45 réponses à ce sujet

[Jawsomebob]

This is partically covered in http://social.biowar.../index/13302149
but my point is better and more specific.

Ashley Williams is a conservative and slightly racist in the first Mass effect.

Kadian is more liberal and more into other species existance.

From a moral standpoint Cerberus is also conservative, therefore Ashley Williams would fit right in. However the flipside (which bioware chose to do instead) is that a conservative like Ashley would also have high pride for the alliance.

To Williams Cerberus is a terrorist organization. However their worldviews fit in line with hers very well. The only thing that I think keeps Williams away from Cerberus is because they are simply not the alliance and she has a lot of loyalty. She has a lot of blind loyalist national pride and is proud to be alliance, but the raw truth is her ideals are basically the illusive mans ideals.

I think her charecter was spot on in remaining with the alliance in ME2 simply because of her conservative national pride, however her ideals themselves never were addressed in depth after ME1. The fact that had she wound up in Cerbrus in the first place, that she would of been the perfect operative is never brought up.

Kaidan however does not mesh with Cerbrus ideals. His ideals are more liberal. However I could see him leaving the alliance to work with Shepard if the need be, but not to join Cerbrus because of what they beleive in.

Kaidans reasons for not joining shepard are better than ashleys then because Kaidan doesnt join up in ME2 because he disagrees with the viewpoint of the group Shepard is working for. Ashley does agree with the viewpoint (perhaps not their methods) and simply does not like them because they are not the alliance.

Modifié par Jawsomebob, 27 juillet 2012 - 04:57 .

[De1ta G]

I can see how Ashley would fit in nicely with Cerberus, as long as she was kept in the dark about the experiments. I don't see how a conservative would be ok with turning people in to husks.

Modifié par De1ta G, 27 juillet 2012 - 04:39 .

[mupp3tz]

... except for the fact that she is absolutely against the methods Cerberus uses to achieve it's goals.

Your personal views could be heading in generally the same direction as an organization, but that doesn't mean you would be all gung-ho to support terrorism and forced experimentation within the organization. That's what sets the rational apart from the extremists.

[Jawsomebob]

De1ta G wrote...

I can see how Ashley would fit in nicely with Cerberus, as long as she was kept in the dark about the experiments. I don't see how a conservative would be ok with turning people in to husks.

Keeping her in the dark would be easy to do.

[Zaire Taylor]

But that would require Bioware making TWO characters, instead of just making Kaidan and Ashley the same character in ME2 and 3 like they already did.

[Jawsomebob]

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

... except for the fact that she is absolutely against the methods Cerberus uses to achieve it's goals.

Your personal views could be heading in generally the same direction as an organization, but that doesn't mean you would be all gung-ho to support terrorism and forced experimentation within the organization. That's what sets the rational apart from the extremists.

I agree. But that doesn't really flesh out until ME3. In ME1 she sound's just like the illusive man in ME2.
Bioware didn't even create the illusive man yet when they made ME1 and Cerburus was just a group you fought doing side missions.

ME1 ASH and ME2 TIM viewpoints are the same.

[MegaSovereign]

Cerberus is an idea, it cannot be easily destroyed.

Ashley Williams, however, got nuked.

[mupp3tz]

Ashley Williams is more like, "Sheppy, I don't like working with aliens. Let's just do our own thing and make decisions based on what's best for humanity and not any other species."

Cerberus is more like, "KILL IT WITH FIRE! .... and then take it apart so we can run some experiments and find a way to use it against them. Oh, and kill anyone that gets in the way while you're on it."

[Greed1914]

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

Ashley Williams is more like, "Sheppy, I don't like working with aliens. Let's just do our own thing and make decisions based on what's best for humanity and not any other species."

Cerberus is more like, "KILL IT WITH FIRE! .... and then take it apart so we can run some experiments and find a way to use it against them. Oh, and kill anyone that gets in the way while you're on it."

Pretty much.  The only way it would work is if she was like Kelly was at first.  Kelly was selected as yeoman by TIM precisely because she was ignorant of the real Cerberus.  That's why she believed that Cerberus was basically getting a bad rap.   Ashley saw first hand why they had such a reputation. 

