80 réponses à ce sujet

[brushyourteeth]

Please read all before responding.  

R2's Muse recently brought this fan essay to our attention over at the Cullen fan thread, and it really got me thinking.

We've had many discussions about the dangers of magic, the morality of using blood magic, and the wisdom in communicating with demons or fade spirits. We're probably never going to all agree on these issues, even if the devs tell us straight-up how it is, and for the purpose of this topic that's totally ok - that's not what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about the tearing of the Fade.

We know that the Fade becomes thin and weakened (sometimes even ripping open) in places where great amounts of mortal suffering take place. Places like the Brecilian Forest, Sundermount, or the Denerim Alienage orphanage. It also happens in places like Kirkwall, which was a slave hub and ***SPOILER*** near the place where one of the original darkspawn is being held captive. And in Soldier's Peak, where blood magic was used to deliberately open portals into the Fade.

When the Chantry talks about fearing and controlling mages, they're not really talking about the fear of mages themselves. They're not even afraid of magical power - they're afraid of demons. You never hear a Templar say "It's not fair that you can shoot fire out of your fingers and I can't." Instead they say things like "One must always be vigilant of demonic posession. One abomination can easily kill 15 of my brethren if a mage is not in control." The Chantry likely wouldn't care that mages can access the Fade if it weren't the place where demons live, and the fact that demon+mage= dangerous and hard to reason with. In fact I'll risk making someone mad by saying that demons escaping into the world=dangerous. It'd be chaos. They have their own agenda and not ours at heart. The Chantry's at least right about that.

But the most typical places to find the Veil thinning are places of magical study and a high concentration of magical talent. Places like the mage Circles.

So why, in the name of all that's intelligent, did the Chantry decide it was a good idea to lock a bunch of mages up together? I completely understand the idea of letting them live in community together where they have some kind of oversight. But here's the thing - the Veil weakens with every passing year around each Circle location. Each one! According to the DA wiki, there are 16 that we know about, not even adding in the number of places we've encountered that have a weakened Veil.  Let's not forget that one wackjob like Uldred who learns blood magic has the ability to dominate minds and introduce demons into other mages, causing exponentially more mage suffering because he's essentially caged up with other mages.

And the thing is, the Chantry understands this danger. They actually choose to house known blood mages and their supporters in the mage prison Aeonar, which has a very thin Veil because it was once the site of Tevinter experimentation. And they do this because they want their prisoners to be exposed to demons until they can no longer resist and then be cut down by Templars. That's their punishment. And let's not forget that mortal suffering = weakened Veil. Mage suffering = even more weakened Veil. With each passing year the Veil around Aeonar, which is already so thin that demons travel through it quite freely, becomes even thinner.

It seems to me that the real danger that mages pose isn't in their potential ability to dominate minds through blood magic or the risk of their become abominations - it's that in their very existence, and in especially their suffering (which is perpetuated by the Chantry) - they may accidentally tear open the Veil for good, exposing the world to demonic opposition. Every political skirmish between factions and nations in Thedas (except for perhaps another Blight) would pale in comparison to this threat.

The author, Bell, goes to on to say that she thinks that something must have gone fundamentally wrong with magic, which was originally a beautiful gift, and that Sandal's prophecy indicates a time when things will be put right and possibly everyone will have magic.

My questions:

- What are the chances that the Veil could tear wide open and change the conflict from mage v. templar into mortals and benign spirits vs. demons? What would a Thedas after this kind of confrontation look like physically and politically?

- How aware of this threat is the Divine and what can be done about it?

- What would a campaign to actively relieve mage suffering and avoid large concentrations of mages look like?

Please bear in mind that this isn't a discussion of whether blood magic is bad, whether demons are bad, whether all fade spirits are bad, whether demons should even be called demons, or whether the Chantry lies about everything.
It's annoying and belongs in a different thread.

Opinions!  Go!

Modifié par brushyourteeth, 27 juillet 2012 - 08:41 .

[LobselVith8]

I'm not sure what the chances are that the Veil could be torn wide open, but Morrigan does admit to The Warden that "change is coming," so perhaps she knows that something will transpire to cause a fundamental change in Thedas (such as Sandal's prophecy that the magic is returning), or maybe she will play a role in such change (possibly with the aid of her son). Perhaps this event will change some of the conflicts that will be going on.

As for Divine Justina V, it's likely that she is too focused on the schism between mages and templars to be aware of this potential threat.

