194 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

So, it's all the Templars fault is it?

Yes.

How many churches did the Templars blow up? hum, was it a Templar who said "There can be no comparmise".

They slaughtered eighteen Circles, then left the Chantry so they could kill more. Among other things.

[Vox Draco]

We...he..hell....hmmm....Magesor templars? In DA2 it was never a big question for me, I always help the mages, as I cannot stand MEredith' attitude, and of course idiot-Carver is choosing their side if he gets the chance...

But personal feelings aside: Choosing between lyrium-addicted fanatics or people of incredible power that can hardly be controlled by "normal" people if things go really bad? A world without mages or a second Tevinter-Empire based on bloodmagic and sacrifices? Tough decision. If possible, I will try to return to an improved status-quo.

The magic in Thedas is dangerous, mages are in a way living "nuclear" weapons, and considering how few mages there are and how many "normal" people I think mages need some kind of control-instance above them. Though it should not be like those dreadful qunari are doing it, treating their mages like dogs on leashes...

Mages should have a say in their life, a personal freedom within reasonable boundaries. Not a simple thing to achieve I am afraid, but the only way I see this conflict can be solved without major changes to the universe. Which brings me to non-ingame-reasons why I think status-quo is the only canonic-way to go: I want future Dragon Age games that are not prequels...

As I see it, if you make the possible outcomes of DA3 too different from each other it will be very hard to connect a fourth installment of the series. A little like the problem ME3 has: the changes the silliness of the ending potentially do to the ME-Universe are so different from each other, you cannot make another game building up ion every possible decision...

A potential DA4...? Mages freed or destroyed is a vast difference I'd say and leads to two very different settings, that's why I don't belief that our actions in DA3 will have a significant impact beyond this game. Which doesn't have to be that bad, I like that in DAO we "only" save Ferelden. That's enough for me, I do not want my action to have an impact on the world, especially not if done so badly as in ME3..

[Arthur Cousland]

Mages will never be "destroyed", as there will always be mages born.

I suppose I favor a "status-quo", as there will always be mages, and the need for people with the ability to control the ones who get out of hand. What I don't favor are circles that are run like a prison, templars who make mages tranquil for any reason, and bait them to turn to blood magic for lolz. Hopefully in DA3, we'll see more Gregoir and less Meredith.

[MisterJB]

Yes.

No.

They slaughtered eighteen Circles, then left the Chantry so they could kill more. Among other things.

Eigtheen Circle annulated over the course of centuries and only after the tower had been overrun by Abominations and Maleficarum.
Yes, how awful of them.

[Xilizhra]

Eigtheen Circle annulated over the course of centuries and only after the tower had been overrun by Abominations and Maleficarum.

Consider the precedent. The Annulment in Ferelden was unnecessary and the one in Kirkwall goes way beyond unnecessary.
And consider that in Ferelden, the supposedly "overrun" tower could be cleared by four people, three of whom could be a mage completely fresh from apprenticeship, a still rather noobish Grey Warden, and a dog. While keeping the Circle intact.

[MisterJB]

The Warden, by virtue of being the protagonist, is an exceptional character with figthing abilities that goes beyond that of mere NPCs. Lorewise, Abominations are known to kill hundreds of people before they are stopped.

We know the details of three Rights of Annulment. One in the Nevarra Circle where the Templars executed a mage for practicing blood magic. They were, thus, only fulfilling their duty and the mages answered by summoning demons. That Annulment was necessary.

In Ferelden, it was incredibly necessary. The tower had been overrun by dozens of Abominations and demons and blood mages.

In Kirkwall, it was unnecessary but it was only declared due to Meredith's paranoid nature and the Lyrium Idol. Her own templars turned against her eventually.

[Xilizhra]

The Warden, by virtue of being the protagonist, is an exceptional character with figthing abilities that goes beyond that of mere NPCs.

Not good enough. Are there no exceptional fighters in the templars? Are there no exceptional fighters in the mages that the templars might have been able to get on their side had they not just left them all to die? You have to consider in-universe facts.

Lorewise, Abominations are known to kill hundreds of people before they are stopped.

