42 réponses à ce sujet

[ZachNyeScienceGuy]

 Avenger


Damage Level I                  38.6
Damage Level X                  48.2

Single Clip DPS Level I 321.67
Single Clip DPS Level X 401.67

Pros: Small Reload time, Virtually unlimited range,no charge up time, instant hit scan, benefits from armor piercing, benifits from headshot multiplier, Weigh's less, can burst fire.

Cons Less accurate, less capacity, smaller mag size.

Particle Rifle
https://docs.google....mYjAzZWFkZjcxMA

Damage Level I                     17.2
Damage Level X                    21.4

Single Clip DPS Level I       229.33
Single Cilp DPS Level X     285.33

Pros: Very Accurate, Large mag, "Infinite" Capacity, 4x damage multiplier.

Cons: Heavy, Long reload time, charge up time, limited range, cant efectivly burst fire. Cannot reload while running moving in/out of cover, while being staggered.

Fine, I had no idea the partilce rifle had a x4 damage multiplier, this:docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc never said it with that in place the avenger is not better then the particle rife.

Still this gun really needs a buff.

Modifié par ZachNyeScienceGuy, 28 juillet 2012 - 09:06 .

[Zero132132]

What do you mean when you say "no benefits from armor piercing," and what evidence do you have regarding headshots? I don't have it, but I know headshots mattered in the SP campaign, and I've seen one with an armor piercing mod going through a guardian's shield in the MP. You should also set the DPS to reflect the possibility of variation, so it should be 229.33 to 917.32 at level I and 285.33 to 1141.32 at level X. Otherwise, you mention the charge up time as a problem without giving any nod at all to the benefit that charge up time provides.

[EvoSigma]

Well, this proves it. One should be coming next week but I wouldn't get my hopes up. How they could make this weapon managable in the league of ultra rare assault rifles is unknown to me.

[ProfGast]

Arguments may also say that your clip dps is completely inaccurate due to the 4x modifier on particle rifle after it uses 50 rounds. This means your damage per clip is abysmally off, and your'e not even accounting for auto clip recharge, which is how your'e supposed to use the bleedin' thing. NOT empty it and then recharge. Ever play ME1? Never empty a gun unless you have no other choice (or if your'e using HE ammo and 2 rails on a sniper rifle)

Modifié par ProfGast, 28 juillet 2012 - 08:36 .

[ZachNyeScienceGuy]

Zero132132 wrote...

What do you mean when you say "no benefits from armor piercing," and what evidence do you have regarding headshots? I don't have it, but I know headshots mattered in the SP campaign, and I've seen one with an armor piercing mod going through a guardian's shield in the MP. You should also set the DPS to reflect the possibility of variation, so it should be 229.33 to 917.32 at level I and 285.33 to 1141.32 at level X. Otherwise, you mention the charge up time as a problem without giving any nod at all to the benefit that charge up time provides.

docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc

Here is my scource of info, it states there that it doesn't benifit from Ap or headshots

[davidman92]

The Particle Rifle does more like 1100 DPS after the first 50 rounds. It's still not a great weapon, but it's better than the Avenger.

Modifié par davidman92, 28 juillet 2012 - 08:36 .

[soultaker65]

The stats on the Particle Rifle on wrong if you use it once you can tell that it is way more powerful then the Avenger

[Black Phantom]

I can melt a Gold Atlas's armor with the Particle Rifle, (AP mod, and extended clip) a rail amp, and Incendiary ammo IV. with one clip.

I'd like to see the Avenger do that.

[ZachNyeScienceGuy]

ProfGast wrote...

Arguments may also say that your clip dps is completely inaccurate due to the 4x modifier on particle rifle after it uses 50 rounds. This means your damage per clip is abysmally off, and your'e not even accounting for auto clip recharge, which is how your'e supposed to use the bleedin' thing. NOT empty it and then recharge. Ever play ME1? Never empty a gun unless you have no other choice (or if your'e using HE ammo and 2 rails on a sniper rifle)

Still, with the time it takes for the magazine to fill back up even if you didn't empty the clp, you could've reloaded the avenger twice.