[Wayning_Star]

she's totally alliance, if they don't shout the orders, shes not gonna act. One hint of cerberus, she'd go off on'em, cause thats her orders. She didn't even trust Shepard anymore cause he was just wearing a cerberus armor. Turned her off, even in ME3 she was distrustful of shep cause of it,eventhough Hacket wasn't..strange that?

[silentassassin264]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Cerberus is an idea, it cannot be easily destroyed.

Ashley Williams, however, got nuked.

I like this human.  He understands.

[Jawsomebob]

Imanol de Tafalla wrote...

Applying modern political views to a video game makes an individual look like a fool.

/thread

By the way, Kelly Chambers destroys your point.

Kelly Chambers was perfect for Cerberus. But she was kept in the dark just like Ashley would have been.

[Kathleen321]

De1ta G wrote...

I can see how Ashley would fit in nicely with Cerberus, as long as she was kept in the dark about the experiments. I don't see how a conservative would be ok with turning people in to husks.

Yeah she would devote herself to cerberus as long as she didn't know the horrendous things they were doing. Interesting point.

[Blue Gloves]

Let me start by saying: I really dislike Ashley. I think she's a racist and worse, she's never a tactical advantage for the way I play the game. Throughout my myriad playthroughs, my "mission comes first- always!" Shepards have never once been able to reconcile saving the enlisted, negligible military asset that is the "weapons expert" (a trainable and relatively common skillset) over the officer and (apparently very rare) Biotic Engineer.
So, that said, you'll know that I'm already biased in my opinion, but I think that Ash would be a perfect fit for Cererus if her recruitment and retainment was done in the same way that characters like Jocob, Donnelly and Gabby's were done. Except for this: Ashley's fully aware that Cerberus was responsible for not only the gruesome deaths of Admiral Kohaku and his men, but also actively allowed an entire PLT (possibly Shepard's, depending on her origin) to be devoured by Thresher Maws and then conducted extensive and painful tests on the lone survivor. If one thing about Ash's character is clear, it's that she's a marine, through and through, and marines are NOT in the habit of happily joining up with the folks that kill other marines.

[sammysoso]

She would never work with Cerberus. She despises their methods. Hell, she didn't even like the Terra Firma party, and they were less extreme than Cerberus.

Just because she has a general distrust of other species doesn't make her material for a terrorist group.

Really, Ash only trusts the Alliance, understandable given her family history.

[Mathias]

Jawsomebob wrote...

This is partically covered in http://social.biowar.../index/13302149
but my point is better and more specific.

Ashley Williams is a conservative and slightly racist in the first Mass effect.

Kadian is more liberal and more into other species existance.

From a moral standpoint Cerberus is also conservative, therefore Ashley Williams would fit right in. However the flipside (which bioware chose to do instead) is that a conservative like Ashley would also have high pride for the alliance.

To Williams Cerberus is a terrorist organization. However their worldviews fit in line with hers very well. The only thing that I think keeps Williams away from Cerberus is because they are simply not the alliance and she has a lot of loyalty. She has a lot of blind loyalist national pride and is proud to be alliance, but the raw truth is her ideals are basically the illusive mans ideals.

I think her charecter was spot on in remaining with the alliance in ME2 simply because of her conservative national pride, however her ideals themselves never were addressed in depth after ME1. The fact that had she wound up in Cerbrus in the first place, that she would of been the perfect operative is never brought up.

Kaidan however does not mesh with Cerbrus ideals. His ideals are more liberal. However I could see him leaving the alliance to work with Shepard if the need be, but not to join Cerbrus because of what they beleive in.

Kaidans reasons for not joining shepard are better than ashleys then because Kaidan doesnt join up in ME2 because he disagrees with the viewpoint of the group Shepard is working for. Ashley does agree with the viewpoint (perhaps not their methods) and simply does not like them because they are not the alliance.

The arrogance is strong in this one. I'm not even gonna go into how obnoxiously political this thread is with the OP's "Conservatives bad, Liberals good" mentality. But this is just another classic case of someone not understanding Ashley, so in order to do so, their mind can only perceive it in a more simple form.

