Well written, but I don't agree.
Gold is supposed to be hard. It was the highest difficulty for half a year until recently when people starting to max out their manifests and wanted a new challenge.
Gold is still not there for newbies to start in. They are supposed to start with Bronze, unlock all the common and most of the uncommon and then move up to Silver.
During this time, make friends with other Bronze / Silver players. Play with them. Talk with them, Play Gold with them.
If my friends are not available or their parties is full, I'm perfectly happy with PUGing Silver until a spot opens.
Even though I like this mutiplayer, I find it to be quite contradictory.
Débuté par
Optimistman
, juil. 27 2012 09:22
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#27
Posté 27 juillet 2012 - 12:32
taomang
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Agreed. I've been feeling like this for a month now. It feels more frustrating than enjoying to play multiplayer nowadays. I don't like adding people to my friend list, so i just PUG. It makes the game much more interesting, but now the game is really punishing less skilled players in PUGs. You can barely even carry anyone nowadays.
#28
Posté 27 juillet 2012 - 12:43
SilentCO1
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Just because people have everything maxed out doesn't make them elitists, it just means they like the game enough to play it a lot or even pay real money for packs.
But yeah, the only thing keeping me are new DLCs and the occasional Ultra Rare is fun to get.
But yeah, the only thing keeping me are new DLCs and the occasional Ultra Rare is fun to get.
#29
Posté 27 juillet 2012 - 12:44
Chealec
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The game has not got harder since launch - if anything it's got easier. Try to think back to using a regular Human Adept with a gimpy broken Shockwave and no Commado Gear, or Soldiers without Grenade gear, no Harrier or Typhoon... if you wanted to use Reave you'd have to take the Drell Adept, and originally he was even squishier than he is now and you'd not have had grenade gear to turn him into a constant spawn nuking beast (and IIRC Thermal Clip packs originally did NOT restock your grenades).
Platinum is now probably only marginally harder than gold was originally, gold is a bit harder than silver was, silver is bronze and bronze is la la land...
... it's possible, of course, that I've got better at the game as well - so the comparitive difficulties seem easier.
Besides, difficulty doesn't force people into farming; playing the game for credits, exploiting flaws in the mechanics (Banshees getting stuck behind the counter in FBW), and generally looking at it as a "job"... that's what turns you into a farmer.
I see so many posts along the lines of "I worked for hours, bought loads of PSPs and all I got was crappy level IV ammo" ... seriously no, you PLAYED A GAME for hours, it SHOULD have been fun, getting new shinies from packs (any shinies) is just an added bonus. What happens when you've maxed everything? You'll quit the game I guess.
There are decent, gold viable classes/weapons without ever getting beyond "uncommon" unlocks - a regular Human Sentinel with a Phaeston is gold viable - lethal in fact against Reapers as are all the biotics. The Salarian Infiltrator is perfectly usable with a Mantis.
Once you've got the hang of gold and are rocking it with uncommons it really doesn't take long to get most of the rares maxed out - do that and you've got a Destroyer with a Revenant and a Piranha which is one of the best load-outs going.
Platinum is now probably only marginally harder than gold was originally, gold is a bit harder than silver was, silver is bronze and bronze is la la land...
... it's possible, of course, that I've got better at the game as well - so the comparitive difficulties seem easier.
Besides, difficulty doesn't force people into farming; playing the game for credits, exploiting flaws in the mechanics (Banshees getting stuck behind the counter in FBW), and generally looking at it as a "job"... that's what turns you into a farmer.
I see so many posts along the lines of "I worked for hours, bought loads of PSPs and all I got was crappy level IV ammo" ... seriously no, you PLAYED A GAME for hours, it SHOULD have been fun, getting new shinies from packs (any shinies) is just an added bonus. What happens when you've maxed everything? You'll quit the game I guess.
ExecutorBG wrote...
I actually can't imagine myself now starting as a new player with no weapons...
I would have to spend timeless hours on bronze and silver with a novaguard or HE till I get some decent weapons and classess to play with.
...