[LolaLei]

I'm hoping that the Mage/Templar rebellion will be a bit of a decoy for the real threat like the veil completely tearing open. I mean, everyone in Thedas is going to be so busy fighting amongst themselves that they won't realise the danger occurring until its too late.

[Dintonta]

I didn't knew about the Veil becoming thin around heavy concentrations of mages : I was thinking that only specific rituals, abundant death and suffering would provoke such event...

[R2s Muse]

brushyourteeth wrote...

- What are the chances that the Veil could tear wide open and change the conflict from mage v. templar into mortals and benign spirits vs. demons? What would a Thedas after this kind of confrontation look like physically and politically?

This is something I've also been thinking about, not that I have any good answers. I think that, as a plot device, shutting down mage-templar hostilities because of a massive interdimensional rip is brilliant. The mages and templars go all "enemy of my enemy..." and have to fight side by side against the real threat. Plus, it makes the story a bit more interesting than just a war story.

From a lore point of view, I keep coming back to what Yavana, the witch of the wilds said in the Silent Grove comics. Warning ** a little spoilery **

She talks about something ancient, saying "It sings of a time when dragons ruled the skies. A time before the veil, before the mysteries were forgotten." So, before the veil, meaning when there was no separation between the real world and the Fade? Or, when there was only the Fade? According to the Chantry, the Maker made the Fade and its inhabitants, his first children, first, and then humans and the real world later. In another part of the Chant, Silence 3:6, Dissonant Verse, it calls the Old Gods the first of the Maker's children. So, are the original, Old God dragons the ones of which she speaks, who lived in a Fade-only Thedas? And, are we headed there again?  Finally, could this be the time Sandal spoke of, when the magic comes back?

Dunno, but tantalizing.

- How aware of this threat is the Divine and what can be done about it?

Probably not... but who knows what her ultimate motivations are for suddenly becoming pro-mage. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to look at the Aeonar situation and scratch  your head.

- What would a campaign to actively relieve mage suffering and avoid large concentrations of mages look like?

Hmm, I ultimately would like to see the end of the mage-templar war result in revisiting the Circle system from the ground up, so a possible solution could be, at the very least, decentralization of the mage population that allows for their protection but not imprisonment. Something that let's them reintegrate with society, but with templars nearby to serve and protect. I think that's a bigger topic, tho...

Modifié par R2s Muse, 27 juillet 2012 - 08:45 .

[the_one_54321]

As usual, the Qunari have it all stoically figured out. Do what they do.

[GavrielKay]

I hope they plan to go in the common enemy direction somehow. Unless they announced that DA3 would be the final installment, it would be hard to allow players to choose either side of the mage vs. Templar war. So, a possible way to bring things together is to have something like a Qunari invasion or catastrophic veil tear - anything that would require them to put their differences aside and fight a larger threat.

[LolaLei]

the_one_54321 wrote...

As usual, the Qunari have it all stoically figured out. Do what they do.

Like stitch their mouths up? ... Well I suppose it would shut Anders up for 5 minutes lol.

[Emzamination]

Kill em all an let the maker sort em out, Maker be praised.

[the_one_54321]

LolaLei wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

As usual, the Qunari have it all stoically figured out. Do what they do.

Like stitch their mouths up? ... Well I suppose it would shut Anders up for 5 minutes lol.

That or immediately kill them once magic ability is discovered. But that wouldn't be fair. As Sten said, even as aflicted as they are they still must do their part to serve the Qunari.

[dragonflight288]

Let's not forget that one wackjob like Uldred who learns blood magic has the ability to dominate minds and introduce demons into other mages, causing exponentially more mage suffering because he's essentially caged up with other mages.

Not disagreeing with the rest of your argument, but this statement needs correcting. If you talk to Niall and question him about it in the Fade, he talks about how Uldred practiced demonology and after he started his rebellion to take over the Circle, he summoned demons to unleash on the templars (and other mages) in a similar fashion to what Avernus did. But he was overwhelmed and possessed. And the abomination that Uldred became started putting demons into the others.

He was an abomination before we even showed up, not just a blood mage who forced demons into others.

[Blacklash93]

I am not sure if mages themselves automatically strain the veil just by presence. It could be the frequent practice of magic in an area that does it, which the Circle permits to help mages fight demonic possession and use them as war assets when the time comes.