[JB27]

I actually use the Avenger quite a bit. Granted, it's leveled all the way, but it works pretty well with Vanguards.

[Black Phantom]

davidman92 wrote...

The Particle Rifle does more like 1100 DPS after the first 50 rounds. It's still not a great weapon, but it's better than the Avenger.

This.

OP blatantly disregarded the 4x damage modifier, which is actually the point of using the gun in the first place. I'm really hoping this is just an elaborate troll, but it's probably not. This wouldn't be the first "balance" thread to post wrong DPS calculations, or unrealistic scenarios to strengthen the argument in the OP.

[Black Phantom]

ZachNyeScienceGuy wrote...

ProfGast wrote...

Arguments may also say that your clip dps is completely inaccurate due to the 4x modifier on particle rifle after it uses 50 rounds. This means your damage per clip is abysmally off, and your'e not even accounting for auto clip recharge, which is how your'e supposed to use the bleedin' thing. NOT empty it and then recharge. Ever play ME1? Never empty a gun unless you have no other choice (or if your'e using HE ammo and 2 rails on a sniper rifle)

Still, with the time it takes for the magazine to fill back up even if you didn't empty the clp, you could've reloaded the avenger twice.

I can fire a Proximity Mine or similar debuff and reload my gun simultaneously due to the lack of a reload animation.

Particle Rifle: 2
Avenger: 0

[ZachNyeScienceGuy]

Ashen Earth wrote...

davidman92 wrote...

The Particle Rifle does more like 1100 DPS after the first 50 rounds. It's still not a great weapon, but it's better than the Avenger.

This.

OP blatantly disregarded the 4x damage modifier, which is actually the point of using the gun in the first place. I'm really hoping this is just an elaborate troll, but it's probably not. This wouldn't be the first "balance" thread to post wrong DPS calculations, or unrealistic scenarios to strengthen the argument in the OP.

Fine, I'm wrong My scource of info never stated that it had a 4x damage multiplier though.

[soultaker65]

ZachNyeScienceGuy wrote...

ProfGast wrote...

Arguments may also say that your clip dps is completely inaccurate due to the 4x modifier on particle rifle after it uses 50 rounds. This means your damage per clip is abysmally off, and your'e not even accounting for auto clip recharge, which is how your'e supposed to use the bleedin' thing. NOT empty it and then recharge. Ever play ME1? Never empty a gun unless you have no other choice (or if your'e using HE ammo and 2 rails on a sniper rifle)

Still, with the time it takes for the magazine to fill back up even if you didn't empty the clp, you could've reloaded the avenger twice.

First no you can't empty the Avengers clip twice before the Particle Rifle reloads.
Second if it does that with you your doing something wrong.

[Black Phantom]

ZachNyeScienceGuy wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

davidman92 wrote...

The Particle Rifle does more like 1100 DPS after the first 50 rounds. It's still not a great weapon, but it's better than the Avenger.

This.

OP blatantly disregarded the 4x damage modifier, which is actually the point of using the gun in the first place. I'm really hoping this is just an elaborate troll, but it's probably not. This wouldn't be the first "balance" thread to post wrong DPS calculations, or unrealistic scenarios to strengthen the argument in the OP.

Fine, I'm wrong My scource of info never stated that it had a 4x damage multiplier though.

You should update the OP with the right information, or to let everyone know your previous assessment was horribly wrong. With the damage modifier, the Particle Rifle does DPS on par with the Harrier.

[Arppis]

YES Avenger DOES need a buff... Not that pesky Particle Rifle.

[ZachNyeScienceGuy]

Ashen Earth wrote...

ZachNyeScienceGuy wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

davidman92 wrote...

The Particle Rifle does more like 1100 DPS after the first 50 rounds. It's still not a great weapon, but it's better than the Avenger.

This.

OP blatantly disregarded the 4x damage modifier, which is actually the point of using the gun in the first place. I'm really hoping this is just an elaborate troll, but it's probably not. This wouldn't be the first "balance" thread to post wrong DPS calculations, or unrealistic scenarios to strengthen the argument in the OP.