Let me correct that for you. Lorewise, there have been abominations known to kill hundreds of people before they are stopped. That doesn't mean that all, most, or barely any abominations are at that level of power. Something only needs to happen once in a great while for it to be blown out of proportion like that. Notably, the one time we saw this happen in-game, at Redcliffe, the abomination in question was willing and could access much greater power, which I'm guessing is what happens when abominations kill that many people.

We know the details of three Rights of Annulment. One in the Nevarra Circle where the Templars executed a mage for practicing blood magic. They were, thus, only fulfilling their duty and the mages answered by summoning demons. That Annulment was necessary.

Performing their duty based on an unjust law. This is no help whatsoever.

In Ferelden, it was incredibly necessary. The tower had been overrun by dozens of Abominations and demons and blood mages.

And yet it could be saved, unless the templars are so spectacularly incompetent that there aren't four in the entire nation who could have helped the situation. Plus, the possibility of mages if they didn't abandon them.

In Kirkwall, it was unnecessary but it was only declared due to Meredith's paranoid nature and the Lyrium Idol. Her own templars turned against her eventually.

Actually, they didn't. She turned on her templars.

[MisterJB]

Not good enough. Are there no exceptional fighters in the templars? Are there no exceptional fighters in the mages that the templars might have been able to get on their side had they not just left them all to die? You have to consider in-universe facts.

In-universe, the Warden is capable of killing an Archdemon with a point stick. His accomplishments don't disprove the competence of others.

Let me correct that for you. Lorewise, there have been abominations known to kill hundreds of people before they are stopped. That doesn't mean that all, most, or barely any abominations are at that level of power. Something only needs to happen once in a great while for it to be blown out of proportion like that. Notably, the one time we saw this happen in-game, at Redcliffe, the abomination in question was willing and could access much greater power, which I'm guessing is what happens when abominations kill that many people.

Meredith is of the lowliest birth. She had no servants or armies. Her younger sister was possessed and killed over 70 people.
A peasant child without the sligthest training in magic was capable of causing that much damage. Abominations are incredibly dangerous, the games just fail to convey this because the protagonist kill hordes of them.

Performing their duty based on an unjust law. This is no help whatsoever.

The law forbidding blood magic is more than just. If we can't trust the mages to abstain from this single school of magic, how can we be more lenient?
And yes, it is, in fact, a school of magic since certain spells like Mind Control can only be used through blood magic

And yet it could be saved, unless the templars are so spectacularly incompetent that there aren't four in the entire nation who could have helped the situation. Plus, the possibility of mages if they didn't abandon them.

You can't judge the competence of the Templars because they failed to drive back a surprise attack perpetrated by a small army of demons, abominations and blood mages. Had they entered to assist the mages, they would have been slaugthered and the demons could attack Ferelden.
They did the right thing in that situation, await for reinforcements.

Actually, they didn't. She turned on her templars.

Cullen is a templar and argues in favor of sparing mages and eventually clashes swords with Meredith herself.

Modifié par MisterJB, 28 juillet 2012 - 06:37 .

[Xilizhra]

In-universe, the Warden is capable of killing an Archdemon with a point stick. His accomplishments don't disprove the competence of others.

In-universe, that's done by an army backing the Warden up, along with several supporting characters and ballistae. Also, she grabs a huge sword from the ground and uses it to deal the archdemon killing blow.

Meredith is of the lowliest birth. She had no servants or armies. Her younger sister was possessed and killed over 70 people.
A peasant child without the sligthest training in magic was capable of causing that much damage. Abominations are incredibly dangerous, the games just fail to convey this because the protagonist kill hordes of them.

Well, when you're an abomination and thus terrifying to the superstitious, in addition to attacking a place that doesn't seem to have anyone who can fight, then yes, I could see one of the in-game normal abominations doing that. This is why you don't motivate mages to hide from everyone and thus ensure they can't be trained properly.

The law forbidding blood magic is more than just. If we can't trust the mages to abstain from this single school of magic, how can we be more lenient?
And yes, it is, in fact, a school of magic since certain spells like Mind Control can only be used through blood magic

Murdering them for doing so is wholly unjust. Some sort of regulation of the stuff is useful, but this goes much too far.

You can't judge the competence of the Templars because they failed to drive back a surprise attack perpetrated by a small army of demons, abominations and blood mages. Had they entered to assist the mages, they would have been slaugthered and the demons could attack Ferelden.