But really, making an entire army dedicated to confining and oppressing mages that will inevitably lead to an all-out rebellion only makes the concept of the Circle as it is more flawed. Mass death and use of magic can make the veil incredibly thin where we get things like the Brecilian forest and ancient Tevinter sites. What would happen if such a conflict spanned all of Thedas?

Modifié par Blacklash93, 28 juillet 2012 - 10:13 .

[R2s Muse]

Something brush didn't include in her original post was that I ran across this essay because Mary Kirby gave it a shoutout on twitter, calling it "an interesting analysis of the Veil." Hmmm...

[dragonflight288]

Blacklash93 wrote...

I am not sure if mages themselves automatically strain the veil just by presence. It could be the frequent practice of magic in an area that does it, which the Circle permits to help mages fight demonic possession and use them as war assets when the time comes.

But really, making an entire army dedicated to confining and oppressing mages that will inevitably lead to an all-out rebellion only makes the concept of the Circle as it is more flawed. Mass death and use of magic can make the veil incredibly thin where we get things like the Brecilian forest and ancient Tevinter sites. What would happen if such a conflict spanned all of Thedas?

Mages by themselves aren't a strain on the veil. Concentrated magic over a period of time, however, is.

[R2s Muse]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

I am not sure if mages themselves automatically strain the veil just by presence. It could be the frequent practice of magic in an area that does it, which the Circle permits to help mages fight demonic possession and use them as war assets when the time comes.

But really, making an entire army dedicated to confining and oppressing mages that will inevitably lead to an all-out rebellion only makes the concept of the Circle as it is more flawed. Mass death and use of magic can make the veil incredibly thin where we get things like the Brecilian forest and ancient Tevinter sites. What would happen if such a conflict spanned all of Thedas?

Mages by themselves aren't a strain on the veil. Concentrated magic over a period of time, however, is.

Right, all good points. But, I think expecting that mages in a Circle not to do magic is an unlikely scenario, especially if the goal is to train them in the proper use of that magic. That said, I did always get the feeling that it had to be a bit  more catastrophic than just doing a  healing spell or a thousand to rip the Veil.

It would be SO interesting if it spanned all of Thedas, tho. Veil rips popping up every which where, meaning you fight demons everywhere you go... which is ... so different from what we do... now. Hmm...

[Dave of Canada]

Alright, I'll start this post noting that not one person in Thedas probably knows all of this completely except for possibly Flemeth. Mostly speculation but it's based heavily on things presented in-game and out.

The Veil is a recent creation, it didn't exist in the past. It's total destruction wouldn't destroy the world, though it brings up the question... who created it? When and why?

Simply examining quotes from various sources and you'll discover something about the people which existed before, possibly even before the Veil. References to Arlathan mention how elves used to all have the gift of magic and it faded over time, Sandal's prophecy mentions how the magic will "return" and everybody will be like they were and the Nexus Golem mentions everybody used to be more than they are.

Which paints the picture that in ancient times, everybody used to be mages. So non-mages are actually the anomaly here, created by an outside influence--possibly the Veil itself, shedding little light onto the great mystery that happens to be the Veil.

Examining Sandal's quote:
Sandal: One day the magic will come back. All of it. Everyone will be just like they were. The shadows will part, and the skies will open wide. 

"The shadows will part, and the skies will open wide".
Could the shadows be the Veil? Rexamining the picture from Silent Grove:


Notice how the skies are swirling, entirely different than current Thedosian skies. Could this be the skies opening wide?

In addition to all of this, it's been noted by people around Kirkwall that mages are growing more prominent in recent years and the Circles are a lot more brimming than they used to be less than a generation ago. What's changed lately? Dragons.

Dragons were long-thought extinct, yet Silent Grove establishes that they were hibernating and they've only woken up because of Flemeth / her daughters and Maric. With the recent awakening of dragons, it coincides with the population boost of mages all too well and hints that the return of dragons might bring about a return to ancient ways.

This ties in with Sandal's prophecy because it only occurs if you've done the Dark Ritual--perserving the soul of an Old God, a dragon.

Perhaps those people in Tevinter which hunt down the Silent Grove wanted the dragons for their own, using their power for whatever magic they pleased or seeking to end the dragons to protect the Veil and stop whatever the dragon's relation with the world is.

EDIT: Eleni (talking statue) also references shadows in Witch Hunt. 

 "The prison is breached. I see the encroaching darkness. The... the shadow will consume all..." 

She also references something else, I think it's in the original game and not Witch Hunt:

"Weep not for me, child. Stone they made me and stone I am, eternal and unfeeling. And thus shall I endure 'til the Maker returns to light their fires again." 

