

palician wrote...

De1ta G wrote...

How many thanix cannons did you see blowing up reapers? I don't remember seeing one. It took an orbital strike from the quarian fleet to destroy one destroy reaper. It took an entire fleet of alliance ships to destroy Sovereign. The Sovereign class reaper ships outnumber the organic's ships alone. I highly doubt a conventional victory is possible even if the entire galaxy was fully prepared. The reapers are just too powerful.

And yet harry potter turns up with his magic wand & saves the day.

harry had a crucible it's fleet was bright and advanced, and where ever harry went, those reapers would surely go..lol

[Wayning_Star]

o Ventus wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Show, don't tell.

And from what we've been shown, it's that a conventional victory COULD HAVE MAYBE/POSSIBLY been feasible. As it turns out, it doesn't take entire fleets to kill Reapers. Hell, Shepard does it fairly often.

actually, I think that shep could only disable one, even the deralict ship they boarded was still 'kind of' active after getting about torn in half. They have to be totally decimated to actualy 'get rid' of their threat. Being is how they've been described as designed, it would seem they're not really alive anyway, they're just mechanical 'vessals' for something else. I think they can actually self repair too. Hard nuts to crack those reapers.. The catalyst/and his builders must of been one totally paranoid race..fur sure.

The derelict Reaper was not "torn in half". A hole was punched through it, that's all. It's power core was still active, that's why it had kinetic barriers and could indoctrinate people.

Destroy the core and the Reaper is dead.

well, I guess you're kind of correct, the hole was almost through it's thorax.. even so, it was still kicking enough to indoctrinate, that takes ineteligence to barter thought processes. So it was merely emobilized,inactive to a certain point, couldn't self repair, but was working on indoctrinating a repair crew till Shep sent it into the old star. Had it made enough husks to repair its self, it would of came back as it's 'brain' of sorts was still there. Just didn't have enough time and resources to pull it off...


http://masseffect.wi...Derelict_Reaper

Indoctrination comes to be via emission of various subliminal infra- and ultrasound waves (Go read the codex). The Klendagon weapon "killed" it, but it didn't disable the power core or the indoctrination emitter. Simplest way to look at it.

eeeeeeek no point..lol  The point actually being that you are correct in the fact that the power core destruction will 'stop' a reaper, the thing you miss is that it's still dangerous, it can still function on a base level, unless utterly demolished. Even without the core, it will have backups to protect core logic. Just like your computer if you install a battery back up, if the lights goes out, your computer can still function long enough for you to turn it off/or enter hibernation mode. I wouldn't doubt the reapers have that option. The indoctrination is 'automatic' as it would need hands and some semblence of brains to help with repair efforts, they are totally dependent on lesser forms for survival, if damaged. That's why they use indoctrination. They're kind of parasidic in that regard, and really hard to kill,er destroy completely.

[shannonrw]

o Ventus wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

spectra 87 wrote...

De1ta G wrote...
Dude, you can't convince us because it isn't possible. You can't beat a threat like the reapers conventionally.

Ok here's a real ife example- in december 1941 The imperial japanese navy attacked the american outpost of wake island. with nothing more than three Fighter planes and costal artillery the US forces held out for two weeks before running out of fuel and ammunition, then they were forced to surrender. they were vastly outnumbered and still fought and beat the odds. Waves of aircraft, superior numbers, beaten back by little more tan the ilsands skeleton crews.  they put the IJN to shame. Odds can always be beaten nomatter how stacked they are, just like machines can be broken....

That is a single battle. I'm sure there are similar tales of valor in ME3 too. A more apt example would have been if half the US would have been occupied by IGN and the said skeleton crew was going in to liberate them.

IGN isn't a military or paramilitary organization....

lol uh IGN?