I can and I will. Driving back attacks like this is their job and primary reason for existing. Maybe the grand cleric is a moron and understaffed them, but if that's not the case, it seems far more likely to me that the templars just didn't want to risk their lives for any mages. And why should they? To the templar ethos, mages aren't people. In fact, I don't think we've ever seen a templar help or defend a mage in any game, except for Cullen's self-interest in opposing a lyrium-possessed lunatic.

Cullen is a templar and argues in favor of sparing mages and eventually clashes swords with Meredith herself.

He murders scores more mages who were only trying to protect themselves, and only turns on Meredith when she reveals herself to be both completely insane and possessed of an artifact of doom.

[WotanAnubis]

I believe that at the end of Dragon Age 3, the status quo should not be restored. Mages should not be put back into their Circles under the ever-watching eyes of the Templars/Chantry. If that does happen, not only will Dragon Age 3 have been meaningless (on that particular front anyway, who knows what other stories they want to tell), but Dragon Age 2 will become even more pointless. After all, Dragon Age 2 was all about how Hawke kicked off the Mage/Templar War and if said War turns out not mattering all that much, then, well, Dragon Age 2 didn't matter, now did it?

And yet... if one side does win, you'll run into the problem of having to make Dragon Age 4: Templar Edition and Dragon Age 4: Mage Edition (unless you set it in Tevinter, I guess, but that'd just be postponing the problem until Dragon Age 5, if ever they get that far).

So how to solve this?

Well, for one, you could not resolve the war (thus postponing the problem) and let the story focus more on, say, the potential collapse of the Orlesian Chantry (since both Mages and Templars broke away from it).

You could allow the player to join the losing side. That could make for some powerful storytelling - watching the side you're backing become ever more desperate, their struggle obviously hopeless. Will you, the PC, stick with the losers until the end or switch to the winning side?
Likewise, if you are on the winning side from the start, will you gleefully crush the enemy or try to persuade the fanatics to show a bit of mercy for the defeated foe?
If handled well, this way you could create a new status quo for Dragon Age 4 while still allowing the player to make some meaningful choices (though meaningful on a personal level, not a continental level).

And then, I suppose, there would be the negotiated peace ending. I believe I've heard the phrase "saving the world from itself" in regards to Dragon Age 3. So perhaps the player will be trying to bring the Mages and Templar to the negotiation table in order to prevent more slaughter. As the Warden tried to stop the Blight, so, too, might the DA3 protagonist be striving to bring peace back to Thedas. Like, say, A****aka from Princess Mononoke, they may still choose to work for either side in a desperate attempt to appease them or try to find some common ground. And so a tentative peace will be created between Mage and Templar; an ending that will allow for a single Dragon Age 4 while still rewarding your efforts.
Then again, like A****aka, you might be forced to watch one side destroy the other after all.

Or you could have Morrigan's God-Baby show up at the last second and offer the PC the choice between killing all mages everywhere simultaneously, mind-control all Templars into obeying you or turning everybody into a Mage.
...
No, wait, that would be incredibly stupid. Let's not do that. It would be a silly ending.

Modifié par WotanAnubis, 28 juillet 2012 - 07:57 .

[MisterJB]

In-universe, that's done by an army backing the Warden up, along with several supporting characters and ballistae. Also, she grabs a huge sword from the ground and uses it to deal the archdemon killing blow.

In-universe, the Warden can go alone, not call any army and not use the ballistae.
Fail to recruit the Legion of the Dead and at best you'll have Arl Eamon helping and he doesn't last long.
The Warden is exceptional by virtue of being the protagonist. Just because he can do something, it doesn't mean anyone could.

Well, when you're an abomination and thus terrifying to the superstitious, in addition to attacking a place that doesn't seem to have anyone who can fight, then yes, I could see one of the in-game normal abominations doing that. This is why you don't motivate mages to hide from everyone and thus ensure they can't be trained properly.

We're not discussing if the Circle's nature is to blame for the mages who hide.
We're discussing if abominations are ridiculously dangerous creatures and yes, they are. 

Murdering them for doing so is wholly unjust. Some sort of regulation of the stuff is useful, but this goes much too far.