Who's fires will be lit? Could it be the return of magic throughout Thedas?

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 28 juillet 2012 - 12:59 .

[R2s Muse]

Ah, great finds, Dave! I hadn't thought about the elves and how that would fit in. I'll have to go back and read some of that.

I totally think the dragons are the key, somehow, and I think they could be harbingers of the magic coming back. Harbingers or... even the source of the magic...? Hmm.

I find it particularly curious that the Chant of Light talks about how horrible and evil the Old Gods are any chance it gets. But in one spot, notably recanted from the official Chant, it talks about how the Old Gods are the Maker's first children... like the spirts, demons, whatever that live in the Fade. This suggests to me two things. That the Old Gods are indeed linked to magic, the Fade and who lives there. And, that the Chantry for some reason doesn't want you to know about it/believe it. This reticence perhaps also being linked to their somewhat suspect story about the Golden City.

One question I had:

Dave of Canada wrote...

This ties in with Sandal's prophecy because it only occurs if you've done the Dark Ritual--perserving the soul of an Old God, a dragon.

Is this so? I thought it was merely dumb luck that the line fired, since it's like a one in a hundred chance or something like that. Given it's slim chance of happening in the first place... and the general screwiness of the import flags, I guess I would find this very surprising. Did someone confirm that?

 "The prison is breached. I see the encroaching darkness. The... the shadow will consume all..."

"Weep not for me, child. Stone they made me and stone I am, eternal and unfeeling. And thus shall I endure 'til the Maker returns to light their fires again." 

Who's fires will be lit? Could it be the return of magic throughout Thedas?

Man, I also forgot about that crazy talking statue. Talking about those shadows again. Hmm, you know, the purpose of lighting a fire is often to drive back the shadows. OH MAN... could all this augur the return of the Maker's gaze to humanity?? I wonder how he's still feeling about all that Andraste stuff... *gulp*

LOL, it could be "the biggest interdimensional cross-rip since the Tunguska blast of 1909."

[dragonflight288]

"The prison is breached. I see the encroaching darkness. The... the shadow will consume all..."

"Weep not for me, child. Stone they made me and stone I am, eternal and unfeeling. And thus shall I endure 'til the Maker returns to light their fires again."

Or you can quote Jowan.

Jowan said

Cryptic rubbish, it could mean anything. Look, I can do it too! 'The sun grows dark but lo, here comes the dawn!

[R2s Muse]

dragonflight288 wrote...

"The prison is breached. I see the encroaching darkness. The... the shadow will consume all..."

"Weep not for me, child. Stone they made me and stone I am, eternal and unfeeling. And thus shall I endure 'til the Maker returns to light their fires again."

Or you can quote Jowan.

Jowan said

Cryptic rubbish, it could mean anything. Look, I can do it too! 'The sun grows dark but lo, here comes the dawn!

LOL True. But then, Jowan isn't a DA writer...

[TEWR]

It certainly is interesting how the Chantry doesn't really bother to authorize Veil-repairing missions by both Templars and Mages.

See Kirkwall, Ferelden, and.... just about anywhere.

Hard to believe they're necessary if they not only perpetuate such a danger, but also ignore it.

R2s Muse wrote...

But in one spot, notably recanted from the official Chant, it talks about how the Old Gods are the Maker's first children...

Wait... what? Where? What is it exactly? Because I remember a Gaider quote saying the Old Gods were neither created nor Creators -- that they existed outside the purview of the Maker's control.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 28 juillet 2012 - 11:46 .

[The Hierophant]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

It certainly is interesting how the Chantry doesn't really bother to authorize Veil-repairing missions by both Templars and Mages.

See Kirkwall, Ferelden, and.... just about anywhere.

Hard to believe they're necessary if they not only perpetuate such a danger, but also ignore it.

R2s Muse wrote...

But in one spot, notably recanted from the official Chant, it talks about how the Old Gods are the Maker's first children...

Wait... what? Where? What is it exactly? Because I remember a Gaider quote saying the Old Gods were neither created nor Creators -- that they existed outside the purview of the Maker's control.

Meh, the Chantry also said that the magisters of Tevinter turned the Golden City black, which conflicts with Corypheus' statement of it being that way when they got there.

[R2s Muse]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

But in one spot, notably recanted from the official Chant, it talks about how the Old Gods are the Maker's first children...