"Durr Ashley no trust aliens. Cerberus don't like aliens. Ashley should be with Cerberus *drools*"

[Conniving_Eagle]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Cerberus is an idea, it cannot be easily destroyed.

Ashley Williams, however, got nuked.

You won the game.

[palician]

De1ta G wrote...

I can see how Ashley would fit in nicely with Cerberus, as long as she was kept in the dark about the experiments. I don't see how a conservative would be ok with turning people in to husks.

george bush was fine with killing many middle easterns for their oil so I dont think he'd have A problem with it.

[Dranks]

So conservatives are terrorists then? Is that what you're saying?

[Mathias]

Jawsomebob wrote...

This is partically covered in http://social.biowar.../index/13302149
but my point is better and more specific.

Ashley Williams is a conservative and slightly racist in the first Mass effect.

Kadian is more liberal and more into other species existance.

From a moral standpoint Cerberus is also conservative, therefore Ashley Williams would fit right in. However the flipside (which bioware chose to do instead) is that a conservative like Ashley would also have high pride for the alliance.

To Williams Cerberus is a terrorist organization. However their worldviews fit in line with hers very well. The only thing that I think keeps Williams away from Cerberus is because they are simply not the alliance and she has a lot of loyalty. She has a lot of blind loyalist national pride and is proud to be alliance, but the raw truth is her ideals are basically the illusive mans ideals.

I think her charecter was spot on in remaining with the alliance in ME2 simply because of her conservative national pride, however her ideals themselves never were addressed in depth after ME1. The fact that had she wound up in Cerbrus in the first place, that she would of been the perfect operative is never brought up.

Kaidan however does not mesh with Cerbrus ideals. His ideals are more liberal. However I could see him leaving the alliance to work with Shepard if the need be, but not to join Cerbrus because of what they beleive in.

Kaidans reasons for not joining shepard are better than ashleys then because Kaidan doesnt join up in ME2 because he disagrees with the viewpoint of the group Shepard is working for. Ashley does agree with the viewpoint (perhaps not their methods) and simply does not like them because they are not the alliance.

Or how about these reasons?

1. She isn't racist, and you don't know what a real racist is.
2. Terra Firma is Cerberus Lite, and she can't stand Terra Firma.
3. Cerberus commits horrible horrible atrocities, and Ashley has spoken about her disgust towards it multiple times.
4. She hates Cerberus so much that she didn't trust her former Commander when she found out he's working with them.

Modifié par Mdoggy1214, 27 juillet 2012 - 05:19 .

[mupp3tz]

I have to agree with something on Blue Gloves' post.

Shepard begins ME2 with no clue as to what Cerberus is. When you first meet Ashley Williams, it's blatantly obvious that she is fully aware of who they are and hates them. So, apparently, in the period between you getting spaced and restored, Cerbz was up to no good.

I don't think her opinion towards them has anything to do with being in the Alliance, but more so with her personal morals. Ashley joins the Alliance because of family history and strong convictions. She believes in what the Alliance stands for and is completely okay with acting under a chain of command. If her perspective was more aligned with Cerberus, she could just as easily switch over... just as Jacob did, who was looking for a way to serve humanity without being held back as much as he was in the Alliance.

I think that her position does make sense, in regards to her loyalty to humanity and hate for Cerberus. If anything, I think that the entire purpose of Ashley and Kaidan in ME1 is to provide a counter-viewpoint to the "Let's unite the galaxy!" mindset that people typically have when playing games as a "hero."

Edit: Also, applying the politically charged terms "Conservative" and "Liberal" to the pro-human vs. pro-galaxy conflict in Mass Effect is just LOL.

Modifié par M U P P 3 T Z, 27 juillet 2012 - 05:18 .

[Seifer006]

don't agree with OP

but I'm not going to start a flame war.

[Genetic Destiny]

With a few implants, ANYONE can be perfect for Cerberus. Its that simple.

Modifié par Genetic Destiny, 27 juillet 2012 - 05:55 .

[Binary_Helix 1]

I think it would have been cool if ME3 had a branching storyline based on the Collector Base decision. If you gave them the base you're still part of Cerberus with the coup attempt you can convince Ashely to join as well if you romanced her.

Modifié par Binary_Helix 1, 27 juillet 2012 - 05:58 .