There are decent, gold viable classes/weapons without ever getting beyond "uncommon" unlocks - a regular Human Sentinel with a Phaeston is gold viable - lethal in fact against Reapers as are all the biotics. The Salarian Infiltrator is perfectly usable with a Mantis.
Once you've got the hang of gold and are rocking it with uncommons it really doesn't take long to get most of the rares maxed out - do that and you've got a Destroyer with a Revenant and a Piranha which is one of the best load-outs going.
#30
Guest_Ghostknife72_*
Posté 27 juillet 2012 - 12:45
Guest_Ghostknife72_*
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I agree. This game is going to suffer a "death by 1000 cuts", if trends continue. Each tweak makes playing more unbearable and you are forced to adjust over and over again.
An example, I REALLY liked the Batarians when they came out. They were a solid, fun class and had a decent skill set. Yet, when it comes to Geth on Gold or Platinum, I avoid using them like the plague. Why? STUNLOCK. Talk about frustration.
Another example, I like Firebase Hydra (and no not for the camping spot, you b*st*rds :-)). But again, vs. Geth it is a tough, real tough match in later rounds. Primes three hitting you across the map with PERFECT accuracy, c'mon I didn't even have a chance to move. There isn't much skill that comes into play with enemy tactics like that, just bunker down and survive. Like someone else posted, "the Geth haven't become harder, just cheap shots."
As for the nerfing of weapons. I can see it from a PvP perspective. Like the 1887(or most shotguns) in CoD. They had a range of most ARs, but with the power of a shotgun. That made it tough to compete and eventually everyone (even noobs) had them. It made it unbearable. It was a shotgun fest 24/7.
However, these constant little tweaks, in a Co-Op game mind you, become annoying at best and make me not want to play at worst. And before anyone says it, I DO NOT mean the Krysae. I never really snipe, so it didn't affect me at all. But it did affect my teammates on a nicely balanced team.
Nevertheless, I am more concerned about is what is coming. Is the Harrier, Paladin, Scorpion, Piranha, Typhoon, Claymore, or GPS next? It takes time to get your game play down and find the best fit for your style of play (e.g. I like the Engineers for a support class, but never play Infiltrators). If you HAVE to change every time because a weapon is altered enough that it is no longer effective, the game becomes tedious, not challenging (I'd love to use the GPR, but I'd also like to extract, not die horribly).
I love a good challenge, but I'd rather not acquire PTSD from a video game.
An example, I REALLY liked the Batarians when they came out. They were a solid, fun class and had a decent skill set. Yet, when it comes to Geth on Gold or Platinum, I avoid using them like the plague. Why? STUNLOCK. Talk about frustration.
Another example, I like Firebase Hydra (and no not for the camping spot, you b*st*rds :-)). But again, vs. Geth it is a tough, real tough match in later rounds. Primes three hitting you across the map with PERFECT accuracy, c'mon I didn't even have a chance to move. There isn't much skill that comes into play with enemy tactics like that, just bunker down and survive. Like someone else posted, "the Geth haven't become harder, just cheap shots."
As for the nerfing of weapons. I can see it from a PvP perspective. Like the 1887(or most shotguns) in CoD. They had a range of most ARs, but with the power of a shotgun. That made it tough to compete and eventually everyone (even noobs) had them. It made it unbearable. It was a shotgun fest 24/7.
However, these constant little tweaks, in a Co-Op game mind you, become annoying at best and make me not want to play at worst. And before anyone says it, I DO NOT mean the Krysae. I never really snipe, so it didn't affect me at all. But it did affect my teammates on a nicely balanced team.
Nevertheless, I am more concerned about is what is coming. Is the Harrier, Paladin, Scorpion, Piranha, Typhoon, Claymore, or GPS next? It takes time to get your game play down and find the best fit for your style of play (e.g. I like the Engineers for a support class, but never play Infiltrators). If you HAVE to change every time because a weapon is altered enough that it is no longer effective, the game becomes tedious, not challenging (I'd love to use the GPR, but I'd also like to extract, not die horribly).
I love a good challenge, but I'd rather not acquire PTSD from a video game.