Wait... what? Where? What is it exactly? Because I remember a Gaider quote saying the Old Gods were neither created nor Creators -- that they existed outside the purview of the Maker's control.

I mentioned it in my first post. Canticle of Silence, which is quoted in the Calling:

Silence 3

The Old Gods will call to you,
From their ancient prisons they will sing.
Dragons with wicked eyes and wicked hearts,
On blacken'd wings does deceit take flight,
The first of My children, lost to night.

-Silence 3:6, Dissonant Verse (struck from the canonical Chant)


So, who knows. I've taken it to mean that the Old Gods are "Dragons with wicked eyes" and are "the first of [the Maker's] children." Of course, given that it's "verse" there are also likely more interpretations. For example, maybe the children are the ones being deceived by these dragons, i.e the Tevinter magisters, but that doesn't follow since humans are the second children, not the first. 

Would you happen to recall where DG said this? I'd love more info on the Old Gods. Indeed, they always seem to be autonomous from the Maker and his kingdom, so this calls that into question. Heh, maybe that's why it's Dissonant.

EDIT: I think I found it.

DG  on "The Chantry, the Maker, the Old Gods: questions"

David Gaider wrote...

The cult of the Old Gods (I don't call it "the Tevinter religion" mainly because that, to me, speaks of the Imperial Chantry -- which is based in today's Tevinter Imperium) didn't contradict the existence of the Maker. Quite the opposite. The people of ancient Tevinter were aware of the existence of the Golden City and ascribed to "the Maker" (though this Creator was not called this until the appearance of the Chantry) the creation of the world. The Old Gods were not creators, though they were supposedly also not created. The Old Gods were outside of the Creator's Plan and showed up to whisper to mankind and teach them magic. According to the Chantry, they turned mankind away from their regard for a remote Creator (who ruled remotely and never interacted with his own creations) and that this is what made the Creator abandon the Golden City... though there is argument that the cult believed the Creator had abandoned it long before and that they were adrift, rescued by the Old Gods. Modern sages say that this is attempt to explain the hardships that the early human civilizations faced, and not evidence of the Maker actually being absent.

So when Andraste showed up much, much later, she was advocating a return to the "rightful" worship of the Maker... it was not a belief that came out of nowhere.

...

The modern Chantry, however, does say that all these other gods are false. It doesn't say they never existed (though the elven legends are dismissed as just that, for the most part, but that's a carry-over of Imperial belief), but merely suggests that the Maker was long ago forgotten and that He is the only god that is worthy of true worship. The fact that His creations turned away from Him is shameful, and it is only by proving our worth to Him once again that the world will become the paradise He intended.

Also, in a later post:

David Gaider wrote...

Smitridel wrote...
So..they co-existed with the Maker?
Wouldn't that make them independent of the Maker's plan and thus his equals in terms of "godhood"?
If so, who predates whom?

That's a good question.

Plus,
if magic originates from the Old Gods, how come the Chantry's version
put's the magic origins in the Maker's hands (if I'm not mistaken) ?

The Old Gods taught magic to humanity. They didn't create magic.

The Old Gods were not creators, though they were supposedly also not created.
Interesting. To me, the operative word here is supposedly.

Modifié par R2s Muse, 29 juillet 2012 - 01:39 .

[dragonflight288]

R2s Muse wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

But in one spot, notably recanted from the official Chant, it talks about how the Old Gods are the Maker's first children...

Wait... what? Where? What is it exactly? Because I remember a Gaider quote saying the Old Gods were neither created nor Creators -- that they existed outside the purview of the Maker's control.

I mentioned it in my first post. Canticle of Silence, which is quoted in the Calling:

Silence 3

The Old Gods will call to you,
From their ancient prisons they will sing.
Dragons with wicked eyes and wicked hearts,
On blacken'd wings does deceit take flight,
The first of My children, lost to night.

-Silence 3:6, Dissonant Verse (struck from the canonical Chant)


So, who knows. I've taken it to mean that the Old Gods are "Dragons with wicked eyes" and are "the first of [the Maker's] children." Of course, given that it's "verse" there are also likely more interpretations. For example, maybe the children are the ones being deceived by these dragons, i.e the Tevinter magisters, but that doesn't follow since humans are the second children, not the first. 

Would you happen to recall where DG said this? I'd love more info on the Old Gods. Indeed, they always seem to be autonomous from the Maker and his kingdom, so this calls that into question. Heh, maybe that's why it's Dissonant.