Not, it isn't. Just like a templar who rapes a mage must be cast out from the Order, condemned to live the rest of his/her days in Lyrium-withdrawal, so must a mage caught practicing blood magic must be either slain on the spot or made Tranquil.
Both sides must be strict in what is forbidden and quick to punish.

I can and I will. Driving back attacks like this is their job and primary reason for existing.

So, the way you see it, if a police station is overrun by a small army of criminals, that just proves their incompetence as well as that of all police officers in the world.
Circunstances be damned.

 

Maybe the grand cleric is a moron and understaffed them, but if that's not the case, it seems far more likely to me that the templars just didn't want to risk their lives for any mages. And why should they? To the templar ethos, mages aren't people.

To some templars, not all. And certainly not in the Circle of Ferelden under Gregoir.
They had good reasons to believe all mages inside were already dead and weren't willing to risk the demons escaping into Ferelden.

 

In fact, I don't think we've ever seen a templar help or defend a mage in any game, except for Cullen's self-interest in opposing a lyrium-possessed lunatic.

Thrask.
Carver's namesake.
Ser Evangeline
Reiner.
Cullen when he protected those three mages because they hadn't used blood magic.
Gregoir when he took the side of the First Enchanter over that of Cullen.
I could probrably found more if I searched the codex carefully enough.

He murders scores more mages who were only trying to protect themselves, and only turns on Meredith when she reveals herself to be both completely insane and possessed of an artifact of doom.

Those mages used blood magic. It is true they were backed into a corner by Meredith but Cullen has shown that he is not going to execute mages who have shown no sign of corruption in cold blood.

Modifié par MisterJB, 28 juillet 2012 - 07:20 .

[Xilizhra]

In-universe, the Warden can go alone, not call any army and not use the ballistae.
Fail to recruit the Legion of the Dead and at best you'll have Arl Eamon helping and he doesn't last long.
The Warden is exceptional by virtue of being the protagonist. Just because he can do something, it doesn't mean anyone could.

This isn't supported by in-game quotes, whereas the mage timeline is. Wynne mentions how it's been about a year since they left the Circle; since the game only lasts around a year, it follows that the Circle took place at the beginning of the quest canonically.

We're not discussing if the Circle's nature is to blame for the mages who hide.
We're discussing if abominations are ridiculously dangerous creatures and yes, they are.

A drake could also easily kill seventy people, maybe more. As could a bereskarn. Or an emissary. Abominations are dangerous, but not "ridiculously" dangerous in the context of the world.

Not, it isn't. Just like a templar who rapes a mage must be cast out from the Order, condemned to live the rest of his/her days in Lyrium-withdrawal, so must a mage caught practicing blood magic must be either slain on the spot or made Tranquil.
Both sides must be strict in what is forbidden and quick to punish.

It's funny because the one that actually hurt someone has a much less severe punishment.

To some templars, not all. And certainly not in the Circle of Ferelden under Gregoir.
They had good reasons to believe all mages inside were already dead and weren't willing to risk the demons escaping into Ferelden.

Good reason... like the bunch of mages hanging out right near the entrance? Three mages were able to hold back the demonic tide long enough to set that barrier up, which could have been a lot of help had any of the templars taken a peek inside? No wonder they can never find apostates...

Thrask.
Carver's namesake.
Ser Evangeline
Reiner.
Cullen when he protected those three mages because they hadn't used blood magic.
Gregoir when he took the side of the First Enchanter over that of Cullen.
I could probrably found more if I searched the codex carefully enough.

Thrask left the templars, Maurevar wasn't seen, Evangeline wasn't in a game, Cullen deserves no credit whatsoever for being mildly less murderous in the case of three people, Greagoir was reasserting his own authority...

Those mages used blood magic. It is true they were backed into a corner by Meredith but Cullen has shown that he is not going to execute mages who have shown no sign of corruption in cold blood.

Cullen is a self-righteous bastard who deserves no respect.

[Vox Draco]

WotanAnubis wrote...

I believe that at the end of Dragon Age 3, the status quo should not be restored. Mages should not be put back into their Circles under the ever-watching eyes of the Templars/Chantry. If that does happen, not only will Dragon Age 3 have been meaningless (on that particular front anyway, who knows what other stories they want to tell), but Dragon Age 2 will become even more pointless. After all, Dragon Age 2 was all about how Hawke kicked off the Mage/Templar War and if said War turns not mattering all that much, then, well, Dragon Age 2 didn't matter, now did it?