Fine, I'm wrong My scource of info never stated that it had a 4x damage multiplier though.

You should update the OP with the right information, or to let everyone know your previous assessment was horribly wrong. With the damage modifier, the Particle Rifle does DPS on par with the Harrier.

Already did.

[snk575]

1. the particle rifle does indeed benefit from armor piercing and headshots (from personal experience).
2. it gets a 4x damage bonus once you go through 50 rounds or so.
3. while,unlike the avenger, it does have a limited range, you dont usually need to be shooting at something that far away anyway.
from personal experience, i would have to say that the particle rifle is far superior to the Avenger

just my opinion though...

[soldo9149]

It actually does say it had a x4 multiplier, look at Prothean Damage Modifier (4) at the bottem of the list. I would still compare this gun to the avenger because it takes the first 50 rounds to get the x4 bonus, then its only x4 for as long as you dont get interrupted, staggered, into cover, grabbed, or to you stop firing or run out of ammo. Not to mention its range is not good compared to other AR's since it has limited range and even if you use tricks like Adrenalin Rush to speed up the reload animation it still has to fill up the clip which does take time.

[ll Ak Attack ll]

Whoever says this gun doesn't benefit from AP or headshots either hasn't used this gun or hasn't used this gun.

[ZachNyeScienceGuy]

soldo9149 wrote...

It actually does say it had a x4 multiplier, look at Prothean Damage Modifier (4) at the bottem of the list. I would still compare this gun to the avenger because it takes the first 50 rounds to get the x4 bonus, then its only x4 for as long as you dont get interrupted, staggered, into cover, grabbed, or to you stop firing or run out of ammo. Not to mention its range is not good compared to other AR's since it has limited range and even if you use tricks like Adrenalin Rush to speed up the reload animation it still has to fill up the clip which does take time.

I thought that multipier was only on protheans, and the AR trick doesn't work when your're firing, ive tested but yes it helps with the reload animation.

Modifié par ZachNyeScienceGuy, 28 juillet 2012 - 09:05 .

[Black Phantom]

ZachNyeScienceGuy wrote...

soldo9149 wrote...

It actually does say it had a x4 multiplier, look at Prothean Damage Modifier (4) at the bottem of the list. I would still compare this gun to the avenger because it takes the first 50 rounds to get the x4 bonus, then its only x4 for as long as you dont get interrupted, staggered, into cover, grabbed, or to you stop firing or run out of ammo. Not to mention its range is not good compared to other AR's since it has limited range and even if you use tricks like Adrenalin Rush to speed up the reload animation it still has to fill up the clip which does take time.

I thought that multipier was only on protheans, and the AR trick doesn't work when your're firing, ive tested.

Because we have Protheans in MP now.

OP, cut your losses while you're ahead, and stop embarassing yourself. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

[Zero132132]

Nobody's saying you're wrong, OP, at least on the point that the Particle Rifle could use a buff. They built the base damage around the 4x multiplier, and it takes a fair amount of time to work to that. Even at 4x, it does less damage than the Harrier, and to get there, you have to stick out of cover for longer than most classes comfortably can. It also resets if you get stunned at all. Basically, on anything except a Kroguard or a Destroyer, you actually need a bit of luck to even get it to the point where it does damage comparable to other good ARs, and on these classes, there are almost always going to be more effective options.

A lot of nerfers (yeah, I'm using the term fo the pro-balance crowd in general now, don't hate) to remove the charge-up and give it a better DPS, essentially eliminating what's interesting and unique about the weapon. Personally, I think they should just decrease the charge-up time and boost the damage a tiny bit. They're trying to balance around infinite ammo, but that's barely a benefit with the number of ammo boxes around.

[fatmancory]

The fact that this gun is getting compared at all to the avenger proves it needs a buff.

[WiqidBritt]

the doc does mention it, actually, at the bottom of the AR stats under "Prothean Damage Modifier"