56 réponses à ce sujet

[Zan51]

It actually didn't hit me till now, 6 weeks after starting ME3, and playing through ME1 and 2. I think I just put it down to they were food for the organic part of the reaper... /le sigh.

[Jonata]

...indoctrination.

[Urbynwyldcat]

The catalyst doesn't exist! Thats why none of it made sense.

That's the theory I'm holding on to and I refuse to let go!

[elitehunter34]

Zan51 wrote...

Something just struck me, and it should have done so sooner. Reapers are not even vaguely realistic. I mean, come on, you can get DNA from a TOOTH in forensics, I know, I just finished a college course in it! We can already replicate suspect's DNA for DUI cases in the crime labs! It's called semiconservative replication - " each new cell contains one strand of original DNA and one newly synthesized strand of DNA. The original polynucleotide strand of DNA serves as a template to guide the synthesis of the new complementary polynucleotide of DNA." here - http://www.elmhurst..../582dnarep.html There is absolutely no reason to grind up any species for DNA! Get a sample, replicate it is the modern way to do it even now.

Information in the brain is electrical, sent through neurons, pathways. It is stored in the connections between the neurons. Turning the brains into mush only does one thing - makes it mush that rots fast and smells. You cannot build anything with pink slime, not even a good burger!

This whole concept of slushie people inside reapers is a load of bad pseudo science at worst, sheer imagination at best because that is not the way to store memories - even ME3 tells us that with the Geth!
I could have believed the more logical downloading of the electrical impulses from the minds of those captured for their memories than slushing their brains. And as for a variety of DNA all they had to do was raid a hospital or blood bank for enough DNA material!

And finally, if glow-stick star brat owns the Reapers, well then were we talking to it all along and not Sovereign and Harby? Because it has to be able to communicate with them, right? So it isn';t trapped in the Citadel as we have been believing, right? Since it is a VI program, it can do what the Geth do, move out of the citadel by uploading itself into the Reapers!

Two more, and to me, major, plot holes here. Geeze. Now tell me I'm wrong, please?

They might do some sort of mind upload before the actual liquification process.  We know that mind uploading is possible in the Mass Effect universe and this was shown in the Geth consensus mission.  We don't know the exact sequence of events in the Reaperization process.  This is probabably the way it happened.  That makes sense to me.

Modifié par elitehunter34, 27 juillet 2012 - 09:18 .

[mitsos96]

The creators first made robotic reapers (with the same shape and powers of current reapers). The catalyst used those robots to harvest the creators into the first 'true' reaper (amalgamation between organic and machine). This theory explains how the reapers were so successfull in the beginning of the cycle since a single reaper would have a real trouble harvesting an advanced civilization.

At least that's my take on things...

[Jadebaby]

Jonata wrote...

...indoctrination.

[flanny]

nice to see the EC tying up loose ends.

well we know star jar can get in peoples minds since he found the image of the boy from shepards mind, so mind control?

or maybe the thorian played a part, since it's known to have mind control.

or maybe bioware just put themselves in a corner with the catalyst idea and simply didn't know how to get out of it.

personally i would have preferred having no mention of reaper origins, though giving them a 'creator' sort of forces bioware's hand

[Capthon]

The Catalyst choosed Synthesis cycles ago ...

[comrade gando]

Jonata wrote...

...indoctrination.

How dare you bring logic in to this!? *pulls out flamethrower*

srsly just one word has never made more sense when describing this catastrophe of story telling.

[Mcfly616]

Who cares? We know he managed to enslave his creators.....long time sci fi fans already know that you don't get a detailed description of every little thing within a story....


This is one of those things that I'm glad it was left up to the imagination

[Rustedness]

SergeantSnookie wrote...

Wait...

Maybe something the Catalyst said went straight over my head, but I was always under the impression that the Reaper creators became the first Reaper willingly, and "They did not approve" meant they didn't like it, but they knew it had to be done.

Did I miss something important?

Well they were stupid enough to create an uncontralled AI to solve the problem of conflict between organic and synthetic, so it's plausible

[Memnon]

Optimystic_X wrote...

"My creators gave them form. I gave them function. They in turn give me purpose."

My personal theory is that Starkid's creators designed the first Sovereign-class dreadnoughts. Starkid then hacked and stole them. The final step was to imbue them with their own AI-level of intelligence (still slaves to his will of course); this was done in part by liquefying said creators and pouring them into each one.

I like this theory better than mine - my thought was that the Catalyst's creators made the first (non-true) Reapers and gave them to him as his method of brokering peace between AI and organics. So creators made an AI to broker peace between AI and organics, then gave him massive warships ... which makes them look like morons in retrospect. Still, if they didn't give him any 'muscle' then how was he supposed to be a peace broker?

Modifié par Stornskar, 27 juillet 2012 - 02:05 .

[Mcfly616]

Umm....you guys are thinking waaay too much into this.....the first Reaper is the embodiment of the Catalyst's creators......the Catalyst enslaved/harvested his creators into the first Reaper.....simple as that

[Memnon]

Mcfly616 wrote...

