45 réponses à ce sujet

[Xandurpein]

Ashley is a genuine conservative. TIM and Cerberus is not. Cerberus is the kind of millenarian sect that claims to be conservative, while they are in fact extremly radical. Ashley''s brand of conservatism is proud of theiir past and want to honor it, while Cerberus' brand fights for a fake utopian past that never existed. They are ot the same.

[Shad Croly]

Right, because being conservative is so the same as being morally bankrupt.

Cerberus members are terrorists who use unfathomably vile methods to promote human supremacy.

No one with any amount of common sense, decency, or any moral compass would support them.

[xsdob]

Considering she almost punched the guy running terra firma for disgracing her families legacy back in ME1, I doubt it. If the puppet political party for cerberus didn't sell her on joining, I doubt the real thing would appeal to her at all.

Modifié par xsdob, 27 juillet 2012 - 06:11 .

[Binary_Helix 1]

Xandurpein wrote...

Ashley is a genuine conservative. TIM and Cerberus is not. Cerberus is the kind of millenarian sect that claims to be conservative, while they are in fact extremly radical. Ashley''s brand of conservatism is proud of theiir past and want to honor it, while Cerberus' brand fights for a fake utopian past that never existed. They are ot the same.

There are three major types of conservative, imo.

The business right represented by Locke - life, liberty, and property.

The traditional right represented by Burke - good order is the foundation of all things

The revoultionary right represented by Nietzsche - anti-egalitarian, radical, doesn't care much for tradition.

Ashley is part of the traditional right where as Cerberus embraces the revoultionary right.

[SuperVulcan]

Renegade Shepard would have been perfect for Cerberus.

[Tritium315]

Zaire Taylor wrote...

But that would require Bioware making TWO characters, instead of just making Kaidan and Ashley the same character in ME2 and 3 like they already did.

It's funny 'cause it's true.

[Iakus]

Ash believes humanity should be able to stand on its own without depending on the goodwill of alien governments. She's a nationalist more than a racist.

Cerberus wants to advance humanity's interests in the galaxy by any means necessary. Including terrorism, murder, unethical (to say the least) medical experiments, and general mad science. Ash is loyal to humanity and the Alliance. Cerberus is (barring certain holdouts and idealists) loyal to Cerberus and some sort of "humanity as master race" ideal.

[xsdob]

Ashely's not murderously xenophopic and hates racist like the terra firma party, why would she join cerberus, and organization founded on being murderously racist?

It makes no sense if you actually pay attention to her character in ME1.

[Ryoten]

Jawsomebob wrote...

This is partically covered in http://social.biowar.../index/13302149
but my point is better and more specific.

Ashley Williams is a conservative and slightly racist in the first Mass effect.

Kadian is more liberal and more into other species existance.

From a moral standpoint Cerberus is also conservative, therefore Ashley Williams would fit right in. However the flipside (which bioware chose to do instead) is that a conservative like Ashley would also have high pride for the alliance.

To Williams Cerberus is a terrorist organization. However their worldviews fit in line with hers very well. The only thing that I think keeps Williams away from Cerberus is because they are simply not the alliance and she has a lot of loyalty. She has a lot of blind loyalist national pride and is proud to be alliance, but the raw truth is her ideals are basically the illusive mans ideals.

I think her charecter was spot on in remaining with the alliance in ME2 simply because of her conservative national pride, however her ideals themselves never were addressed in depth after ME1. The fact that had she wound up in Cerbrus in the first place, that she would of been the perfect operative is never brought up.

Kaidan however does not mesh with Cerbrus ideals. His ideals are more liberal. However I could see him leaving the alliance to work with Shepard if the need be, but not to join Cerbrus because of what they beleive in.

Kaidans reasons for not joining shepard are better than ashleys then because Kaidan doesnt join up in ME2 because he disagrees with the viewpoint of the group Shepard is working for. Ashley does agree with the viewpoint (perhaps not their methods) and simply does not like them because they are not the alliance.

This is insulting.  Personally i dont think politics and video games should mix.  Ever.  Which is why im reporting it.  I dont think this should be a debate.

Second i consider myself conservative.  And i am in no way, racist, or homophobic.  I support freedom of any religious beliefs in America, not just christian.  I'm simply anti-large government, and anti-socialism. 

I would not join cerberus, because its finatical.  Second, i feel that Ashley has a good reason for feeling the way she does.  You have your entire family looked down on and scoulded because of your fathers actions, and tell me you wont feel resentfull.  Ashley has legemit reasons for the way she feels.   I hate these arguements. 

[l7986]

 

Modifié par l7986, 27 juillet 2012 - 06:31 .

[Xandurpein]

@Binary_helix1. I agree, especially if you substitute conservative for the admittedly nebulous "right". It's just that the "business right" are only really conservative in parts of the world, notably North America and Western Europe. In many places It's quite radical to espouse such ideas.

The revolutionary right on the other hand is always defined by the past, even if it's a fake past. Even terrorist organizations like al-qaida fit this mold as they seek to recreate a fake utopian past.

[Binary_Helix 1]

Ryoten wrote...

