194 réponses à ce sujet

[TEWR]

MisterJB wrote...

The Qunari cultures does have its appeals but I do agree their treatment of mages goes beyond caution.
Or do you mean to imply the Circle systems is based on a warped sense of caring?

I meant to say that I find the Qunari method to be based on a warped sense of caring, which makes it not as bad as what the Chantry does. It's bad certainly and I don't want it done, but I can at least defend it because the Qunari themselves don't have the same abuse of Mages that the Chantry controlled Circles do.

It's my personal interpretation and most posters disagree with it, finding what they do to be simply an abhorrent crime.

And maybe it is. But I've seen nothing really to indicate it being just that and I do believe my interpretation is right. It's abhorrent certainly, but I wouldn't say that's all it is. I'd say that what they do stems from a deeper level of emotions and feelings and whatnot.

Not of hatred, but of respect and caring.

EDIT: fixed some grammar issues and clarified a bit more.

MisterJB wrote...

I agree that mages should be barred from political power but, would mundanes be able to stop them if mages are given more freedoms? They are born with a very real power.

If the Templar Order is sufficiently reformed -- and depending on what happens with the whole "More mages being born" schtick -- then yes, the Mages could easily be stopped by mundanes.

Having more freedoms doesn't mean a new Imperium will automatically rise. That's a possibility, but it'd take a crapton of mages to pull it off or a select few being very good at what they do and able to remain hidden from notice.

Which... isn't easily done.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 31 juillet 2012 - 06:45 .

[MisterJB]

Xilizhra wrote...
They're all templars, some with different interpretations of their duty. All of them must be stopped, though some perhaps less fatally than others.

You are seriously pilling together Thrask with Elrik, the guy that believed mages and templars must work together against demons with the guy who wanted to turn all mages into sex toys.
You are being as unresonable as you accuse templars of being.

[MisterJB]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
I meant to say that I find the Qunari method to be based on a warped sense of caring, which makes it not as bad as what the Chantry does.

It's my personal interpretation and most posters disagree with it, finding what they do to be simply an abhorrent crime.

And maybe it is. But I've seen nothing really to indicate it being just that but I do believe my interpretation is right. It's abhorrent certainly, but I wouldn't say that's all it is. I'd say that what they do stems from a deeper level of emotions and feelings and whatnot.

Not of hatred, but of respect and caring.

One could argue the same applies to the Chantry. Even people like Meredith have shown great sadness for the pligth of the mages, truly believing them to be cursed and act to contain that curse out of caring for the lives of the common people.

[Xilizhra]

MisterJB wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
They're all templars, some with different interpretations of their duty. All of them must be stopped, though some perhaps less fatally than others.

You are seriously pilling together Thrask with Elrik, the guy that believed mages and templars must work together against demons with the guy who wanted to turn all mages into sex toys.
You are being as unresonable as you accuse templars of being.

Just like Arl Howe's two soldiers, Niceguy McPunchclock and Dickcheese O'Rapeface wound up in the same pile of corpses. While I personally consider Thrask an ex-templar and doubt he would be an enemy of the mages, if he's an enemy, then he's an enemy. I'll accept surrenders and won't outright kill those too wounded to fight; outside of those provisions, they die.

[brushyourteeth]

MisterJB wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
They're all templars, some with different interpretations of their duty. All of them must be stopped, though some perhaps less fatally than others.

You are seriously pilling together Thrask with Elrik, the guy that believed mages and templars must work together against demons with the guy who wanted to turn all mages into sex toys.
You are being as unresonable as you accuse templars of being.

This. Sorry, Xilizhra - you're not the only one to see the Chantry as an evil to be completely annihilated, but the truth is that both sides have their flaws. The underlined is what both sides ought to be working towards, with Templars and mages there to police each other.

[Xilizhra]

You have it slightly off. I see the Templar Order as that, not the Chantry. The Order has defected from the Chantry so that they can pull of their genocide plans without interference.

[brushyourteeth]

Xilizhra wrote...

You have it slightly off. I see the Templar Order as that, not the Chantry. The Order has defected from the Chantry so that they can pull of their genocide plans without interference.

I respect that POV. I'm actually really excited to see how the Justina-loyal Chantry responds to the broken-away Seekers and Templars, and whether the mages would even be interested in allying themselves with them. I wouldn't trust a Templar (besides obviously Evangeline) as far as I could throw them, were I one of the mages.

[Face of Evil]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I meant to say that I find the Qunari method to be based on a warped sense of caring, which makes it not as bad as what the Chantry does. It's bad certainly and I don't want it done, but I can at least defend it because the Qunari themselves don't have the same abuse of Mages that the Chantry controlled Circles do.

There is abuse — there always is when one group of people has power over another — but it pales in comparison to the qunari's methods.

I don't see how the qunari can be viewed as "caring" for their mages. They might honour the saarebas to an extent, but they still treat them like animals.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 31 juillet 2012 - 07:16 .

[Silfren]

I definitely want the opportunity for one side to gain victory over the other. I would prefer a solution that creates balance rather than chaos, but I do NOT want that option to require a restoration of the previous status quo. My heroines always fight in favor of mage freedom, so I would like the opportunity for that end-game option in DA3. Of course, if there's an option that leads to mage freedom but plunges the world into a chaotic state to do so, I'll take that too, just not as my preferred outcome.