And yet... if one side does win, you'll run into the problem of having to make Dragon Age 4: Templar Edition and Dragon Age 4: Mage Edition (unless you set it in Tevinter, I guess, but that'd just be postponing the problem until Dragon Age 5, if ever they get that far).

So how to solve this?

Well, for one, you could not resolve the war (thus postponing the problem) and let the story focus more on, say, the potential collapse of the Orlesian Chantry (since both Mages and Templars broke away from it).

You could allow the player to join the losing side. That could make for some powerful storytelling - watching the side you're backing become ever more desperate, their struggle obviously hopeful. Will you, the PC, stick with the losers until the end or switch to the winning side?
Likewise, if you are on the winning side from the start, will you gleefully crush the enemy or try to persuade the fanatics to show a bit of mercy for the defeated foe?
If handled well, this way you could create a new status quo for Dragon Age 4 while still allowing the player to make some meaningful choices (though meaningful on a personal level, not a continental level).

And then, I suppose, there would be the negotiated peace ending. I believe I've heard the phrase "saving the world from itself" in regards to Dragon Age 3. So perhaps the player will be trying to bring the Mages and Templar to the negotiation table in order to prevent more slaughter. As the Warden tried to stop the Blight, so, too, might the DA3 protagonist be striving to bring peace back to Thedas. Like, say, A****aka from Princess Mononoke, they may still choose to work for either side in a desperate attempt to appease them or try to find some common ground. And so a tentative peace will be created between Mage and Templar; an ending that will allow for a single Dragon Age 4 while still rewarding your efforts.
Then again, like A****aka, you might be forced to watch one side destroy the other after all..

I like that, really...most of it at least. I also can hardly think of DA3-outcomes that fundamentally change the world of Tedas. If there is a war Mages/Templars, my guess if we see a DA4 anytime it might start a little like this:

DA4: "200 years ago the hero of Orlais ended the Great War against Magic, and the mages got crushed by the power of the Templars and the hero. And for many years after the mages were put to chains once more...but what had been set in motion could not be undone by the cruel weapons if the Templars. The call for freedom and equality could not be silenced...and over the years slowly, but steadily the mages were granted some more freedom, more rights, and the Great Council of Mages was established..."

or

DA4: "200 years ago the hero of Orlais sided with the mages and ended the Great War against Magic, and Thedas entered a new age of understanding the ways of magic. At the summit of Denerim the Great Council of Mages was founded, and new laws as well as rights were established to both regulate the use of magic and preserve the freedom of the mages. Ever since Thedas has prospered and peace was ensured...though the voices that warned of the evil of mages never silenced completly...."

WotanAnubis wrote...

Or you could have Morrigan's God-Baby show up at the last second and offer the PC the choice between killing all mages everywhere simultaneously, mind-control all Templars into obeying you or turning everybody into a Mage.
...
No, wait, that would be incredibly stupid. Let's not do that. It would be a silly ending.

This is not funny! Just imagine someone from Bioware reads this and considers it to be a great plot-twist or awesome storytelling! ... How many franchises can Bioware ruin before...ah anyway....

At least, and I am playing a little devil's advocate here, at least the Morrigan-God-Child doesn't pop up out of nowhere, it would have been properly foreshadowed in DAO and has a basis in the lore...the Mass Effect Starchild cannot claim anything like this...it is just stupid as stupid can be...damn, and here I thought I could get over this stupidity by posting in the other forums....

[MisterJB]

This isn't supported by in-game quotes, whereas the mage timeline is. Wynne mentions how it's been about a year since they left the Circle; since the game only lasts around a year, it follows that the Circle took place at the beginning of the quest canonically.

And your point is? The Warden was always exceptional.

A drake could also easily kill seventy people, maybe more. As could a bereskarn. Or an emissary. Abominations are dangerous, but not "ridiculously" dangerous in the context of the world.

Drakes and bereskarns are animals. Animals can be dangerous but when was the last time an animal actualy managed to kill seventy people?
Abominations join the cunning and magical abilities of a demon with that of a mage. The Baroness was able to kill an High Dragon. They are, after the Archdemon and some particularly powerful Darkspawn who are rarely seen outside of a Blight, the most dangerous creatures in Thedas.