#32
Posté 27 juillet 2012 - 12:49
xtorma
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Killahead wrote...
"Incredibly increasing difficulty"... can't say I agree at all. If anything, the game is suffering from a power creep that needs to be dealt with. Apart from that I think multiplayer is better than ever. Just moderately nerf a couple of extremely effective setups and buff a whole lot of underwhelming powers and weapons, and it's all good.
Doesn't agree with increasing difficulty.
Calls for "a whole lot" of buffs and a couple nerfs.
?
#33
Posté 27 juillet 2012 - 12:50
Revrant
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Bravo, sir, the B1oDrones have taken us to this negative place, I only hope voices of reason such as yours help dislodge us.
#34
Posté 27 juillet 2012 - 01:05
SoulRebel_1979
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Chealec wrote...
The game has not got harder since launch - if anything it's got easier.
I agree 100%. With the addition of new powerful weapons and classes, rank IV ammo types, and a whole new slot for gear, the game is easier than it's ever been.
#35
Posté 27 juillet 2012 - 01:08
ToaOrka
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You're totally right - I too noticed it's harder to actually get into any valid gold matches.
Still, I kinda wince when I see enemy on unknown - there's a chance of the dreaded Geth.
Still, I kinda wince when I see enemy on unknown - there's a chance of the dreaded Geth.
#36
Posté 27 juillet 2012 - 01:09
UnRestrikted
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+1
I agree with the OP wholeheartedly. Hopefully Bioware sees your post and takes it into serious consideration. I highly doubt it though =\\
I agree with the OP wholeheartedly. Hopefully Bioware sees your post and takes it into serious consideration. I highly doubt it though =\\
#37
Posté 27 juillet 2012 - 01:19
LeandroBraz
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LGear wrote...
Optimistman wrote...
Honestly I think the drastic nerfing of weapons
I would agree with the rest of your post, save for one gripe. For weapons, only the Falcon and the Krysae have been majorly nerfed in the past few months, with all other weapons getting buffs (including the entire AR and SMG line). Sure the buffs aren't overly drastic compared to the high-profile nerfs, but they're still buffs nonetheless, with many having benefited (ex. the Arc Pistol, that so many derided as useless, now has able users in Gold from my experience). Also, many abilities and powers have been buffed since then, including Tech Armor, Grenades, etc.
I still do not seriously get how people still think that all we're getting in ME3 MP are buffs. It's become a pet peeve of mine at this point.
Otherwise though, I actually quite agree with the rest of your points.
and it was not so bad. I used the Falcon after the nerf only, she is amazing and work just fine. I tried the Krysae yesterday, still very effective. It do what she supposed to do: Good at range and can save you easily at close range. What happened is that who use it all the time, felt the impact of the nerf. I wasn't using it for a while, so I couldn't feel the difference, just that she still a good weapon, not useless like most players try to show here.
Anyway, I agree that it's more hard now to do public games, but there's something we need to look at. Most of the good players are now playing platinum most of the time, so we have less chance of getting a good team on gold public matches.
#39
Posté 27 juillet 2012 - 01:28
Killahead
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xtorma wrote...
Killahead wrote...
"Incredibly increasing difficulty"... can't say I agree at all. If anything, the game is suffering from a power creep that needs to be dealt with. Apart from that I think multiplayer is better than ever. Just moderately nerf a couple of extremely effective setups and buff a whole lot of underwhelming powers and weapons, and it's all good.
Doesn't agree with increasing difficulty.
Calls for "a whole lot" of buffs and a couple nerfs.
?
Easy to explain:
The highest difficulty should IMO provide a formidable challenge regardless of what setup you bring into it. Currently there are options that diminish the challenge of platinum and gold, while others aren't worth taking to these difficulties at all. Nerf the ones that make it possible to take out an Atlas in 10 seconds, buff the ones that take 10 minutes to do the same, to simplify it. This means a lot more buffing than nerfing. Still people call me a "nerfer" for some reason.
The argument "well, some need OP stuff to play platinum" doesn't ring true in my ears. That means these players should stick to lower difficulties. We have different difficulties for a reason.