This is insulting.  Personally i dont think politics and video games should mix.  Ever.  Which is why im reporting it.  I dont think this should be a debate.

There is no reason to report the guy. He's just trying to spark discussion. This is late night BSN so it's mostly us adults on.

Video games are very political nowadays and I like that. Not your silly this vs that horse race but serious stuff.

Modifié par Binary_Helix 1, 27 juillet 2012 - 06:46 .

[Ryoten]

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

Ryoten wrote...

This is insulting.  Personally i dont think politics and video games should mix.  Ever.  Which is why im reporting it.  I dont think this should be a debate.

There is no reason to report the guy. He's just trying to spark discussion. This is late night BSN so it's mostly us adults on.

Video games are very political nowadays and I like that. Not your silly this vs that horse race but serious stuff.

Video games are NOT political.  And when this crap starts, it starts arguements.  This is a video game forum.  Not politics.  It's going to start liberal vs. conservative arguements.  In fact it already has.  So no.  It's too late.  Reported.

Modifié par Ryoten, 27 juillet 2012 - 06:58 .

[Binary_Helix 1]

Arguments? lawl. That's all we do here regardless of topic.

In any case politics is not allowed if it's off topic. I thought the thread tied into ME but you're entitled to disagree.

[Blue Gloves]

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

Ryoten wrote...

This is insulting.  Personally i dont think politics and video games should mix.  Ever.  Which is why im reporting it.  I dont think this should be a debate.

There is no reason to report the guy. He's just trying to spark discussion. This is late night BSN so it's mostly us adults on.

Video games are very political nowadays and I like that. Not your silly this vs that horse race but serious stuff.

Agreed.  The fact is, this game (as with Bioware's last 4 games) has many poilitical, economic, and religious overtones.  It addresses hot button issues like sexuality and technological and genetic advances in human enhancement and even ethnic cleansing.  If you don't want to discuss politics, Ryoten, then don't, noon's twisting your arm.  Don't condemn those of us who enjoy debating the issue and how it relates to our favorite game though, please.  Also- I don't think OP's intent was to say:  'All you conservatives out there are terrorists"  So relax, man.  Have a cookie.

[Xandurpein]

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

Ryoten wrote...

This is insulting.  Personally i dont think politics and video games should mix.  Ever.  Which is why im reporting it.  I dont think this should be a debate.

There is no reason to report the guy. He's just trying to spark discussion. This is late night BSN so it's mostly us adults on.

Video games are very political nowadays and I like that. Not your silly this vs that horse race but serious stuff.

Good Science Fiction have a long tradition of being a media for exploring trends in society and draw them to it's extreme to show us something about ourselves or make us think where our path may lead society. That will always have a political implication, because politics is one of the primary means by which we shape our society. To say that video games can't be used to do this would be dumbing down the audience. I agree however that any such debate should be free of inflaming words.

And not to be a nitpicker, but it's only late night in North America. Where I live it's 0900 in the morning

[Ageless Face]

Ashley doesn't believe in human dominance. She believes humans need to look after themselves. Huge difference. And Cerberus' methods is also kind of a turn off.

[xsdob]

Can anyone actually name a time when ashely was overtly racist and sided against an alien in favor of a human? One time?

I can name when she told off the terra firma guy as a racist dragging her families name through the mud.

Modifié par xsdob, 27 juillet 2012 - 07:04 .

[mupp3tz]

It's funny because everyone so far has been able to handle the topic in stride, until someone comes in and decides to take it personally. Not to mention champion themselves as the end all be all of what *should* occur in a forum or how video games *should* be analyzed.

OP hasn't responded in quite a bit... but how sure are you exactly that he fully intended to use conservative and liberal in relation to political affiliation? Last time I checked, sentences like "Anna is a conservative girl." or "Your room is liberally decorated." weren't fueled by politics.

Get over yourself.  The only one making this a huge issue of (not to mention, steering the dialogue even further in that direction) this being a  "Conservative vs. Liberal" debate is you and maybe one or two others.

Everyone else is managing to get along just a-okay.

Modifié par M U P P 3 T Z, 27 juillet 2012 - 07:19 .

[Han Shot First]

xsdob wrote...

Can anyone actually name a time when ashely was overtly racist and sided against an alien in favor of a human? One time?

I can name when she told off the terra firma guy as a racist dragging her families name through the mud.

She also has an elevator conversation with Tali where she'll say that she hopes that Tali's contributions against Saren will help end some of the discrimination Quarians are faced with.

Ashley isn't a racist.

[dgcatanisiri]

Her reaction to the Terra Firma party is pretty telling - she mentions them in a Normandy conversation and is pretty negative, calling them jackals who have twisted the founders goals and she makes snide comments regarding them when you meet Seracino on the Citadel if she survives Virmire and is in your party. If she hates Terra Firma, she surely DESPISES Cerberus.

She's not racist, she's cautious about the aliens, which is understandable, particularly given the fact that her grandfather was in charge of Shanxi, which was taken by the turians during the war. And she gets the chance to see firsthand what Cerberus is up to. She might understand the idea behind Cerberus as originally founded, but she absolutely would NEVER join what it is in the games.