It's funny because the one that actually hurt someone has a much less severe punishment.

Blood magic is much more dangerous and destructive than a single violation.
Also, you should read the reports of  people who overcame their addiction to drugs. Some would claim there was a point they wish they would die. But, unlike our real world drugs, you can't even burn lyrium out of your system.

Good reason... like the bunch of mages hanging out right near the entrance? Three mages were able to hold back the demonic tide long enough to set that barrier up, which could have been a lot of help had any of the templars taken a peek inside? No wonder they can never find apostates...

Good reasons like the horde of demons they saw and the immense number of bodies laying in the floor of the tower. That group of mages only survived due to the sheer luck that a Spirit of Faith decided to help Wynne.
The Templars couldn't know that.

Thrask left the templars, Maurevar wasn't seen, Evangeline wasn't in a game,

They are all templars and their actions are all canonical.

Cullen deserves no credit whatsoever for being mildly less murderous in the case of three people,

Cullen deserves credit for understanding that not all mages must pay for the actions of some.

Greagoir was reasserting his own authority...

Greagoir was being reasonable and merciful.

Cullen is a self-righteous bastard who deserves no respect.

Cullen is an unfortunate man who has now seen the worst both sides have to offer. He has proven to be capable of reason and mercy and I'm curious to see where his story will lead.

[Xilizhra]

And your point is? The Warden was always exceptional.

By what margin? How is it measured? What exactly is the skill comparison between her and the others?

Drakes and bereskarns are animals. Animals can be dangerous but when was the last time an animal actualy managed to kill seventy people?

High dragons can kill far more than that. And we've never actually seen either one dropped into the middle of a town before.

Abominations join the cunning and magical abilities of a demon with that of a mage. The Baroness was able to kill an High Dragon. They are, after the Archdemon and some particularly powerful Darkspawn who are rarely seen outside of a Blight, the most dangerous creatures in Thedas.

Some extremely powerful demons and/or those who are able to secure a willing alliance with a mage can be that dangerous, yes. The others are, well, tough but not an insuperable threat by any means, as seen in the games. Most demons simply aren't that strong.

Blood magic is much more dangerous and destructive than a single violation.

Perhaps, if it's used for such a purpose. Was there any proof of this? Was there in fact any proof of said occurrence even happening?

As for the rest, I'll concede enough that the templars might occasionally still have a shadow of usefulness, although I still detest Cullen. He's still a murderous self-righteous bastard; of course, everyone is redeemable, and he may yet become redeemed, but I'd have no objection to killing him in DA2 were it possible.
Also, Greagoir physically abuses pregnant women.

[The Hierophant]

Xilizhra wrote...

Also, Greagoir physically abuses pregnant women.

Woah hold up, when the heck did he do this?

[MisterJB]

By what margin? How is it measured? What exactly is the skill comparison between her and the others?

Let's see, a single Revenant is known to have killed entire units of templars. The Warden can defeat Revenants single handedly.
Hurlocks are described as being able to fighting several opponents at once but the Warden also crushes them like flies.

High dragons can kill far more than that. And we've never actually seen either one dropped into the middle of a town before.

High Dragons are something else entirely.

Some extremely powerful demons and/or those who are able to secure a willing alliance with a mage can be that dangerous, yes. The others are, well, tough but not an insuperable threat by any means, as seen in the games. Most demons simply aren't that strong.

You mean that most demons simply aren't that strong compared to the protagonist.

Perhaps, if it's used for such a purpose. Was there any proof of this? Was there in fact any proof of said occurrence even happening?

It's an historical fact recorded in the Codex that happened centuries ago.
Obviously, I can't provide you with eye witnesses now.

everyone is redeemable, and he may yet become redeemed,

Cullen has done nothing that requires redemption. 

Also, Greagoir physically abuses pregnant women.

That was decades ago. People change with time.

[MisterJB]

The Hierophant wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Also, Greagoir physically abuses pregnant women.

Woah hold up, when the heck did he do this?

http://dragonage.wik...ragon_Age_Comic

He slapped a mage that was impregnated by a templar(their copulation wasn't forced, BTW). But that was decades ago and people can change with time.

