75 réponses à ce sujet

[rockthatwood]

xSNPx ZoDiaC wrote...

Adding Protheans does not have to break lore.

Exactly. What about cloning?

[Shad Croly]

Get a bunch of Asari dancers to get it on with Javik. It's not perfect, but at least we've got some people with Prothean in them.

[Krozuhsky]

rockthatwood wrote...

xSNPx ZoDiaC wrote...

Adding Protheans does not have to break lore.

Exactly. What about cloning?

Because Javik would TOTALLY let people cloan him. Because the Salarians would totally invest time and money into cloning Protheans.

[Sdrol117]

Astartes Marine wrote...

xSNPx ZoDiaC wrote...
Adding Protheans does not have to break lore.

It would still be pointless and irrelevant.

We have their unique power, we have their unique weapon, they themselves are now redundant.

Yes, because protheans only had one gun and one power in their entire civilation. People are so narrow minded it's embarassing. 

[Krozuhsky]

Shad Croly wrote...

Get a bunch of Asari dancers to get it on with Javik. It's not perfect, but at least we've got some people with Prothean in them.

Asari+Human=Asari.
Asari+Salarian=Asari
Asari+Turian=Asari
Guess what Asari+Prothean equals.

[Astartes Marine]

Sdrol117 wrote...

Asebstos wrote...

quack123 wrote...

Lukeman1884 wrote...
Here's some food for though. If Thermal Clips are supposed to be compatible with all weapons, why can't I use the thermal clips for my SMG on my Harrier when I run out?

Clips are preloaded into the weapons.

In that case, what's up with the Shurkien holding like 20 spare clips while the Harrier only has 4?

What he said doesn't even begin to make sense, considering we pick up clips all over the place off the ground or in ammo boxes.

It does make some sense, but it's hard to explain in full clarity without drawing a schematic of the weapons.

The weapons have a number of thermal heatsinks (clips that are like a gun magazine but instead of bullets it has the sinks) preloaded and we can fire a certain number of shots before having to eject a clip to continue firing again.  Clips are universal but each weapon has it's own clip inserted so but any clip can go into any weapon.  Trying to fire a weapon that's run out is prevented not because of a shortage of ammunition (ammo since it's miniscule shavings off of a material block is practically infinite) but because all available heatsinks have been expended.

Weapons put out different levels of heat per shot and different weapons have different cooling systems. 
A Revenant has moderate damage per shot and moderate heat output but allows 60 shots to be fired before the burned out heatsink needs to be ejected for the next to take it's place.
On the flip side a Carnifex can only fire 6 shots before ejecting a heatsink because it puts out a higher amount of heat and burns the clips out faster than the Rev.
Likewise the Saber can only fire a few shots itself since it puts alot of internal heat out and burns heatsinks out fast.

Some weapons like sniper rifles can be modded for larger clip capacities (more reloads) and some weapons can be modded to have more efficient individual heatsinks (more shots before reload).




It might be wrong but this is how I've always seen the system.

Sdrol117 wrote...
Yes, because protheans only had one gun and
one power in their entire civilation. People are so narrow minded it's
embarassing.

A narrow view sees clearer and is more focused.

Protheans are not needed. 

Modifié par Astartes Marine, 27 juillet 2012 - 05:59 .

[Sdrol117]

Astartes Marine wrote...

Sdrol117 wrote...

Asebstos wrote...

quack123 wrote...

Lukeman1884 wrote...
Here's some food for though. If Thermal Clips are supposed to be compatible with all weapons, why can't I use the thermal clips for my SMG on my Harrier when I run out?

Clips are preloaded into the weapons.

In that case, what's up with the Shurkien holding like 20 spare clips while the Harrier only has 4?

What he said doesn't even begin to make sense, considering we pick up clips all over the place off the ground or in ammo boxes.

It does make some sense, but it's hard to explain in full clarity without drawing a schematic of the weapons.