#40
Posté 27 juillet 2012 - 01:43
BDelacroix
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I have noticed this happens in many games. The game comes out, people play. Its fun for the most part. Then it gets easy for those who play a lot. That is the natural order of things.
Except because it becomes easy, they want things changed to be harder. Sometimes a company doesn't do that, often times they do. This causes two problems. A new player or returning player has not the skills or has lost the skills and the game isn't fun anymore because it is now tuned for someone who practices a large amount of time. You can get back to that point, but the trip isn't fun anymore.
It is a difficult thing, I imagine, to discern between fixing something that legitimately needs to be fixed and "fixing" that is really just making the game harder for people are now used to the game and are well practiced.
Except because it becomes easy, they want things changed to be harder. Sometimes a company doesn't do that, often times they do. This causes two problems. A new player or returning player has not the skills or has lost the skills and the game isn't fun anymore because it is now tuned for someone who practices a large amount of time. You can get back to that point, but the trip isn't fun anymore.
It is a difficult thing, I imagine, to discern between fixing something that legitimately needs to be fixed and "fixing" that is really just making the game harder for people are now used to the game and are well practiced.
#41
Posté 27 juillet 2012 - 02:19
canerican
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Xx_Belzak_xX wrote...
I almost ran to grab the scissors, im serious lol
#42
Posté 27 juillet 2012 - 05:28
Optimistman
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Killahead wrote...
"Incredibly increasing difficulty"... can't say I agree at all. If anything, the game is suffering from a power creep that needs to be dealt with. Apart from that I think multiplayer is better than ever. Just moderately nerf a couple of extremely effective setups and buff a whole lot of underwhelming powers and weapons, and it's all good.
You can't agree with all because you are one of those people that once again think because you are god at this game, other people are on the same skill level. You may not even be good but rather playing with people that carry you, either way. You know what the power creep is? The constant imbalance of classes. It isn't a "creep", this has been here since the launch of this game. Nerfing powerful classes that still have trouble in most peoples' hands isn't the answer and is quite the negative solution. Buffing underwhelming classes would only increase variety in the firebase white geth gold matches we see because the game will yet still be excessively difficult. There's no point in nerfing something that's effective, it is effective for a reason.
#43
Posté 27 juillet 2012 - 05:40
Optimistman
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IndigoVitare wrote...
Optimistman wrote...
Honestly I think the drastic nerfing of weapons
I must have missed it when they nerfed the Claymore, Talon, Carnifex, Black Widow, Valiant, Hurricane, Geth Plasma shotgun, Graal, Wraith, Piranha, Typhoon, Saber, Paladin, Viper, Phaeston, Revenent, Scorpion and any of the other common Gold weapons I've forgotton.
Oh, but what have they nerfed? Krysae, Reegar, Minor weight increase of Harrier, Falcon... er that's it (distance penetration on Typhoon does not count simply because 100cm was so mind-numbingly absurd in the first place. It's the same as the Javelin for goodness sake).
OH GOD THE DRASTIC NERFING OF WEAPONS HAS MADE THIS GAME IMPOSSIBLE!
Quarian Engineer is not a "gimped class", it's one of the best classes in the game post June 21.
Though you are right about broken Geth hackers and magnet hand sync kills.
You're completely missing the point and made quite a few bad points on your own part. Most of the weapons you named require sheer skill to even play with, especially the claymore, and when have you ever seen any of these gun used regularly? Exactly, your point is moot because no one is going to nerf weapons that are ineffective in the first place.
The point is by nerfing the few weapons that are actually effective against such high difficulty, such as the krysae, they are making even fewer people branch out from firebase white. It's stupid. The krysae is one of those pointless guns now. And i'm guessing you have forgotten the insane nerf against the falcon, a weapon that didn't even work fully in that matter.
And i don't know if you think getting top score with female quarian engineer in firebase white makes her viable or you are just incredibly naive. But the quarian engineer is still a terrible class to play with on gold and platinum. How many times have you honestly seen female quarian engineers on pugs? Rarely, because alot of other people share these same views.