[Fallstar]

MisterJB wrote...

One could argue the same applies to the Chantry. Even people like Meredith have shown great sadness for the pligth of the mages, truly believing them to be cursed and act to contain that curse out of caring for the lives of the common people.

The problem is that magic is viewed as a curse. Which is understandable given the fear most non mages have for mages due to lies spread by the chantry (The mages caused the blights! No just ignore the dwarves, it's not like their knowledge of the darkspawn is orders of magnitude greater than our own or anything). 

When "the magic comes back, all of it" as foreshadowed by Sandal, hopefully people will realize they've had the wool pulled over their eyes and will start treating magic and mages in a sensible manner, instead of what is basically a knee jerk reaction. 

Just like when the Wardens were exiled from Ferelden and the common people feared them and their 'unnatural' powers due to lies spread by that Lord, (Arland?) eventually the truth will become widely known.

[Josielyn]

I do want the option to negotiate a balance between the 2 sides, maybe the death of some innocent martyr character could be used to bring it all about, but if I have to pick one over the other, I would choose the mage side, have them win the victory for their own freedom, but then fail miserably to control their own brethren, and then have the magically resistant and now converted to Andrastean religion Dwarves come topside to kick "a**" to restore order, then the Dwarves control the lyrium trade, and oh by the way the Dwarves have a new paragon who invented a helmet that prevents blood mage mind control from being effective on the wearer and also prevents mages from getting possessed by demons (alternative to Tranquility Rite). But they do allow the Chantry to remain in existence provided the Grand Cleric becomes a Grand Trinity of 3, 1 representative selected from among all 3 races. In fact they decide to lead a crusade against the Q'unari once they have all Ferelden/Orlais united under the Maker's banner.

[SeptimusMagistos]

I want a clear mage victory.

The Templars can become a group that protects mages from angry mobs and imprisons mages after (not before) they commit a crime. Or they can be dead. Their choice.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

I think the mages need laws so magic won't be abused, but they should not be persecuted just because they are able to use magic, they should have the same rights and freedoms as everyone else.

[EricHVela]

Tranquilize everyone, non-mages included. It's like Synthesis. Everyone won't know that they're supposed to be unhappy (or happy for that matter).

Just disconnect the entire world from the Fade. Problem solved.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

if you want synthesis in Dragon Age everyone would have to meld with everything in the fade.

[ananna21]

Status quo YEESH. These things Always mean some people being victim of the necessary cruelty to keep the status quo going. Things going to the way they were before for everyone would also mean that orlas goes back to nobles having the rite force themselves on peasant women. The Let the countries themselves decide how to deal with mages as their people are the ones most at risk with local mages.

[Big I]

Keep the Circles, but restrict the templars - no more torture, Tranquility, sexual abuse or Annulment.


If I had to choose one or the other I'd choose the mages.

[Eire Icon]

I don't believe the sqtatus quo can be restored nor would I want it to be. Thedas needs to go to war !!

[DKJaigen]

ReggarBlane wrote...

Tranquilize everyone, non-mages included. It's like Synthesis. Everyone won't know that they're supposed to be unhappy (or happy for that matter).

Just disconnect the entire world from the Fade. Problem solved.

The darkspawn really dont care when the next blight hits. The problem is that the mages no matter what must live on for live to flourish on thedas.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Forgive me it is late and I haven't read this hold thread.

I think there needs to be a compromise. I think the circles do need to still exist as schools, where those born as mages do need training. Mages will always be born. Even Anders wonders at Velanna and a Mage Hawks and he is quick to jump down Merrill's throat.

Once a mage passes their harrowing, then they should be able to return to their families or be employed by the state or nobility to offer their services and make a living and be productive members of society. With a Templar checking up on them a few times a year. Both the circles and templars are necessary. In case a mage does fall to the temptation of a demon than Templars do need to be on the scene to take the situation in hand. A Senior Enchanter of the Circle such as Irving and A Knight Commander must agree before a Mage is made tranquil. Or their needs to be agreement between the Templars higher up and someone like Fiona to help in the decision process before making a mage tranquil.

I think the Templars should govern themselves outside of the Chantry like they did hundreds of years ago. I think the Templars and Mages should work in unison with each other and kick the Chantry out from between them.

Likewise Wardens need mages to fight the darkspawn. Wardens also need Templars like Alistair's storyline shows. A templar is able to function without lyrium and still do his/her duty if they were never given lyrium to begin with like Alistair because he hadn't take his final vows before being recruited into the Wardens.

I believe somewhere along the way the Chantry was corrupted. I also see the Black Divine's hand in alot of what is going on now.

I say compromise, there will always be problems regardless of what happens or decision is made. I also agree with the hypothectial upcoming game the situation needs to be resolved this game if they wish to make any more titles to this franchise. Because the templar/mage war is going to get old really quick inbetween the length of each game. It already is old. So yes, it does need to be resolved and no I don't want to see it pushed on a back burner with a Trevinter or Qunari invasion.