The weapons have a number of thermal heatsinks (clips that are like a gun magazine but instead of bullets it has the sinks) preloaded and we can fire a certain number of shots before having to eject a clip to continue firing again.  Clips are universal but each weapon has it's own clip inserted so but any clip can go into any weapon.  Trying to fire a weapon that's run out is prevented not because of a shortage of ammunition (ammo since it's miniscule shavings off of a material block is practically infinite) but because all available heatsinks have been expended.

Weapons put out different levels of heat per shot and different weapons have different cooling systems. 
A Revenant has moderate damage per shot and moderate heat output but allows 60 shots to be fired before the burned out heatsink needs to be ejected for the next to take it's place.
On the flip side a Carnifex can only fire 6 shots before ejecting a heatsink because it puts out a higher amount of heat and burns the clips out faster than the Rev.
Likewise the Saber can only fire a few shots itself since it puts alot of internal heat out and burns heatsinks out fast.

Some weapons like sniper rifles can be modded for larger clip capacities (more reloads) and some weapons can be modded to have more efficient individual heatsinks (more shots before reload).




It might be wrong but this is how I've always seen the system.

Sdrol117 wrote...
Yes, because protheans only had one gun and
one power in their entire civilation. People are so narrow minded it's
embarassing.

A narrow view sees clearer and is more focused.

Protheans are not needed. 

Nothing you said negated the fact that the thermal clips techincally are universal, and for example, should be able to be popped out of the gun and thrown into your other gun. While I understand the gameplay standpoint, this is what lore has taught us. And your bottom quote was just ludicrous, not having an open mind or the ability to look at things through more than a microscope just makes you an idiot. 

Modifié par Sdrol117, 27 juillet 2012 - 06:10 .

[rockthatwood]

Krozuhsky wrote...

rockthatwood wrote...

xSNPx ZoDiaC wrote...

Adding Protheans does not have to break lore.

Exactly. What about cloning?

Because Javik would TOTALLY let people cloan him. Because the Salarians would totally invest time and money into cloning Protheans.

Assuming Salarians are the only race with technology to clone? And it would be a smart idea to clone a Prothean. As for Javik letting them, who cares?

[Astartes Marine]

Sdrol117 wrote...
Nothing you said negated the fact that the thermal clips techincally are universal, and for example, should be able to be popped out of the gun and thrown into your other gun. While I understand the gameplay standpoint, this is what lore has taught us.

I was just trying to explain how I imagined the system worked for those who didn't know.  Lord knows it's been nebulous and poorly explained since Shepard miraculously knew about them in the very beginning of ME2 after he woke up in the lab.

I always just assumed that the gun locked when a clip was inserted or was integrated in such a way that removal was not so easy.  A shrug of the shoulders kind of thing.

Sdrol117 wrote...
 And your bottom quote was just ludicrous, not having an open mind or the
ability to look at things through more than a microscope just makes you
an idiot.

I do not need to have an open mind about a practically extinct race (should just be completely extinct, Javik is useless) in a video game. 

[Sdrol117]

Astartes Marine wrote...

Sdrol117 wrote...
Nothing you said negated the fact that the thermal clips techincally are universal, and for example, should be able to be popped out of the gun and thrown into your other gun. While I understand the gameplay standpoint, this is what lore has taught us.

I was just trying to explain how I imagined the system worked for those who didn't know.  Lord knows it's been nebulous and poorly explained since Shepard miraculously knew about them in the very beginning of ME2 after he woke up in the lab.

I always just assumed that the gun locked when a clip was inserted or was integrated in such a way that removal was not so easy.  A shrug of the shoulders kind of thing.

Sdrol117 wrote...
 And your bottom quote was just ludicrous, not having an open mind or the
ability to look at things through more than a microscope just makes you
an idiot.

I do not need to have an open mind about a practically extinct race (should just be completely extinct, Javik is useless) in a video game. 

1. Possibly. But I'll just accept the fact that Bioware decided to use ammo in their game, and their BS lore behind it failed really hard.