#44
Posté 27 juillet 2012 - 05:42
Mgamerz
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Enemies doing logical executions?
OH THE HUMANITY! MUST COMPLAIN ABOUT IT ON BSN!
OH THE HUMANITY! MUST COMPLAIN ABOUT IT ON BSN!
#45
Posté 27 juillet 2012 - 05:45
Killahead
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Optimistman wrote...
Killahead wrote...
"Incredibly increasing difficulty"... can't say I agree at all. If anything, the game is suffering from a power creep that needs to be dealt with. Apart from that I think multiplayer is better than ever. Just moderately nerf a couple of extremely effective setups and buff a whole lot of underwhelming powers and weapons, and it's all good.
You can't agree with all because you are one of those people that once again think because you are god at this game, other people are on the same skill level. You may not even be good but rather playing with people that carry you, either way. You know what the power creep is? The constant imbalance of classes. It isn't a "creep", this has been here since the launch of this game. Nerfing powerful classes that still have trouble in most peoples' hands isn't the answer and is quite the negative solution. Buffing underwhelming classes would only increase variety in the firebase white geth gold matches we see because the game will yet still be excessively difficult. There's no point in nerfing something that's effective, it is effective for a reason.
I'd rather not deal with assumptions, arguments are my thing. So I'll ignore the whole "you may not even be good" thing and all that which doesn't belong in a discussion.
What is the reason for something being effective then? If it is winning/ scoring credits, then we have a fundamental disagreement on what a game should be and offer. We have four difficulties in this game, I expect at least two of them to be fairly difficult. If I couldn't play platinum, then I would have no problem with that. I certainly wouldn't expect a weapon or a class to enable me to do it if no other options did. Furthermore there's no reason why weapons and classes can't be balanced, there is a ton of variables attributed to each class, power and weapon that can be altered to make each one of them feel unique, fill a niche and perform differently in different situations.
Modifié par Killahead, 27 juillet 2012 - 05:46 .
#46
Posté 27 juillet 2012 - 05:45
Optimistman
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Humming wrote...
Well written, but I don't agree.
Gold is supposed to be hard. It was the highest difficulty for half a year until recently when people starting to max out their manifests and wanted a new challenge.
Gold is still not there for newbies to start in. They are supposed to start with Bronze, unlock all the common and most of the uncommon and then move up to Silver.
During this time, make friends with other Bronze / Silver players. Play with them. Talk with them, Play Gold with them.
If my friends are not available or their parties is full, I'm perfectly happy with PUGing Silver until a spot opens.
I could of sworn i said don't throw that brain-dead "play with your friends all the times, durrrrr" garbage my way in my original post.............
Gold is there for the skilled true, but it is not there for randoms. I'm no newbie, if you took two seconds to look at my manifest, i'm far from so. I have alot of weapons maxed out and i still find gold with randoms to be a trial of hell. So no, there are no excuses for most of the things that happen in alot of the higher difficulties and even the lower sometimes.
#47
Posté 27 juillet 2012 - 05:51
WickedTruth 823
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ExecutorBG wrote...
I actually can't imagine myself now starting as a new player with no weapons...
I would have to spend timeless hours on bronze and silver with a novaguard or HE till I get some decent weapons and classess to play with.
Then the next easy thing would be to get a salarian engineer and farm my ass on gold geth fbw and get carried, until I can unlock some decent stuff... And then get frustrated of all the nerfings around
thats what me and my squad are having to do with one of our buddies to get him up to speed... he just bought the game a couple of days ago... hes finally getting some decent stuff... but hes so frustrated with only dying all the time cause he only has guns that are a bit weak for gold...
#48
Posté 27 juillet 2012 - 05:55
rockthatwood
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Chealec wrote...
The game has not got harder since launch - if anything it's got easier. Try to think back to using a regular Human Adept with a gimpy broken Shockwave and no Commado Gear, or Soldiers without Grenade gear, no Harrier or Typhoon... if you wanted to use Reave you'd have to take the Drell Adept, and originally he was even squishier than he is now and you'd not have had grenade gear to turn him into a constant spawn nuking beast (and IIRC Thermal Clip packs originally did NOT restock your grenades).