Umm....you guys are thinking waaay too much into this.....the first Reaper is the embodiment of the Catalyst's creators......the Catalyst enslaved/harvested his creators into the first Reaper.....simple as that

Are we really thinking way too much about this? I thought the endings were intentionally vague for that very reason. Regardless, this is discussed in the game:

Shepard: Where did the Reapers come from? Did you create them?
Catalyst: My creators gave them form; I gave them function. They, in turn give me purpose. The Reapers are a synthetic representation of my creators
Shepard: And what happened to your creators?
Catalyst: They became the first "true" Reaper. They did not approve, but it was the only solution

There aren't a lot of ways to interpret this - the creators made the machines, the Catalyst managed to control them. Either they were given to him intentionally or he took control of them ...

[Xellith]

It would make more sense if the catalysts creators were Synthetics.  Otherwise it means that organcis were having problems with synthetics and so created an AI.. which would be dumb.  Synethetics making an AI to find a solution is more plausable.  With the synthetics being overridden and uploaded to a reaper with the Catalyst controlling them all.  Unless he was already given the power to control the synthetics in order to help him find his "solution".

This is kind of similar to what the Geth had planned with their space station (geth citadel) where they would all be uploaded to it.  Its possible that they would  eventually have tried to find a "solution" to the constant warring between organics and synthetics.

Modifié par Xellith, 27 juillet 2012 - 02:23 .

[macrocarl]

"My creators gave them form. I gave them function. They in turn give me purpose."

My creators built them. I commanded them to preserve life in Cuttlefish space robots. At last I got my birthday wish to be toothpaste DNA goalie.

[Rustedness]

Xellith wrote...

It would make more sense if the catalysts creators were Synthetics.  Otherwise it means that organcis were having problems with synthetics and so created an AI.. which would be dumb.  Synethetics making an AI to find a solution is more plausable.  With the synthetics being overridden and uploaded to a reaper with the Catalyst controlling them all.  Unless he was already given the power to control the synthetics in order to help him find his "solution".

That's interesting... the Creator's being synthetic... I must admit I'd never considered that...

[Discouraged_one]

Integrity that is artistic

[Mcfly616]

Stornskar wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Umm....you guys are thinking waaay too much into this.....the first Reaper is the embodiment of the Catalyst's creators......the Catalyst enslaved/harvested his creators into the first Reaper.....simple as that

Are we really thinking way too much about this? I thought the endings were intentionally vague for that very reason. Regardless, this is discussed in the game:

Shepard: Where did the Reapers come from? Did you create them?
Catalyst: My creators gave them form; I gave them function. They, in turn give me purpose. The Reapers are a synthetic representation of my creators
Shepard: And what happened to your creators?
Catalyst: They became the first "true" Reaper. They did not approve, but it was the only solution

There aren't a lot of ways to interpret this - the creators made the machines, the Catalyst managed to control them. Either they were given to him intentionally or he took control of them ...

umm yeah....theres plenty of ways to interpret it.....
You see "My creators gave them form" as meaning his creators created Reapers.....

I see it as "since I enslaved my creators(and they were the very first Reaper), the Reapers were made in the image of my creators.."...OR....."my creators gave them form"


You have your interpretation.....and I have mine....which is quite obviously a bit more straight-forward....just think about what a Reaper is.....its the collective of an entire harvested species.....well, the Catalysts creators were the first harvested species AKA the first Reaper.....AKA the Catalysts creators did not create the Reapers....HE DID

Modifié par Mcfly616, 27 juillet 2012 - 02:35 .

[Shallyah]

There is a very solid irony in the topic of this thread, but for the greater good I'll just say: Good luck in your quest.

Modifié par Shallyah, 27 juillet 2012 - 02:38 .

[The_Shootist]

Wayning_Star wrote...

How did the Catalyst defeat it's builders without reapers?

Indoctrination?

[Xandurpein]

The_Shootist wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

How did the Catalyst defeat it's builders without reapers?

Indoctrination?

While it's technically possible that Catalyst used indoctrination to achieve its end, it creates a logical loop for me. Catalyst claims that the Creators didn't approve of Catalyst solution, but if they were indoctrinated they would have approved and agreed willingly.

[Xellith]

Synthetics created the catalyst. Makes more sense.

Geth Dyson Sphere Mega Structure (Geth Citadel).  They sit there thinking as a hive mind.  They say "well we wanna understand organics".  Those tests they ran on the extranet are proof that geth want to understand organics more. 

They dont want to harm organics either.  Not wiping out the quarians and welcoming them back to Rannoch are examples of this.

So you get the Geth in the Geth Citadel and they create a program to find a solution to the "conflict".  This program possibly would be given control of all Geth or would even just present its solution (which the Geth might not agree with but still perform anyways since its the best solution avaliable).  The geth (whom might upload themselves to new ships - reapers) might try uploading organic minds to their concensus (the geth concensus mission with the Reaper code).

Whether or not the Geth would actually come to the same conclusion as the Catalyst is unknown. /shrug.  The geth have said that they just wanna live in peace and that nobody would be involved with their plans unless they intentionally put themelves in the way of them.  (Which organics are most likely to do since they are dumb).

Some of what the catalyst said does make some sense when taken like this.  But it still involves a lot of faith as to the actual end goals and methods of the Geth.

Modifié par Xellith, 27 juillet 2012 - 03:20 .

[ThaDPG]

so if the first reaper was created in the form of starkid's creators, why does every reaper we've seen look pretty similar, if a reaper is created from the harvesting of a cycle? Remember the human reaper from the end of ME2? He didn't look anything like the rest....

[Xellith]

The huge reapers have the species reaper stored inside the shell. The Destroyer reapers I think are just straight up made with Biosynthetic ingredients.