2. rofl. Thanks for proving my point. 

[born2beagator]

We can't. it would hurt the lore crazy people's feelings. No matter that it would add fun to the MP. It messes with the lore of a fictional game!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But seriously. Screw lore. Its not singleplayer. Give me protheans.

[Astartes Marine]

born2beagator wrote...
No matter that it would add fun to the MP.
But seriously. Screw lore. Its not singleplayer. Give me protheans.

Having new enemies to fight I would think would add a hell of a lot more fun than yet another character.  There's only so many times you can stand to fight the same 3 groups before your brain starts to leak out of your ears.

Sdrol117 wrote...
2. rofl. Thanks for proving my point.

Oh noez, not seeing the appeal of a failed species and wanting to see something actually worthwhile added instead makes me an idiot in the eyes of some random person on the internet.
**** off. 

Modifié par Astartes Marine, 27 juillet 2012 - 06:28 .

[KillerSnake616]

Krozuhsky wrote...

Shad Croly wrote...

Get a bunch of Asari dancers to get it on with Javik. It's not perfect, but at least we've got some people with Prothean in them.

Asari+Human=Asari.
Asari+Salarian=Asari
Asari+Turian=Asari
Guess what Asari+Prothean equals.

where does it say an Asari and a Prothean would give you another Prothean??

[Sdrol117]

KillerSnake616 wrote...

Krozuhsky wrote...

Shad Croly wrote...

Get a bunch of Asari dancers to get it on with Javik. It's not perfect, but at least we've got some people with Prothean in them.

Asari+Human=Asari.
Asari+Salarian=Asari
Asari+Turian=Asari
Guess what Asari+Prothean equals.

where does it say an Asari and a Prothean would give you another Prothean??

Wow. Just....wow. Your ability to comprehend words...is just...phenomenal. 

[Magicman10893]

KillerSnake616 wrote...

Krozuhsky wrote...

Shad Croly wrote...

Get a bunch of Asari dancers to get it on with Javik. It's not perfect, but at least we've got some people with Prothean in them.

Asari+Human=Asari.
Asari+Salarian=Asari
Asari+Turian=Asari
Guess what Asari+Prothean equals.

where does it say an Asari and a Prothean would give you another Prothean??

Shad Croly was saying that the Asari offspring would have Prothean DNA in them and therefore might have some genetic differences that could alter their personality or physical attributes (remember Matriarch Aethyta talk about how her hostile personality was brought on by having a Krogan father?).

[Muhkida]

Just let it go Magicman10893.

KillerSnake616 missed it by a mile...

[Stinja]

Sdrol117 wrote...

the fact that the thermal clips techincally are universal, and for example, should be able to be popped out of the gun and thrown into your other gun.

This.  
The game says all the way thru thermal clips are universal.

How it should work is everyone carries X number of clips in pool.  When the equipped gun runs out of thermal sinking, you reload from your pool of clips.  Swap guns and reload from the same pool.

You could then balance classes by adgusting pools, eg:  soldiers get 10 clips, adepts get 5.  
Then adjust/balance individual guns, so each clip is about the same usefulness in their class.

A downside is backup sidearms wouldnt have lots of ammo if your main gun runs out (just the clip inserted already), and if you added say +2 clips for taking two weapons, people might just use them for their primary guns.  But hey, it might also encourage people to use two guns for different ranges/purposes more.

[Magicman10893]

Muhkida wrote...

Just let it go Magicman10893.

KillerSnake616 missed it by a mile...

I was also clarifying it for Krozuhsky since he didn't seem to understand it either.

Modifié par Magicman10893, 27 juillet 2012 - 06:52 .

[Sdrol117]

Stinja wrote...

Sdrol117 wrote...

the fact that the thermal clips techincally are universal, and for example, should be able to be popped out of the gun and thrown into your other gun.

This.  
The game says all the way thru thermal clips are universal.

How it should work is everyone carries X number of clips in pool.  When the equipped gun runs out of thermal sinking, you reload from your pool of clips.  Swap guns and reload from the same pool.