Modifié par MisterJB, 28 juillet 2012 - 08:55 .

[Dintonta]

If, in the end, magic returns massively to the world --as Sandal prophecized-- and everybody turns to become a wizard like the elves of ancient Arlathan, what do you think the most extremist of the templars will do, commit suicide?

Modifié par Dintonta, 28 juillet 2012 - 09:18 .

[Dave of Canada]

Massive death and riots will plague Thedas, entire villages and cities will be wiped out as entire groups of people wouldn't be able to control their abilities and set everything aflame / go abomination and then everyone would approach the Circles and demand an education.

Which the Circles wouldn't give out openly, they'd take control and rule over the people as they'd become a necessary resource. Templar would probably still exist as their anti-magic capabilities would come in useful against renegades and abominations, though they'd be shackled to the Circle similar to how Tevinter handles it.

[The Hierophant]

Dintonta wrote...

If, in the end, magic returns massively to the world --as Sandal prophecized-- and everybody turns to become a wizard like the elves of ancient Arlathan, what do you think the most extremist of the templars will do, commit suicide?

Imho, this would make future DA games lame. It would take away the uniqueness of having magical abilities, and completely destroy any semblance of diversity the DA world had. Thedas would probably turn into a giant Tevinter Imperium.

@MJB It looks like Greagoir mellowed out over the years, but Gleam's father is an a-hole.

Modifié par The Hierophant, 28 juillet 2012 - 09:37 .

[Dintonta]

(Heavy sigh) ...And to think I was actually believing it would be only flowers and rainbows for everybody... (scratch that idea... damn you Sandal!)

[Huntress]

MisterJB wrote...

Yes.

No.

They slaughtered eighteen Circles, then left the Chantry so they could kill more. Among other things.

Eigtheen Circle annulated over the course of centuries and only after the tower had been overrun by Abominations and Maleficarum.
Yes, how awful of them.

Hmm and yet only 1 chantry building have been destroy in that same time line but not one care to talk about that... really i mean how many of us will live in a peaceful state of mind in a  circle of magi while friends and loved ones are been turned into tranquils or raped because of the templars Capricious moods?
Think for a sec about someone you care about and this person being raped every night and neither you or her/him able to stop the abuses.

Thats exactly what Anders suffered for the IF  you didn't know.

OP I agree with you aswell, even tho templars have to be  taught a very good and painful lesson of how little power they really have when compared to a mage who is born with the power to use it at any given moment for good or ill.

No I do not wish the Chantry or Andrastian religion to be destroyed... not before someone comes up with a new god anyway.

Modifié par Huntress, 28 juillet 2012 - 09:56 .

[MisterJB]

One Chantry building, yes. And how many millions of people have suffered because of magic?
Tevinter, abominations, blood mages.

Kirkwall was the worst circle in Thedas. Mages are not routinelly raped or turned into Tranquils in other areas of the world.
The mages of Ferelden have it good. They have shelter, food, clothes, security, education. All they lack is freedom.
Anders, that little terrorist, escaped seven times and was brough back each time. In Kirkwall, he would have been run through on the first attempt.

"taught a very good and painful lesson of how little power they really have when compared to a mage who is born with the power to use it at any given moment for good or ill."

Attitudes like this are what leads to people fearing mages and wanting to see them contained.

Modifié par MisterJB, 28 juillet 2012 - 10:05 .

[Huntress]

Dintonta wrote...

If, in the end, magic returns massively to the world --as Sandal prophecized-- and everybody turns to become a wizard like the elves of ancient Arlathan, what do you think the most extremist of the templars will do, commit suicide?

Hmm that sounds good!!!  kidding! No they won't kill themselves lol! They probably make a cult and wage wars.. wait a sec they already have one! hehe my bad.

Seriously the mages do need to study magic in more deeply ways to find a way to put a stop to the demonic possessions of course one solution is everyone drinking darkspawn blood but I don't think every mage will want to drink that just for the good of the chantry.
Any way giving this type of power to the mages is dangerous aswell.. many will want find a cure but many others will want to do exactly what the tevinters mages did 900 years ago... is true the damage was done 900 years ago but.. who knows what lies in the fade and is waiting for the Mages.