EDIT: I think I found it.

DG  on "The Chantry, the Maker, the Old Gods: questions"

David Gaider wrote...

The cult of the Old Gods (I don't call it "the Tevinter religion" mainly because that, to me, speaks of the Imperial Chantry -- which is based in today's Tevinter Imperium) didn't contradict the existence of the Maker. Quite the opposite. The people of ancient Tevinter were aware of the existence of the Golden City and ascribed to "the Maker" (though this Creator was not called this until the appearance of the Chantry) the creation of the world. The Old Gods were not creators, though they were supposedly also not created. The Old Gods were outside of the Creator's Plan and showed up to whisper to mankind and teach them magic. According to the Chantry, they turned mankind away from their regard for a remote Creator (who ruled remotely and never interacted with his own creations) and that this is what made the Creator abandon the Golden City... though there is argument that the cult believed the Creator had abandoned it long before and that they were adrift, rescued by the Old Gods. Modern sages say that this is attempt to explain the hardships that the early human civilizations faced, and not evidence of the Maker actually being absent.

So when Andraste showed up much, much later, she was advocating a return to the "rightful" worship of the Maker... it was not a belief that came out of nowhere.

...

The modern Chantry, however, does say that all these other gods are false. It doesn't say they never existed (though the elven legends are dismissed as just that, for the most part, but that's a carry-over of Imperial belief), but merely suggests that the Maker was long ago forgotten and that He is the only god that is worthy of true worship. The fact that His creations turned away from Him is shameful, and it is only by proving our worth to Him once again that the world will become the paradise He intended.

Also, in a later post:

David Gaider wrote...

Smitridel wrote...
So..they co-existed with the Maker?
Wouldn't that make them independent of the Maker's plan and thus his equals in terms of "godhood"?
If so, who predates whom?

That's a good question.

Plus,
if magic originates from the Old Gods, how come the Chantry's version
put's the magic origins in the Maker's hands (if I'm not mistaken) ?

The Old Gods taught magic to humanity. They didn't create magic.

The Old Gods were not creators, though they were supposedly also not created.
Interesting. To me, the operative word here is supposedly.

Hmmm. Very compelling argument. May be proven true or false in the next game. 

[Blacklash93]

The Veil being destroyed for all time and everyone having magic would be the ideal world for mages. No one is advantaged or disadvantaged and demons become predators as natural as any other. The Mage vs. Templar conflict would be obsolete.

"Weep not for me, child. Stone they made me and stone I am, eternal and unfeeling. And thus shall I endure 'til the Maker returns to light their fires again."

Dragons? Fires? Alternate dimensions? Special bloodlines?

This is obviously refering to the dragonborn who will need to light the dragonfires in order to keep an evil god from the Fade from invading the reality.

[Urzon]

There is also the expanded Andraste OGB theory, that connects: the Maker, Andraste (and her revolt), OGBs, Old Gods, and possibly lyrium in there somewhere. What seems to connects them all is.... singing.

Chantry lore has told us that the Maker came to Andraste because of her singing. That it captivated him so, that he would have her rule all of creation by his side. She would not leave her people, so she begged the Maker to return and save his children. He then helped Andraste with her rebellion by bring his wrath to the Imperium.

Imprisoned Old Gods are also known for their singing, or their "Call". It call out to all that bear the Taint, and forces the darkspawn to obession in trying to get to it.

What im theorizing is that the OGBs are able to retain their Call/singing, and if it is true that the Old Gods were the Maker's first children; the Maker might return if he hears the uncorrupted singing of one. The Andraste OGB theory comes into play here.

"Each day she sang to the gods, asking them to help her people who remained slaves in Tevinter. The false gods of the mountains and the winds did not answer her, but the true god did."

If Andraste was able to keep Dumat's Call (if she was its OGB, of course), she might have been able to literally call the Maker back to Thedas. The Maker wanting to see one of his children again, and her very voice having magic onto itself.

There is now another possible OGB at play now. If Morrigan's child is able to retain it's Call, he might be able to call the Maker back to Thedas again. Andraste was able to persuade the Maker to take up her cause for freedom. What would happen if Morrigan's child thinks it's a good idea to take down the Veil, and asks the Maker to do so?


Oh, as for the lyrium part of the theory....

I'm guessing either the Maker or some other being imprisoned the Old Gods deep under the Deep Roads, so the lyrium's song would act as a blanketing effect and cancel out their singing.

... or something like that. I'm still working on that part.