You could then balance classes by adgusting pools, eg:  soldiers get 10 clips, adepts get 5.  
Then adjust/balance individual guns, so each clip is about the same usefulness in their class.

A downside is backup sidearms wouldnt have lots of ammo if your main gun runs out (just the clip inserted already), and if you added say +2 clips for taking two weapons, people might just use them for their primary guns.  But hey, it might also encourage people to use two guns for different ranges/purposes more.

It would be quite the interesting concept IMO. One of the main draws of ME1 was it wasnt like every other third person shooter. Then ME2 became like every other third person shooter. This would have been an interesting way to mix things up for mass effect. 

[greghorvath]

RamPuppy wrote...

so - you do know clips don't hold ammo right? they are heat sinks. Your gun uses mass effect fields to shave ammo off from an internal supply & manufacture mechanism.

Your typhoon gets five clips and burns through them cause it's making big heavy bullets and firing them fast and hard - your avenger is making little light bullets and firing them not as fast - therefore - avenger is more heat efficient than the typhoon.

Lore restored - whew! close one!

This would be a great comment if it made sense.

Heat efficiency has nothing to do with the fact that heat sinks are said to be universally compatible (which is probably the stupidest idea in the world of ME btw) and thus the fact that you cannot use the heat sink you have for one weapon for your other weapon simply makes no sense. This is a plothole introduced in ME2, noted by many ever since.

And furthermore, your reasoning stumbles on the fact that if the heat sinks are universal, the avenger is radically less heat efficient than the typhoon since the typhoon is capable of firing a considerably larger amount of projectiles than the avenger using the same thermal cooling capacity.

[Astartes Marine]

Stinja wrote...
How it should work is everyone carries X number of clips in pool.  When the equipped gun runs out of thermal sinking, you reload from your pool of clips.  Swap guns and reload from the same pool.

You could then balance classes by adgusting pools, eg:  soldiers get 10 clips, adepts get 5.  
Then adjust/balance individual guns, so each clip is about the same usefulness in their class.

A downside is backup sidearms wouldnt have lots of ammo if your main gun runs out (just the clip inserted already), and if you added say +2 clips for taking two weapons, people might just use them for their primary guns.  But hey, it might also encourage people to use two guns for different ranges/purposes more.

That kind of system of a universal ammo pool was tried by Deus Ex Invisible War.  Didn't turn out so well...

It's an interesting idea, but one that would require massive amounts of tweaking and perfecting.  A programmer's nightmare.

[xSNPx ZoDiaC]

Oh and before the extinct argument goes on its fallacious route...


Rachni say hi, lol we back nao k?


Cloning...


Rachni say hi again lol


Oh and Salarian willingness to clone?


Krogan uplifting & attempted uplifting of Yahg show the Salarians are VERY open-minded.



Adding Protheans does not destroy lore.

[ndw542]

Why is anyone even bothering to punch the strawman this guy put out there? Just repost the entirety of one of the 400 old pro/anti-Prothean threads and be done with it. The only thing better than the nerf/balance war was the two-month-long Prothean MP war. That never got old.

[ediskrad327]

KillerSnake616 wrote...

Krozuhsky wrote...

Shad Croly wrote...

Get a bunch of Asari dancers to get it on with Javik. It's not perfect, but at least we've got some people with Prothean in them.

Asari+Human=Asari.
Asari+Salarian=Asari
Asari+Turian=Asari
Guess what Asari+Prothean equals.

where does it say an Asari and a Prothean would give you another Prothean??

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg718/scaled.php?server=718&filename=facepalmwb.jpg&res=landing
as for the cloning issue, Javik is the only Prothean alive so cloning him would end up in a Genetic dead end. besides 4 Javiks running around would look....very stupid

[xSNPx ZoDiaC]

^ Oh hai, i'm a Rachni lol.


Also cloning does not necessarily make EXACT copies. Just "borrowing" DNA.