Platinum is now probably only marginally harder than gold was originally, gold is a bit harder than silver was, silver is bronze and bronze is la la land...
... it's possible, of course, that I've got better at the game as well - so the comparitive difficulties seem easier.
Besides, difficulty doesn't force people into farming; playing the game for credits, exploiting flaws in the mechanics (Banshees getting stuck behind the counter in FBW), and generally looking at it as a "job"... that's what turns you into a farmer.
I see so many posts along the lines of "I worked for hours, bought loads of PSPs and all I got was crappy level IV ammo" ... seriously no, you PLAYED A GAME for hours, it SHOULD have been fun, getting new shinies from packs (any shinies) is just an added bonus. What happens when you've maxed everything? You'll quit the game I guess.ExecutorBG wrote...
I actually can't imagine myself now starting as a new player with no weapons...
I would have to spend timeless hours on bronze and silver with a novaguard or HE till I get some decent weapons and classess to play with.
...
There are decent, gold viable classes/weapons without ever getting beyond "uncommon" unlocks - a regular Human Sentinel with a Phaeston is gold viable - lethal in fact against Reapers as are all the biotics. The Salarian Infiltrator is perfectly usable with a Mantis.
Once you've got the hang of gold and are rocking it with uncommons it really doesn't take long to get most of the rares maxed out - do that and you've got a Destroyer with a Revenant and a Piranha which is one of the best load-outs going.
Apparently you missed the whole point of the OP's post. First off, you are wrong that silver is bronze and bronze is "la la land". Secondly, you may think that this game is easy, but others do not. And you probably think it is easy because you run one or two classes and sit back on FBW.
Anyways, the point was that Bioware is changing the game to the point where you are forced to only use certain characters and weapons and farm in order to do good on higher difficulties/earn credits.
#49
Posté 27 juillet 2012 - 05:55
nukembaby
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To the OP and all those who agree with him. If you feel that gold has suddenly become much harder after the recent updates, you never belonged there in the first place.
#50
Posté 27 juillet 2012 - 05:55
Optimistman
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Killahead wrote...
Optimistman wrote...
Killahead wrote...
"Incredibly increasing difficulty"... can't say I agree at all. If anything, the game is suffering from a power creep that needs to be dealt with. Apart from that I think multiplayer is better than ever. Just moderately nerf a couple of extremely effective setups and buff a whole lot of underwhelming powers and weapons, and it's all good.
You can't agree with all because you are one of those people that once again think because you are god at this game, other people are on the same skill level. You may not even be good but rather playing with people that carry you, either way. You know what the power creep is? The constant imbalance of classes. It isn't a "creep", this has been here since the launch of this game. Nerfing powerful classes that still have trouble in most peoples' hands isn't the answer and is quite the negative solution. Buffing underwhelming classes would only increase variety in the firebase white geth gold matches we see because the game will yet still be excessively difficult. There's no point in nerfing something that's effective, it is effective for a reason.
I'd rather not deal with assumptions, arguments are my thing. So I'll ignore the whole "you may not even be good" thing and all that which doesn't belong in a discussion.
What is the reason for something being effective then? If it is winning/ scoring credits, then we have a fundamental disagreement on what a game should be and offer. We have four difficulties in this game, I expect at least two of them to be fairly difficult. If I couldn't play platinum, then I would have no problem with that. I certainly wouldn't expect a weapon or a class to enable me to do it if no other options did. Furthermore there's no reason why weapons and classes can't be balanced, there is a ton of variables attributed to each class, power and weapon that can be altered to make each one of them feel unique, fill a niche and perform differently in different situations.
Assuming that i'm making assumptions is the incredibly ignorant thing to do. When someone says may, thats not making an assumption. It's stating a possibility. If you don't understand that, then so be it.
Yes, the reason for something to be effective is so that it can help towards a certain goal. A game with potato shooting weapons and classes that have no advantages against the enemy is utlimately what is seems like you are aiming for. I never said the classes couldn't be balanced; in fact i said the exact opposite.
